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Old 9th June 2021, 06:25 AM   #361
SuburbanTurkey
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The moral panic plows ahead:

Frenzied parents are protesting the Loudoun County School Board's insidious plan to tar all white people as racists by teaching critical race theory in schools.

Only problem is that there is no plan to teach CRT in the school district.

Quote:
At a school board meeting Tuesday, interim superintendent Scott A. Ziegler repeatedly has denied charges that Loudoun is teaching critical race theory to students. Instead, he has explained that the school system is about two years into racial equity work spurred initially by a pair of high-profile reports that found widespread racism was imperiling Black and Hispanic students’ progress in the county. In response, Loudoun produced a 22-page “Plan to Combat Systemic Racism” that called for developing alternative forms of discipline, hosting teacher trainings to foster “racial consciousness” and forbidding students from wearing the Confederate flag.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...67c_story.html

The intended effect of the right wing propaganda machine regarding critical race theory. A run-of-the-mill anti-discrimination policy is being met by unhinged lunatics shrieking from the the rooftops that Critical Race Theory is teaching their children to be social justice warriors.
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Old 9th June 2021, 06:43 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I'm pretty sure they were always okay with the Germans.
Nope Ben Franklin was against those swarthy Germans moving into properly white Pennsylvania.

“[T]he Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted.”

Ben Franklin

https://qz.com/904933/a-history-of-a...f-the-germans/
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Old 9th June 2021, 04:43 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Frenzied parents are protesting the Loudoun County School Board's insidious plan to tar all white people as racists by teaching critical race theory in schools.
Can we safely assume the "unhinged lunatics shrieking from the the rooftops" are wrong to assume CRT will tend to "tar all white people as racists," in your view?
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Old 9th June 2021, 04:56 PM   #364
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Ah yes, I see the problem with the Loudoun County School Board.

First, they tried to implement a race based student informant system that purposefully excluded the minority white population. Quick thinking and attentive parents no doubt saw what this vile racist scum was up to and raised their voices in protest forcing the school to recant their original idea and replace it with with one where the only criteria for membership in the secret police is ideological purity. This is like how Daesh tried to function among the ordinary Muslim population and here's hoping they meet the same fate as Daesh.

Second.....They spent half a million dollars on some stupid consultant. I could have told them how to run their diversity program, I could have done it in an email and I only would have charged them $10k $100k which would have left $400k open to hire tutors for the students who are falling behind.

But oh no...these geniuses had to spend huge cash on a company that used words and terms used in CRT whereas I would have done none of that. Had they hired me there would have been no confusion, no lawsuits and no newspaper stories.

Go parents go ! Fight the tyranny. Speak that truth to power. Down with Fascism !
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Old 9th June 2021, 07:03 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
.... Only problem is that there is no plan to teach CRT in the school district. ...
The only problem?
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Old 9th June 2021, 07:09 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Can we safely assume the "unhinged lunatics shrieking from the the rooftops" are wrong to assume CRT will tend to "tar all white people as racists," in your view?
I,lol get back to others later, but for this…

Critial Race Theory completely rejects race essentialism, so it certainly won’t say that “all white people are racists” inherently. They may, in theory, be taught to be racist in some way, but the question would become “how do we put an end to that?”
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Old 10th June 2021, 04:59 PM   #367
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Found this abstract, sadly the full paper is only readable to academics. The abstract however says it all...
Quote:

"Whiteness is a condition one first acquires and then one has—a malignant, parasitic-like condition to which “white” people have a particular susceptibility. The condition is foundational, generating characteristic ways of being in one’s body, in one’s mind, and in one’s world. Parasitic Whiteness renders its hosts’ appetites voracious, insatiable, and perverse. These deformed appetites particularly target nonwhite peoples. Once established, these appetites are nearly impossible to eliminate. Effective treatment consists of a combination of psychic and social-historical interventions. Such interventions can reasonably aim only to reshape Whiteness’s infiltrated appetites—to reduce their intensity, redistribute their aims, and occasionally turn those aims toward the work of reparation. When remembered and represented, the ravages wreaked by the chronic condition can function either as warning (“never again”) or as temptation (“great again”). Memorialization alone, therefore, is no guarantee against regression. There is not yet a permanent cure."

Abstract to 'On Having Whiteness' by Douglas Moss, published in The Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, April 2021.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....30651211008507
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Old 10th June 2021, 05:11 PM   #368
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Wonder if "whiteness" will make the DSM-6.
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Old 10th June 2021, 05:34 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I don't think your logic holds up, Mumbles. It would imply that anyone who objects to me not explicitly using "some/most/not-all" in discussions about say, male violence, are actually sexists who don't deserve any attention. It's the same fallacious argument used by DiAngelo: either you admit you're a racist, or you're just too fragile to admit that you're a racist. There is no possible option for not being a racist. It's an approach that lacks reason and logic, and is fundamentally generalizing a negative stereotype onto a whole group of people, on the basis of nothing at all except their skin color.
"Fragile" is likely the better term than "sexist". Honestly, I rarely care when a woman says "men are pigs" - I'm likely to say "We, we are", because, you know, I've been around enough men to get it Women usually add "Oh, I don't mean all men." on their own. No biggie. If a person's dead serious about meaning *all* men, in the US, I mostly just pity them.

