IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags ufos

Reply
Old 20th May 2021, 11:57 AM   #281
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
ET’s aren’t aliens...

ET’s herein, and evidenced in other UFO sightings are “ancient earth astronauts.”

When you consider it took us, the United States of America, less than 100 years to go from the Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk, to Armstrong on the Moon...AND THAT we, Humans have been here, like this for at least a few ten thousand years...?

What is more likely again???

—-

If I were a prop comic, I’d begin the landslide of images that feature massive air strips in the deserts across the globe, Daniken-style.
When you consider that the technology which the Wright brothers had at their disposal (fire, agriculture, writing, carpentry, weaving, metallurgy, fuels, lubricants, adhesives, electricity, internal combustion engine design, mathematics etc etc) was the accumulated fruits of thousands of years of endeavour by the human race, what makes you imagine the whole trail existed before current civilisation existed and somehow left no archaeological trace?

No. I reject your suggestion that this is in any way likely.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 12:06 PM   #282
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
When you consider that the technology which the Wright brothers had at their disposal (fire, agriculture, writing, carpentry, weaving, metallurgy, fuels, lubricants, adhesives, electricity, internal combustion engine design, mathematics etc etc) was the accumulated fruits of thousands of years of endeavour by the human race, what makes you imagine the whole trail existed before current civilisation existed and somehow left no archaeological trace?

No. I reject your suggestion that this is in any way likely.
Lol

I give you the clay fermenters of Gobleke Tepe...those of the 40+ gallon variety.

ANY beer or wine vintners here? They could offer similar testimony that such fermenters would have required industrial agriculture, such as that found in the rectangular acreage due South of GT.

—-

What’s that been dated to?

ETA:

There were over a dozen such in-ground units, that could not easily been cleaned and sanitized. Meaning they would likely have been in constant use, requiring about 40 lbs of grain per batch, every 21 days...

Not possible, on this scale, hunting and gathering wild bits.

Last edited by LordoftheWest; 20th May 2021 at 12:17 PM.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 12:25 PM   #283
Lithrael
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,159
That’s not a very convincing argument. You can get pretty industrial amounts of farming done with next to no technology. Trench irrigation and slab or axle milling plus decent manpower can get you a really long way if you’re sufficiently organized about it and have really good water and soil health resources.
Lithrael is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 12:27 PM   #284
Armitage72
Philosopher
 
Armitage72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 6,152
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Lol

I give you the clay fermenters of Gobleke Tepe...those of the 40+ gallon variety.

ANY beer or wine vintners here? They could offer similar testimony that such fermenters would have required industrial agriculture, such as that found in the rectangular acreage due South of GT.

—-

What’s that been dated to?

ETA:

There were over a dozen such in-ground units, that could not easily been cleaned and sanitized. Meaning they would likely have been in constant use, requiring about 40 lbs of grain per batch, every 21 days...

Not possible, on this scale, hunting and gathering wild bits.

They likely would have only been used for special feasts, not everyday brewing. Cleaning and preparation would have been part of the ritual.
From this article:

Quote:
Because grains require so much hard work to produce (collecting tiny, mostly inedible parts, separating grain from chaff, and grinding into flour), beer brewing would have been reserved for feasts with important cultural purposes.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 12:30 PM   #285
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Your claim is that the DoD has "finally admitted" that some airborne objects are not theirs?
Buddy, I’m not ‘claiming’ I saw something, sans proof.

Have you not yet subjected yourself to due diligence and actually reviewed the evidence at hand...?

Shutter the thought.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 12:35 PM   #286
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
They likely would have only been used for special feasts, not everyday brewing. Cleaning and preparation would have been part of the ritual.
From this article:
Objection: Speculation

Statement made without evidence. There were various sizes, not ONE ritualized central singular container. They were in homes, some, not sanctuaries. Described as breweries, not churches, in form and function. Also evidenced are massive rectangular fields due South -

https://imgur.com/gallery/fM9buJk
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:21 PM   #287
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Buddy, I’m not ‘claiming’ I saw something, sans proof.
You are claiming that you saw what the DoD had "finally admitted", sans the courtesy to quote whatever that was.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:24 PM   #288
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
They likely would have only been used for special feasts, not everyday brewing. Cleaning and preparation would have been part of the ritual...:
Form follows function.

