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Tags impeachment , political predictions , political speculation , Trump impeachment

View Poll Results: How long will the impeachment trial last?
One hour or less 8 14.04%
One day or less 16 28.07%
One week or less 11 19.30%
One month or less. 15 26.32%
It'll still be going on Planet X in 2219. 7 12.28%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17th December 2019, 08:12 AM   #81
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I hope that Trump will become the first President to be impeached twice.

There is the current impeachment.

However, Trump has many other issues to deal which could result in future impeachment:

His immigrant family splitting policy,
His false charity work,
His false education work via his Trump University,
His payoff to Stormy Daniels and other women, and
His involvement with the Russians (this issue is still going on).
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:38 AM   #82
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I also have to amend/adjust my original prediction (which I still stand behind as a 'most probably ballpark figure)

As with everything about this man anything Trump has any control over will continue based on how long it's the most effective way to troll people.

Trump's impeachment will last as long as it keeps Trump's enemies; real or perceived, angry and flustered.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:44 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I also have to amend/adjust my original prediction (which I still stand behind as a 'most probably ballpark figure)

As with everything about this man anything Trump has any control over will continue based on how long it's the most effective way to troll people.

Trump's impeachment will last as long as it keeps Trump's enemies; real or perceived, angry and flustered.
This assumes that the Senate has a vested interest in playing it out the way Trump wants. The Senators, right and left, are going to have their own preferences. It's they, not Trump, who control the pace of the trial.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:45 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This assumes that the Senate has a vested interest in playing it out the way Trump wants. The Senators, right and left, are going to have their own preferences. It's they, not Trump, who control the pace of the trial.
Trump controls them, McConnell especially. Distinction without difference.
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:55 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Trump controls them, McConnell especially. Distinction without difference.
How? What's the mechanism by which Trump controls McConnell? Bribes? Blackmail? The ballot?
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Old 17th December 2019, 08:58 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How? What's the mechanism by which Trump controls McConnell? Bribes? Blackmail? The ballot?
Don't know, don't care, doesn't matter, not taking the conversation there.

McConnell has proven again and again he is incapable of standing up to Trump. He's openly admitted he's basically taking orders from Trump as to how the impeachment is going to go.
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Old 17th December 2019, 09:08 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How? What's the mechanism by which Trump controls McConnell? Bribes? Blackmail? The ballot?
Unknown. However it's clear that they're in lockstep.
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Old 17th December 2019, 09:16 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How? What's the mechanism by which Trump controls McConnell? Bribes? Blackmail? The ballot?
His wife's cabinet position with all the pork for Mitch's state that that entails.
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:06 PM   #89
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Evil Turtle is worried about his own job because his approval level has gotten pretty bad in his own state. However, he probably thinks that that's not because more people are more aware of how evil he is, but because he hasn't been evil enough.

Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I hope that Trump will become the first President to be impeached twice.

There is the current impeachment.

However, Trump has many other issues to deal which could result in future impeachment:

His immigrant family splitting policy,
His false charity work,
His false education work via his Trump University,
His payoff to Stormy Daniels and other women, and
His involvement with the Russians (this issue is still going on).
By impeaching on other stuff but not those, which they've been aware of longer, the controlling Democrats (primarily Pelosi) have already given all that other stuff the official "not impeachable offenses" stamp of approval.

And it's also either a massive tactical blunder or an outright tactical betrayal, depending on whether one explains Pelosi's history of constantly rolling over for the Republicans as incompetence or deliberate servitude. We know that the Republican establishment hates Trump and would like to have a way to get rid of him and stop his takeover of their party, but haven't seen a clear path to do so. What the Democrats should be doing is trying to find a way to help them with that (if they had any clue at all about the concept of strategizing instead of just walking straight ahead with no plan). And having more articles of impeachment would have helped, because it would have opened a path for the more scared Republicans in the Senate to vote no on most of of the articles but yes on just one and say "I was with him on most of this, and it's terrible that they did this to him on most counts, but there was just that one little thing that went too far". So naturally, of course, Pelosi went out of her way to make sure that that path would be unavailable to them.

Trump's going down in history as one of just a few impeached Presidents in American history, and his "opposition" is going down in history as the most useless, feckless excuse for an "opposition" in American history.