(and of course, when a woman explicitly says "I don't mean all, so don't whine that to me" and then goes off about "men", then they've set their terms already, and there's not much to say)
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Old 10th June 2021, 07:16 PM   #370
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If I noticed that Dr. Donald Moss was about to get in the way of Dr. Aruna Khilanani I might be a little bit hesitant to warn him of the danger.

Would this make me a bad person ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...condition.html
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Old 11th June 2021, 01:30 AM   #371
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Sorry for the late reply, bruh. THis one's a bit more complicated than the rest, and I'm...content enough to not really feel like arguing.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Or maybe not at all. You may find the perfect fit where the atheists outnumber the religious and tell to keep that stuff out of the office.
I've never really heard of a majority-white company where this sort of thing doesn't show up often - particularly not in corporate.

(Incidentally, black women in particular are often desperate to start their own businesses)

Quote:
OK what and who bothers you is your business.

In this day age where people are getting sidelined for joke tweets they made when they were teenagers I'd expect the same sort of disdain heaped anyone who made a blanket condemnation like Khilanani did, not a defense.
For reference, I assume we agree that firing people for 10-year-old tweets is pretty absurd, especially given that Twitter 2011 was *very* different than Twitter 2021. But that sort of public dogpiling is both rare and mostly random.

That's not to say I'd recommend saying this sort of thing in public - the shrieking panic, particularly among republicans, is completely predictable. Those guys couldn't even tolerate the 1619 project, they the people being described, not the people you tell this to.

Quote:
Not being able to hold your tongue is bad enough but insisting that those words be made public is a special type of hate speech. If you're frustrated with white people, then say that. If your really really frustrated with white people, then say it in all caps but expressing fantasies about racially motivated homicide is something I'd be expecting from a white hooded klan member.
Nah, the latte group just does it, and typically for far less - remember, the guys that shot Trayvon Martin and Ahmaud Aubrey, along with many others, did it because their victims were just doing normal things outside.

Quote:
Maybe, maybe not I'll take your word for it because it's so fuzzy that I doubt the people who wrote it really know what it means. Given that Khilanani has more than a passing familiarity with CRT and openly talks about it I can see why parents would be up in arms about CRT being introduces into schools.
It really outright rejects the idea of race as something essential, genetic, or describing anything outside of a handful of superficial traits. That's the point, there's literally no internal reason that explains the racial wealth gap in the US for example. Nor is there any innate brute strength that lets black people dominate basketball, any more than innate jewish craftiness allowed them to dominate the port earlier. That's just not how that works.

So, you have to find external explanations. For example, home appraisers that drastically undervalue houses owned by black people.

As for why parents are "up in arms" you can blame Christopher Rufo, who had readily acknowledged that he wanted to associate the term with whatever negative story he made up, James Lindsay, who is currently spewing the White Genocide Nazi wannabe conspiracy theory, and Toupee Fiasco, the white nationalist dullard former president. The last one was, by far, the most important. Probably some help from the likes of Fox News, which is basically a white power tv network now.

Quote:
Suppose she gave that talk, or a variation on it to high or middle schoolers ? Suppose she was unable to hold her tongue with that audience ? Those school trauma counselors would be raking in the overtime.
Well, she didn't, she almost certainly could, and they'd hav no problem, in order.

Quote:
And yes, I'm aware that some/all of the schools these parents are protesting with regard to CRT and specifically saying that they're NOT teaching CRT but the cat's out of the bag with CRT now and it's entered the popular lexicon.
The problem is they're talking nonsense, like the anti-maskers at last year's town halls. They're panicked and saying nonsense like "the 1619 project means that all white people are evil and it's time for us to be replaced", style crap. If they don't want to end up in some sort of racist street fight, they're going to have to settle down.
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Old 11th June 2021, 05:11 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Found this abstract, sadly the full paper is only readable to academics. The abstract however says it all...



Abstract to 'On Having Whiteness' by Douglas Moss, published in The Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association, April 2021.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....30651211008507
Is the peer review revealing at all?
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Old 12th June 2021, 09:02 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Critial Race Theory completely rejects race essentialism, so it certainly won’t say that “all white people are racists” inherently. They may, in theory, be taught to be racist in some way, but the question would become “how do we put an end to that?”
My understanding, based on spending several weeks (OK, minutes) thoroughly studying (OK, hastily skimming) articles on Critical Theory is that every person is a member of a ("socially constructed") group and adopts the attitudes and norms of that group either explicitly or implicitly. Socially, a person does not function independently of the group that they are a member of, so if they are a member of the dominant group that is oppressing the other groups then they are complicit in that oppression, even if they do not view themselves as participating in that oppression since oppression is largely performed non-overtly, primarily through laws and policies that don't necessarily appear to be biased at face value.
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Old 13th June 2021, 08:35 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Sorry for the late reply, bruh. THis one's a bit more complicated than the rest, and I'm...content enough to not really feel like arguing.

