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Old 19th April 2021, 12:15 PM   #241
Steve001
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
How so?

Has the Department of Defense expressed any doubts over the mundane explanations? Has it offered any new details which contradict the mundane explanations? Doesn't appear so.

So, what has become a mystery?
The DoD expressed it this way according to the article: "are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects." I have no vested interest what the answers turn out to be, just that there is an answer.
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:16 PM   #242
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
With this article it's back to being a mystery
It was a mystery before this article, too. Just not a very significant one.

Now, if the DOD had said that they'd ruled out bokeh, and had ruled out any kind of conventional aircraft, that would be interesting.

What do you think is interesting about this video?
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:23 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
The DoD expressed it this way according to the article: "are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects." I have no vested interest what the answers turn out to be, just that there is an answer.
There's always an answer. We won't always bother to find it, though. What is it about this story that you think is interesting?
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:25 PM   #244
Steve001
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What is it about this video that sparks your interest? What questions, if any, would you like us to consider when we watch this video?
Simply, what am I looking at? As for what other members think that's up to them. As I said in my second post, if members care to argue over it again, then have at it.

Last edited by Steve001; 19th April 2021 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:37 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Simply, what am I looking at? As for what other members think that's up to them. As I said in my second post, if members care to argue over it again, then have at it.
What don't you like about "you're probably looking at bokeh of an airliner"?
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Old 19th April 2021, 12:47 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
Simply, what am I looking at? As for what other members think that's up to them. As I said in my second post, if members care to argue over it again, then have at it.
You are looking at a plane, a plane and a balloon. You seemed happy enough with this answer last year. Why are you now doubting?
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Old 19th April 2021, 01:47 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
You are looking at a plane, a plane and a balloon. You seemed happy enough with this answer last year. Why are you now doubting?
You're right. But like any scientist does, I too am allowed to reconsider new evidence or potentially new evidence. Is there a problem with that approach? Or should I take the approach I often see here, that once dismissed, forever dismissed?

Last edited by Steve001; 19th April 2021 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 19th April 2021, 01:59 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
You're right. But like any scientist does, I too am allowed to reconsider new evidence or potentially new evidence. Is there a problem with that approach? Or should I take the approach I often see here, that once dismissed, forever dismissed?
What new evidence?
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Old 19th April 2021, 02:01 PM   #249
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^^^
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Old 19th April 2021, 03:26 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
What new evidence?
I did not write there was new evidence. I wrote new evidence or potentially new evidence. That was a generalized statement. As for whether there is new evidence on the nature of UAP's, that remains to be seen come June when the DoD reports to Congress.
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Old 19th April 2021, 03:37 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I did not write there was new evidence.
The question was, why are you now doubting answers you had accepted last year?

Your answer was, "like any scientist does, I too am allowed to reconsider new evidence or potentially new evidence."

So if you have no new evidence, why are you now reconsidering answers you had previously accepted?

Quote:
I wrote new evidence or potentially new evidence. That was a generalized statement. As for whether there is new evidence on the nature of UAP's, that remains to be seen come June when the DoD reports to Congress.
I'm predicting right now that -

- The actual DOD report will be a nothingburger. It's going to boil down to: "We see a lot of stuff. Most of it isn't worth looking into. Most of the stuff that is worth looking into is easily explained. Every so often we look into something but there's not enough data to reach a conclusion. If we thought we were dealing with an unidentified threat, we would have told you."

- The media will try to spin it as a sensationalist story about the DOD taking UFOs seriously, or implying that maybe aliens are real, or some other shenanigans.
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Old 19th April 2021, 06:01 PM   #252
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Also, and this is critically important, even in those very few examples where there is insufficient information to determine what it is, that doesn't mean that there is sufficient information to conclude that it is an alien spacecraft.
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Old 19th April 2021, 06:48 PM   #253
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Once you accept that birds and airplanes don't always provide enough data for identification, this whole UFO business seems very silly.
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Old 19th April 2021, 06:51 PM   #254
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Also, consider this: The US Navy seems to be hitting a low point in training, morale, readiness, and leadership. Any UFO footage coming from that source right now is more likely to be incompetence or carelessness, than anything actually interesting.
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Old 19th April 2021, 07:09 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
I did not write there was new evidence. I wrote new evidence or potentially new evidence. That was a generalized statement.
And a pretty worthless statement it is. Once again the DoD has confirmed that the videos are theirs, and that is all. Did anyone think they weren't?

Quote:
I have no vested interest what the answers turn out to be, just that there is an answer.
Yeah right.