If you are going to clean and use them ONCE or twice a year, they are moveable, jars, vases...not in ground units, in a line, of various sizes...

Again, I was hoping for insights from modern brewers or vintners. The art is still basically the same.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:33 PM   #289
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
That’s not a very convincing argument. You can get pretty industrial amounts of farming done with next to no technology. Trench irrigation and slab or axle milling plus decent manpower can get you a really long way if you’re sufficiently organized about it and have really good water and soil health resources.
I did not invoke ‘technology’ only industrial sized food plots as evidence of stabilized agriculture. 12,500 years ago’ish, humans were no longer only hunting and gathering.

The breweries at GT, and their 40-gallon fermenters HAD access to hundreds of fields FULLY CAPABLE of keeping them going all year round.

Farmers not foragers...
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:35 PM   #290
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Lol

I give you the clay fermenters of Gobleke Tepe...those of the 40+ gallon variety.
...
What’s that been dated to?
It seems to date from after the invention of agriculture but before the invention of pottery. So what's your point? Brewing is one of the very oldest technologies humans devised. It doesn't enable powered flight. Are you suggesting the ancient Wright brothers stepped out of their hut one morning and brewed an aircraft?

The Flintstones was not a documentary.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:49 PM   #291
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It seems to date from after the invention of agriculture but before the invention of pottery. So what's your point? Brewing is one of the very oldest technologies humans devised. It doesn't enable powered flight. Are you suggesting the ancient Wright brothers stepped out of their hut one morning and brewed an aircraft?

The Flintstones was not a documentary.
Oh dear...not sure what you did there, but forgive me for causing such confusion!

The size of the fields were not evidenced...150 acres EACH.

Look at the sheer number of them, within 5 miles of GT’s fermenters.

Functionally, these were modern humans, living in a large stable *cough* City. Homo Sapien Sapien. If you believe alternative history blokes, then you might accept that the Sphinx is about the same age, and that we were once also globally connected.

That these humans mastered flight is evidenced in ancient airstrips.

In my own county, on the original land deed map, drawn and issued by the State, in “1889” features a huge “X” on the area where today exists an airport....the modern main runway is N&S...but there is an older “X” one still evident.

How did these map makers know to put the airstrip, that was not even required by the invention yet, where it is?

*I need to go take that picture. No idea why I didn’t iPhone that...
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 01:55 PM   #292
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
That these humans mastered flight is evidenced in ancient airstrips.
Strips of land which someone chooses to interpret as airfields is not evidence that a particular civilization had the means to build aircraft.

They hadn't even invented pottery yet. Which technologies did they have which they could have repurposed to build aircraft?
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 02:08 PM   #293
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,175
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Buddy, I’m not ‘claiming’ I saw something, sans proof.

Have you not yet subjected yourself to due diligence and actually reviewed the evidence at hand...?

Shutter the thought.
@Mr Lord (I may call you that, may I?). I've done you the favour of reading your few posts in this thread. How about you do us the favour of reading the entire thread from first post and checking the links provided?

I have been reviewing the "evidence at hand" for the last 60 years or so from at least Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects. These latest "revelations" are not convincing.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 02:37 PM   #294
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Strips of land which someone chooses to interpret as airfields is not evidence that a particular civilization had the means to build aircraft.

They hadn't even invented pottery yet. Which technologies did they have which they could have repurposed to build aircraft?
No...they function as MODERN airports...

Large, straight, into the wind aligned 'clearings' capable of handling inbound aircraft IS NOT an airstrip...?

They hadn't invented pottery yet...?

"Pottery fragments found in a south China cave have been confirmed to be 20,000 years old, making them the oldest known pottery in the world, archaeologists say."
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 02:38 PM   #295
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
@Mr Lord (I may call you that, may I?). I've done you the favour of reading your few posts in this thread. How about you do us the favour of reading the entire thread from first post and checking the links provided?

I have been reviewing the "evidence at hand" for the last 60 years or so from at least Ruppelt's The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects. These latest "revelations" are not convincing.
What would be, sans an anal probe?
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 03:01 PM   #296
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
No...they function as MODERN airports...

