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Tags britney spears , celebrity incidents , celebrity issues

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Old 5th July 2021, 02:04 PM   #1
Bob001
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Free Britney!

There doesn't seem to be a thread about Britney Spears' situation. I've never been a fan, as I've never been a 13-year-old girl, but her situation raises legitimate questions about how people can lose their rights to a conservatorship and be unable to regain them. She's been exploited by her family since she was a young teen-age star, and she is now a 39-year-old mother of two whose life has been controlled entirely by her father for 13 years. It could probably happen to any of us if we had something that somebody else wanted.
Quote:
Since the establishment of Spears’s conservatorship, she has released four albums, headlined a global tour that grossed a hundred and thirty-one million dollars, and performed for four years in a hit Las Vegas residency. Yet her conservators, who include her father, Jamie Spears, have controlled her spending, communications, and personal decisions.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/ameri...ship-nightmare

And some conservatorships are outright criminal rackets.
Quote:
In the United States, a million and a half adults are under the care of guardians, either family members or professionals, who control some two hundred and seventy-three billion dollars in assets, according to an auditor for the guardianship fraud program in Palm Beach County. Little is known about the outcome of these arrangements, because states do not keep complete figures on guardianship cases—statutes vary widely—and, in most jurisdictions, the court records are sealed.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...e-their-rights
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Old 5th July 2021, 02:17 PM   #2
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Yeah, she definitely had a rough patch - and who can blame her, given the intense pressure and scrutiny she was under - but I find it hard to believe that she's too mentally impaired to, for example, decide for herself whether or not she can get pregnant.

In fact, I find it very difficult to believe that she needs any kind of guardianship, let alone one as strict as she is under, but I do have to concede that there may be factors of which I, as a member of the public, am unaware. But from what I do know - and I have vaguely followed this story for a few years now - I see no reason for it at all.
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Old 5th July 2021, 02:48 PM   #3
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It’s funny, my assumption on the matter would be the conservatorship had been based heavily on mostly public perception. I’m sure every one of us knows a person in a much worse position or serious mental illness than her that still retains a lot more decision making power.

I think the whole thing is bizarre and I feel very badly for her.
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Old 5th July 2021, 02:48 PM   #4
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AIUI - and I am open to correction - she was diagnosed with an affective mood disorder, which used to be know as bipolar. Her acting erratically at that stage of her life was not just someone 'going wild' or, 'going through a phase'. Bipolar can be a frightening illness. A good friend of mine had this and in her so-called 'manic phase' she'd go on wildly extravagant shopping sprees and do things like order four different meals all at once. She was a joy to be with when she was like this and we had great fun out and about; such a mood is highly infectious. However, she also had dangerously low suicidal moods - she had been in hospital several times after slashing her wrists - it is a serious condition. She's on lithium for life. I feel desperately sorry for Britney but she likely needs someone to help and support her. I doesn't need to be her father.

The depiction of the character 'Baby Face' Nelson in the film 'O Brother, Where art thou?'* a notorious bank robber, epitomises the manic phase of this syndrome really well.

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*Whilst he was portrayed in the film as such, the reality might have been different.

Quote:
O Brother, Where Art Thou?, a 2000 film featuring Michael Badalucco as Nelson. He is portrayed as working mostly alone, until meeting up with the main characters and having them along as he robs the next bank in quick succession to break a record. He is played as having a "thrill-seeking personality," what would later be called manic-depressive and now known as bipolar. After the excitement of the robbery is over he becomes depressed, leaves his share of the money and wanders off alone. When he last appears he is being taken by an angry mob to meet his death in the electric chair. The film is set in Mississippi in 1937, three years after the real Nelson's death.
wiki

