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Tags britney spears , celebrity incidents , celebrity issues

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Old 6th July 2021, 05:43 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
She makes far more in royalties than what she pays this guy.
I don't think you quite understand what a conservatorship is.

She does not pay this guy. She cannot do anything with her own money, without this guy's explicit permission. This guy, pays this guy. And is also authorized to spend her money on things that coincidentally benefit himself independently of his "salary".
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Old 6th July 2021, 11:12 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Did I say my ex wasn't in conservatorship? His brother is in charge of his money and other things. This is how he managed to get out of jail and into supportive housing instead of his usual cycle of release and arrest (for fighting, vagrancy, etc).

Also we have no idea what Spears may have done outside of the public eye.
Oh, I think if she had done anything dramatically worse than we know about, we would know about that, too. She's never really been outside the public eye; the people who make money from her have every incentive to make her look as deranged as they can.
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Old 6th July 2021, 11:33 PM   #83
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So in the last couple days her lawyer, her personal manager and her financial manager have bailed out. This is getting interesting.
https://pagesix.com/2021/07/01/britn...-jamie-issues/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/enter...ip/7870656002/
https://deadline.com/2021/07/britney...ip-1234786585/
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Old 7th July 2021, 12:26 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
90% of our rock gods spent the entire 60s/70s/80s/90s in drug filled stupors destroying their lives and barely (or even not at all) surviving it and nobody decided to put Keith Moon or Ozzy or whoever in a state of permanent legal childhood "for their own good" so... yeah this code ain't compiling for me.
Ozzie's dad let him go to jail for his own good.
It worked!
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Old 7th July 2021, 04:33 AM   #85
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For the sake of argument, let's say that Britney is too unstable to manage her own affairs and needs a conservator.

Is there any good reason why it should remain this conservator? Delusional or not, Spears seems quite clearly to believe that the current set of supervisors do not have her best interests in mind. An atmosphere of open adversity surely is not one that serves her well.

Seems that another conservator from an unpoisoned well could just as easily look after her interests.

Unless, of course, you think that the current crop of supervisors really, really don't want to give up their cash cow to someone else.
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:00 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
For the sake of argument, let's say that Britney is too unstable to manage her own affairs and needs a conservator.

Is there any good reason why it should remain this conservator? Delusional or not, Spears seems quite clearly to believe that the current set of supervisors do not have her best interests in mind. An atmosphere of open adversity surely is not one that serves her well.

Seems that another conservator from an unpoisoned well could just as easily look after her interests.

Unless, of course, you think that the current crop of supervisors really, really don't want to give up their cash cow to someone else.
I don't want to engage in hyperbole here, but her situation's way too close to slavery for my tastes. She's treated like a small child, at best. Is that really necessary? Plenty of people are irresponsible with their lives and don't get this treatment.
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:19 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Plenty of people are irresponsible with their lives and don't get this treatment.
There is a vast difference between being "irresponsible" and being "mentally ill".

We really don't know how sick she is. We do know she is refusing to get evaluated, again. Apparently the other evaluations didn't exactly help her cause.
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:21 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
There is a vast difference between being "irresponsible" and being "mentally ill".

We really don't know how sick she is. We do know she is refusing to get evaluated, again. Apparently the other evaluations didn't exactly help her cause.
Which others?
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:52 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
There is a vast difference between being "irresponsible" and being "mentally ill".
Is there really? There are a LOT of different mental illnesses, and not all of them make you irresponsible.

Plenty of people are mentally ill and don't get this treatment. You still haven't addressed the core of my post.
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Old 7th July 2021, 06:34 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which others?
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.

But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?

"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
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Old 7th July 2021, 06:38 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Did I say my ex wasn't in conservatorship? His brother is in charge of his money and other things. This is how he managed to get out of jail and into supportive housing instead of his usual cycle of release and arrest (for fighting, vagrancy, etc).