I've never really heard of a majority-white company where this sort of thing doesn't show up often - particularly not in corporate.

(Incidentally, black women in particular are often desperate to start their own businesses)
I'll have to take your word on this but in the last 30 years of my working life it's been all about the anti racism and diversity that started in the late 1980s with political correctness. I' haven't been in a working environment where racism or sexism would be tolerated. Over on the cancel culture thread we had an example of a corporation ( Apple ) who's employees demanded the firing of a newly hired executive who wrote a passage in a work of fiction ( Chaos Monkeys ) that the employees found offensive. Maybe it;s dependent on industry.

Quote:
For reference, I assume we agree that firing people for 10-year-old tweets is pretty absurd, especially given that Twitter 2011 was *very* different than Twitter 2021. But that sort of public dogpiling is both rare and mostly random.
Agreed, but we constantly see news stories about it running across our feeds.

Quote:
That's not to say I'd recommend saying this sort of thing in public - the shrieking panic, particularly among republicans, is completely predictable. Those guys couldn't even tolerate the 1619 project, they the people being described, not the people you tell this to.
Why dwell on teaching something as controversial as The 1610 Project ? If a school want's to teach slavery in the context of American history then teach it. I doubt anybody, anywhere is trying to deny slavery happened.

Aside: Did you ever watch that series, Turn:Washington's Spies ? Interestingly that, although the colonists had black slaves throughout the revolution, at the end of the last episode when they're wrapping up all the stories of the characters they openly state that Washington screwed the slaves.

If a school want's to teach slavery from a global history perspective, that might be even better that simply focusing on the USA. Not as politically desirable to some activists for sure but it's important that the topic be covered from a global perspective. From,say, Roman, through the Barbary, through Indigenous, through the Atlantic, and right up to modern day North Korean expat workers.

Quote:
It really outright rejects the idea of race as something essential, genetic, or describing anything outside of a handful of superficial traits. That's the point, there's literally no internal reason that explains the racial wealth gap in the US for example. Nor is there any innate brute strength that lets black people dominate basketball, any more than innate jewish craftiness allowed them to dominate the port earlier. That's just not how that works.
Agreed.

Quote:
So, you have to find external explanations. For example, home appraisers that drastically undervalue houses owned by black people.
Could be racism, could be incompetence. I'm really hoping that the companies who those appraisers work for are taking a close look at those employees work habits.
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Old 14th June 2021, 05:44 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I'll have to take your word on this but in the last 30 years of my working life it's been all about the anti racism and diversity that started in the late 1980s with political correctness. I' haven't been in a working environment where racism or sexism would be tolerated. Over on the cancel culture thread we had an example of a corporation ( Apple ) who's employees demanded the firing of a newly hired executive who wrote a passage in a work of fiction ( Chaos Monkeys ) that the employees found offensive. Maybe it;s dependent on industry.
I've known people in a few fields - tech, food service (office-level, so accounting and the like), retail (same - upper-level stuff) - it's the same for everyone, albeit with a fe notoriously bad places (Google and Facebook stand out in tech-related industries)

Quote:
Agreed, but we constantly see news stories about it running across our feeds.
Eh...I hear them on occasion - not even monthly, albeit with a few clustered near college acceptances, and those are closer than a decade.

Quote:
Why dwell on teaching something as controversial as The 1610 Project ? If a school want's to teach slavery in the context of American history then teach it. I doubt anybody, anywhere is trying to deny slavery happened.
Well, some people desperately want to deny the fundamental nature of what chattel slavery was, how laws were used to recreate slavery under the Black Codes and Jim Crow, the nature of Jim Crow and the various protest movements that sprung up under it, etc. Just look at the crap in recent Louisiana textbooks in this twitter thread. This is why a few are enraged by, among many other issues, the Black National Anthem, Junteteenth, commemorating the Tulsa Massacre, payments to the Central Park 5 (wait, that's barely "history"), and profoundly altering the views of MLK Jr.

But to put that aside, there's not much actual controversy to the 1619 project. Mostly people objected to one sentence, which some historians also objected to. The vast majority of essays, on medical racism, environmental issues, the Highway system being designed in part to promote segregation, and so forth, are taken from the flat statements of people involved.

The main reason people are so angry about it, aside from the "1619 project/CRT" moral panic, is because a full accounting of racism in the US would get their kids to say "Oh *that's* why the US is so screwed up on these lines. Got it." And whether it's people who love their delusions of how everyone got along until the commies/MLK/Obama/BLM appeared and divided the races, or how Amurica's a meritocracy and "the blacks" are just lazy and hate learning and jobs (while somehow being wildly violent and stealing good jobs and college spots) or the Mercers and Kochs and so on realizing that this would mean everyone would turn their eyes on their ultrarich behinds, it would be bad for them.