Quote:
As for whether there is new evidence on the nature of UAP's, that remains to be seen come June when the DoD reports to Congress.
If we are lucky an explanation for these particular 'unidentified aerial phenomena' will be found. But that won't tell us much about their 'nature' because there are ('potentially') infinite varieties of them (all with mundane explanations). Next time it will be something different, but those with 'no vested interest' will once again bleat about 'potential' new evidence of its 'nature' as if there is something uniquely mysterious about it.
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Old 19th April 2021, 08:32 PM   #256
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Anybody here ever had what they surmise to be a close encounter of the subject at hand?
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Old 20th April 2021, 09:57 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Anybody here ever had what they surmise to be a close encounter of the subject at hand?
I've never even seen a drone in the wild, so to speak.

A few years back, my employer did a big group photo of the division, part of a big celebration day for hitting our targets. They had a drone to take some aerial shots of all of our shiny happy smiling faces.

I'm pretty sure that's the only time I've seen one live.
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Old 20th April 2021, 12:40 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
The DoD expressed it this way according to the article: "are indeed legitimate images of unexplained objects." I have no vested interest what the answers turn out to be, just that there is an answer.
It was CNN which expressed it the way you quoted, not the DoD.

The DOD said photos and videos of various unidentified flying objects were taken by Navy personnel.

So I still wonder what you meant by saying this article causes something which I infer was not a mystery to go "back to being a mystery".
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Old 20th April 2021, 03:44 PM   #259
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A potentially worthwhile podcast with Fraser Cain conversing with Mick West. Mick runs the site "Metabunk.
Mick West Debunking UFO's.
https://youtu.be/lsMomLDKIz4
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Old 21st April 2021, 10:29 AM   #260
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LOL.
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Old 21st April 2021, 12:02 PM   #261
Steve001
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
LOL.
What struck your funnybone?
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Old 21st April 2021, 12:48 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
What struck your funnybone?
Pretty much everything. "Potentially worthwhile" is meaningless weasel words. Instead of telling us what you found worthwhile, you tell us... nothing.

Notably, you don't tell us whether Mick's debunking actually covers any ground not already familiar to us - or at least to you.

You don't even provide a timestamp for whatever bits you found interesting. Or "potentially" interesting.

Would you prefer "haha oh wow"?
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Old 21st April 2021, 02:37 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty much everything. "Potentially worthwhile" is meaningless weasel words. Instead of telling us what you found worthwhile, you tell us... nothing.

Notably, you don't tell us whether Mick's debunking actually covers any ground not already familiar to us - or at least to you.

You don't even provide a timestamp for whatever bits you found interesting. Or "potentially" interesting.

Would you prefer "haha oh wow"?
It surprised me not the least bit you did not watch the vid, even just a small portion. Get this through your head; I wasn't making any attempt to change anyone's mind including yours. Nor was I insinuating my position. I posted for enjoyment.
I also humbly apologise for not meeting your standard of precise acceptable responses to your questions. As for what I would prefer reminds me what Phil Plait wrote several years ago. But, I feel that is an insurmountable part of your nature.

Last edited by Steve001; 21st April 2021 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 21st April 2021, 02:52 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
It surprised me not the least bit you did not watch the vid, even just a small portion. Get this through your head; I wasn't making any attempt to change anyone's mind including yours. Nor was I insinuating my position. I posted for enjoyment.
I also humbly apologise for not meeting your standard of precise acceptable responses to your questions. As for what I would prefer reminds me what Phil Plait wrote several years ago. But, I feel that is an insurmountable part of your nature.
LOL.

You're the one vaguebooking about UFOs.
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Old 20th May 2021, 08:29 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
...
To be clear I do not believe whatever the Navy films show are alien spacecraft. Regardless...]
Why?

Or, HOW, can you continue to deny facts in evidence?

Is the definition of skeptic, now, "reality denier"...?
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Old 20th May 2021, 08:36 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Once you accept that birds and airplanes don't always provide enough data for identification, this whole UFO business seems very silly.
Astounded...

Right, naval aviators can't tell the difference between birds, airplanes, and UFO's.

If you watched the videos, listened to the radio chatter, and the testimony of the pilots thereafter one would be hard pressed to dismiss ALL of it as misidentification - birds, drones, or balloons.

These things were "under intelligent control and responsive."

That rules OUT all of the above.

AGAIN, I didn't know "skeptical" now means, "reality denier."
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Old 20th May 2021, 10:12 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Also, and this is critically important, even in those very few examples where there is insufficient information to determine what it is, that doesn't mean that there is sufficient information to conclude that it is an alien spacecraft.
This x 1,000.
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Old 20th May 2021, 10:59 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
These things were "under intelligent control and responsive."

