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Tags Brad Raffensberger , donald trump , election fraud charges , Georgia elections , politics scandals

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Old 3rd January 2021, 05:46 PM   #1
Skeptical Greg
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Trump Pressures GA Sec Of State To Change Election Results

FULL AUDIO: Call between President Trump, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger on election

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Channel 2 Action News investigative reporter Justin Gray has independently obtained the full recording of a phone call between President Donald Trump and Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in which the president pressured him to overturn the election results.

Some transcript here: Transcript excerpts..

Quote:
“So look. All I want to do is this. I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state,” Trump says.

Is it too late to impeach?
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Old 3rd January 2021, 05:49 PM   #2
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"LOL don't be so dramatic" - The 'I'm totally not a Trump Supporter' Trump Supporters.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 05:52 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"LOL don't be so dramatic" - The 'I'm totally not a Trump Supporter' Trump Supporters.
Also: "he didn't explicitly threaten criminal charges if Raffensperger chose not to "find" enough votes to overturn the election."
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Old 3rd January 2021, 05:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"LOL don't be so dramatic" - The 'I'm totally not a Trump Supporter' Trump Supporters.

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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:01 PM   #5
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It's not too late to impeach. Preventing him from holding office in the future is one of the possible consequences of impeachment.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:03 PM   #6
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If USA elects him again, we deserve it..
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
It's not too late to impeach. Preventing him from holding office in the future is one of the possible consequences of impeachment.
Our party leaders are to busy "healing the divide" to care about justice.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
If USA elects him again, we deserve it..
All of this only proves that the US cannot be trusted to govern itself. We need to be put under UN authority for our own good and the world's safety.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:12 PM   #9
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The UN is a useless money hole.. It has never solved a problem...
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Also: "he didn't explicitly threaten criminal charges if Raffensperger chose not to "find" enough votes to overturn the election."
Yes he did. Did you listen to the whole hour?

Quote:
And you’re going to discover that they’re — which is completely unlawful, it’s extra unlawful for you than it’s for them as a result of, you understand what they did and also you’re not reporting it. That’s a prison, that’s a prison offense. And you may’t let that occur. That’s a giant threat to you and to Ryan, your lawyer. And that’s a giant threat. However they’re shredding ballots, in my view, primarily based on what I’ve heard. And they’re eradicating equipment they usually’re shifting it as quick as they will, each of that are prison finds. And you may’t let it occur and you might be letting it occur. You understand, I imply, I’m notifying you that you simply’re letting it occur. So look. All I wish to do is that this. I simply wish to discover 11,780 votes, which is another than we have now as a result of we received the state.
It's amazing to me how many people want to play this down.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:22 PM   #11
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Here is a more complete transcript:

See: CNN

Here is a question... one of the sections has the following:
Trump: But, um, we're so far ahead. We're so far ahead of these numbers, even the phony ballots of [name], known scammer. You know the Internet? You know what was trending on the Internet? "Where's [name]?" Because they thought she'd be in jail. "Where's [name]?" It's crazy, it's crazy. That was. The minimum number is 18,000 for [name], but they think it's probably about 56,000, but the minimum number is 18,000 on the [name] night where she ran back in there when everybody was gone and stuffed, she stuffed the ballot boxes.

My question is, would the individual Trump is referring to be able to sue Trump for defamation of character?

(The transcript blanks out the name, and its bleeped out when it is played on TV, but I assume people can track down the person he was referring to.)

I know the president has some protection from lawsuits related to his job, but it seems like this is outside what would be considered his "official duties".
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Old 3rd January 2021, 06:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's amazing to me how many people want to play this down.
How many is that?

Who is playing this down?
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here is a more complete transcript:

See: CNN

Here is a question... one of the sections has the following:
Trump: But, um, we're so far ahead. We're so far ahead of these numbers, even the phony ballots of [name], known scammer. You know the Internet? You know what was trending on the Internet? "Where's [name]?" Because they thought she'd be in jail. "Where's [name]?" It's crazy, it's crazy. That was. The minimum number is 18,000 for [name], but they think it's probably about 56,000, but the minimum number is 18,000 on the [name] night where she ran back in there when everybody was gone and stuffed, she stuffed the ballot boxes.

My question is, would the individual Trump is referring to be able to sue Trump for defamation of character?

(The transcript blanks out the name, and its bleeped out when it is played on TV, but I assume people can track down the person he was referring to.)

I know the president has some protection from lawsuits related to his job, but it seems like this is outside what would be considered his "official duties".
Ruby Freeman.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ru...rested-by-fbi/
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:03 PM   #14
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Hey I heard Trump admit a mistake. He said, "What a schmuck I was" to endorse Kemp.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
He's being sarcastic. That's what Trump supporters will say.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:09 PM   #16
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Republicans won't vote in the Senate runoff because they hate the Ga. secretary of state ... yeah, that makes sense.