It struck me at the time that Britney Spears' behaviour was very high risk in terms of possible harm to herself.
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Old 5th July 2021, 02:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
AIUI - and I am open to correction - she was diagnosed with an affective mood disorder, which used to be know as bipolar. Her acting erratically at that stage of her life was not just someone 'going wild' or, 'going through a phase'. Bipolar can be a frightening illness. A good friend of mine had this and in her so-called 'manic phase' she'd go on wildly extravagant shopping sprees and do things like order four different meals all at once. She was a joy to be with when she was like this and we had great fun out and about; such a mood is highly infectious. However, she also had dangerously low suicidal moods - she had been in hospital several times after slashing her wrists - it is a serious condition. She's on lithium for life. I feel desperately sorry for Britney but she likely needs someone to help and support her. I doesn't need to be her father.
.....
Most people with mental illness, whether bipolar disorder or something else, are treated without losing all of their rights forever. If she was in extreme distress -- about which there seems to be some dispute -- she could have been committed to an institution and treated until she recovered. Conservatorships are for people who cannot recover, as from advanced Alzheimer's or severe brain damage, not for people who can work to earn hundreds of millions of dollars, from which her conservators benefit directly.
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Old 5th July 2021, 02:58 PM   #6
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Bipolar is also not usually something that requires conservatorship. And generally when any mental condition does, it usually has to be at a point where someone can't take care of themselves or function by themselves pretty much at all. Someone who can go around doing concerts, training backup dancers and whatnot, and generally making enough money by themselves to give the conservator guy an income that's squarely in the "rich" bracket, is quite obviously not at that point.

Frankly, I always found it utterly bizarre that she was given that in the first place. And that's putting it very mildly.
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Old 5th July 2021, 03:16 PM   #7
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I’ve known plenty of folks with bipolar and it really hits hardest in the early 20’s, as was the case with Britney. I know of none who need a conservator ship as of these days, but they are better with self care now then they were back in the day.
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Old 5th July 2021, 04:47 PM   #8
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In Europe this would probably have been illegal as the right to a private and family life is protected under the human rights convention, and she could not have been prevented from marrying and having children. Indeed I suspect most doctors would have been in danger of losing their license to practice had they inserted an IUCD against her expressed consent, or indeed without her free consent.

It is frankly astonishing that such a permanent removal of her rights over her own body could have been allowed. People should be allowed to make bad decisions.
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Old 5th July 2021, 07:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
In Europe this would probably have been illegal as the right to a private and family life is protected under the human rights convention, and she could not have been prevented from marrying and having children. Indeed I suspect most doctors would have been in danger of losing their license to practice had they inserted an IUCD against her expressed consent, or indeed without her free consent.

It is frankly astonishing that such a permanent removal of her rights over her own body could have been allowed. People should be allowed to make bad decisions.

In the U.S., older adults are easily deprived of life, liberty and property without due process of law. That's prevalent in power of attorney abuse, and guardianship/conservatorship abuse. Someone can easily take away someone else's life, liberty, and property. There's the strong likelihood you can't do a damn thing to stop it. Many broken systems and cruel people are involved.

The rights you mentioned pertaining to Europe, could be similar/same to the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, in the United States Constitution.

There are cruel, sadistic people in the world. Someone can get power of attorney, get a guardianship/conservatorship over someone (called a ward), and, I paraphrase... control every aspect of their life: property, finances, medical decisions, housing and social relationships. They can isolate you from your family, put you in a nursing home and medicate you until you die. That's from "Is Elder Guardianship A Human Rights Violation?"

The article starts with the lead:
Many happy, independent, capable seniors are victimized and stripped off their rights.
Britney Spears isn't a senior, but her conservatorship reeks of the same exploitive and fraudulent abuse seen in power of attorney abuse and elder guardianships.

(I think they meant to say, they are stripped of their rights, not off their rights.

But that's the point; the ease of which someone can strip someone of their rights, property, relationships, and life.

Britney Spears faces a difficult time getting out of her conservatorship.

Source:

Halpern, Jack. "Is Elder Guardianship A Human Rights Violation?" MyElder.com(23 Mar 2021) https[colon]//myelder[dot]com/elder-guardianship-human-rights-violation/
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Old 5th July 2021, 07:38 PM   #10
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I feel like there is a lot more to her condition than is publicly known. A lot is probably kept hidden in order to keep her "brand" somewhat intact.
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Old 5th July 2021, 08:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I feel like there is a lot more to her condition than is publicly known. A lot is probably kept hidden in order to keep her "brand" somewhat intact.
Why make that assumption? And why should anything be hidden? Legal proceedings are generally public so the public can have confidence in the process and the results. If she's being abused, as she herself says, how would we know? She's not allowed to hire her own lawyer or her own therapist or make any decisions for herself, even though she produces hundreds of millions of dollars of income that directly benefit her conservators. At an absolute minimum, her conservators should not be people who profit from her continued incapacity. This just stinks.

