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Tags britney spears , celebrity incidents , celebrity issues

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Old 7th July 2021, 02:13 PM   #121
Cain
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Really, he's the one who cleared up the semantic nonsense in order to cut to the heart of the matter.
Again, his salary is court-ordered, so "This guy, pays this guy" is not just unlettered but false.

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I don't think either of you is being dishonest, but the point of the matter is that, wording aside, she has no money of her own, effectively speaking.
What does this mean? She has no spending money?
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:22 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Again, his salary is court-ordered, so "This guy, pays this guy" is not just unlettered but false.

What does this mean? She has no spending money?
She's on a weekly allowance. She has no direct access to most of her money, certainly not enough to hire her own lawyers and shrinks, even if she was allowed to.
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:31 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
No she doesn't.
The website FreeBritney.net seems to confirm what you wrote:
Quote:
As a conservatee, Britney Spears has been blocked from having custody of her children, choosing her own doctor and medical treatment, and hiring a lawyer of her choice. Her conservators decide whether or not she works, as she cannot enter into contracts for herself because she is legally not her own person. Britney Spears needs permission from her conservators to leave her house or spend any of her own money.

Britney's conservators maintain that she is too disabled due to dementia to care for herself despite an active career and personal life. During the thirteen years of Spears's conservatorship she has repeatedly toured the world, released multiple albums, and worked on a variety of television shows. The judge who initially approved the permanent probate conservatorship stated that it was for protecting her finances and businesses.
(https://www.freebritney.net/)

But this seems rather theoretical to me (she is not in jail).

Does she really have armed guards in her house, who would be ready to use physical violence if she attempted to talk to the doctor across the street?
I am not aware of that. She is, as far as I know (this is the U.S.) entitled to her First Amendment rights (freedom of speech, and also the right to assemble). As for paying the (doctor's) bill, if this was really necessary, many of her fans or supporters would probably be ready to help.
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:38 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
....
She is, as far as I know (this is the U.S.) entitled to her First Amendment rights (freedom of speech, and also the right to assemble). As for paying the (doctor's) bill, if this was really necessary, many of her fans or supporters would probably be ready to help.
To repeat, she has no rights. She is legally a child. She is subject to continuous supervision, like any 10-year-old.
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Old 7th July 2021, 02:39 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
She's on a weekly allowance.
Which adds up to over 100K/year -- a spending allowance that far exceeds the average American (and does not count housing costs, staff, child support payments, etc).

Quote:
She has no direct access to most of her money...
Which is kinda the point. If she got a monkey named "Bubbles," I'm sure fans would be cheering her on. As far as hiring her own lawyers and doctors, well, it's not like pop-stars are notorious for choosing yes-men. There are court-appointed doctors and lawyers...
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Old 7th July 2021, 03:45 PM   #126
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Anybody make a incredibly annoyning video rant about this yet?

Seems to me that convervatorships should be for a limited time and automatically come up for review when they expire. But I guess lawyers might make less money that way.
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Old 7th July 2021, 03:47 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
What does this mean? She has no spending money?
Cain, come on. You've been reading the thread, haven't you?
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Old 7th July 2021, 04:58 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Cain, come on. You've been reading the thread, haven't you?
"She has no money of her own" means she merely has a hundred thousand dollars a year to kick around. The things that matter are the things that have always mattered: autonomy, community, friendship, love, and so on, but here's the monkey-wrench: she's mentally troubled. She's so far gone that full custody of her kids has been awarded to Kevin Federline. He's the superior parent. I understand that women do not have much of a choice when it comes to having kids with K-Fed, but she chose to marry Kevin Super-Sperm Federline. After she drunk-married some dude in Vegas.

Like the Woody Allen nonsense, this hashtag activism probably gets traction in the court of public opinion because that's where ******** flourishes.
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:25 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
"She has no money of her own" means she merely has a hundred thousand dollars a year to kick around.
If she has permission. She can't spend it at will.
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Old 7th July 2021, 07:34 PM   #130
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To some extent, it's not just drawing a conclusion about whether Ms. Spears is being wronged, but studying the system and wondering if there are sufficient safeguards in place. If the grievances she makes are true, if she's right about not needing all this, would there be a reliable way to stop it? If that's not an obvious yes, that's rather scary.
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:51 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
To some extent, it's not just drawing a conclusion about whether Ms. Spears is being wronged, but studying the system and wondering if there are sufficient safeguards in place. If the grievances she makes are true, if she's right about not needing all this, would there be a reliable way to stop it? If that's not an obvious yes, that's rather scary.