If it's true, that's great. But what an odd thing to threaten - both for its irrationality, and because at this point I don't think they're going to cry bitter tears because Republicans lose the U.S. Senate.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Republicans won't vote in the Senate runoff because they hate the Ga. secretary of state ... yeah, that makes sense.

If it's true, that's great. But what an odd thing to threaten - both for its irrationality, and because at this point I don't think they're going to cry bitter tears because Republicans lose the U.S. Senate.
Does anyone expect rationality from these idiots?

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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Republicans won't vote in the Senate runoff because they hate the Ga. secretary of state ... yeah, that makes sense.

If it's true, that's great. But what an odd thing to threaten - both for its irrationality, and because at this point I don't think they're going to cry bitter tears because Republicans lose the U.S. Senate.
Trump's timing on this call right before the Senate runoff was impeccable. All Trump, unaware there even is a runoff. It's all about Trump.

You watch: tomorrow's speech to help Perdue and Loeffler will be about nothing but Trump's been wronged by top Georgia GOP officials.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 07:57 PM   #19
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It goes back to:

Don't worry! It's just an attempted coup.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 08:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Also: "he didn't explicitly threaten criminal charges if Raffensperger chose not to "find" enough votes to overturn the election."
“He’s not uniquely bad.”
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Old 3rd January 2021, 08:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Who the ******* hell is downplaying what Trump is doing? Oh, wait. YOU are!

You have been confidently predicting that Trump's mental processes are such that he is about to concede and give the whole thing up since... November 4th was it?

Okay, that was two months ago. All your Kremlinological readings of his tweets say more about your own cognitive filters than it does Trump's.

From what I can see, Trump is concerned entirely with staying in power and getting anyone and everyone he can to agree with him that he is going to stay in power.

Any claims that he is going through the stages of grief, or that his mental defences against reality are crumbling is just nonsense. He doesn't recognize any of this.

So, why don't YOU stop downplaying what Trump is doing?
You don't have to like my POV that no coup was actually in the making here.

I have not downplayed what Trump is doing. I have downplayed that he has a chance in hell of actually pulling off a coup.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/coup-d-etat
Quote:
noun, plural coups d'é·tat [koo dey-tahz; French koo dey-ta].
a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.
Let's get some other facts straight here re that highlighted bit, I never once said Trump would concede. I said many times he never will actually concede. His mental illness prevents him from ever saying "I concede."

I did say and still believe he will slink out of the WH before noon on Jan 20. He won't refuse to be removed because without an army he knows he'll lose that battle.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 08:54 PM   #22
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This is the self-described LAW & ORDER! president.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 09:03 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You make my point with this attempt to downplay what Trump had actually said in this call.

It's still just an attempted coup: no army, no military backing, no valid legal means of overthrowing an election.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Who the ******* hell is downplaying what Trump is doing? Oh, wait. YOU are!

You have been confidently predicting that Trump's mental processes are such that he is about to concede and give the whole thing up since... November 4th was it?

Okay, that was two months ago. All your Kremlinological readings of his tweets say more about your own cognitive filters than it does Trump's.

From what I can see, Trump is concerned entirely with staying in power and getting anyone and everyone he can to agree with him that he is going to stay in power.

Any claims that he is going through the stages of grief, or that his mental defences against reality are crumbling is just nonsense. He doesn't recognize any of this.

So, why don't YOU stop downplaying what Trump is doing?
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You don't have to like my POV that no coup was actually in the making here.

I have not downplayed what Trump is doing. I have downplayed that he has a chance in hell of actually pulling off a coup.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/coup-d-etat
Quote:
a sudden and decisive action in politics, especially one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.
Let's get some other facts straight here re that highlighted bit, I never once said Trump would concede. I said many times he never will actually concede. His mental illness prevents him from ever saying "I concede."

I did say and still believe he will slink out of the WH before noon on Jan 20. He won't refuse to be removed because without an army he knows he'll lose that battle.
Oh my Christ! The point about a coup attempt is that it is illegal. Are you now saying it is not an attempted coup because it was not "decisive"? Huh?

That's what makes it an attempt, obviously!
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 3rd January 2021, 09:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Oh my Christ! The point about a coup attempt is that it is illegal. Are you now saying it is not an attempted coup because it was not "decisive"? Huh?