Large, straight, into the wind aligned 'clearings' capable of handling inbound aircraft IS NOT an airstrip...?

They hadn't invented pottery yet...?

"Pottery fragments found in a south China cave have been confirmed to be 20,000 years old, making them the oldest known pottery in the world, archaeologists say."
Large straight clearings indicate the invention of fields. Not aeroplanes.

I repeat: which technologies did the occupants of Gobleki Tepe possess which they could have repurposed to build a functional aeroplane?

Look I'm not saying a technology can't be lost and rediscovered. The Romans knew how to make glass but that technology was lost in the dark ages. But the fact we know the Romans had glass is a clue that archaeology tends not to miss the bleedin' obvious. If there had been an industrial technological civilisation at Gobleki Tepe we would have evidence for the development of a whole wide range of technologies which eventually came together to permit the invention of flying craft. This evidence, you will note, is conspicuously lacking.

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 20th May 2021 at 03:03 PM.
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 04:03 PM   #297
Axxman300
Philosopher
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 5,446
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
No...they function as MODERN airports...

Large, straight, into the wind aligned 'clearings' capable of handling inbound aircraft IS NOT an airstrip...?

They hadn't invented pottery yet...?

"Pottery fragments found in a south China cave have been confirmed to be 20,000 years old, making them the oldest known pottery in the world, archaeologists say."
The problem is that modern airports function the way they do to accommodate multiple aircraft. Back then they would have needed two long landing strips and that's it.

The problems with this are these: There were no aircraft (alien or human) back then, and the lines served multiple functions from when to plant crops to where to find water during drought. These functions have been successfully tested.

The next question is IF they had aircraft why aren't there more prehistoric airfields? Why does the human DNA/RNA record from this time period not reflect ethnic diversity? Prehistoric or not, pilots like to party with the local female population
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 04:40 PM   #298
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 53,626
Where's the metallurgical residue? There must be huge manufacturing facilities in the archeological record, where they forged engines light enough to lift themselves off the ground, and strong enough to contain the forces necessary.

Airfields without the corresponding industrial plant are, quite simply, not airfields.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 04:47 PM   #299
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,414
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
These things were "under intelligent control and responsive."
How can this possibly be known?
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 05:18 PM   #300
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The problem is that modern airports function the way they do to accommodate multiple aircraft. Back then they would have needed two long landing strips and that's it.

The problems with this are these: There were no aircraft (alien or human) back then, and the lines served multiple functions from when to plant crops to where to find water during drought. These functions have been successfully tested.

The next question is IF they had aircraft why aren't there more prehistoric airfields? Why does the human DNA/RNA record from this time period not reflect ethnic diversity? Prehistoric or not, pilots like to party with the local female population
That they CAN be used as astronomical clocks does not discount their use as airfields.

Paintings, cave carvings, religious texts, and oral history ALL provide evidence that the same UFO's our navy is seeing even this very second are not 'new' but have been our skies since we could draw.

Pre-historic are modern ones, repurposed...some in the deserts have not been.

"Yes, supposedly the sons of god, saw daughters of men, had sex, then created demi-gods."

Maybe maybe not...
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 05:20 PM   #301
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
How can this possibly be known?
They chased, evaded, and were 'responsive' to being chased, evaded, and or "locked on."

It 'knew' when it was being engaged.

Fair enough?
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 05:25 PM   #302
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Where's the metallurgical residue? There must be huge manufacturing facilities in the archeological record, where they forged engines light enough to lift themselves off the ground, and strong enough to contain the forces necessary.

Airfields without the corresponding industrial plant are, quite simply, not airfields.
Well 4500 years ago, Krakatoa erupted in a major way...covering the entire earth, even the poles in a giant red wash tsunami. It created the Sahara, filled up the grand canyon and poured out across the plains.

Here's the ocean core sample off the west coast of Africa - https://imgur.com/gallery/SxHZk2n

Here's the tsunami map -
https://imgur.com/gallery/0Si7vsf

You can use Google Earth and the red wash scab follows the path above.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 05:44 PM   #303
Myriad
The Clarity Is Devastating
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 18,240
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Well 4500 years ago, Krakatoa erupted in a major way...covering the entire earth, even the poles in a giant red wash tsunami. It created the Sahara, filled up the grand canyon and poured out across the plains.