Quote:
Aside: Did you ever watch that series, Turn:Washington's Spies ? Interestingly that, although the colonists had black slaves throughout the revolution, at the end of the last episode when they're wrapping up all the stories of the characters they openly state that Washington screwed the slaves.
Nope, but it sounds about right. I tend towards post-civil war history here - I'm ultimately still interested in my family and the areas they've lived in, and *any* part of US history is extraordinarily complex when you dive into it.

Quote:
If a school want's to teach slavery from a global history perspective, that might be even better that simply focusing on the USA. Not as politically desirable to some activists for sure but it's important that the topic be covered from a global perspective. From,say, Roman, through the Barbary, through Indigenous, through the Atlantic, and right up to modern day North Korean expat workers.
This'd be great - as a module in a world history class. 1619 project is a good study of racism in America, both in history and today, and thus is useful in both social studies and US history classes.

Quote:
Could be racism, could be incompetence. I'm really hoping that the companies who those appraisers work for are taking a close look at those employees work habits.
Thing is, when it happens with one appraiser after another, in one part of the country after another, it eventually becomes reasonable to say "Maybe it's national appraising standards or something that's actually at fault here" instead of "maybe the vast majority of appraisers are active white supremacists. After all, many doctors believe that black people are more resistant to pain than white people because it was literally written in the books they studied.
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Old 14th June 2021, 07:39 AM   #376
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Moral panic machine firing on all cylinders.

Quote:
A conservative group even suggested outfitting teachers with body cameras to ensure they aren’t indoctrinating children with such lessons.

“You guys have a serious problem with activist teachers pushing politics in the classroom, and there’s no place for it, especially for our fifth graders,” Karen England, Nevada Family Alliance executive director, told Washoe County School District trustees Tuesday.
https://apnews.com/article/governmen...347b7f4a203a52
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Old 14th June 2021, 08:50 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
I've known people in a few fields - tech, food service (office-level, so accounting and the like), retail (same - upper-level stuff) - it's the same for everyone, albeit with a fe notoriously bad places (Google and Facebook stand out in tech-related industries)
Well I'll just take your word for it again. It just seems so bizarre, decades of diversity and cultural sensitivity training and the message still isn't getting through. Maybe white who claim to be against racism are somewhat akin to environmentalists and somewhat adverse to practicing what they preach or they're just a very vocal tiny minority.

Quote:
Well, some people desperately want to deny the fundamental nature of what chattel slavery was, how laws were used to recreate slavery under the Black Codes and Jim Crow, the nature of Jim Crow and the various protest movements that sprung up under it, etc. Just look at the crap in recent Louisiana textbooks in this twitter thread. This is why a few are enraged by, among many other issues, the Black National Anthem, Junteteenth, commemorating the Tulsa Massacre, payments to the Central Park 5 (wait, that's barely "history"), and profoundly altering the views of MLK Jr.
I sure won't deny that there's people ( of all races ) wanting to gloss over their history because, by today's standards, it's rather embarrassing. That's no excuse for the school system to sweep it under the rug though. Taking Kate as an example, it could be argued that simply present her story is an attempt to get the reader to sympathize with her, Oh that poor women ! OTOH, it's history, it's what happened and whether the reader responds with boo hoo, poor woman's life was ruined when she found out she couldn't own people anymore would be the more accurate ( in today's context ) to teach the moral of that story.

This was Kate's culture at the time and in this day and age when we're being asked to respect ancient cultures and their crappy traditions eg forced marriage, FGM, it doesn't do anybody any good to sweep them under the rug and pretend those stories never happened.

There always has been, and always will be moral panics. The trick is to not give the panicked anything to work with. Like the denial of teaching CRT, school boards could just come out and say that they're simply not teaching the 1619 project. Throw the panicked a few bones by including Kate's story and like religion, strive to keep identity politics out of the classroom.

Quote:
Thing is, when it happens with one appraiser after another, in one part of the country after another......
I've only seen a couple of these stories, but I haven't been actively looking for them. What a stupid way to put your professional reputation on the line. a large part of a real estate appraisal is based on the recent sale of comparable and if your appraisal comes out with a valuation that's significant different from those comparables then that appraiser is risking an awful lot just to say "I don't like the occupants". I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I suspect there may be more to the story that we read about in the media.
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Old 14th June 2021, 08:53 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Moral panic machine firing on all cylinders.



https://apnews.com/article/governmen...347b7f4a203a52
That might not be a bad idea really. The bodycam is stupid but a camera in the classroom so a parent could learn alongside their child and review lessons taught in class that day might not be a bad idea.

