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Tags britney spears , celebrity incidents , celebrity issues

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Old 28th July 2021, 05:43 AM   #441
jollyroger85
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
They won't, nor do they care, to get it.

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I AGREE


Sadly.
any more than you do, when taken to the extreme of liberty that she's been denied. Your take throughout this thread has been at best..... callous
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Old 28th July 2021, 06:14 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
If no one here has personal experience with the "revolving door" of mental illness where paranoid or bipolar delusions pay a big part, then you don't know that these persons can act totally or 'reasonably' normal for periods of time.....and then the rabbit hole opens up and sucks them down. Again, and again, and again..... a few weeks in hospital here, a few weeks there, 6 months intensive..... then try something new, maybe this 20th mix of meds will work? maybe off all meds? try everything....but it just never ends. We tried for 10 years. There is no cure, only coping and lots of support. At some point you give up the dream of some return to normalcy.

Xavier Amador has a great book called "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" about his experiences with this. Helped me a lot is dealing with a family member in the same situation (with anosognosia).
No one with bipolar disorder needs a conservatorship, specifically, is what we're saying. They are supposed to be for actual incapacity, like dementia. I keep saying this. No one is saying people with bipolar don't need treatment or benefit from help.

You may think that this kind of arrangement is appropriate for bipolar, personally (I don't agree, of course). But legally, it should not meet the standards for such ironclad guardianship. Therefore, legal impropriety and state overreach are the concerns, not Britney's problems. It's all being investigated now, and the truth will likely come out, whatever it is - so I don't have much more opinion than that.
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Old 28th July 2021, 06:36 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
No one with bipolar disorder needs a conservatorship, specifically, is what we're saying. They are supposed to be for actual incapacity, like dementia. I keep saying this. No one is saying people with bipolar don't need treatment or benefit from help.

You may think that this kind of arrangement is appropriate for bipolar, personally (I don't agree, of course). But legally, it should not meet the standards for such ironclad guardianship. Therefore, legal impropriety and state overreach are the concerns, not Britney's problems. It's all being investigated now, and the truth will likely come out, whatever it is - so I don't have much more opinion than that.
I actually do agree with this. Where I live, it is extremely difficult to get someone on conservatorship. My family member would benefit by it, but I doubt we could actually do it. That is because in most parts of the US, it's not illegal to be as incapacitated as you want to be- as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others. That is the hurdle, and it's a big one.

Britney's case is sad because I think the hurdle was lower due to her wealth and celebrity. She is an unfortunate target for people wanting to exploit her- friend, foe, and family included. If she was just some normal person living in a rural village somewhere, she'd probably be just fine on her own with community support.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:22 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
I actually do agree with this. Where I live, it is extremely difficult to get someone on conservatorship. My family member would benefit by it, but I doubt we could actually do it. That is because in most parts of the US, it's not illegal to be as incapacitated as you want to be- as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others. That is the hurdle, and it's a big one.

Britney's case is sad because I think the hurdle was lower due to her wealth and celebrity. She is an unfortunate target for people wanting to exploit her- friend, foe, and family included. If she was just some normal person living in a rural village somewhere, she'd probably be just fine on her own with community support.
I agree with all this, and I think you make a great point about her celebrity being a complicating factor.
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Old 28th July 2021, 03:35 PM   #445
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Originally Posted by jollyroger85 View Post
Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
That (broken) arrangement & reasoning is in part how abuse, exploitation, and fraud, can continue in perpetuity.

Good luck trying to get out of an abusive conservatorship, guardianship, crooked power of attorney. 'Justice' is stacked against you.

Broken court systems, biased laws, corrupt individuals, abusive family, (and a long list of other professionals and people) make it easy for abusive, exploitative, and fraudulent conservatorships/guardianships/power of attorney, to happen in perpetuity.

Typically, a person gets out of a conservatorship or guardianship by dying.
Though is this egregious case, it is being thrown into the public eye just what a POS the Father and the conservatorship is, and that will likely/hopefully prove it's undoing.