Also we have no idea what Spears may have done outside of the public eye.
Was your ex a gazzillionaire celebrity, I doubt it.
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Old 7th July 2021, 06:40 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't want to engage in hyperbole here, but her situation's way too close to slavery for my tastes. She's treated like a small child, at best. Is that really necessary? Plenty of people are irresponsible with their lives and don't get this treatment.
It basically IS a form of slavery, she wants to retire and apparently settle down, and her daddy and parasite team are fighting to prevent it. Ie: forcing her to work, ie: slavery, as mandated by the court system. Slavery is illegal? ********.
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Old 7th July 2021, 06:42 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
There is a vast difference between being "irresponsible" and being "mentally ill".

We really don't know how sick she is. We do know she is refusing to get evaluated, again. Apparently the other evaluations didn't exactly help her cause.
There are millions of folks out there with mental illness, dealing with it in such a way that they have their lives, she does NOT need a conservatorship of her person if she can hold a job, be a joint parent, etc. The people here not seeing this for what is are the reason this was likely possible in the first place. Unless you're a drooling cripple who cant dress themselves, there's no reason for a conservatorship of the person, it's just too open for abuse.
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Old 7th July 2021, 06:49 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by jollyroger85 View Post
Unless you're a drooling cripple who cant dress themselves, there's no reason for a conservatorship of the person
Eloquently spoken, but incorrect.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:00 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.

But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?

"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
I would want to hear more. But I can see a potential general argument here. "Sane" of course is not a binary, so for this context possibly better to say "capable of managing her own life, or choosing the terms of her own assistance."

Maybe she shouldn't have to prove she's capable--maybe someone proposing to control her life for her, against her will, should have to prove that she is not. If I were to be designing the laws around this I would be very interested in making it something that expires and has to be periodically renewed, like every two years or something like that, each time having to demonstrate in court the continued need.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:07 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.
How do you know what were the results of those evaluations?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?

"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
The "telling thing" is that she doesn't have the legal power to refuse such an evaluation. She may not cooperate with such an evaluation, but her conservators may at any time decide that she should have one.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:12 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.

But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?

"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
Yes, I agree. It seems to me she should accept a (probably new) evaluation by a psychiatrist, and try to convince him/her that her conservatorship should end, or at least be partly relaxed.

I suspect she is slightly arrogant, and trying to use her superstar status to try to impose a certain decision she likes without the normal evaluation process.

Quote:
Britney Spears Doesn't Want Mental Health Evaluation 'Because She Doesn't Have Trust' for Her Doctors: Source

A source close to the situation tells PEOPLE in this week's issue that the pop superstar — who wants her conservatorship to end without a mental health evaluation — feels that her doctors "failed her" in the past
(https://people.com/music/britney-spe...octors-source/)
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:14 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Yes, I agree. It seems to me she should accept a (probably new) evaluation by a psychiatrist, and try to convince him/her that her conservatorship should end, or at least be partly relaxed.
Has it occured to you that the reason she doesn't want one is that she tried that before but the doctor would rather believe her conservator?
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:17 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The "telling thing" is that she doesn't have the legal power to refuse such an evaluation. She may not cooperate with such an evaluation, but her conservators may at any time decide that she should have one.
She asked, in court, to be released without being required to have an evaluation. She said she doesn't want another evaluation.

Nothing more to talk about on that. Interpret it however you like.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:19 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Has it occured to you that the reason she doesn't want one is that she tried that before but the doctor would rather believe her conservator?
That's one theory that you could use to build a conspiracy case. Have at it.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:24 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Has it occured to you that the reason she doesn't want one is that she tried that before but the doctor would rather believe her conservator?
This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:46 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That's one theory that you could use to build a conspiracy case. Have at it.
There's no conspiracy needed at all. Just bias and normal social interactions.

You're really committed to the idea that she needs to be locked away.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:48 AM   #103
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Perhaps she does need to be "locked away", I'm not at all assuming she isn't actually crazy. But whether she's crazy or not she shouldn't be a cash cow for other people.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:56 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
She asked, in court, to be released without being required to have an evaluation. She said she doesn't want another evaluation.