Here's the ocean core sample off the west coast of Africa - https://imgur.com/gallery/SxHZk2n

Here's the tsunami map -
https://imgur.com/gallery/0Si7vsf

You can use Google Earth and the red wash scab follows the path above.

All of which left the "airfield" intact enough to be findable.

So, where is the metallurgical residue from manufacturing aircraft?
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 06:12 PM   #304
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
All of which left the "airfield" intact enough to be findable.

So, where is the metallurgical residue from manufacturing aircraft?
People survived...dug up old stuff, re-inhabited old places.

Where are the diapers I wore as an infant?

"Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence, right?"

Or did that change?
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 06:17 PM   #305
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Where's the metallurgical residue? There must be huge manufacturing facilities in the archeological record, where they forged engines light enough to lift themselves off the ground, and strong enough to contain the forces necessary.

Airfields without the corresponding industrial plant are, quite simply, not airfields.
Destroyed in a series of global catastrophes...covered entirely by 20-200 feet of red clay and or sand.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 06:37 PM   #306
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,414
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
They chased, evaded, and were 'responsive' to being chased, evaded, and or "locked on."

It 'knew' when it was being engaged.

Fair enough?
I don't think this has been established beyond reasonable doubt. The recent videos certainly don't show what you're describing. They show smooth motion in a single direction, combined with a little camera shake.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 06:59 PM   #307
Myriad
The Clarity Is Devastating
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 18,240
Okay, here's my reaction to fanciful hypotheses like these.

"Wash your hands before you treat wounds."

That's good advice. It's easy to understand and easy to follow. It's easy to express; in the absence of a shared written language a few simple symbols would suffice. It would have been of great benefit for people throughout the millennia to receive that advice. It would have saved an enormous amount of suffering, and countless young lives. Anyone who treated wounds frequently, who even tried following that advice for a few days, would have been able to notice an improvement in the results. But no one knew it until the late 1860s, less than a century before I was born.

The surviving Children of the Law of One from the Atlantis Diaspora didn't tell us. The Rigelian Space Brothers didn't tell us. The Nephilim didn't tell us. The prophets of the Old Testament didn't tell us. Hippocrates didn't tell us. Apollo didn't tell us. The White Lodge Masters didn't tell us. The apostles of the New Testament didn't tell us. The Buddha didn't tell us. The ancient astronauts didn't tell us. Moroni's Golden Plates didn't tell us.

Not one of those exalted wise ancient beings managed to tell anyone, "wash your hands before you treat wounds." For millennium after millennium, until regular ignorant fallible human doctors discovered it for themselves. What that tells me is that even if those exalted wise ancient beings are all real, we are not one iota better off than if they weren't. They. Are. Utterly. Useless.

So let whoever-they-are fly around and show off. Who cares? If they couldn't or wouldn't tell us wash your hands before you treat wounds they can't or won't tell us anything of value. The world is and shall continue to be indistinguishable from one in which they're nothing but fairy tales.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 07:11 PM   #308
Armitage72
Philosopher
 
Armitage72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 6,152
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Paintings, cave carvings, religious texts, and oral history ALL provide evidence that the same UFO's our navy is seeing even this very second are not 'new' but have been our skies since we could draw.

In a recent issue of Skeptical Inquirer magazine, an author referred to this as the "Bangles Fallacy", named for the Bangles song "Walk Like an Egyptian" and the corresponding music video, which portrayed Egyptians as walking in the poses depicted in ancient artwork.
Making the assumption, with no supporting evidence, that ancient stories, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art were intended to be accurate representations of reality rather than fanciful works of imagination or highly stylized impressions of the mundane world.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 07:36 PM   #309
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 8,425
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Where's the metallurgical residue? There must be huge manufacturing facilities in the archeological record, where they forged engines light enough to lift themselves off the ground, and strong enough to contain the forces necessary.