My kid's daycare had a live camera so we could see what was going on, why not the same thing in elementary schools ?
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Old 15th June 2021, 09:19 AM   #379
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As an aside and probably off topic but since this revolves around schools....

My kid's high school has banned the playing of hangman. Apparently it's racist due to things that happened in another country, thousands of miles away and almost 100 years ago.

Who knew that when we were playing that game when we were kids that we were indulging in unconscious racism and symbolically executing blacks ? Wait, what, did I just write that ?
There must have been something in that COVID vaccine.

Anyways...the kids are allowed to play guillotine because only white people died by that method of execution.
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Old 15th June 2021, 09:41 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
As an aside and probably off topic but since this revolves around schools....

My kid's high school has banned the playing of hangman. Apparently it's racist due to things that happened in another country, thousands of miles away and almost 100 years ago.

Who knew that when we were playing that game when we were kids that we were indulging in unconscious racism and symbolically executing blacks ? Wait, what, did I just write that ?
There must have been something in that COVID vaccine.

Anyways...the kids are allowed to play guillotine because only white people died by that method of execution.
Have no fear, the guillotine was used to execute plenty of Algerians during France's bloody history as a colonial power.
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Old 15th June 2021, 10:12 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Have no fear, the guillotine was used to execute plenty of Algerians during France's bloody history as a colonial power.
Holy crap ! I never thought of that. I shall dash of a sternly worded email to the school with the suggestion that instead of playing these execution games, they implement one where for every letter guessed correctly, the guesser gets another colour on the diversity rainbow instead.

I am SJW. Hear me roar.
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Old 15th June 2021, 01:02 PM   #382
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Thought about posting this article in a new thread, but I suppose it's close enough to CRT to merit discussion here:

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Whiteness is a condition one first acquires and then one*has-a malignant, parasitic-like condition to which "white" people have a particular susceptibility. The condition is foundational, generating characteristic ways of being in one's body, in one's mind, and in one's world. Parasitic Whiteness renders its hosts' appetites voracious, insatiable, and perverse. These deformed appetites particularly target nonwhite peoples. Once established, these appetites are nearly impossible to eliminate. Effective treatment consists of a combination of psychic and social-historical interventions. Such interventions can reasonably aim only to reshape Whiteness's infiltrated appetites-to reduce their intensity, redistribute their aims, and occasionally turn those aims toward the work of reparation. When remembered and represented, the ravages wreaked by the chronic condition can function either as warning ("never again") or as temptation ("great again"). Memorialization alone, therefore, is no guarantee against regression. There is not yet a permanent cure.
I suppose the most obvious question is how can scientifically minded people know if someone is suffering from "Whiteness" as conceived here? My next question would be: Who is best qualified to diagnose and treat this condition?
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Old 15th June 2021, 04:33 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Thought about posting this article in a new thread, but I suppose it's close enough to CRT to merit discussion here:



I suppose the most obvious question is how can scientifically minded people know if someone is suffering from "Whiteness" as conceived here? My next question would be: Who is best qualified to diagnose and treat this condition?
It's already been posted but to answer your questions.

The condition would be diagnosed by people who actually understand what that quote actually means. I have no idea what this guy is on about but it's got a real white people suck vibe to it so, presumably, it could be treated by both professional and lay practitioners in anti-whiteness therapy.

Speaking of

I've been working on a treatment of my own. It's still at the design stage but a rough outline is a Logan's Run type apparatus where self hating white people can show up, pay me a bunch of money and ceremonially get themselves cured of their toxic whiteness. I'm thinking television, livestream and a cheering studio audience.

I'm kind of stuck on the actual mechanics and haven't gotten much past a harness, a hoist and a rocket launcher but I'm confident the geniuses at the major networks will help me brainstorm this and soon as they find the time to answer my emails.
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Old 15th June 2021, 08:29 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Thought about posting this article in a new thread, but I suppose it's close enough to CRT to merit discussion here:



I suppose the most obvious question is how can scientifically minded people know if someone is suffering from "Whiteness" as conceived here? My next question would be: Who is best qualified to diagnose and treat this condition?
Could a tanning lamp be used to treat a mild condition?

Is CRT a manifestation of Tocqueville's Paradox?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocqueville_effect
Quote:
The hatred that men bear to privilege increases in proportion as privileges become fewer and less considerable...
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Old 15th June 2021, 09:20 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Thought about posting this article in a new thread, but I suppose it's close enough to CRT to merit discussion here:



I suppose the most obvious question is how can scientifically minded people know if someone is suffering from "Whiteness" as conceived here? My next question would be: Who is best qualified to diagnose and treat this condition?
The Conclusion

Quote:
Concluding Note

Where to stand? On what stable platform? To turn Whiteness into an object for thought one must first look for a point of stillness. This point actually does not exist. After all, Whiteness, in its mature form, generates a volatile totality from which there is no clear exit, no clear escape. To pursue that exit, to hope for even temporary escape—of getting outside and looking back, of seeing where you seem to have been—depends, I think, on a kind of conceptual mobility, a willingness to use metaphors and similes for only as long as they serve, and then to move on. For me, here, the most important of those metaphors have been “parasite,” “mapping,” and “verticality.” Each seemed to me both stable and elastic, capable of simultaneously supporting thought and providing a jumping-off point whenever that support felt exhausted. And, of course, psychoanalysis provides something other than similes and metaphors. It provides a reliable theoretical/technical structure, one we can count on, one that, in spite of its limitations, will hold up—has held up—as we all try to achieve the requisite conceptual, emotional, and personal nimbleness to grapple with the Whiteness that, whoever we are, infiltrates our interior and exterior surround.