Nothing more to talk about on that. Interpret it however you like.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:56 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
No she doesn't.
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:00 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post

You're really committed to the idea that she needs to be locked away.
Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:03 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.
"I really don't understand why these slaves are complaining about all those whippings. If they want to stop being slaves they should hire a lawyer, or petition their representative!"
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:18 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
She can't hire her own lawyer.
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:33 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
You're achieving "Why didn't the slaves just vote to make slavery illegal?" levels of fake, showy obtuseness.
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:35 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're achieving "Why didn't the slaves just vote to make slavery illegal?" levels of fake, showy obtuseness.
You have been ninja'd.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:02 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
.....
Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
Much of the evidence comes from her own mouth. The underlying issue is whether she should have to prove that the conservatorship should end, or whether the people who benefit from her conservatorship should have to prove that it's still required. Whether she is mentally ill is secondary; mental illness is typically treated without imposing a conservatorship. She has essentially been sentenced to house arrest without a trial and without a release date.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:16 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Perhaps she does need to be "locked away", I'm not at all assuming she isn't actually crazy. But whether she's crazy or not she shouldn't be a cash cow for other people.
It is the "cash cow" aspect that renders the whole conservatorship thing suspect. Her dad, the lawyer, and probably a whole bunch of other people are getting way too much money, and have way too much to lose if the conservatorship is ended, for it not to smell really bad. I do remember a lot of press coverage about her erratic behavior before the conservatorship was imposed, but at this point, I have to wonder how much of that was orchestrated by her dad to help make the case for the conservatorship. Whatever Britney's mental state might be, it seems that the conservatorship's primary interest is in generating revenue to keep paying the big fees, not Britney's well being.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:50 AM   #113
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Legalities et cetera apart, what kind of absolute lowlife of a father actually does this kind of thing to his own daughter? What kind of utterly worthless good-for-nothing mooches off their own child all their life like this? That whole bunch of leeches should be stripped of every cent they've made off her, and carted off to jail.
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Old 7th July 2021, 10:37 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Legalities et cetera apart, what kind of absolute lowlife of a father actually does this kind of thing to his own daughter? What kind of utterly worthless good-for-nothing mooches off their own child all their life like this? That whole bunch of leeches should be stripped of every cent they've made off her, and carted off to jail.
Playing devil's advocate: what once might have been a good arrangement, Dad encouraging Britney's creativity and singing, for her own wellbeing and happiness, and taking the pressure off her by dealing with all her bills and stopping some lothario after another getting his hands on loads of her wealth, might have been a good idea once. Now Britney sees it as imprisonment.

I believe her father likely is a bully who has become wealthy through his daughter. However, you recall Agneta in ABBA? She was pursued by a 'fan', - some say stalked - whom she married and I don't think it ended well, with her becoming a recluse on a Swedish island. Then there was Sandy Denny, who some believe died by throwing herself down the stairs. Her 'fan' husband took control of her career and marketed her. Some say these guys do it to line their own pockets, others say they were actually protecting their vulnerable loved one.

There are sharks out there.
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Old 7th July 2021, 10:46 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Playing devil's advocate: what once might have been a good arrangement, Dad encouraging Britney's creativity and singing, for her own wellbeing and happiness, and taking the pressure off her by dealing with all her bills and stopping some lothario after another getting his hands on loads of her wealth, might have been a good idea once. Now Britney sees it as imprisonment.

I believe her father likely is a bully who has become wealthy through his daughter. However, you recall Agneta in ABBA? She was pursued by a 'fan', - some say stalked - whom she married and I don't think it ended well, with her becoming a recluse on a Swedish island. Then there was Sandy Denny, who some believe died by throwing herself down the stairs. Her 'fan' husband took control of her career and marketed her. Some say these guys do it to line their own pockets, others say they were actually protecting their vulnerable loved one.

There are sharks out there.

There are sharks out there aplenty, sure. And the net effect would have been the same for her, had it been someone else doing something similar to her. Just, when some guys "sharks" off this own daughter, that raises it, or lowers it, to a whole different level.

Never really gave Britney Spears a second thought, ever, or even a first thought, before this thing caught my eye.