Last edited by Bob001; 5th July 2021 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 5th July 2021, 10:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why make that assumption? And why should anything be hidden? Legal proceedings are generally public so the public can have confidence in the process and the results.
Generally. That doesn't apply in this case. I know the law in the US varies between states, but more often than not the health and wellbeing of people is considered highly sensitive.

Quote:
If she's being abused, as she herself says, how would we know?
You don't have to know. You don't have, or at least ought not to have, an absolute right to know every single detail about a persons health and wellbeing. Just because a court of law is involved doesn't change that. Personal integrity is valued higher than public insight in these kind of proceedings for this very reason.

This whole situation reminds me of those cases in the UK where parents with brain dead children were trying to release them from the hospitals care so they could take some completely futile "treatment" abroad. The hospital and doctors were legally prohibited from disclosing the child's diagnosis and status but the parents were allowed to go out in public and make public statements to the media and effectively lie about how all their child needed was to have this treatment and they would be cured.

The parents effectively and publicly accused the doctors and the hospital of murdering their child by refusing to have their child given proper treatment when in reality they were already dead and just a empty shell, and the hospital couldn't defend themselves at all except in the most general non-specific words possible because the privacy and personal integrity of the child was legally protected.
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Old 5th July 2021, 11:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
AIUI - and I am open to correction - she was diagnosed with an affective mood disorder, which used to be know as bipolar. Her acting erratically at that stage of her life was not just someone 'going wild' or, 'going through a phase'. Bipolar can be a frightening illness. A good friend of mine had this and in her so-called 'manic phase' she'd go on wildly extravagant shopping sprees and do things like order four different meals all at once. She was a joy to be with when she was like this and we had great fun out and about; such a mood is highly infectious. However, she also had dangerously low suicidal moods - she had been in hospital several times after slashing her wrists - it is a serious condition. She's on lithium for life. I feel desperately sorry for Britney but she likely needs someone to help and support her. I doesn't need to be her father.

. . .

It struck me at the time that Britney Spears' behaviour was very high risk in terms of possible harm to herself.
But does she need a conservator? Does she need to have certain rights taken away, like the right to control her own money, or all the other things they apparently have control over? She is an adult, right? She has not been convicted of any crime as far as I am aware? (I admit that I am not a big follower of celebrity "news" and gossip, so there may be some things I am not aware of.)

At her age, being told "No, you cannot have another baby; you must use this IUD and only the conservator can allow you to remove it" is effectively like sterilization since she won't be fertile for much longer.

Kanye West is also bipolar, but he doesn't have a conservator. He is free to make his own decisions like any other adult. That doesn't necessarily mean they will be the best decisions. But adults are free to make poor decisions with their life and suffer the consequences. Many celebrities make tons of money and yet manage to fritter it all away. Mike Tyson is one who comes to mind. All the money he made from boxing, supposedly he spent it all and was broke at one time. But later he was able to make more money doing other things. So somehow people muddle through even after making poor decisions with their money.
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Old 5th July 2021, 11:31 PM   #14
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But, she's not braindead. She has an active social media presence, makes public appearances, and puts on live concerts. To me it doesn't make a lot of sense to believe she's faking that and is actually so mentally incapacitated that she shouldn't have decision making rights of her own.
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Old 5th July 2021, 11:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
But does she need a conservator? Does she need to have certain rights taken away, like the right to control her own money, or all the other things they apparently have control over? She is an adult, right? She has not been convicted of any crime as far as I am aware? (I admit that I am not a big follower of celebrity "news" and gossip, so there may be some things I am not aware of.)
Even if she did commit crimes, people convicted of crimes don't lose those rights either.
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Old 5th July 2021, 11:49 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Even if she did commit crimes, people convicted of crimes don't lose those rights either.
For a time they do, if they are incarcerated. Once their sentence has been served, most of their rights are restored though.
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Old 6th July 2021, 01:47 AM   #17
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Seen on social media this morning:

If Ozzy Osborne is considered mentally sound enough to control his own finances, so is Britney Spears.