That actually seems pretty easy. The conservatorship is really intended for people who are permanently disabled, as from Alzheimer's or brain injury. In the case of somebody like Spears, who could be expected to recover from her crisis, it should be reviewed at least every year, maybe more often, and it should be up to the people asking for it to prove that it's necessary and that less stringent treatment wouldn't be effective. It shouldn't be up to the subject to prove that it should end.

I note that according to the New Yorker article, at one point Spears' father apparently signed a form that Spears, around 24 at the time, was suffering from dementia. That would be part of the documentation of her case. It should be up to anyone making a claim like that to prove it, not up to her to prove otherwise.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:18 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I note that according to the New Yorker article, at one point Spears' father apparently signed a form that Spears, around 24 at the time, was suffering from dementia. That would be part of the documentation of her case. It should be up to anyone making a claim like that to prove it, not up to her to prove otherwise.
Psychosis is a known risk for people with bipolar disorder, but not dementia.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:37 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
If she has permission. She can't spend it at will.
What does that even mean? She wants to order something from -- I dunno -- the Piggly Wiggly or the gift shop at Cracker Barrel, but her father must personally approve each and every kitschy bauble? And you know this for a fact -- it's not based on a Spears' rantings or the FreeBritney people (who sound like QAnon with a lisp). I understand Republicans outraged the Deep Court has commandeered her finances, but liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
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Old 8th July 2021, 05:38 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The second link in my initial post described an extensive conservatorship fraud in which doctors and judges were complicit. If Spears doesn't want to be examined by a shrink chosen by her conservators, maybe it's because that's how she got locked down in the first place.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...e-their-rights
she was quoted basically saying that just this morning. Hopefully the publicity will shut this court order quasi slavery down and give her her life back. Screw daddy.....
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Old 8th July 2021, 05:39 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
What does that even mean?
I thought that was very simple English.

Quote:
liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but it seems like you have an axe to grind that is blinding you on this topic.
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Old 8th July 2021, 05:54 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Psychosis is a known risk for people with bipolar disorder, but not dementia.
and yet not everyone with psychosis, just like bipolarism, is now a massively repressive conservator ship.
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Old 8th July 2021, 07:01 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
What does that even mean? She wants to order something from -- I dunno -- the Piggly Wiggly or the gift shop at Cracker Barrel, but her father must personally approve each and every kitschy bauble? And you know this for a fact -- it's not based on a Spears' rantings or the FreeBritney people (who sound like QAnon with a lisp). I understand Republicans outraged the Deep Court has commandeered her finances, but liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:06 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I thought that was very simple English.
Simple English is not necessarily unambiguous -- and now you're being characteristically weasley. "She has no money of her own" meant over a hundred K to shop, but "she needs permission." I followed the question with a straight-forward scenario to illustrate its meaning. There's a significant difference when it comes to itemized permission versus being granted open-ended at approved various stores versus something else entirely.

It's like pulling teeth. Google "Britney Spears Shopping"

Quote:
I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but it seems like you have an axe to grind that is blinding you on this topic.
Nah. That's just you skirting around the substance with a fallacy of irrelevance.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:46 AM   #139
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Britney's mom is on her side.
Quote:
Britney Spears’ mother, Lynne Spears, asked the Los Angeles Superior Court to allow the pop star to select her own legal representation so she can start the process of ending the conservatorship that has restricted her rights for 13 years.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lynne...b0f79e8fe6fb25

Quote:
In a petition filed Tuesday with the L.A. County Superior Court, Lynne Spears requested that her middle child be allowed to hire her own private attorney, or to have the court appoint an attorney of the singer’s choosing.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...torney-request
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:47 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
The biggest hurdle is the permission of the judge.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:47 AM   #141
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Britney is 41 years old.
God, that makes me feel old.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:53 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
What does that even mean? She wants to order something from -- I dunno -- the Piggly Wiggly or the gift shop at Cracker Barrel, but her father must personally approve each and every kitschy bauble? And you know this for a fact -- it's not based on a Spears' rantings or the FreeBritney people (who sound like QAnon with a lisp). I understand Republicans outraged the Deep Court has commandeered her finances, but liberals are living up to a stereotype of paternalism-for-everyone-except-the-mentally-ill.
The issue isn't even whether Spears has mental illness. The issue is whether she is so extremely unwell that she can't be treated -- or seek treatment for herself -- without applying a legal tool that is intended for people with advanced Alzheimer's or brain injuries. She is functional enough to make hundreds of millions of dollars in a grueling concert schedule, from which her conservators benefit greatly.