Faculty, New York Psychoanalytic Institute; co-founder of the Green Gang, a four-person collective working with climate change denial and the relation between the human and the natural worlds; Chair, Program Committee, American Psychoanalytic Association.

Submission for publication March16, 2020.
It only has four references.

Quote:
References
Cep, C. (2020). The long war against slavery: Review of Vincent Brown, Tacky’s Revolt: The Story of an Atlantic Slave War. The New Yorker, January 20.

Freud, S. (1915). Instincts and their vicissitudes. Standard Edition 14:117–140.

Harris, C. (1993). Whiteness as property. Harvard Law Review 106:1707–1791.

Nixon, R. (2011). Slow Violence and the Environmentalism of the Poor, Cambridge: Harvard University Press.
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Old 15th June 2021, 09:59 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That might not be a bad idea really. The bodycam is stupid but a camera in the classroom so a parent could learn alongside their child and review lessons taught in class that day might not be a bad idea.

My kid's daycare had a live camera so we could see what was going on, why not the same thing in elementary schools ?

Sounded good when I first read it, but I wonder if it would be a nightmare of parent complaints about every little thing.

- why are you picking on my kid?
- why didn't my kid get called to answer a question?
- why did my kid get called so many times to answer?
- I'm not sure I like my child's seating position.
- long division is racist

Bodycam sounds better - or equally bad maybe - but it's your expense.
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Old 16th June 2021, 04:01 AM   #387
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A paper by a former Russian scientist living in the United States on the dangers of politicizing science...


Quote:
Just as in Soviet times, the [Western] censorship is being justified by the greater good. Whereas in 1950, the greater good was advancing the World Revolution (in the USSR; in the USA the greater good meant fighting Communism), in 2021 the greater good is “Social Justice” (the capitalization is important: “Social Justice” is a specific ideology, with goals that have little in common with what lower-case “social justice” means in plain English). As in the USSR, the censorship is enthusiastically imposed also from the bottom, by members of the scientific community, whose motives vary from naive idealism to cynical power-grabbing.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021...pclett.1c01475
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Old 16th June 2021, 08:56 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Sounded good when I first read it, but I wonder if it would be a nightmare of parent complaints about every little thing.

- why are you picking on my kid?
- why didn't my kid get called to answer a question?
- why did my kid get called so many times to answer?
- I'm not sure I like my child's seating position.
- long division is racist

Bodycam sounds better - or equally bad maybe - but it's your expense.
Oh yea, all those complaints would happen for sure but it would help ease the minds of parents who are freaking out about CRT being taught in classrooms and as a bonus, it would put the kids who are parroting SJW dogma in the classroom into a bit of a spotlight.

I talked briefly about those kids upthread, they're few and far between but very vocal. The other kids might not want to make waves and complain however a parent who witness this behaviour on camera might want to raise such distractions with the school.

As a society we seem to have developed a love for surveillance systems so I can't see there really being any privacy issues with implementing such a system.
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Old 16th June 2021, 10:19 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Well I'll just take your word for it again. It just seems so bizarre, decades of diversity and cultural sensitivity training and the message still isn't getting through. Maybe white who claim to be against racism are somewhat akin to environmentalists and somewhat adverse to practicing what they preach or they're just a very vocal tiny minority.
It's been a relatively small number that get outright and overt about it (seen that to, and was inexplicably blamed by these people when they, say, fell off a stool they were standing on top of - at those points even other people ar like "nope, that was your fault" though.). The problems are more in being obviously overlooked and ignored, moving towards condescension, and as I said before, the stuff like people freaking out over minor changes in body language like not smiling enough, speaking with too low of a pitch, and so on.

(Again, I'm skeptical of these "diversity" courses in general.

Quote:
I sure won't deny that there's people ( of all races ) wanting to gloss over their history because, by today's standards, it's rather embarrassing. That's no excuse for the school system to sweep it under the rug though. Taking Kate as an example, it could be argued that simply present her story is an attempt to get the reader to sympathize with her, Oh that poor women ! OTOH, it's history, it's what happened and whether the reader responds with boo hoo, poor woman's life was ruined when she found out she couldn't own people anymore would be the more accurate ( in today's context ) to teach the moral of that story.
Thing is, if they drop the sympathy, there are some key points in her story. Sending most of her slaves to Texas? Yeah, a lot of slavers did that because they saw it as a place the Union wouldn't get to, and yeah of course the enslaved would often eagerly aid the Union against their enslavers. Her "ambivalent" attitude? Easy to do when you're allowed to at least keep your land and strong-arm the people you used to enslave to work for you under penalty of law.