#FreeBritney
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There doesn't seem to be a thread about Britney Spears' situation. I've never been a fan, as I've never been a 13-year-old girl, but her situation raises legitimate questions about how people can lose their rights to a conservatorship and be unable to regain them.
Her music is rubbish, but she's made some of the hottest videos on record, so I'm definitely a fan.

Her situation would be unconscionable in any sane country, but she's in USA, so about par for the course.
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Old 6th July 2021, 03:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I feel desperately sorry for Britney but she likely needs someone to help and support her.
"Help and support" is one thing. "Be in total control of all her decisions and all her money" is another.

It's like she is apparently capable of doing a residency in Las Vegas for 4 years, of recording entire albums and promoting them, of being a judge on a talent show, and of taking on acting roles...but she can't be trusted to choose her own lawyer? Or her own housekeeper? Or to write a former employee a reference? Or to own a phone?
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Old 6th July 2021, 03:06 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why make that assumption? And why should anything be hidden? Legal proceedings are generally public so the public can have confidence in the process and the results. If she's being abused, as she herself says, how would we know? She's not allowed to hire her own lawyer or her own therapist or make any decisions for herself, even though she produces hundreds of millions of dollars of income that directly benefit her conservators. At an absolute minimum, her conservators should not be people who profit from her continued incapacity. This just stinks.
You're right. It's probably just a grand conspiracy and the courts are out to get her, too.

Quote:
: “I just want my life back. And it’s been 13 years. And it’s enough. It’s been a long time since I’ve owned my money. And it’s my wish and my dream for all of this to end without being tested.”
Keep dreaming, honey.
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:34 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
For a time they do, if they are incarcerated. Once their sentence has been served, most of their rights are restored though.
Depends on what rights we're talking about. I think in most sane countries even if you're a murderer on death row (which you wouldn't be in sane countries either), someone doesn't get to unilaterally decide to stick a IUD inside you.

Also, at least in the EU there's no such thing as forced labour even if you are a convict. Compulsory work is explicitly forbidden by chapter 1 article 5 of the EU Charter of fundamental rights. It's lumped together with slavery, because really that's what it is.

You may be given advantages if you do work in prison, but ultimately you still have the final word on whether you do it or not. You can't be coerced to go there and do that work, whether you want to or not.

Which it sounds like essentially she's been subjected to. Whether she's been given money for it or not, it sounds like someone else was deciding for her where she should go and what shows should she do.
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:38 AM   #22
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I hadn't heard about this until a couple of days ago when it "trended". That sounds like exploitation to me. A sordid affair.
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:39 AM   #23
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Reporting from the New Yorker strongly suggests that the conservators, including Spears own father, are bleeding her fortune dry and treat the aging performer as little more than a cash cow. The attorney that administers her conservatorship is being paid over half a million a year. Spears describes her father threatening to sue her if she refuses to go on tour. Any resistance to this scheme results in exorbitant legal fees that she must pay for.

It's entirely possible that Spears' mental health is poor and erratic enough that a conservator is appropriate, but I don't see why her family, who have been treating her as their meal-ticket since she was a child, should be involved in any way.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/ameri...ship-nightmare
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:40 AM   #24
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What kind of parent does that?
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:44 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You're right. It's probably just a grand conspiracy and the courts are out to get her, too.
I don't know if the courts (as in plural) are out to get her, but as was mentioned before, conservatorship is supposed to be for people who are fundamentally unable to take care of themselves. Like someone who's got advanced Alzheimer's or whatever.

Someone who can be trusted to do tours, train and choreograph her backup dancers, give interviews, and so on... yeah, I have a hard time seeing how that qualifies. If you can trust her to not break down and do something stupid on stage, in front of a couple thousand people, after being on a bus all night, I don't see how it would count as yeah, but she couldn't do other less stressful stuff without someone ordering her around.