Airfields without the corresponding industrial plant are, quite simply, not airfields.
Perhaps the "fermenters" were actually cooking up large batches of elastic compounds.
For the giant rubberband powered prop planes.
Any balsa forests nearby?
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 07:39 PM   #310
JimOfAllTrades
Muse
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
People survived...dug up old stuff, re-inhabited old places.

Where are the diapers I wore as an infant?

"Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence, right?"

Or did that change?
Actually absence of evidence can be evidence of absence if a hypothesis says we should expect some specific kind of evidence and that evidence is absent.

If runways that are essentially just big cleared paths survived, we would expect to see residual materials from manufacturing, maintenance, storage, and the aircraft themselves.

We don't see that, so that counts as evidence against the hypothesis that there were ancient aircraft.
JimOfAllTrades is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:22 PM   #311
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't think this has been established beyond reasonable doubt. The recent videos certainly don't show what you're describing. They show smooth motion in a single direction, combined with a little camera shake.
Reasonable doubt is a criminal bar, we use to imprison or punish citizens, as a government. The actual wording is beyond a reasonable doubt...NOT beyond ANY doubt...

Testimony from pilots and radar operators report this “intelligent response” as does the broader interactive history.

We didn’t capture it, and failed to shoot it down...so it is or was ‘better’ than our naval search and rescue...if it were a balloon...or drone.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:31 PM   #312
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by JimOfAllTrades View Post
Actually absence of evidence can be evidence of absence if a hypothesis says we should expect some specific kind of evidence and that evidence is absent.

If runways that are essentially just big cleared paths survived, we would expect to see residual materials from manufacturing, maintenance, storage, and the aircraft themselves.

We don't see that, so that counts as evidence against the hypothesis that there were ancient aircraft.
It isn’t absent...it is buried...under the red sand and clay layer...I theorize...

Do you understand the nature of a +200 ft tsunami...? Now imagine it busts loose all the ice dams, releasing ALL trapped ice into the oceans...

What would be left, of this flighted age?

Maybe stuff stationed on aircraft carriers...that were far out to sea?

Use the tsunami map, and Google Earth to look for and at this red clay wash...it is EVERYWHERE...it covered EVERY continent.

4500 years leaves a lot of time to recover, uncover, and rebuild...
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:42 PM   #313
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
In a recent issue of Skeptical Inquirer magazine, an author referred to this as the "Bangles Fallacy", named for the Bangles song "Walk Like an Egyptian" and the corresponding music video, which portrayed Egyptians as walking in the poses depicted in ancient artwork.
Making the assumption, with no supporting evidence, that ancient stories, paintings, sculptures, and other works of art were intended to be accurate representations of reality rather than fanciful works of imagination or highly stylized impressions of the mundane world.
So it is now a fallacy to say that things with similar descriptions and noted behaviors and origins (ET’s), found throughout the historical record in EVERY kind of media imaginable, including religious texts...exist, after our modern naval forces have tracked them, verifying ALL these myths...?

REALLY?

Maybe, that thinking is the fallacy.

I’m gonna call it the Dumbass Fallacy.

It is when someone ignores the consistent details found in every media type, that links UFO’s as EXtra-Terrestrially operated god-cars...

Maybe Ignorant-Ass Fallacy? Still needs work, but it is sound, for certain.
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:50 PM   #314
LordoftheWest
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Okay, here's my reaction to fanciful hypotheses like these.

"Wash your hands before you treat wounds."

That's good advice. It's easy to understand and easy to follow. It's easy to express; in the absence of a shared written language a few simple symbols would suffice. It would have been of great benefit for people throughout the millennia to receive that advice. It would have saved an enormous amount of suffering, and countless young lives. Anyone who treated wounds frequently, who even tried following that advice for a few days, would have been able to notice an improvement in the results. But no one knew it until the late 1860s, less than a century before I was born.

The surviving Children of the Law of One from the Atlantis Diaspora didn't tell us. The Rigelian Space Brothers didn't tell us. The Nephilim didn't tell us. The prophets of the Old Testament didn't tell us. Hippocrates didn't tell us. Apollo didn't tell us. The White Lodge Masters didn't tell us. The apostles of the New Testament didn't tell us. The Buddha didn't tell us. The ancient astronauts didn't tell us. Moroni's Golden Plates didn't tell us.