* * *

One little aspect of the impeachment conversations has been fascinating in a way I didn't expect: the supply of people going to great hyperbolic extremes, even in otherwise perfectly well-reasoned posts, to wildly overstate how utterly, absolutely impossible it is for the Senate to convict. I can't think of any other subject on which I've seen so much pretense of such absolute certainty outside of religions, and not even usually in religions except when they're making a presuppositionalist argument. Yall have turned yourselves into the Sye Ten Bruggencates of politics!
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Old 18th December 2019, 10:18 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
...

By impeaching on other stuff but not those, which they've been aware of longer, the controlling Democrats (primarily Pelosi) have already given all that other stuff the official "not impeachable offenses" stamp of approval.

...
I disagree.
In all criminal cases that actually go to Court, Prosecutors will only pick the charges they think they have the clearest case of or which they hope a Jury will find most convincing.
In no way does this mean they consider the other offenses unimportant or harmless.

Democrats picked the issues that Republicans should support as a matter of Institutional Self-Interest.
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Old 19th December 2019, 06:24 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
I hope it lasts long and creates the impression among his base that Trump is a lifelong criminal.
They already know he is. They just don't care, and I realized the reason a few days ago. It's because they've literally spent their whole lives being trained & brainwashed into coming up with excuses for exactly his sort of behavior, practicing it every chance they get year after year starting before they even heard of him... because his behavior just coincidentally happens to be identical to the behavior of their God.
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Old 19th December 2019, 09:41 AM   #92
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What I like about this poll is they forgot to add there is not going to be a trial. Something I didn't see coming. So anyone including me who guessed is probably wrong.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:03 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Evil Turtle is worried about his own job because his approval level has gotten pretty bad in his own state. However, he probably thinks that that's not because more people are more aware of how evil he is, but because he hasn't been evil enough.
He probably isn't wrong about that.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:26 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What I like about this poll is they forgot to add there is not going to be a trial. Something I didn't see coming. So anyone including me who guessed is probably wrong.
Planet X: Always the correct option.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:39 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What I like about this poll is they forgot to add there is not going to be a trial. Something I didn't see coming. So anyone including me who guessed is probably wrong.
I suspect there will be a trial, just so conservatives and the President can crow 'WITCHHUNT! EXONERATED!'
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:40 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I suspect there will be a trial, just so conservatives and the President can crow 'WITCHHUNT! EXONERATED!'
Why would the House go to trial just for that?
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:41 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would the House go to trial just for that?
Unlike the Senate, the House wouldn't.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:43 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
I suspect there will be a trial, just so conservatives and the President can crow 'WITCHHUNT! EXONERATED!'
As far as I know, the procedure is that the House must hand-deliver the Articles to the Senate before a trial can be held.
When I started the poll, it simply didn't occur to me that impeaching but withholding the Articles could possibly be an option. It still makes no sense.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:49 AM   #99
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Republicans don't give a crap about procedures. The Constitution says the House holds the vote to Impeach, the Senate holds the vote to Convict. That's it. There's no further details.

The House has voted to Impeach. That event has occurred. It's has already gone to the Senate regardless of whether or not it's technically, officially, as per tradition gone to the Senate. If McConnell calls the vote right now, what's gonna stop him? A technically? This man is immune to facts, he doesn't even know what a technicality is unless he's using it.

Listen I want Trump gone as much as anyone but this whole "Well we haven't dotted the last i on the page and had the herald deliver it on the guilded horse yet so it doesn't count" isn't going to fly.

It either is going to come across as a dirty lawyer trick or actually is one, and if we just have to talk "narrative" another thing that makes it look the Democrats want to impeach Trump without impeaching Trump. Or it's gonna come across as them being too scared to cross a Rubicon they are already on the other side of.
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Old 19th December 2019, 10:51 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would the House go to trial just for that?
I have no opinion on that.
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:03 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
As far as I know, the procedure is that the House must hand-deliver the Articles to the Senate before a trial can be held.
When I started the poll, it simply didn't occur to me that impeaching but withholding the Articles could possibly be an option. It still makes no sense.
It makes all the sense in the world.

McConnell has already declared he has no intention of conducting a fair trial and he's coordinating with the White House.

The argument against impeachment has been that the Senate won't convict him any way.