An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

#FreeBritney activism has been instrumental in bringing Britney's abusive conservatorship into the public eye. Leanne Simmons runs an activist website that includes an about page; frequently asked questions; events; timelines; and has copies of court documents.
Simmons runs freebritney.army and is just one of a growing number of people advocating for California courts to release pop star Britney Spears from her conservatorship, under the banner #FreeBritney. It's a fluid, grassroots movement in which members share and analyze court documents, help one another understand the ins and outs of guardianship law, organize in-person rallies around the world, and get the word out about Spears' story. [1]
In addition to people who truly care about Britney's health and welfare, Britney's wealth may play a pivotal role in her freedom from her abusive conservatorship. Why? Britney can use a lot of money–which will likely cost millions of dollars–to investigate, prepare cases, go to court, and prosecute if appropriate.

Britney has/had to pay many people tremendous amounts of money to 'manage' her conservatorship and business ventures. The conservators can hire the best lawyers–using Britney's money–to defend themselves, while Britney is in the (abusive) conservatorship. So Britney has to pay the cost of the conservators legal counsel & costs, as well as her own legal counsel and costs.

Britney's will to speak out, #FreeBritney activism, making things public, support, and having the money to fight, may all play a part in the undoing of this abusive conservatorship.

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.

Free Britney
  • Hold abusers accountable
  • Expose the broken systems
  • Make the abusers' names and dirty deeds public
Remember there are other people who are or have been under abusive/exploitive/fraudulent conservatorships/guardianships/power-of-attorney.

Sources

[1] Limbong, Andrew. "They Were Laughed At For Their #FreeBritney Activism. Not Anymore." npr, 26 July 2021. Retrieved from https[colon]//www.npr[dot]org/2021/07/26/1018877604/free-britney-movement-activists
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Old 28th July 2021, 05:23 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

...

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.
It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:08 PM   #447
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I'd be against stupid evaluations too. I'd much rather get some non-stupid evaluations, from a mental health provider that I choose and that I trust.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:54 PM   #448
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
An egregious case. Yes. But it's important to keep in mind that much of superstar Britney Spears's unjust circumstances share common horrors found in 'everyday' conservatorship and guardianship abuse cases.

...

I hope at some point Britney will make a chart to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship. The public should realize the financial and emotional costs to Britney.
It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.

Re: chart making

My hope is that Britney would make a chart, or charts, to show how much it cost her to get out of her conservatorship (if it happens, which I believe is highly likely).

The purpose of the charts would be to show how much money was spent to get out of her abusive conservatorship. I'd like to see a complete financial accounting of all costs, including but not limited to legal fees and expenses for the conservators, legal fees and expenses for Britney (conservatee), court costs, forensic accounting, depositions, financial records/statements...all associated costs.

And, I'd like to see a wellness-type chart, that represents the psychological & emotional costs.

I would guess any detailed chart(s) would be public after final resolution of the abusive conservatorship?

I understand how you can say, "It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that." Because Britney's been posting things to that effect. But as a cautionary point, the chart(s) I'd hope to see likely won't be done for months, if they're made public at all.

Re: Doctors reports

It's critical to see medical reports, (at least for the attorneys, Britney, and the judge) such as doctors' reports, psychological type evaluations. It's important to know what the judge, and whoever did evaluations, said. Britney didn't appear in court the day her conservatorship was placed into effect. So the judge couldn't ask Britney questions, such as if she knew she'd be losing her freedom and financial control.

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) statute should keep Britney's medical information private and confidential (as well as it should), but...I'm hoping some or parts of files will be released, with comments by Britney. The reason is so the public can understand the processes, procedures, what was done for evaluation, why evaluations were done, who did the evaluations, and how that aggregate information led to a voluntary conservatorship.

There's potential issues about coercive mental health treatment.

I wonder, is there's an audio-with-video in which Britney agrees to the voluntary conservatorship, and says she understands the extent of her loss of liberty, freedom, and financial control.

Yes there might be signed documents by someone stating to that effect, but is there audio-with-video??? Video might help prevent instances if there is a question about altered, forged, concealed, or destroyed documents.

Re: Unwell

You said,
Quote:
I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...

But I could say Britney is emotional because she's been in an abusive conservatorship for 13 years, and didn't have the freedom she would've had without the conservatorship. She likely has a lot of pent up feelings and is acting out. Some people could consider her behavior questionable, but I don't see that as 'evidence' that Britney is "unwell."

