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Old 7th May 2020, 10:00 AM   #41
beachnut
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Here we are almost 20 years later and the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...he-victims/amp

And

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/u...uantanamo.html

2000 USS Cole bombing trial at Guantanamo also has been a disaster.

What gives?
WRONG, AGAIN...

Why can't 9/11 truth liars and failed conspiracy theorist do math?


It is not almost 20 years... it is exactly, or almost exactly

18 years, 7 months, 26 days excluding the end date.

That is almost 19, not 20. You can't get the math right, and all the other BS you post follows in kind.

Originally Posted by geggy View Post
The first article states the reason for justifying keeping documents secret are being kept secret. It's just more layer of coverup
What is great about this is you have no clue how to explain why? Which means you failed to read for comprehension. You failed to read.

But make my day, explain in detail what it really means. Go ahead, try to think and explain. You can't, you were fooled by headlines, and failed to grasp meaning, and content.

Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Dave what are your feelings about Barr not releasing documents?

Edit: if you have any
You have a head line and you cherry-picked a quote. You have no clue what barr means.
Very shallow in explaining what it really is about.


Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Can't you tell the difference between theories and facts?

Fact: government is covering up 9/11.

Theory: government is behind 9/11.

Its that simple.
You have no facts the USA is covering up 9/11. ;

And you have a fantasy the USA did 9/11, or is behind 9/11.


Work on your math
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Last edited by beachnut; 7th May 2020 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 11:44 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Lol Oliver "I did it for patriotism" North? He only came forward before anyone knew about his deeper involvement with Iran contra. Explain to me about his relationship Yair Klein and Mike Hariri two former IDF and Mossad figures who opened mercenary for hire companies that were involved with training far right guerrlia to overthrow Noriega as well as Pablo Escobar's bodyguards. Tell me more about Project Democracy and their framing of Laroche, one of the investigators

John P ONeill, thats how they fixed it.
I don't understand how any of that answers my questions.
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Old 7th May 2020, 12:13 PM   #43
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Aside from the inability to do math, geggy, your complaint is the AG Barr refused to give out secrets that the US has in connection to 9/11? Why didn't the previous Administration, opposing anything that the Bush Administration did, reveal these secrets? Do you guys do any reasoning when you read articles in the paper or on the net? Does it sound more logical that the US has an asset in or near the Saudi kingdom that they (the government) don't want released? It really has not much to do with keeping secrets as it has to do with keeping a foot in the door so to speak in another foreign country. And in conjunction the government possibly (probably) has assets in other foreign counties that it wishes to maintain secret, National Security and its has nothing to do with the current Administration alone, it is all of them.

Now what if there exists a bunch of documents that have not been released to the public, would these give closure to those who lost family members in the attack on 9/11. If these documents would reveal a government plan/execution of the attacks, the Obama Administration would have been more than willing to release any/all that involved the Bush Administration. So we conclude no such documents exist.

The attack was planned by KSM, funded by OBL and carried out by nineteen Muslin men that involved crashing commercial airliners into targets in the US. Three planes achieved their objective targets, one did not because the passengers took matters into their own hands and forced the jet down in Pa. These facts are irrefutable, except by CTs.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:30 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Here we are almost 20 years later and the US is still active in covering up the truth about 9/11.

https://www.propublica.org/article/a...he-victims/amp

And

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/17/u...uantanamo.html

2000 USS Cole bombing trial at Guantanamo also has been a disaster.

What gives?

You tell me. Not sure what you’re arguing. “Secrets are bad, government is covering 9/11 up” is not an argument. It barely qualifies as polemics. I’d classify it as an unoriginal rant.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Yes. The Republican President George W. Bush with Dick Cheney planned all of it. Then, three years later, Democrat John Kerry running against Bush, never mentioned any cover-up, even though it would have guaranteed him an easy victory. Obama never mentioned it, either, even though he would have cruised to victory just on that issue. Once Obama became president, he never once mentioned it even though it would have guaranteed him a second term in a walk. Then Hillary Clinton kept silent even though it would have handed her a victory. Our current resident, who loves himself some conspiracy theories and is not a fan of the Bush-Cheney loyalists, hasn't bothered to mention it, either.