The argument for impeaching Trump has been at least there will be a trial where the public can learn the facts.

But the GOP has said publicly over and over again they have no intention of holding a fair trial with witnesses. They will call no witnesses and then vote to acquit. WHAT KIND OF TRIAL IS THAT?

At least by witholding the articles, the Senate cannot acquit and exonerate Trump.

If the GOP plan to play dirty, than dirty is what they get.
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:03 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Unlike the Senate, the House wouldn't.
So... No trial then? Or do you subscribe to the school of thought that the Senate can have a trial even if the House decides not to ask for one?
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:08 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They will call no witnesses and then vote to acquit. WHAT KIND OF TRIAL IS THAT?
Literally an impeachment trial.

Quote:
At least by witholding the articles, the Senate cannot acquit and exonerate Trump.
I'm pretty sure people will notice if the House backs away from putting their claims to the test.
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:09 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
At least by witholding the articles, the Senate cannot acquit and exonerate Trump.
Yes they can and they will.

The Constitution doesn't say the Impeachment Articles have to be hand delivered via an albino virgin flanked by 20 white doves on the full Harvest moon before the Senate is allowed to vote on it. It says once the House votes to impeach the Senate votes to convict. The first step has occurred. The House has voted to impeach. This is a fact and it is not in dispute. It's AT the Senate regardless of what the House says about the matter. Stop arguing procedural technicality to people who barely understand reality.
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:46 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
And that of the 2016 one.
Clinton lost in 2016 as much due to democratic Complacency
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Old 19th December 2019, 11:54 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Hopefully it will last long enough for you to realize it's not about Hillary losing 2016, it's about a criminal that won. Maybe you should try rereading the post you just quoted.....and do try paying attention to what it says this time.
democratic complacency helped him win.
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Old 19th December 2019, 03:06 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes they can and they will.

The Constitution doesn't say the Impeachment Articles have to be hand delivered via an albino virgin flanked by 20 white doves on the full Harvest moon before the Senate is allowed to vote on it. It says once the House votes to impeach the Senate votes to convict. The first step has occurred. The House has voted to impeach. This is a fact and it is not in dispute. It's AT the Senate regardless of what the House says about the matter. Stop arguing procedural technicality to people who barely understand reality.
This isn't my first rodeo. I'm sorry, you're just wrong. Articles of impeachment have been drawn up and been voted on and not delivered to the Senate before.

There is a process, just like there is in the Senate. The House conducts the trial in the Senate. House managers need to be selected. A case is prepared. Then dates for the trial must be agreed on in conjunction with the Senate.
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Old 19th December 2019, 03:37 PM   #108
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A week,

a day,

a weekday!
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Old 19th December 2019, 03:47 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes they can and they will.

The Constitution doesn't say the Impeachment Articles have to be hand delivered via an albino virgin flanked by 20 white doves on the full Harvest moon before the Senate is allowed to vote on it. It says once the House votes to impeach the Senate votes to convict. The first step has occurred. The House has voted to impeach. This is a fact and it is not in dispute. It's AT the Senate regardless of what the House says about the matter. Stop arguing procedural technicality to people who barely understand reality.
It would seem the people who run both houses of government know better than you. Because that does not appear to be the case. The articles need to be formally conveyed from one house to the other first. That's part of the process. And on the other side, the upper house needs to "accept" them in order to proceed to debate and vote, or in this case with the Senate trial of Trump.

And that has been the step which McConnell has been so profligate in NOT accepting lower house legislation that he doesn't like his masters will not allow. The vast majority of the lower house legislation passed since 2018 is currently in that actual "Pending" queue, awaiting the senate, led by McConnell, to accept it from Congress. There's masses of information about this, of course. And McConnell openly boasts of it to. He's made a sport of it, to be frank.

So, given this official process does exist, it is NOT true that legislation having been passed in the lower house is thus automatically IN the upper house. That impeachment legislation is right now still sitting with the Congress. Pelosi is playing Mitch at his own game. He can now insist it be passed up. In which case Pelosi can quite rightly insist that all the other pending legislation that is under McConnell's arse right now can be dealt with first. Then and only then might they send up the impeachment. And meanwhile, Trump sits charged with some pretty heavy crimes.