It's super gross, this business, on two counts. First, the whole slavery angle, for all practical purposes (assuming all --- or most, or even for that matter, some --- of what we're reading here is true, about her being practically coerced to work, and not being allowed to have kids, and so on). And second, that it's her own father doing it.
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Old 7th July 2021, 10:54 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
There are sharks out there aplenty, sure. And the net effect would have been the same for her, had it been someone else doing something similar to her. Just, when some guys "sharks" off this own daughter, that raises it, or lowers it, to a whole different level.

Never really gave Britney Spears a second thought, ever, or even a first thought, before this thing caught my eye.

It's super gross, this business, on two counts. First, the whole slavery angle, for all practical purposes (assuming all --- or most, or even for that matter, some --- of what we're reading here is true, about her being practically coerced to work, and not being allowed to have kids, and so on). And second, that it's her own father doing it.
I recall some of the incidents that happened with Britney leading up to this. She had some kind of nervous breakdown and battle over her children (I might misremember that) and it was terribly sad to witness just how publicly ill she was.

I hope she is now better and manages to handle her own affairs.
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Old 7th July 2021, 12:12 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.

But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?

"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
Which others?

A psych eval led to Britney Spears being deemed incapacitated and that lead to the conservatorship.

From the book, "Guardianship Fraud":
Those with financial assets are targeted by rogue attorneys and guardians who strategically use a conjured "incapacity" which they obtain from their colluding medical providers as a justification to force defenseless adults into a guardianship nightmare – they are living adults in a system of probate laws dealing with the dead. They lose all of their civil rights and liberties. They have less rights than death row prisoners.
Will Britney get an accurate psych evaluation going forward?

Larsen, Michael. Guardianship Fraud. Germain, 2016. Introduction page xii
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Old 7th July 2021, 12:48 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't think you quite understand what a conservatorship is.
The trouble is you're so caught up in your view that you refuse to read for comprehension. Never mind the horrific commas, you're not exactly writing for comprehension.

Quote:
She does not pay this guy.
Except she is paying him. She owns the estate. To choose an article at random -- "Spears has had to pay him $16,000 each month, according to court documents reviewed by Forbes."

If you knew how to argue, you'd dispense with the semantic wanking and stick to the substance: She does not want to pay him, but she's paying him.

Quote:
She cannot do anything with her own money, without this guy's explicit permission.
Overdramatic to the point of lying. He oversees her estate and the court oversees him.

Quote:
This guy, pays this guy. And is also authorized to spend her money on things that coincidentally benefit himself independently of his "salary".
Weak. He's paid a court-ordered salary. Given the size of the estate, he couldn't do it pro-bono if he wanted to. Also, I love the happy play of suggesting malfeasance without the burden of establishing it. The term you're groping for is self-dealing. If he's engaged in self-dealing, then he should be replaced, but the argument is not against this particular conservator as it is against the conservatorship in principle.
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Old 7th July 2021, 01:01 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Overdramatic to the point of lying.
Really, he's the one who cleared up the semantic nonsense in order to cut to the heart of the matter. I don't think either of you is being dishonest, but the point of the matter is that, wording aside, she has no money of her own, effectively speaking.
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Old 7th July 2021, 01:20 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
A psych eval led to Britney Spears being deemed incapacitated and that lead to the conservatorship.

From the book, "Guardianship Fraud":
Those with financial assets are targeted by rogue attorneys and guardians who strategically use a conjured "incapacity" which they obtain from their colluding medical providers as a justification to force defenseless adults into a guardianship nightmare – they are living adults in a system of probate laws dealing with the dead. They lose all of their civil rights and liberties. They have less rights than death row prisoners.
Will Britney get an accurate psych evaluation going forward?

Larsen, Michael. Guardianship Fraud. Germain, 2016. Introduction page xii

The second link in my initial post described an extensive conservatorship fraud in which doctors and judges were complicit. If Spears doesn't want to be examined by a shrink chosen by her conservators, maybe it's because that's how she got locked down in the first place.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...e-their-rights
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