I could say Britney's overjoyed that her conservatorship may end soon, and that people may be held accountable for the alleged abuses, and it is through Britney's pictures, videos, posts, etc. Cartwheels and photos showing a lot of skin might be the way Britney knows how to express happiness, joy, and having (some) control in her life.

Re: "stupid evaluations"

No. Britney did not say, "stupid evaluations." Close, but Britney used other descriptions. If you have a transcript that states, "stupid evaluations," please cite your source.

Evaluations led to the voluntary conservatorship. I infer Britney isn't happy about that.

In your post #446, you wrote that,
Quote:
Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
I agree, the medical documents (doctors reports) are crucial to understanding how the conservatorship started, and who was involved in making it. A judge apparently agreed with the documentation.

Britney said in transcript of the 23 June 2021 by Variety, that:

Quote:
And it’s been 13 years. And it’s enough. It’s been a long time since I’ve owned my money. And it’s my wish and my dream for all of this to end without being tested. Again, it makes no sense whatsoever for the state of California to sit back and literally watch me with their own two eyes, make a living for so many people, and pay so many people, trucks and buses on the road with me and be told, I’m not good enough. But I’m great at what I do. And I allow these people to control what I do, ma’am. And it’s enough. It makes no sense at all.

Now, going forward, I’m not willing to meet or see anyone. I’ve met with enough people against my will. I’m done.
Quote:
The main reason why I’m here is because I want to end the conservatorship without having to be evaluated.
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:11 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.
Omg, a pop star dancing? She must be insane
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Old 29th July 2021, 12:52 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.
.....
You don't seem to get that once the conservatorship has been established, its necessity becomes the presumptive position. The conservators don't have to keep justifying it, or look for alternative measures; the conservatee has to try to prove that it's no longer necessary, and as this case demonstrates, it's an uphill battle. It appears that at the beginning of the process Daddy signed a form that said Spears was suffering from dementia. That's clearly a lie. But it very likely played a part in establishing the permanent conservatorship.

Once again, it doesn't matter whether Spears is mentally ill, however defined. Most mental illness can be and is treated without making adults legal children forever. How many celebrities can you name who have been arrested for drugs or alcohol, been in and out of rehab, entered and ended bad marriages and relationships, lost money in risky investments, made dumb career choices and worse without having conservatorships imposed on them? Spears was her family's cash cow from her preteens, and they acted to protect themselves, not her.
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Old 29th July 2021, 01:00 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship?
No, someone can't. That information is contained in confidential medical records. Nothing short of a court order will show them to you.
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Old 29th July 2021, 04:01 AM   #452
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Britney Spears’ Agent Called Her Conservatorship A “Violation Of Human Rights” And Said He’s Been “Threatened” Into Remaining Silent

Unfortunately the Instagram post itself is set to "private" so all I can do is link to a report about it.

Britney's agent, Cade Hudson, says “I've kept my mouth shut out of the fear of losing my job as her agent and losing the career I worked my ass off for 15 years to build, out of threats from the man we all know who, but I won't even dignify [by] mentioning his name. I’m officially done being quiet."
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:17 AM   #453
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The New York Times published a notable article today, 29 July 2021

"Britney Law Army’s Mission Is Keeping a Movement in the Know"

Quote:
Through a mix of information sharing and advocacy, a fan account on Twitter has become a resource for people following Britney Spears’s conservatorship case. [1]

The power of activists on social media fan bases may play a role in freeing Britney from an abusive conservatorship.

Quote:
Megan Radford, 34, described @BritneyLawArmy as “a really reliable source of information” about the court proceedings. “They explain court documents for people who aren’t lawyers,” said Ms. Radford, who helps manage the @FreeBritneyLA account and has organized some of the #FreeBritney rallies in Los Angeles from her home in Oklahoma City. [2]

Twitter account for Britney Law Army is @BritneyLawArmy

Source

Safronova, Valeriya. "Britney Law Army’s Mission Is Keeping a Movement in the Know." The New York Times, 29 July 2021. Retrieved from https[colon]//www.nytimes[dot]com/2021/07/29/style/britney-spears-law-army-twitter.html
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:38 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It seems she is too busy posting topless pics on IG, and dance videos, to do that.