That's what makes it an attempt, obviously!
When this whole coup or no coup argument started, I objected to all the fearmongering. I think you might need to go read a couple pages of that exchange because you are painting what I posted differently from what I actually posted then.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 09:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Believe what he's saying? Can Trump even understand what he's saying? What he does, and what he tries to do, is infuriating enough. But the way he speaks...Jesus Christ. I realize it's not considered polite these days to throw this word around but Trump literally retarded? Because that's the impression I get from the rambling crap he spews out. It's not just the content, it's the way he says it as well. If my elderly relatives spoke in that fashion I'd have them checked to see if their Alzheimer's had been infected by dementia.
I've had a couple of friends who have had parents suffer from dementia, and they say that they find Trump's manner of speaking to be alarming, because it reminds them of what their parents sounded like.
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Old 3rd January 2021, 09:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
When this whole coup or no coup argument started, I objected to all the fearmongering. I think you might need to go read a couple pages of that exchange because you are painting what I posted differently from what I actually posted then.
No, I stated often enough back then that this was of course going to fail. It was the attempt itself which was the problem. You kept saying that I was buying into Trump's beliefs about a stolen election or some other such nonsense despite my repeated attempts to correct you.

So, here's the question, are you denying or accepting that Trump is at the very least attempting a coup?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 3rd January 2021, 11:24 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post

My question is, would the individual Trump is referring to be able to sue Trump for defamation of character?
No, but mostly because that individual doesn't appear to actually exist as such.
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Old 4th January 2021, 12:30 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 4th January 2021, 12:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No, but mostly because that individual doesn't appear to actually exist as such.
Yes, she does. Her name is Ruby Freeman. Trump says her name several times in the uncensored audio posted here on ISF earlier. I heard it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ru...rested-by-fbi/
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:18 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes, she does. Her name is Ruby Freeman. Trump says her name several times in the uncensored audio posted here on ISF earlier. I heard it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ru...rested-by-fbi/
Yes, I know Trump says her name.

What I'm saying is, there doesn't appear to actually be any independently-verified evidence that anyone named "Ruby Freeman" worked as a poll worker in Georgia on Election Day. The "identification" of a woman in a video often claimed to be evidence of fraud by Trumpists, was made by internet right-wing extremists and to my knowledge has never been corroborated either by actual journalists or by state election officials.
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:25 AM   #31
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Here is something else to think about...

From the transcript:
Trump: ...I mean, there's no way that these things could have been you know, you have all these different people that voted but they don't live in Georgia anymore. What was that number, Cleta? That was a pretty good number too.
Mitchell: The number who have registered out of state after they moved from Georgia. And so they had a date when they moved from Georgia, they registered to vote out of state. And then it's like 4,500, I don't have that number right in front of me.
Trump: And then they came back in and they voted.
Mitchell: And voted. Yeah.
Trump: I thought that was a large number, though. It was in the 20s. The point is...
Germany: We've been going through each of those as well and those numbers that we got that Ms. Mitchell was just saying, they're not accurate. Every one we've been through, are people that lived in Georgia, moved to a different state, but then moved back to Georgia legitimately. And in many cases
Trump: How many people do that? They moved out and then they said, "Ah, to hell with it I'll move back." You know, it doesn't sound like a very normal ... you mean, they moved out, and what, they missed it so much that they wanted to move back in? It's crazy.


Ok, not only is Trump insulting the people running the elections in Georgia (including the politicians, the sec. of state, all the way down to the poll workers), he just insulted the entire state of Georgia. He is suggesting the state is so bad that once someone 'escapes' they will never want to go back there.

"Why would anyone want to move back to Georgia? Its a ****-hole state".
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:34 AM   #32
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I'm wondering if this could be the first time Trump has been told "no" in any serious way.

He just can't believe what he's hearing.

Could he really encourage his followers to boycott Tuesday's election of out spite for the governor and secretary of state? Maybe some revenge at Mitch for not falling into line? I doubt it but you never know ...
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes, I know Trump says her name.

What I'm saying is, there doesn't appear to actually be any independently-verified evidence that anyone named "Ruby Freeman" worked as a poll worker in Georgia on Election Day. The "identification" of a woman in a video often claimed to be evidence of fraud by Trumpists, was made by internet right-wing extremists and to my knowledge has never been corroborated either by actual journalists or by state election officials.
If you read the Snopes report I linked you can see that Ruby Freeman does exist. She is a real person who did work as a Georgia poll worker. Here is another link that makes this clear that came from this NBC article
https://www.niemanlab.org/2020/12/we...conspiracists/

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Old 4th January 2021, 01:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes, I know Trump says her name.