The needed change? Tell it from the perspective of one of the people she enslaved.

There always has been, and always will be moral panics. The trick is to not give the panicked anything to work with.
Quote:
Like the denial of teaching CRT, school boards could just come out and say that they're simply not teaching the 1619 project. Throw the panicked a few bones by including Kate's story and like religion, strive to keep identity politics out of the classroom.
The problem with moral panics is that they're unpredictable - instead of rationality, they go for lizard-brain responses. There's no way they could have predicted that a pandemic would leave people sitting at home watching some cop smother a black guy for 9-1/2 minutes, and then the cop would be found guilty after a massive multinational wave of protests , police riots, and rightwing murders. And, as far as I can tell, it was Chauvin being correctly found guilty that kicked off this panic, just as it was Obama's presidency that led to people electing someone as openly racist and clownishly unqualified as Orange Badman. That's how you get Obama/CRT "dividing the races" or "punishing all the white people", and other such nonsense opinions. When you think about it, it's a wildy racist, narcissistic, and...um, fragile view of themselves and their children.

Same way you end up with people swearing a COVID-19 vaccine made them magnetic, and "proving" it by sticking brass keys to their bodies. That's not magnetic, that's just not showering.

(And again, the 1619 project definitely belongs in US history classes, particularly if the textbooks try to entirely leave out nonwhite people, which is one of the hallmarks of US-style racism)

Quote:
I've only seen a couple of these stories, but I haven't been actively looking for them. What a stupid way to put your professional reputation on the line. a large part of a real estate appraisal is based on the recent sale of comparable and if your appraisal comes out with a valuation that's significant different from those comparables then that appraiser is risking an awful lot just to say "I don't like the occupants". I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I suspect there may be more to the story that we read about in the media.
Well, yes, my entire point is that we can reasonably say "there's something here far beyond just KKKish villainy." Much like many doctors think that black people have a much higher pain tolerance because their textbooks literally said so, you can understand how decades oif denying loans to black people, people buying homes from black people, people buying homes in black neighborhoods - which was federal policy for decades - would leave behind a distinct view that "black -owned homes are just worth less for some reason."

As one reasonable explanation - could be something else.
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Old 16th June 2021, 03:52 PM   #390
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An unexpected consequence of 'pop' CRT interacting with the post-Greta Thunburg environmentalist movement. The story is from The Guardian...


Quote:
A large part of New Zealand’s School Strike 4 Climate movement has formally disbanded, saying it had been racist and insufficiently responsive to activists of colour.

In a Facebook post, the movement’s chapter in Auckland said it had “avoided, ignored and tokenised BIPOC [Black, Indigenous and people of colour] voices and demands” and that it had been “a racist, white-dominated space”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...m-and-disbands
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Old 17th June 2021, 04:23 AM   #391
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Fox News takes a break from beating the drum on Critical Race Theory to have Charles Murray come on and make arguments that are indistinguishable from what you might read on Stormfront.

Quote:
Murray: "Entry into certain kinds of occupations is limited, because the cognitive demands of those occupations mean that a whole lot of more white people qualify than black people, and even a higher proportion of Asian people qualify than white people."
https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status...90640708014081

Systematic racism isn't real, you see. White people are just on top because we're genetically superior.
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Old 17th June 2021, 04:51 AM   #392
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Wouldn't CRT predict the same result based on systemically racist access to better nutrition, higher quality primary schools and other such environmental factors?
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Old 17th June 2021, 05:57 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's been a relatively small number that get outright and overt about it (seen that to, and was inexplicably blamed by these people when they, say, fell off a stool they were standing on top of - at those points even other people ar like "nope, that was your fault" though.). The problems are more in being obviously overlooked and ignored, moving towards condescension, and as I said before, the stuff like people freaking out over minor changes in body language like not smiling enough, speaking with too low of a pitch, and so on.

(Again, I'm skeptical of these "diversity" courses in general.
This is a pretty far cry from the original analogy using religious people trying to convert you and if we're talking interpersonal office politics and the thousands of things that can effect working/personal relationships then I agree 100% that racism could definitely be in play here. Diversity training although useful for explaining why you can't display your Lynard Skynard flag won't be able to touch this.

Quote:
Thing is, if they drop the sympathy, there are some key points in her story. Sending most of her slaves to Texas? Yeah, a lot of slavers did that because they saw it as a place the Union wouldn't get to, and yeah of course the enslaved would often eagerly aid the Union against their enslavers. Her "ambivalent" attitude? Easy to do when you're allowed to at least keep your land and strong-arm the people you used to enslave to work for you under penalty of law.