At any rate, can someone show me the doctors reports and such, that led to this continued conservatorship? I mean, you can pretty clearly see she is unwell, based on her posts...but I would like to see the opinions of the medical experts who have examined her. I have seen a lot of opinions expressed by internet "experts", no doubt.

Since she is against any more "stupid evaluations" (her words), these documents are very much of interest.
But unwell enough to deprive her of personal freedom, theres millions out there worse off than her who are in the same state, so no. Your regard for the value of personal freedom, good or bad, is nauseating
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:57 AM   #455
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Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.

There's a strong possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I am judging by such factors as her getting a huge hit with "Hit Me Baby One More Time" when she was 17 years old. I don't know exactly how much input she had in song selection so maybe I'm full of it, but I kind of thought of that song as a cry for help, quite a while before she had any public meltdown.

But again, what do I know. I just feel for her and wish her the best.
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Old 29th July 2021, 07:31 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.

There's a strong possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about, since I am judging by such factors as her getting a huge hit with "Hit Me Baby One More Time" when she was 17 years old. I don't know exactly how much input she had in song selection so maybe I'm full of it, but I kind of thought of that song as a cry for help, quite a while before she had any public meltdown.

But again, what do I know. I just feel for her and wish her the best.
The first step is getting daddy out of his current role and given a **** ton of legal scrunity followed by inevitable jail time. The conservatorship of the person needs to end. Period, it is and always a ******** attempt to exploit her.
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Old 29th July 2021, 09:39 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Britney Spears is going to be surrounded by hangers-on hoping to gain by the association even if she succeeds in dumping Daddy dearest. She'll continue to struggle with wanting to be loved for herself while mobbed by people who want to use her. It isn't just her bipolar disorder that could make this treacherous for her, but, IMO, general emotional insecurity.
.....
Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
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Old 29th July 2021, 11:30 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
Daddy was the problem from day one.
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Old 29th July 2021, 01:54 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
Plenty of other celebrities end up penniless. All the lawyers in the world can't protect her fortune from other people if she allows them into her life.

It's her right to squander her fortune, get serial married, loan money to worthless family members, and any other foolishness she wants to engage in. Financial ruin is absolutely a possibility if this conservatorship is removed, but that's really not the point.
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Old 29th July 2021, 08:00 PM   #460
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Plenty of other celebrities end up penniless. All the lawyers in the world can't protect her fortune from other people if she allows them into her life.

It's her right to squander her fortune, get serial married, loan money to worthless family members, and any other foolishness she wants to engage in. Financial ruin is absolutely a possibility if this conservatorship is removed, but that's really not the point.
Sure. My point simply was that ending the conservatorship doesn't have to mean Spears is ruined. She can hire responsible people and rely on their advice and guidance -- or not. The possibility of a bad outcome in no way justifies continuing the conservatorship.

And one often discussed alternative to conservatorships is "supported decision-making," where the subject makes decisions with input from friends and experts he chooses.
https://www.arcind.org/future-planni...cision-making/
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Old 30th July 2021, 05:37 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure. My point simply was that ending the conservatorship doesn't have to mean Spears is ruined. She can hire responsible people and rely on their advice and guidance -- or not. The possibility of a bad outcome in no way justifies continuing the conservatorship.

And one often discussed alternative to conservatorships is "supported decision-making," where the subject makes decisions with input from friends and experts he chooses.
https://www.arcind.org/future-planni...cision-making/
Just this am, Daddy chimed in, saying essentially, no matter what else happens, He's taken all that money from her and noone's getting it back. Special place in hell for that **** stain
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Old 30th July 2021, 09:21 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by jollyroger85 View Post
Just this am, Daddy chimed in, saying essentially, no matter what else happens, He's taken all that money from her and noone's getting it back. Special place in hell for that **** stain
Not only is he evil for doing it, he's colossally stupid for saying it.

On the other hand, her mom is on her side.
Quote:
"I became involved in this conservatorship because I wanted to ensure that everything in my daughter’s life was handled in the best interests of my daughter, the conservatee," Lynne states. "Which I did not believe at the time (and I still do not today) to be the case."

Lynne claims that, at the so-called "time of crisis," Jamie had hired a "sports enhancement doctor" to treat Britney, and that "the doctor in question was a psychiatrist who was prescribing what I and many others thought to be entirely inappropriate medicine to my daughter, who did not want to take the medicine."