By the way, that also means he is effectively "out on bail". So if he tries to carry out more such crimes, and it is almost certain the blithering orange idiot will, there's no reason why this impeachment legislation can't be revisited, or another impeachment begun.
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Old 19th December 2019, 03:59 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It would seem the people who run both houses of government know better than you. Because that does not appear to be the case. The articles need to be formally conveyed from one house to the other first. That's part of the process. And on the other side, the upper house needs to "accept" them in order to proceed to debate and vote, or in this case with the Senate trial of Trump.

And that has been the step which McConnell has been so profligate in NOT accepting lower house legislation that he doesn't like his masters will not allow. The vast majority of the lower house legislation passed since 2018 is currently in that actual "Pending" queue, awaiting the senate, led by McConnell, to accept it from Congress. There's masses of information about this, of course. And McConnell openly boasts of it to. He's made a sport of it, to be frank.

So, given this official process does exist, it is NOT true that legislation having been passed in the lower house is thus automatically IN the upper house. That impeachment legislation is right now still sitting with the Congress. Pelosi is playing Mitch at his own game. He can now insist it be passed up. In which case Pelosi can quite rightly insist that all the other pending legislation that is under McConnell's arse right now can be dealt with first. Then and only then might they send up the impeachment. And meanwhile, Trump sits charged with some pretty heavy crimes.

By the way, that also means he is effectively "out on bail". So if he tries to carry out more such crimes, and it is almost certain the blithering orange idiot will, there's no reason why this impeachment legislation can't be revisited, or another impeachment begun.
I know Joe means well. He's just mistaken. A list of things must be done by both the House, the Senate as well as with the Supreme Court. Calendars must be set aside. If the House is not ready to press the case in the Senate, it's not ready. The Senate however is under a deadline once the articles have been delivered to the Senate. They can't just let an impeachment case hang in limbo. But they can end it quickly.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:24 PM   #111
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Withholding the articles from the Senate is probably the best Christmas present Pelosi could possibly give McConnell.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:29 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What I like about this poll is they forgot to add there is not going to be a trial. Something I didn't see coming. So anyone including me who guessed is probably wrong.
This is covered by the 'one hour or less' option (which I chose).
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:29 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Withholding the articles from the Senate is probably the best Christmas present Pelosi could possibly give McConnell.
Sure it is.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:31 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
This is covered by the 'one hour or less' option (which I chose).
I thought about that. Zero minutes is less than one hour.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:36 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sure it is. : rolleyes :
Think about it. Only the Senate can decide how to the Senate conducts its business. All Pelosi can really say is, "I won't bring this case to you until you promise try it the way I want."

All McConnell has to do is say, "Okay, " and that's the end of impeachment.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:45 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Think about it. Only the Senate can decide how to the Senate conducts its business. All Pelosi can really say is, "I won't bring this case to you until you promise try it the way I want."

All McConnell has to do is say, "Okay, " and that's the end of impeachment.
But it's not. Those articles can be delivered at any time. The House can even add articles to it in the upcoming year. Pelosi has a turd in a paper sack addressed to the US Senate. And just imagine what is uncovered in the next year? One day in the future, McConnell could easily be looking at a big flaming pile of crap on his doorstep.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:46 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Withholding the articles from the Senate is probably the best Christmas present Pelosi could possibly give McConnell.
If it means no impeachment trial ever then it's a great present for me too. Much better than Trump being found 'innocent', which at this point (with McConnell openly admitting to fixing the verdict) is the only possible outcome.
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Old 19th December 2019, 04:50 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
One day in the future, McConnell could easily be looking at a big flaming pile of crap on his doorstep.
In a few month's time it may be redundant. And then McConnell might not even have a doorstep for the big flaming pile of crap to land on.
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Old 19th December 2019, 05:07 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
In a few month's time it may be redundant. And then McConnell might not even have a doorstep for the big flaming pile of crap to land on.
What I think is amusing is the suggestion that anyone knows what this means politically. It's like people who say they know there is a god and that they know the mind of god. How could they know that? I know I don't. But I also know damn well they don't either.

The same is true about the fallout of the impeachment and what happens if the Democrats don't send the articles to the Senate. I have an idea how both sides will try to sell it. But not a ******* clue how the public will react.
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Old 19th December 2019, 05:08 PM   #120
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