The needed change? Tell it from the perspective of one of the people she enslaved.
It's just one tiny story and could be used as a springboard to present the perspective of the enslaved. 1 % of the time spent on Kate, the other 99% spent on the enslaved. What is to stop a teacher from presenting the story in the way that you just critiqued it ? Nothing, and by leaving it in the textbook, those concerned parents will be able to see that they're not being excluded under CRT.

Quote:
The problem with moral panics is that they're unpredictable
Agreed, we're not dealing with rationality here. It's total feels before reals, like religion is. Remember all those great prediction about how the Internet is going to bring the equivalent of The Library at Alexandria to the peoples fingertips, how having access to truthful information is going to transform society in unimaginable ways ? Well, oops, those predictions were a little off.

Quote:
Well, yes, my entire point is that we can reasonably say "there's something here far beyond just KKKish villainy." Much like many doctors think that black people have a much higher pain tolerance because their textbooks literally said so, you can understand how decades oif denying loans to black people, people buying homes from black people, people buying homes in black neighborhoods - which was federal policy for decades - would leave behind a distinct view that "black -owned homes are just worth less for some reason."

As one reasonable explanation - could be something else.
I had a look at the pain issue and I couldn't find any references to increased pain tolerance being in textbooks, that doesn't mean I'm saying it didn't happen. I found a bunch of references to work done on this circa 2016 and I'm rather disappointed that the researchers didn't ask the medical students how they came to this conclusion. It's not an easy idea to rationalize like the myth that black people don't burn in the sun. One possibility could be a perception that black people are stronger than white people ?

I see your point on the appraisers, I won't deny it's validity and if that's the case then a paragraph in the how-to-be-an-appraiser textbook and course should suffice to help prospective appraisers avoid this unconscious inaccurate assumption and will be a lot more effective in correcting this than calling them racists will.
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Old 17th June 2021, 06:51 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
An unexpected consequence of 'pop' CRT interacting with the post-Greta Thunburg environmentalist movement. The story is from The Guardian...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...m-and-disbands
That was truly SPECTACULAR ! We're talking Tunguska Event level spectacular here !

Not only did the Auckland chapter completely explode they tried to take down the rest of the NZ climate strikers with them and as a finale, even stated "We fully discourage any future and current Pākehā-led groups from occupying the space we leave behind."

That is some professional level CRT in action right there.

No mention of this on Thunberg's Twitter feed, which is kind of odd. Or maybe it's not, kind of hard to tell with her but too many white people trying to save the planet especially in the name of her movement is certainly worth noting.

As an aside, we've got this war in the woods thing going on here with trying to save ancient trees. One of the major organizers is my next door neighbour and he told me that since the whole issue is wrapped up in identity politics ( indigenous vs indigenous ) that white people are coming up to him and asking if it's safe to actually take a side in this.
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Old 17th June 2021, 07:02 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Wouldn't CRT predict the same result based on systemically racist access to better nutrition, higher quality primary schools and other such environmental factors?
How would I know?

I imagine most serious academics wouldn't bother engaging seriously with any conclusions made by Murray given his history of hawking junk science.
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Old 17th June 2021, 07:31 AM   #396
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Right wing operatives astroturfing a moral panic to fire up the base over pointless culture war issues. A tried-and- true tactic for when the right wing is out of power.

Quote:
Nearly a dozen of the Fox News guests the network has presented as concerned parents or educators who oppose the teaching of so-called “critical race theory” in schools also have day jobs as Republican strategists, conservative think-tankers, or right-wing media personalities, according to a Media Matters review.
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-new...-gop-activists
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Old 17th June 2021, 08:56 AM   #397
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There's a good discussion of this on the latest Dispatch podcast.
https://thedispatch.com/about?sort=p...YaAurJEALw_wcB

A bunch of conservatives that left the GOP over the last 4 years.
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Old 17th June 2021, 09:13 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I imagine most serious academics wouldn't bother engaging seriously with any conclusions made by Murray given his history of hawking junk science.
Thankfully we don't have too many of those here. Still not clear on what you think is wrong with his conclusion, though. It seems fairly self-evident that if a society were to systematically deprive one group (e.g. those living in the bottom quintile of household income) of favorable educational, nutritional, and environmental conditions which are otherwise commonplace then we'd expect those thus deprived to fare comparatively poorly on college entrance exams and various other qualifying criteria required to enter the sort of cognitively demanding professions Murray was talking about.
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Old 17th June 2021, 09:43 AM   #399
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Someone pointed out the irony that there is now a Federally mandated holiday that a lot of states won't be able to talk about why it exists.
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Old 17th June 2021, 09:56 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Someone pointed out the irony that there is now a Federally mandated holiday that a lot of states won't be able to talk about why it exists.
Can you point to a specific state law which would forbid teaching anything historically true about JuneteenthWP?
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