"I witnessed my daughter be compelled by that doctor, with the knowledge and encouragement of Mr. Spears, to enter a health facility that she did not want to enter, where she was threatened with punishment if she did not stay for medical treatment that she did not want to endure," Lynne alleges in her statement.

Lynne claims that Jamie has "exercised absolutely microscopic control over the conservatee and her actions," and alleges that Jamie has tasked those working for Britney -- including "medical aides on site at the conservatee’s home, and her own security detail" -- to report back to him on "every detail of every action that takes place in the conservatee’s home and her life."

"Such scrutiny is exhausting and terrifying," Lynne states. "Like living in custody."
https://www.etonline.com/britney-spe...s-ahead-of-his
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Old 30th July 2021, 04:13 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by jollyroger85 View Post
Just this am, Daddy chimed in, saying essentially, no matter what else happens, He's taken all that money from her and noone's getting it back. Special place in hell for that **** stain
Link? Not doubting, I just want to read more.
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Old 30th July 2021, 05:34 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Competent lawyers and managers should be able to protect her from them and even from herself, as they do for other celebrities. That's what she's never had with Daddy in charge.
I hope she does choose to allow such a structure if she succeeds in getting out of the conservatorship. People who can protect her, not control her.

ETA: As Suburban Turkey said, the possibility that she could be financially ruined is not really the point. Still, trusts can be set up to ensure she does not end up penniless, if that's what she wants.

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Old 30th July 2021, 07:41 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, someone can't. That information is contained in confidential medical records. Nothing short of a court order will show them to you.
But yet, we seem to have plenty of experts who are commenting on her mental health status as though they know all of the facts. Go figure.

Who needs any "stupid evaluations", as she calls them...right?

My first post, from page 1:

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I feel like there is a lot more to her condition than is publicly known. A lot is probably kept hidden in order to keep her "brand" somewhat intact.
Now we have come full circle, it seems, after 12 pages.
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Old 30th July 2021, 09:14 PM   #466
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I don't think that it's an unwarranted comment to point out that nothing that is publicly known seems to justify her situation. Yes, there might be something massive that changes everything still to be revealed, but it seems odd to hang on to that possibility, and get upset with people who are worried that someone with significant financial incentive might possibly be exceeding their authority.
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Old 30th July 2021, 09:31 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I don't think that it's an unwarranted comment to point out that nothing that is publicly known seems to justify her situation. Yes, there might be something massive that changes everything still to be revealed, but it seems odd to hang on to that possibility, and get upset with people who are worried that someone with significant financial incentive might possibly be exceeding their authority.
Upset? What are you talking about? Hang on to what "possibility"? The "possibility" that the courts, doctors, and family may have not conspired in an evil way?

I am just pointing out the obvious....nobody here, or in the media, really knows her medical diagnosis. A lot of people seem to be caught up in their feelings, without any concern for real evidence.
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Old 1st August 2021, 09:24 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But yet, we seem to have plenty of experts who are commenting on her mental health status as though they know all of the facts. Go figure.
No-one commenting on her mental health status thinks that they are an expert, or that they know all of the facts. That is so eye-wateringly obvious that it shouldn't need to actually be said, but here we are.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Who needs any "stupid evaluations", as she calls them...right?
You're absolutely right. No-one needs stupid evaluations. She's already had stupid evaluations performed by stupid people under orders from her stupid father. What she really needs is a real evaluation by a trusted and properly qualified health care professional who is not linked in any way to her stupid father. But a mental health evaluation really needs to be volunteered for - if she doesn't want one, no-one can force her to undergo one. At least, that's how it is in a circumstance where one is not kept in virtual slavery to one's stupid father.
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Old 1st August 2021, 09:36 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You're absolutely right. No-one needs stupid evaluations. She's already had stupid evaluations performed by stupid people under orders from her stupid father. What she really needs is a real evaluation by a trusted and properly qualified health care professional who is not linked in any way to her stupid father. But a mental health evaluation really needs to be volunteered for - if she doesn't want one, no-one can force her to undergo one. At least, that's how it is in a circumstance where one is not kept in virtual slavery to one's stupid father.
Great, unprejudiced argument.
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Old 1st August 2021, 09:38 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Great, unprejudiced argument.
Expressed opinion.
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Old 1st August 2021, 09:41 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No-one commenting on her mental health status thinks that they are an expert, or that they know all of the facts. That is so eye-wateringly obvious that it shouldn't need to actually be said, but here we are.