That rules OUT all of the above.
It could rule them out if you could be certain it was not an erroneous impression. The weakest link in claims of objects which appear to perform impossible manoeuvres is the "appear to" bit.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:02 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
This x 1,000.
No no no.


You’re using the scarecrow fallacy...you aren’t allowed to invoke “aliens”...

What IS verified is that we have evidence of “better than US naval aircraft performing in response to our maneuvers, x 1000.”

=

ET’s exist

—-

ETA :

Ancient Astronauts...earlier humanoids who accomplished orbital flight...NOT alien...

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Old 20th May 2021, 11:05 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It could rule them out if you could be certain it was not an erroneous impression. The weakest link in claims of objects which appear to perform impossible manoeuvres is the "appear to" bit.
As opposed to “does not appear to”...?

OR, as opposed to absolute certainty?

We aren’t in laboratory conditions, after all.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:10 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
What IS verified is that we have evidence of “better than US naval aircraft performing in response to our maneuvers, x 1000.”

Or, in most cases, evidence misinterpreted as being better than US naval aircraft performing.

For example, the "Go Fast" video recently shown on 60 Minutes. It purports to show an object moving incredibly fast just above the surface of the ocean, but when examined more closely is found to actually show something much farther up in the air moving at the same speed as the wind, i.e. a balloon.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:21 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Or, in most cases, evidence misinterpreted as being better than US naval aircraft performing.

For example, the "Go Fast" video recently shown on 60 Minutes. It purports to show an object moving incredibly fast just above the surface of the ocean, but when examined more closely is found to actually show something much farther up in the air moving at the same speed as the wind, i.e. a balloon.
No no no. That is a ‘possible’ explanation for ONE part of ONE video. It isn’t THE explanation, nor does it cover the other video footage.

Think Macro Picture.

Would you like to address how these object went in and out of the water at over 10k knots?

Moreover, an unlikely explanation doesn’t not equal debunked...
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:31 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
No no no. That is a ‘possible’ explanation for ONE part of ONE video.
Possible is good. A possible mundane explanation seems more likely than an explanation requiring technology not known to exist.

Quote:
It isn’t THE explanation, nor does it cover the other video footage.

Think Macro Picture.

Would you like to address how these object went in and out of the water at over 10k knots?

Moreover, an unlikely explanation doesn’t not equal debunked...
The most likely explanation for an object seeming to dive in and out of the ocean at 10,000 knots will be one which does not involve that really happening.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:35 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Possible is good. A possible mundane explanation seems more likely than an explanation requiring technology not known to exist.



The most likely explanation for an object seeming to dive in and out of the ocean at 10,000 knots will be one which does not involve that really happening.
I think ‘skeptics’ do truth a disservice by speaking of THESE VIDEOS as if they aren’t what our military has FINALLY admitted they are.

When DOES something become “known” to you, as a skeptic?

What evidence would compel you to accept this fact?
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:37 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Think Macro Picture.
Seriously, I think that's the surest way to fool yourself into thinking there must be something uncanny going on. It's by nitpicking the details of what is actually known and not known, rather than standing back and being vague and imprecise, that you can see what might really be going on rather than telling yourself an appealing story about what might have been.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:39 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
I think ‘skeptics’ do truth a disservice by speaking of THESE VIDEOS as if they aren’t what our military has FINALLY admitted they are.
Would you like to quote verbatim what precisely the military has said these videos are?
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:42 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Seriously, I think that's the surest way to fool yourself into thinking there must be something uncanny going on. It's by nitpicking the details of what is actually known and not known, rather than standing back and being vague and imprecise, that you can see what might really be going on rather than telling yourself an appealing story about what might have been.
That’s not what I meant by Macro, but I accept my wording lacked precision.

WHAT I MEANT WAS:

Bigger picture in the totality of all the evidence collected herein. Our best pilots, ground and air recording equipment, and radar personnel...NOW ALONG WITH THE BRASS, all say - ET’s and superior technology.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:43 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Would you like to quote verbatim what precisely the military has said these videos are?
Nope.

Only that they have said they aren’t ours.
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Old 20th May 2021, 11:47 AM   #279
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ET’s aren’t aliens...

ET’s herein, and evidenced in other UFO sightings are “ancient earth astronauts.”

When you consider it took us, the United States of America, less than 100 years to go from the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, to Armstrong on the Moon...AND THAT we, Humans have been here, like this for at least a few ten thousand years...?

What is more likely again???

—-

If I were a prop comic, I’d begin the landslide of images that feature massive air strips in the deserts across the globe, Daniken-style.

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Old 20th May 2021, 11:48 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Nope.

Only that they have said they aren’t ours.
Your claim is that the DoD has "finally admitted" that some airborne objects are not theirs?
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