Also note that the standard is how well someone is able to function, not exactly what the diagnosed illness is. That's generally the standard in psychiatry these days. So I have a hard time believing that whatever may be in her medical file can change the fact that, yes, she seems perfectly capable of functioning in complex and stressful situations just fine.

Now I'm not saying that there's some conspiracy, but let's just say, it wouldn't exactly surprise me if it turns out some corruption was involved either.
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:52 AM   #26
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If she's that mentally ill why would her best interests not be to retire quietly and concentrate on getting well, rather than performing? Surely she has amassed enough wealth to live comfortably. It's difficult to imagine how she could simultaneously be incapacitated enough to not run her own affairs but be well enough to continue a demanding public career.
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Old 6th July 2021, 04:56 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If she's that mentally ill why would her best interests not be to retire quietly and concentrate on getting well, rather than performing? Surely she has amassed enough wealth to live comfortably. It's difficult to imagine how she could simultaneously be incapacitated enough to not run her own affairs but be well enough to continue a demanding public career.
Considering it's costing her half a mil a year to pay her "guardians" for their services, she's in quite the cash crunch.

But yes, if reports of her wealth are even close to accurate (60 million), she could easily live off the interest alone and live a more normal life as a retiree, assuming she could get rid of these parasites.
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Old 6th July 2021, 05:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You're right. It's probably just a grand conspiracy and the courts are out to get her, too.
....
Read the links. That's exactly what it looks like.
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Old 6th July 2021, 05:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
It’s funny, my assumption on the matter would be the conservatorship had been based heavily on mostly public perception. I’m sure every one of us knows a person in a much worse position or serious mental illness than her that still retains a lot more decision making power.

I think the whole thing is bizarre and I feel very badly for her.
Daddy wants to cling to his meal ticket forever....
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Old 6th July 2021, 05:43 AM   #30
Bob001
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Considering it's costing her half a mil to pay her "guardians" for their services, she's in quite the cash crunch.
....

Quite a bit more than that, actually. Her court-appointed lawyer alone gets $520 grand. A lot of people have their thumbs in the pie.
Quote:
Goetz appointed a probate lawyer named Sam Ingham as Spears’s advocate, and then granted the conservators’ petition to waive the requirement to notify her that any of this was happening. Ingham remains in the role; Spears covers his annual salary of five hundred and twenty thousand dollars.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/ameri...ship-nightmare
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Old 6th July 2021, 06:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
But does she need a conservator? Does she need to have certain rights taken away, like the right to control her own money, or all the other things they apparently have control over? She is an adult, right? She has not been convicted of any crime as far as I am aware? (I admit that I am not a big follower of celebrity "news" and gossip, so there may be some things I am not aware of.)

At her age, being told "No, you cannot have another baby; you must use this IUD and only the conservator can allow you to remove it" is effectively like sterilization since she won't be fertile for much longer.

Kanye West is also bipolar, but he doesn't have a conservator. He is free to make his own decisions like any other adult. That doesn't necessarily mean they will be the best decisions. But adults are free to make poor decisions with their life and suffer the consequences. Many celebrities make tons of money and yet manage to fritter it all away. Mike Tyson is one who comes to mind. All the money he made from boxing, supposedly he spent it all and was broke at one time. But later he was able to make more money doing other things. So somehow people muddle through even after making poor decisions with their money.
You have to admit, however, that Kanye West was a very embarrassing public spectacle and went on to harm the image of his daughter, as well as triggering divorce proceedings by his angry wife. Should people who are mentally ill be allowed to put themselves up for public mockery? I recall the Who drummer acting extremely erratically and he was obviously 'not well'.

I am not saying Britney should have conservatorship, just that we may not know the other side of the story. Her manager has now quit saying that as she has announced her retirement from show business, he is no longer needed.