What I'm saying is, there doesn't appear to actually be any independently-verified evidence that anyone named "Ruby Freeman" worked as a poll worker in Georgia on Election Day. The "identification" of a woman in a video often claimed to be evidence of fraud by Trumpists, was made by internet right-wing extremists and to my knowledge has never been corroborated either by actual journalists or by state election officials.
Well, there is this:

From: Niemanlab
Really, I want to talk to Ruby Freeman, but I can’t. She has been, bravely and correctly, off the grid since some psychopaths doxxed her shortly after the election. I bet you don’t know who Ruby Freeman is, and that would make you a normal person. Here’s some background. In reality, Ruby runs one of those kiosks in the middle of the mall that sells ladies’ accessories, purses — that sort of thing. She also helped count ballots in Georgia last month.

Note: I wasn't sure how reliable that the website (Niemanlab) was... I couldn't find it on mediabias. However, the author (Ben Collins) does appear to write for NBC, so I am leaning in the direction that it is legitimate. (although admittedly I could be convinced otherwise, given evidence.)

As for your statement: The "identification" of a woman in a video often claimed to be evidence of fraud by Trumpists, was made by internet right-wing extremists...
My assumption is that the MAGAchuds took a real person, and simply attached a fake video, incorrectly attributing it.

ETA: Darn... Ninja'd by Stacyhs
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Oh my Christ! The point about a coup attempt is that it is illegal. Are you now saying it is not an attempted coup because it was not "decisive"? Huh?

That's what makes it an attempt, obviously!
This is the same bull you know what they tried with the Ukraine scandal. "It isn't really a bribe/election interference because..."
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:48 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
I've had a couple of friends who have had parents suffer from dementia, and they say that they find Trump's manner of speaking to be alarming, because it reminds them of what their parents sounded like.
Alarming in one sense, but maybe slightly reassuring, because in four years' time hopefully he won't even remember his name, let alone that he wanted a second term.

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Old 4th January 2021, 01:50 AM   #37
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From the NBC article I linked above:

Quote:
Tweeting Sunday morning at Raffensperger, Trump noted his conversation with the secretary of state.

"He was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the 'ballots under table' scam, ballot destruction, out of state 'voters', dead voters, and more," Trump said. "He has no clue!"

Raffensperger responded: "Respectfully, President Trump: What you're saying is not true. The truth will come out."

Later Sunday, Trump called elections in swing states "UNCONSTITUTIONAL!"
Raffensperger or his lawyer (Ryan Germany) did, or tried, to answer, but Trump either refused to accept the answers or cut them off. He just kept repeating the same false claims over and over again and saying that he couldn't have possibly lost.
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Old 4th January 2021, 01:58 AM   #38
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Alarming in one sense, but maybe slightly reassuring, because in four years' time hopefully he won't even remember his name, let alone that he wanted a second term.

Dave
As evil and psychotic as Trump is, it's never really been about the man himself, but the way he's pulled the window of "acceptable" political behavior so far off kilter as to render our democratic system all but useless.
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Old 4th January 2021, 02:01 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Yes, I know Trump says her name.

What I'm saying is, there doesn't appear to actually be any independently-verified evidence that anyone named "Ruby Freeman" worked as a poll worker in Georgia on Election Day. The "identification" of a woman in a video often claimed to be evidence of fraud by Trumpists, was made by internet right-wing extremists and to my knowledge has never been corroborated either by actual journalists or by state election officials.
Well, so far no one has pointed out that no such person works in elections. Recently there was another attempt to get some traction on her name, with an Instagram post purporting to be from her that was determined to be fraudulent. Also people kept saying Ruby was the blond-braided lady in the State Farm video, which they now say to be her daughter. Trump is like, check it out, it's trending, it's all over the Internet. Yes, because his conspiracist supporters are putting it there.

They wonder why no one has asked her, without realizing they don't actually know. It's not enough for them that the FBI, GBI found no wrongdoing. They want access to the data so they manipulate it, spew more garbage online and then claim "it's all over the Internet."

TBF I don't know that it's racism; it may be enough for Trump to assume malfeasance simply because they are (probably) Democrats.

This is like asking for Barack Obama's birth certificate all over again. In southern parlance I keep wanting Ga. officials to say, "With all due respect, y'all go **** yourselves."
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Old 4th January 2021, 02:09 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Note: I wasn't sure how reliable that the website (Niemanlab) was... I couldn't find it on mediabias. However, the author (Ben Collins) does appear to write for NBC, so I am leaning in the direction that it is legitimate. (although admittedly I could be convinced otherwise, given evidence.)
It's extremely well-regarded, run by Harvard, with fellowships going back at least 50 years. The "lab" part I think refers to seeking a new model for reputable reporting in a much-changed media landscape. Robert Caro was a Nieman fellow in '66.
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