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Tags Brian Kolfage , fraud cases , politics scandals , Steve Bannon , Trump administration

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Old 20th August 2020, 11:50 AM   #1
Meadmaker
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Steve Bannon Indicted

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/polit...ent/index.html

Indicted for fraud. Seems he and others created a "We Build the Wall" fundraising campaign, but didn't use the money for building the wall.



I wonder if there is also a "We Drain the Swamp" organization.
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Old 20th August 2020, 11:56 AM   #2
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LOL.

Anyway, good. I hope he gets all the due process he deserves.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/polit...ent/index.html

Indicted for fraud. Seems he and others created a "We Build the Wall" fundraising campaign, but didn't use the money for building the wall.



I wonder if there is also a "We Drain the Swamp" organization.
Who said we don't need the wall.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:05 PM   #4
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A political cartoonist should depict Bannon as a waiter serving an over-sized Trump some coffee, with a line of waiters behind him, and a line of waiters on their way out the door recognizable as Manafort, Flynn, Epstein, etc.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
LOL.

Anyway, good. I hope he gets all the due process he deserves.
I expected more from you.

He should at least get the due process required by law, hoping for him to get less is just mean.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:14 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Who said we don't need the wall.
A political operative stands accused of exploiting their candidate's campaign platform to commit fraud. If true, it deserves condemnation. The accusation itself deserves attention, not deflection. Stop trying to distract from what's happening just because you can't figure out how to justify it.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A political operative stands accused of exploiting their candidate's campaign platform to commit fraud. If true, it deserves condemnation. The accusation itself deserves attention, not deflection. Stop trying to distract from what's happening just because you can't figure out how to justify it.
But the candidate had a fraudulent college, really everyone knew it was a scam anyway so it doesn't count, just like Trump University.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if there is also a "We Drain the Swamp" organization.
The alligators who run it have assured us that all the money will go directly to draining the swamp and the alligators themselves won't receive a penny.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I expected more from you.

He should at least get the due process required by law, hoping for him to get less is just mean.
I don't understand this at all. You seem to be agreeing with me in every sense, but somehow you've phrased it like I'm doing something different.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:19 PM   #10
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Presidential Pardon in 3, 2, ...
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:20 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Presidential Pardon in 3, 2, ...
Avatar bet?
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:22 PM   #12
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Yeah, remember Bannon wrote a book about the President. Not in Trump’s happy bin. Bannon is already an unperson in the President’s eyes.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Avatar bet?
That Trump will pardon Bannon or commute his sentence should he face jail time?
Assuming that Bannon doesn't cooperate against Trump?

I would take a limited-time avatar bet on that.

Of course, Trump has time until January to do that (assuming he won't win in November), but Bannon's trial is almost certain to run longer than that.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:28 PM   #14
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I wish him well.

But I'll wait for the results too.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:31 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That Trump will pardon Bannon or commute his sentence should he face jail time?
Assuming that Bannon doesn't cooperate against Trump?

I would take a limited-time avatar bet on that.

Of course, Trump has time until January to do that (assuming he won't win in November), but Bannon's trial is almost certain to run longer than that.
He can preemptively pardon Bannon.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:32 PM   #16
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Trump claims he didn't approve of the private donation fundraising scheme. But he did.

Quote:
Trump reacted to the news on Thursday, saying, "I feel very badly. I haven't been dealing with him for a very long period of time. Haven't been dealing with him at all. Don't know anything about the project at all. It's a very sad thing by Mr. Bannon.”
But that's not what Kris Kobach said over a year ago:

Quote:
Kris Kobach, a former Kansas secretary of state who acted as an advisor for We Build The Wall, told the New York Times in January 2019 that Trump gave his “blessing” to keep the fundraising campaign going.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisette.../#7e3e1d843662
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump claims he didn't approve of the private donation fundraising scheme. But he did.



But that's not what Kris Kobach said over a year ago
FTFY.

And let me guess: You don't trust Donald Trump, and you don't trust Steve Bannon, but you do trust Kris Kobach?
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:48 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That Trump will pardon Bannon or commute his sentence should he face jail time?
Assuming that Bannon doesn't cooperate against Trump?

I would take a limited-time avatar bet on that.

Of course, Trump has time until January to do that (assuming he won't win in November), but Bannon's trial is almost certain to run longer than that.
Heh. Seems like your "Presidential Pardon in 3, 2, ..." is laughably premature. How about we wait until there's actually something there to bet on?
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
FTFY.