But, apparently they are expert enough to mount conspiracy theories and call her father and doctors stupid. Got it.
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Old 1st August 2021, 10:02 PM   #472
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Free Britney!

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, apparently they are expert enough to mount conspiracy theories and call her father and doctors stupid. Got it.

Forget whether or not her father or doctors are stupid. Think about this: What mental conditions would one have to have in order for a judge to rule that one is incapable of making their own decisions?

In my view, it would have to be advanced dementia or some other condition, such as mental retardation, which severely affects the ability to perform activities of daily living (ADLs). The mere assertion that they make bad decisions would not be enough -again, in my view- to place someone in a conservatorship.

So what’s your view? Because from where I sit, she is quite capable of performing ADLs. The fact that she can perform and embark on tours and residencies makes this obvious.

The reason I feel this way is because I put myself in those shoes. I have a right to spend my money and live my life as I see fit, even if other people think I’m being stupid.
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Old 1st August 2021, 10:07 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
So what’s your view? Because from where I sit, she is quite capable of performing ADLs.
My view is that I trust the opinion of family, doctors, and the courts (who have access to real information), more than I trust internet speculation. Until proven otherwise, of course.

Without the full evidence, we are just one step away from being a "truther". If even.
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Old 1st August 2021, 11:02 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, apparently they are expert enough to mount conspiracy theories and call her father and doctors stupid. Got it.
I used the word "stupid" to re-emphasise my previous point since you didn't appear to have got it, because it's a word that does not carry any technical meaning in the mental health field, and because it's the word that she herself used.
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Old 2nd August 2021, 01:19 AM   #475
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
My view is that I trust the opinion of family, doctors, and the courts (who have access to real information), more than I trust internet speculation. Until proven otherwise, of course.

Without the full evidence, we are just one step away from being a "truther". If even.
It seems to me that "conservatorship" is equivalent to institutionalization except that a person who is institutionalized is subject to periodic reviews of their mental status.

Would you say that Brittney Spears should be institutionalized?
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Old 2nd August 2021, 08:37 AM   #476
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Great, unprejudiced argument.
Nothing in what you highlighted is evidence of a prejudiced argument.
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Old 2nd August 2021, 09:35 AM   #477
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Great, unprejudiced argument.
Great dodge. Highlight words you can disagree with, and avoid the entire argument.
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Old 2nd August 2021, 09:51 AM   #478
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
My view is that I trust the opinion of family, doctors, and the courts (who have access to real information), more than I trust internet speculation. Until proven otherwise, of course.

Without the full evidence, we are just one step away from being a "truther". If even.
OK, but let's take Brittney out of the equation. In general, what kinds of mental conditions or circumstances warrant taking someone's autonomy away by putting someone into a conservatorship?

My opinion is that it would only be applied in the most extreme of circumstances. A person would need to be severly mentally incapacitated to the extent that they actually cannot care for themselves anymore because they don't even think about stuff like bathing, eating, shopping, etc -ADLs.
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Old 2nd August 2021, 10:04 AM   #479
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
My view is that I trust the opinion of family, doctors, and the courts (who have access to real information), more than I trust internet speculation. Until proven otherwise, of course.

Without the full evidence, we are just one step away from being a "truther". If even.
It is clear that in many of these cases, the courts just act as a rubber stamp. The courts made what was supposed to be a temporary conservatorship permanent in about 10 months. Her father falsely claimed that she had dementia -- at age 24. After that, like a criminal conviction, the burden of proof fell on her to prove that she didn't deserve it. But unlike an inmate, she wasn't allowed to hire her own doctors or lawyers.

Why would you presume that her family has only her best interests at heart, when many millions of dollars are at stake?
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Old 2nd August 2021, 10:15 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Why would you presume that her family has only her best interests at heart, when many millions of dollars are at stake?
I think we can conclude that Warp's family is very honest and supportive. Unfortunately that's made him a bit naive about people in general.
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