What gives with that?

Could be they all have something in common that insures their silence.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Could be they all have something in common that insures their silence.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you
You seem pretty well informed, how do we know you're not involved in 9/11 somehow? How do we know you did not work for Epstein?
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:25 PM   #47
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Quote:
The chorus of senior national security officials who wrote in support of the Trump administration’s secrets claim appeared to respond in part to Justice Department guidelines set down by the Obama administration in 2009. Those rules were intended to restrain overly aggressive use of the privilege, which the administration of George W. Bush had often cited after 9/11 to block legal challenges to its policies on torture, extraordinary rendition and warrantless surveillance.

Barr cited those more restrictive guidelines in his statement to the district court, noting that they prohibited the government from asserting a state secrets claim in order to conceal illegalities or potential embarrassment. He assured the magistrate judge in the case, Sarah Netburn, that those guidelines had been met.


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Old 7th May 2020, 07:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Could be they all have something in common that insures their silence.

Um, what would that be?

And what would it be for all the people who ran against them in the primaries?
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Old 7th May 2020, 11:20 PM   #49
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"Could be"

Yeah. It could also be Fonebone hasn't stopped beating his wife.
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Old 8th May 2020, 07:27 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Could be they all have something in common that insures their silence.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you
What has Epstein have anything to do with 9/11. You really need to research better and come up with plausible beliefs.
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Old 8th May 2020, 07:29 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper View Post
"Could be"

Yeah. It could also be Fonebone hasn't stopped beating his wife.
He hasn't??
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Old 8th May 2020, 08:02 AM   #52
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Because the Twoofer Narative is False, always was false, always will be false.
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Old 8th May 2020, 08:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Because the Twoofer Narative is False, always was false, always will be false.
Please define.
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Old 8th May 2020, 08:30 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Please define.
Where do you want me to start?
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:03 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Where do you want me to start?
You know if you looked at my reply you will see that I have bolded a couple of words and that is precisely what I would like defined.
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:22 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
You know if you looked at my reply you will see that I have bolded a couple of words and that is precisely what I would like defined.
Let's start with the very first claims, bombs in the towers, no explosive detonation waves.
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:49 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Let's start with the very first claims, bombs in the towers, no explosive detonation waves.
Lets answer my question.
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:50 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Lets answer my question.
The Twin Towers were not an inside Job.
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Old 8th May 2020, 09:51 AM   #59
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Geggy,
What specifically do you think is being covered up? Is it that some other group besides Al Qaeda is responsible for the attacks and hijacks? Or is it that someone else helped in the planning/funding of the attacks?
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:53 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The Twin Towers were not an inside Job.
OK, Thank you, and I agree with it not being an inside job since it was conceived by KSM, funded by OBL and carried out by nineteen of their disciples to crash into buildings in the US.
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
OK, Thank you, and I agree with it not being an inside job since it was conceived by KSM, funded by OBL and carried out by nineteen of their disciples to crash into buildings in the US.
What's my stance on 9/11? Oh um, anti. It was a tragedy, I mean we lost 19 of our best guys.

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Old 9th May 2020, 03:39 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
What has Epstein have anything to do with 9/11. You really need to research better and come up with plausible beliefs.
I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact that Epstein was Jewish.
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Old 9th May 2020, 06:26 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with the fact that Epstein was Jewish.
Druish?
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Old 9th May 2020, 09:29 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I mean they are supposed to be working for us, not keeping secret from 9/11 families
Missed this gem first time through the thread.

Being the surviving family member of a crime victim doesn't entitle anyone to full access to evidence and investigative materials in run-of-the-mill criminal incidents.