And let me guess: You don't trust Donald Trump, and you don't trust Steve Bannon, but you do trust Kris Kobach?
Trump endorsed it enough to let jr, promote it.
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Old 20th August 2020, 12:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't understand this at all. You seem to be agreeing with me in every sense, but somehow you've phrased it like I'm doing something different.
I'm implying that he doesn't "deserve" even the bare minimum required by law.

Such that getting all that he deserves would not be very good.

Sorry, it didn't land. Many of my attempts don't.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I'm implying that he doesn't "deserve" even the bare minimum required by law.

Such that getting all that he deserves would not be very good.

Sorry, it didn't land. Many of my attempts don't.
Ah. You seemed to be making a joke at my expense ("I expected more from you"). Jokes at other people's expense are notoriously tricky to land.

Anyway, more seriously: I disagree about what he deserves. It is my strong belief that everyone in the community is entitled to the same rule of law, and the same due process. Guilty or innocent, he deserves exactly what the law provides for, both in his prosecution and his defense. More than that, even if he is guilty, he is entitled to seek and receive acquittal, if he can prove that he did not receive due process in the trial.

My point is this: An indictment is not a conviction. It's an accusation. I think the accusation is plausible, both because it occasioned a formal indictment, and because of the kind of person Bannon has revealed himself to be. So I hope for due process. If the accusation is true, I hope he's properly convicted and sentenced for it. If somehow it turns out to be false, I hope he is properly acquitted. And if it's true, but the conviction did not follow due process, then I hope it is overturned on appeal, and the prosecutor and judge are sanctioned for their oversight.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:02 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Trump endorsed it enough to let jr, promote it.
Moreover, its a lot easier to believe something said on a random comment from a 6ear ago than someone's denials after having been caught.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Yeah, remember Bannon wrote a book about the President. Not in Trump’s happy bin. Bannon is already an unperson in the President’s eyes.
Unless Bannon has something on Trump that he could potentially offer in a plea agreement.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:09 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ah. You seemed to be making a joke at my expense ("I expected more from you"). Jokes at other people's expense are notoriously tricky to land.

Anyway, more seriously: I disagree about what he deserves. It is my strong belief that everyone in the community is entitled to the same rule of law, and the same due process. Guilty or innocent, he deserves exactly what the law provides for, both in his prosecution and his defense. More than that, even if he is guilty, he is entitled to seek and receive acquittal, if he can prove that he did not receive due process in the trial.

My point is this: An indictment is not a conviction. It's an accusation. I think the accusation is plausible, both because it occasioned a formal indictment, and because of the kind of person Bannon has revealed himself to be. So I hope for due process. If the accusation is true, I hope he's properly convicted and sentenced for it. If somehow it turns out to be false, I hope he is properly acquitted. And if it's true, but the conviction did not follow due process, then I hope it is overturned on appeal, and the prosecutor and judge are sanctioned for their oversight.
this.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:12 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Who said we don't need the wall.
Certainly not Meadmaker.

He literally said nothing about his actual feelings regarding the wall, only that the fundraising operation appears to have been a scam.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Certainly not Meadmaker.

He literally said nothing about his actual feelings regarding the wall, only that the fundraising operation appears to have been a scam.
Exactly. This isn't a thread about a wall. It's about a scam.

For anyone who thinks the wall is a really, really, good idea, this indictment ought to make you very sad because, if the allegations are true, it would mean that these men never really were about trying to get a wall. Millions of dollars that were meant to be wall related instead went to line the pockets of some politically-themed opportunists.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
FTFY.

And let me guess: You don't trust Donald Trump, and you don't trust Steve Bannon, but you do trust Kris Kobach?
If I had to choose between Trump and Kobach, I'd choose Kobach. But that's like choosing between liver cancer and breast cancer. You have a slightly better chance with breast cancer.

As has already been pointed out, Donnie Jr. also praised the project.

Quote:
Donald Trump Jr. praised We Build The Wall and Brian Kolfage at a 2018 event: "This is private enterprise at its finest. Doing it better, faster, cheaper than anything else. What you guys are doing is amazing.”
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/129...058832899?s=20
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ah. You seemed to be making a joke at my expense ("I expected more from you"). Jokes at other people's expense are notoriously tricky to land.
Agreed.

Quote:
Anyway, more seriously: I disagree about what he deserves. It is my strong belief that everyone in the community is entitled to the same rule of law, and the same due process. Guilty or innocent, he deserves exactly what the law provides for, both in his prosecution and his defense. More than that, even if he is guilty, he is entitled to seek and receive acquittal, if he can prove that he did not receive due process in the trial.