It could be that the upcoming hearing 14 July IIRC will finally free Britney of her shackles.
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Old 6th July 2021, 06:19 AM   #32
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A friend of mine from high school was in a slightly similar situation. His father was a doctor who had done rather well for himself. My friend was an only child, and a bit of a goofball. His parents were well aware of his semi-responsible lifestyle, and as such, had it written into their wills, that he would not have any control over the estate, save a monthly "allowance", until he turned 45. A lawyer his father trusted was put in charge of the trust after their passing. Unfortunately, the trust his father placed in said lawyer was misplaced, as the lawyer started siphoning large amounts from the estate my friend had virtually no control over, despite it being his alone.
He ended up hiring a lawyer of his own to fight to get control of the estate. In the end, his lawyers were triumphant in court, and control was taken away from the lawyer his father had placed in control. But that wasn't the end of the story. While the lawyers he hired did get control taken from the shyster, the court would not give my friend direct control, since he hadn't turned 45 yet, and the will was quite explicit about when he could have full control over the sizable estate. Unfortunately, my friend died in a motorcycle accident at age 42.
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Old 6th July 2021, 06:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
....
This whole situation reminds me of those cases in the UK where parents with brain dead children were trying to release them from the hospitals care so they could take some completely futile "treatment" abroad. The hospital and doctors were legally prohibited from disclosing the child's diagnosis and status but the parents were allowed to go out in public and make public statements to the media and effectively lie about how all their child needed was to have this treatment and they would be cured.
....
Comparing a fully functioning adult woman who earns many millions of dollars in a demanding industry to a brain-dead child is just ridiculous. Spears has not even been allowed to hire her own lawyer to represent her interests as she sees fit. The public does have an interest in knowing whether anybody is being abused, and whether the legal process is complicit.
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Old 6th July 2021, 08:48 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
If she's that mentally ill why would her best interests not be to retire quietly and concentrate on getting well, rather than performing? Surely she has amassed enough wealth to live comfortably. It's difficult to imagine how she could simultaneously be incapacitated enough to not run her own affairs but be well enough to continue a demanding public career.
Her last live performance was in October of 2018. Her last stay at a mental health facility was in March of 2019.

Quote:
“I just want my life back. And it’s been 13 years. And it’s enough. It’s been a long time since I’ve owned my money. And it’s my wish and my dream for all of this to end without being tested.”
She is basically refusing to get another mental health evaluation. I wonder why that is? If I felt I was mentally sound, I would be demanding it. Some will point to a larger conspiracy, however.

Quote:
“Any time Britney wants to end her conservatorship, she can ask her lawyer to file a petition to terminate it; she has always had this right but in 13 years has never exercised it,” Vivian Lee Thoreen, a lawyer for Mr. Spears, said in a statement to People earlier this year.
She still has not filed a petition.

I find it very interesting that people are quick to believe everything she says, even without the supporting evidence, and to theorize of conspiracies and such. Not surprising for the general populace, but in a Skeptics forum? That, I find somewhat surprising.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:09 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
She still has not filed a petition.

I find it very interesting that people are quick to believe everything she says, even without the supporting evidence, and to theorize of conspiracies and such. Not surprising for the general populace, but in a Skeptics forum? That, I find somewhat surprising.
She can't file a petition herself. Her lawyer, who was appointed by the court and is paid through the conservatorship, has to file it for her.

We don't have to believe everything she says to observe that a lot of people, especially including her father, have a strong financial interest in maintaining her current status. Most people with mental illness are treated without being permanently turned into legal children.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:16 AM   #36
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I'd also add that apparently according to her, she wasn't even told that she could file a motion.

As for comparing it to people with mental problems, actually, it's even worse. Most people with mental illnesses can even refuse treatment, unless it's at the point where they're just short of brain dead. Like, you can literally be a schizophrenic living under a bridge, and refuse to be medicated. It's your right. At least as long as you're not actually endangering anyone.


Additionally, in her case, it's not even that mysterious or hard to form an opinion. If she's diagnosed as bipolar, it just means what was previously called "manic depressive." We're not talking about some terminal Alzheimer's case who might forget how to get home, or some aggressive schizophrenic whose voices in the head tell them to sacrifice their neighbour to Nyarlathotep. It's just manic depression. That's it. It's an illness affecting 2.9% of the males and 2.8% of females in the USA, and almost all of them can function perfectly (albeit not happily) in spite of it. It CAN be crippling if you end up curled up in a corner during the depressive phases, or such. BUT here's an idea: if you can trust someone to do concerts and whatnot, without a fear that they'll just curl up on the stage if the depressive phase hits, then no, it's not crippling enough.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:23 AM   #37
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I wonder why she doesn't give an interview to Oprah Winfrey (or to another talk show host), like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle did.