The notion that 9/11 survivors have some special claim on evidence and investigative materials is specious.
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:34 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Missed this gem first time through the thread.

Being the surviving family member of a crime victim doesn't entitle anyone to full access to evidence and investigative materials in run-of-the-mill criminal incidents.

The notion that 9/11 survivors have some special claim on evidence and investigative materials is specious.
But by the very nature of Government secrets, implies to CTs that the Government planned/executed/did nothing to stop the attacks.
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:51 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
But by the very nature of Government secrets, implies to CTs that the Government planned/executed/did nothing to stop the attacks.
I sometimes wonder if the various CT hawkers have any real world experience with any of the disciplines they discuss as part of whatever delusional theory they promote.

Aside from that, I seriously believe that many CTists don't have enough experience in dealing with actual human beings in the real world - mention to a CTist of any stripe that so-and-so witness or source may have simply be mistaken in (whatever) and they go into vapor lock - the concept of human frailty is unknown amongst CTists.
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Old 9th May 2020, 01:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
... mention to a CTist of any stripe that so-and-so witness or source may have simply be mistaken in (whatever) and they go into vapor lock - the concept of human frailty is unknown amongst CTists.
Admitting that other human beings can be mistaken opens up the possibility that the CTists themselves could conceivably be wrong. This is inconsistent with them owning The TruthTM
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Old 9th May 2020, 03:33 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I think you should tell us what you mean by "the truth" about 9/11.
What I get from the articles is that the US government is keeping secret some details related to 9/11. Do these details fundamentally change what we know about 9/11 - yes, no, or don't know?
Another (better?) question is: What would these details need to contain in order to challenge what we know about who committed 9/11?
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Old 9th May 2020, 05:05 PM   #69
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I would love to read the FBI-911 files.

I read the declassified JFK Assassination FBI files, it took a few months due to the tedious nature of raw government documents. Those files were kept secret for just under 50 years, and there were many reasons. They detailed FBI investigations which dove-tailed into the JFK assassination, but had nothing to do with what happened in Dallas. Criminal Informants are either named directly or by code names. Some of the folks named directly were still alive, and their lives were put in jeopardy. Naming these people was proof of FBI infiltration of various regional organized crime operations, and the Cuban exile community. While files only discussed the JFK assassination, interested parties could then back-trace to find out who blew the whistle, and cost syndicates money, and prison time.

The FBI and CIA files on the JFK Assassination didn't change the truth. Oswald acted alone. What they did show was that both agencies bent over backwards in their investigations trying to link Oswald to Castro, Communists, and or the Mafia. They never found evidence to do this.

Extrapolating from that exercise, the 911 FBI files likely detail their infiltration of Mosques before and after September, 2001. Certainly detail the mindset of FBI upper management toward Al Qaeda. There is a good chance there are FBI informants working for the Saudi government, or that we have compromised high-level Saudi communications. All of which would be costly if compromised, not only in strategic terms, but could end up with people being executed in the Middle East.

As was true with JFK, the 911 FBI files won't reveal dark secrets which will drastically change the story. It will just reveal secrets.

And most secrets are boring.
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Old 9th May 2020, 07:36 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I would love to read the FBI-911 files.

I read the declassified JFK Assassination FBI files, it took a few months due to the tedious nature of raw government documents. Those files were kept secret for just under 50 years, and there were many reasons. They detailed FBI investigations which dove-tailed into the JFK assassination, but had nothing to do with what happened in Dallas. Criminal Informants are either named directly or by code names. Some of the folks named directly were still alive, and their lives were put in jeopardy. Naming these people was proof of FBI infiltration of various regional organized crime operations, and the Cuban exile community. While files only discussed the JFK assassination, interested parties could then back-trace to find out who blew the whistle, and cost syndicates money, and prison time.