My point is this: An indictment is not a conviction. It's an accusation. I think the accusation is plausible, both because it occasioned a formal indictment, and because of the kind of person Bannon has revealed himself to be. So I hope for due process. If the accusation is true, I hope he's properly convicted and sentenced for it. If somehow it turns out to be false, I hope he is properly acquitted. And if it's true, but the conviction did not follow due process, then I hope it is overturned on appeal, and the prosecutor and judge are sanctioned for their oversight.
Agreed, but he is such a despicable snake that when you bring out loaded language, like "deserve", well, let's just say we studied the old testament before lunch and the new testament after lunch. And I slept a lot after lunch.

<<I'll type out a sarcastic smiley face here since you block emojis>>
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:35 PM   #29
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Bannon and his conspirators are facing 20 or 40 years maximum prison sentences depending on whether the charges are stackable.

.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
FTFY.

And let me guess: You don't trust Donald Trump, and you don't trust Steve Bannon, but you do trust Kris Kobach?
I trust Trump would have corrected the claim last year if he didn't like it being said.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:37 PM   #31
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Bannon just pleaded not guilty. Not surprised.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Certainly not Meadmaker.

He literally said nothing about his actual feelings regarding the wall, only that the fundraising operation appears to have been a scam.
Also this.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I trust Trump would have corrected the claim last year if he didn't like it being said.
Since Trump hasn't been indicted, and nobody has presented any evidence that he was party to the alleged fraud, it's not really relevant to this thread.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Since Trump hasn't been indicted, and nobody has presented any evidence that he was party to the alleged fraud, it's not really relevant to this thread.
Nobody has said, or even suggested, that Trump was involved in the fraud.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:50 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Bannon just pleaded not guilty. Not surprised.
It's commonplace in the US justice system to plead not guilty. Absent news of a plea deal, why would you be surprised*? I'm kinda surprised you decided to post something so banal and so expected.

---
*Actually I can think of one reason you'd claim to be surprised: If you were pushing a narrative that Bannon is too stupid to plead not guilty, and therefore you're surprised that he didn't plead guilty. But it appears that however stupid he might be, Bannon is still at least smart enough to do what everybody else does in this situation. Which doesn't surprise you.
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Old 20th August 2020, 01:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Nobody has said, or even suggested, that Trump was involved in the fraud.
Exactly. Which is why he's not really on topic for this thread. Steve Bannon was indicted for fraud. Somehow you want to turn it into yet another thread about Donald Trump. Please don't do that. There's already threads discussing Bannon's relationship to Trump. There's already threads discussing Trumpism in general. This thread is about the allegations of fraud against Bannon. (Really, it should be in T&E.)
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Old 20th August 2020, 02:01 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's commonplace in the US justice system to plead not guilty. Absent news of a plea deal, why would you be surprised*? I'm kinda surprised you decided to post something so banal and so expected.

---
*Actually I can think of one reason you'd claim to be surprised: If you were pushing a narrative that Bannon is too stupid to plead not guilty, and therefore you're surprised that he didn't plead guilty. But it appears that however stupid he might be, Bannon is still at least smart enough to do what everybody else does in this situation. Which doesn't surprise you.
You know what else doesn't surprise me? Your need to respond to something you consider so banal in such an argumentative manner. But that really is the point of it after all.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 20th August 2020 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 20th August 2020, 02:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Exactly. Which is why he's not really on topic for this thread. Steve Bannon was indicted for fraud. Somehow you want to turn it into yet another thread about Donald Trump. Please don't do that. There's already threads discussing Bannon's relationship to Trump. There's already threads discussing Trumpism in general. This thread is about the allegations of fraud against Bannon. (Really, it should be in T&E.)
While I don't care for guilt by association, I can't help but think of the old maxim

A man is known by the company he keeps.

Its amazing just how many of Trump's close associates have been indicted as well as convicted.

John Gotti associated with fewer criminals.
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Old 20th August 2020, 02:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
The alligators who run it have assured us that all the money will go directly to draining the swamp and the alligators themselves won't receive a penny.

That’s just an alligation.
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Old 20th August 2020, 02:10 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post

He should at least get the due process required by law, hoping for him to get less is just mean.
What if we hope he gets treated the way trump wants criminals to be treated?

Make sure they hit their head when the cops put him in the car. Have the trial results the way trump wanted the central park 5 results to be (I.e. found guilty even if actually innocent)


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