This could perhaps help to clarify a few things (even for herself).

She seems to be very shy with respect to the media these days.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
She can't file a petition herself. Her lawyer, who was appointed by the court and is paid through the conservatorship, has to file it for her.

We don't have to believe everything she says to observe that a lot of people, especially including her father, have a strong financial interest in maintaining her current status. Most people with mental illness are treated without being permanently turned into legal children.
Sounds like more conspiracy stuff, to me.

Quote:
"My precious body has worked for my dad for the past f--king 13 years, trying to be so good and pretty."
Does the above sound a little odd, coming from a 39-year-old woman?

Quote:
Britney Spears' father Jamie Spears has filed legal documents calling for an investigation into the singer's claims of mistreatment, which she detailed in a scathing court statement against him and the 13-year conservatorship he continues to partially control.

In a petition filed in Los Angeles on Tuesday, June 29, and obtained by E! News, Jamie, 68, said he is "concerned about the management and care of his daughter," noting that for the past two years, he has not managed her personal or medical affairs. He does co-manage her estate with a financial company.
https://www.eonline.com/news/1285134...p-mistreatment

But, I guess this is all part of the conspiracy.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:38 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I wonder why she doesn't give an interview to Oprah Winfrey (or to another talk show host), like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle did.

This could perhaps help to clarify a few things (even for herself).

She seems to be very shy with respect to the media these days.
Her conservators control all aspects of her life. They would need to approve such an interview. Not likely.
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Old 6th July 2021, 09:39 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Most people with mental illness, whether bipolar disorder or something else, are treated without losing all of their rights forever. If she was in extreme distress -- about which there seems to be some dispute -- she could have been committed to an institution and treated until she recovered. Conservatorships are for people who cannot recover, as from advanced Alzheimer's or severe brain damage, not for people who can work to earn hundreds of millions of dollars, from which her conservators benefit directly.

Regardless of one's views on convervatorships in general, or on the kinds of conditions might be applicable for such, or on whether Britney herself was of that condition, this much at least is surely entirely beyond any argument at all.

It is preposterous that her father has, apparently, benefited, and continues to benefit, from this situation. Not only should this situation be put to the strongest legal scrutiny, and put to right, but if there turns out to have been a misapplication on the conditions for convervatorship in this case, then the father should actually be prosecuted and sent behind bars. (Although I don't know what charges can be raised against him. Whatever applies, broadly, to fraud, maybe?)



Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
A friend of mine from high school was in a slightly similar situation. His father was a doctor who had done rather well for himself. My friend was an only child, and a bit of a goofball. His parents were well aware of his semi-responsible lifestyle, and as such, had it written into their wills, that he would not have any control over the estate, save a monthly "allowance", until he turned 45. A lawyer his father trusted was put in charge of the trust after their passing. Unfortunately, the trust his father placed in said lawyer was misplaced, as the lawyer started siphoning large amounts from the estate my friend had virtually no control over, despite it being his alone.
He ended up hiring a lawyer of his own to fight to get control of the estate. In the end, his lawyers were triumphant in court, and control was taken away from the lawyer his father had placed in control. But that wasn't the end of the story. While the lawyers he hired did get control taken from the shyster, the court would not give my friend direct control, since he hadn't turned 45 yet, and the will was quite explicit about when he could have full control over the sizable estate. Unfortunately, my friend died in a motorcycle accident at age 42.

But that's a whole different situation.

That was your friend's father's money. He left it as he thought best. Was his judgement correct? Maybe, maybe not. Whether right or wrong, whether in fact in your friend's best interests or not, that money was his father's, to do with as he thought best at that time.

(Not condoning the lawyer's dishonesty and opportunism, obviously, but merely pointing out that this case is very different from the ...absolute abomination, wholly unfair and entirely divorced from common sense, that Britney's situation seems to be.)
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