The FBI and CIA files on the JFK Assassination didn't change the truth. Oswald acted alone. What they did show was that both agencies bent over backwards in their investigations trying to link Oswald to Castro, Communists, and or the Mafia. They never found evidence to do this.

Extrapolating from that exercise, the 911 FBI files likely detail their infiltration of Mosques before and after September, 2001. Certainly detail the mindset of FBI upper management toward Al Qaeda. There is a good chance there are FBI informants working for the Saudi government, or that we have compromised high-level Saudi communications. All of which would be costly if compromised, not only in strategic terms, but could end up with people being executed in the Middle East.

As was true with JFK, the 911 FBI files won't reveal dark secrets which will drastically change the story. It will always just reveal secrets.

And most secrets are boring.
For what it’s worth, a couple of the 9/11 hijackers lived with an FBI informant in California. These are the same Saudi hijackers who had been known to the CIA before 9/11. The suspected (not proven) Saudi agents who assisted them when they arrived in the country had been the subjects of FBI counterterrorism investigations in the 1990s but those investigations were closed well before 9/11. These individuals received money from the Saudi Embassy in Washington, though it is murky if this was part of some kind of Saudi intelligence operation. This was all mentioned in the “28 pages” of the Joint Inquiry’s Report.

Furthermore, besides Southern California, there were many FBI Field Office investigations all over the country, including in NYC, New Jersey, Chicago, the DC area, Phoenix, Boston, Denver, Minneapolis (Moussaoui), and Florida both before and especially after 9/11 that were Al-Qaeda related. Some of the “before” did indeed directly relate to 9/11, while others didn’t. Some of those “before” field investigations were mentioned in Presidential Daily Briefs to Clinton and Bush, including the August 6, 2001 “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” PDB. Then there’s everything from FBI Headquarters...

I imagine there are also a lot of unreleased FBI documents related to the WTC bombing of 93 and the cohort surrounding the “Blind Sheikh.” Would be interesting to see if/when it’s declassified.

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Old 10th May 2020, 05:54 AM   #71
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You can't be arrested unless you have committed a crime... or in the process... or planning to commit one. The later is essentially the crime of conspiracy. Conspiracy are difficult cases to prove.

Law enforcement engages in sting operations... uses plants for info and entrapment.... essentially becoming part of the plot to commit a crime. These are difficult and dangerous operations and when the targets are not US nationals it's even harder to use plants and entrap.

So it seems entirely possible that LE knew something was up...has suspects under observation but felt their hands tied on proceeding with arrests (before the fact/crime)

Perhaps they thought they could catch them in the act before it got out of hand... like grab the terrorists before the boarded or even after they boarded.

We may never know because if they had plans to nab these guys they obviously were no executed or failed.
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Old 10th May 2020, 06:39 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
We may never know because if they had plans to nab these guys they obviously were no executed or failed.

There's no evidence of any plan to nab any of the terrorists. They may have come into and then fallen off the radar of various police and intelligence agencies. That's why the great lesson of 9/11 was better inter-agency cooperation and data sharing. The National Security Advisor role was created to do that.

And president who weakens the office of the National Security Advisor does so at the nation's peril.
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Old 10th May 2020, 06:57 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I've long been aware of the cognitive deficiencies of 9/11 truthers, but I though most of them could at least count past 18 without getting it wrong.

Dave
To be fair, I'd say that 19 IS 'almost 20'.

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Old 10th May 2020, 07:35 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I mean they are supposed to be working for us, not keeping secret from 9/11 families
You know, if you're so concerned with 9/11 families and others affected by this day, they typically object to the needless parading of scenes from that day, such as the planes exploding into the towers in massive fireballs. This due to trauma and grief reactions these images trigger. Just saying.
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Old 10th May 2020, 08:04 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Another (better?) question is: What would these details need to contain in order to challenge what we know about who committed 9/11?
Evidence of an active role of some type by GWB, or members of the Federal government.
That will not be happening ever.
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Old 10th May 2020, 01:51 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Um, what would that be?