Not one of those exalted wise ancient beings managed to tell anyone, "wash your hands before you treat wounds." For millennium after millennium, until regular ignorant fallible human doctors discovered it for themselves. What that tells me is that even if those exalted wise ancient beings are all real, we are not one iota better off than if they weren't. They. Are. Utterly. Useless.

So let whoever-they-are fly around and show off. Who cares? If they couldn't or wouldn't tell us wash your hands before you treat wounds they can't or won't tell us anything of value. The world is and shall continue to be indistinguishable from one in which they're nothing but fairy tales.
Or, how about...

“EVERYTHING in moderation.”

Wash your hands...with WHAT? Soap? Alcohol? What kind of dirt, or potential infective agent are we talking about here?

How about “Boil old bandages before reuse?”

Oh, how about “Treat everyone how you’d like to be treated?”

Doesn’t THAT cover all the bases?

‘I’ would want you to wash YOUR hands before you touched my wound!

To be perfectly honest, I don’t “feel ya” here...you listed a bunch of stuff, and then complain that there weren’t wash your hands before surgery signs?

And that translates to no UFO’s HOW???
LordoftheWest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 09:02 PM   #315
JimOfAllTrades
Muse
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 788
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
It isn’t absent...it is buried...under the red sand and clay layer...I theorize...

Do you understand the nature of a +200 ft tsunami...? Now imagine it busts loose all the ice dams, releasing ALL trapped ice into the oceans...

What would be left, of this flighted age?

Maybe stuff stationed on aircraft carriers...that were far out to sea?

Use the tsunami map, and Google Earth to look for and at this red clay wash...it is EVERYWHERE...it covered EVERY continent.

4500 years leaves a lot of time to recover, uncover, and rebuild...
Any evidence for this hypothesis?

Some scraped ground is untouched after being buried under 20' of mud, but no harder materials survived?

And do the Chinese know that their culture was wiped out 4500 years ago by Krakatoa?
JimOfAllTrades is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 09:07 PM   #316
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 8,425
Where is this Krakatoa 4500 years ago stuff coming from?
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 09:08 PM   #317
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 8,425
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
It isn’t absent...it is buried...under the red sand and clay layer...I theorize...



Do you understand the nature of a +200 ft tsunami...? Now imagine it busts loose all the ice dams, releasing ALL trapped ice into the oceans...



What would be left, of this flighted age?



Maybe stuff stationed on aircraft carriers...that were far out to sea?



Use the tsunami map, and Google Earth to look for and at this red clay wash...it is EVERYWHERE...it covered EVERY continent.



4500 years leaves a lot of time to recover, uncover, and rebuild...
Sweet bebbe jeebus... next you'll tell us where to find Atlantis.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 09:16 PM   #318
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,414
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Do you understand the nature of a +200 ft tsunami...? Now imagine it busts loose all the ice dams, releasing ALL trapped ice into the oceans...
Ice dams?

I have a feeling that we're getting a peek behind the UFO screen here.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 09:35 PM   #319
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,414
Hey look - even Obama admits that there are aliens!

I’ve seen the saucers: Obama weighs in as US interest in UFOs rises

Quote:
“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here, is that there’s footage and records of objects in the skies, that we don’t know exactly what they are, we can’t explain how they moved, their trajectory,” Obama told CBS.

“They did not have an easily explainable pattern. And so, you know I think that people still take seriously trying to investigate and figure out what that is. But I have nothing to report to you today.”
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 03:00 AM   #320
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
 
Jack by the hedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 11,488
Originally Posted by LordoftheWest View Post
Well 4500 years ago, Krakatoa erupted in a major way...covering the entire earth, even the poles in a giant red wash tsunami. It created the Sahara, filled up the grand canyon and poured out across the plains.
Citation required.

What volume of "red wash" does your claim require in order to bury everything in clay? Where did the red clay appear from?

2500BC is more than absurdly late to claim to have "created" the Sahara desert. Your claimed megatsunami happens during the Egyptian period historians call the "old kingdom" and the Chinese period of the "five emperors". They appear not to have noticed, and just got on with building and inventing and other fun Egyptian and Chinese stuff. Any comment?
Jack by the hedge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:58 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.