And what would it be for all the people who ran against them in the primaries?

From the link I posted...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you

[excerpt]
Epstein’s little black book was published by Gawker in 2015.......
-and-
The black book contains more than 1,000 names, ranging from close friends like Wexner
to peripheral contacts from the worlds of politics, business, the media and European high society.
The U.K.’s Prince Andrew and members of the Trump family make appearances.
There’s even an entry for the main number to the White House. [/excerpt]
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Old 10th May 2020, 02:17 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
From the link I posted...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you

[excerpt]
Epstein’s little black book was published by Gawker in 2015.......
-and-
The black book contains more than 1,000 names, ranging from close friends like Wexner
to peripheral contacts from the worlds of politics, business, the media and European high society.
The U.K.’s Prince Andrew and members of the Trump family make appearances.
There’s even an entry for the main number to the White House. [/excerpt]

They've all feasted on the endochrome of infants?
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Old 10th May 2020, 04:37 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
From the link I posted...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-talk-to-you

[excerpt]
Epstein’s little black book was published by Gawker in 2015.......
-and-
The black book contains more than 1,000 names, ranging from close friends like Wexner
to peripheral contacts from the worlds of politics, business, the media and European high society.
The U.K.’s Prince Andrew and members of the Trump family make appearances.
There’s even an entry for the main number to the White House. [/excerpt]
...And?

This will come as a shock to you: People like to suck up to billionaires, and billionaires are billionaires because they cultivate relationships with people in power around the world. Me? I gotta write my Congressman. Bill Gates? He has his Congressional representative on speed dial - and his calls are always answered.

If Epstein was so powerful how did he end up "committing suicide" in Federal lockup? How did the world even know about him at all? Thank the Miami Herald. People always talk. Yet in 19 years the facts surrounding 9-11-2001 remain unchanged. Al Qaeda used 19 men to hijack 4 commercial jets, and successfully crashed 3 into their targets. There were warnings of an attack made by Al Qaeda in early 2001, the CIA, FBI, and Bush NSC didn't think the threat was a high priority.

The only things missing are the internal FBI and CIA memos detailing why the Al Qaeda investigations leading up to the attacks were back-burner'd by their senior management. This is the only piece of the puzzle yet to see the light of day.
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Old 10th May 2020, 08:35 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
There were warnings of an attack made by Al Qaeda in early 2001, the CIA, FBI, and Bush NSC didn't think the threat was a high priority.

Well, there were warnings that Al Qaeda was attempting some sort of attack on American soil, but those warnings lacked any specificity. There were no warnings at the highest levels of an attack on the World Trade Center, an attack using passenger planes, or an attack by any of the 19 individuals involved.

Chasing down such a vague lead would have required enormous resources. Ut to September 11, 2001, those kinds of investments were prohibitive and politically very foolish. The American public would want to know why so much of its money was going into some secret war that wasn't even happening.

After 9/11, of course, the American public was very much on board with the idea.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:42 PM   #80
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1. The World Trade Center had been bombed by Islamist extremists in 1993.

2. Suicide bombings by Islamist extremists had been an increasingly common method of attack.

3. Everyone knew Osama bin Laden was determined to attack the American homeland — he warned as much in letters and interviews, including a few with Western journalists.

4. There had been scattered reports of Middle Eastern men taking flying lessons with no apparent interest in learning to take off or land. Zacarias Moussaoui was the most clear pre-9/11 example.

5. Finally, as has been repeated ad nauseam, the CIA was aware of at least one al-Qaeda operative who had entered the United States, and another who had a multi-entry US visa. These two operatives would be among the 9/11 hijackers.

Hindsight is obviously 20/20, but I’m not convinced that it took a genius for a counterterrorism official in the US government to imagine something like the 9/11 attacks being plausible beforehand. Of course, it was but one of many possibilities prior to the attacks.
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