Most people with mental illness don't become prisoners of their greedy fathers.

Last edited by Bob001; 8th July 2021 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:54 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Britney is 41 years old.
God, that makes me feel old.
39, actually. Born 1981. Feel better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:57 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
39, actually. Born 1981. Feel better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britney_Spears
//Slight Hijack//

That's weird. For some reason 41 was sticking in my head as her age as well. I could swear I heard her referred to her as that age in reporting of this dispute.

Probably a brain fart.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:57 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Simple English is not necessarily unambiguous
Granted.

Quote:
and now you're being characteristically weasley.
There's nothing "weasley" about what I said. You might think it was hyperbolic, although I wouldn't agree, but if you can't spend the money you have as you want, then it's not your money. You're the one who's being too literal.

Quote:
Nah. That's just you skirting around the substance with a fallacy of irrelevance.
I'm the one who provided the substance! What a ******* crock.
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Old 8th July 2021, 11:47 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The issue isn't even whether Spears has mental illness. The issue is whether she is so extremely unwell that she can't be treated -- or seek treatment for herself -- without applying a legal tool that is intended for people with advanced Alzheimer's or brain injuries. She is functional enough to make hundreds of millions of dollars in a grueling concert schedule, from which her conservators benefit greatly.

Most people with mental illness don't become prisoners of their greedy fathers.

As I see it there are three aspects to these (and you did good to bring up and to discuss in such detail this issue here, that might otherwise not have drawn [many] people's attention [as likely it wouldn't have drawn mine]):

First, the broad principle of overreach and/or misuse of the principle and provisions of conversatorship. Like you've discussed yourself here, and as it, apparently, applies particularly to the aged. And as it might apply to Britney Spears as well.

Second, Britney Spear's specific case. It seems in her case it goes well beyond a general misuse of the provisions of conservatorship, into something approaching fraud. (For instance, after reading this thread I did some quick clicking around to check some of the facts for myself, and I came across this NYT article --- that I don't have the link just now, but shouldn't be too difficult to locate, either by someone else or else by me --- where the lawyer who'd originally testified against Britney and was instrumental in getting this conservatorship in place is on record saying she deeply regrets what she'd done, and that she thought at the time she was helping Britney, but has now come to see that she has been an inadvertent party to an exploitative arrangement.

And thirdly, and most conspicuously, that low-life of a father mooching off of Britney Spears. Apparently --- and I again reference that same NYT article, and should someone demand for it I guess I could hunt out the link again --- his own career was entirely pedestrian, not even a pedestrian professional but simply a pedestrian tradesman. (Which is not to denigrate pedestrian tradesmen in the slightest, but only to point out this man's qualifications or lack of them.) This man seems to have made a career of living off his daughter's earnings, and seems to have been doing it for years and years and years together, and doing it against his daughter's wishes. What exactly are this man's qualifications for handling this delicate situation, and this large estate, and in the process drawing a salary a fraction of which he'd have been hard pressed to earn otherwise? (And probably plenty of other perks as well, but there I guess Cain is right, one shouldn't claim that latter without being able to back up that claim.)

Thing is, regardless of the first two points, and even if it turns out that, first, conservatorship is a perfectly cromulent arrangement, and, two, that Britney's interests are best served by a conservatorship, even then, given that sh'e clearly paying top dollar, why on earth must she be saddled with this creep of a father who has no qualifications for the job, and whom she herself doesn't want around? Why has he been allowed to stick on against her wishes for long, he specifically?

This absolutely needs to be properly investigated, and, as Britney Spears herslef says (again in that NYT article), her father should be carted off to jail if it turns out that he's guilty of misrepresenting her case.

Last edited by Chanakya; 8th July 2021 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 9th July 2021, 12:53 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
....
This absolutely needs to be properly investigated, and, as Britney Spears herslef says (again in that NYT article), her father should be carted off to jail if it turns out that he's guilty of misrepresenting her case.

You might mean this:

Quote:
But now, confidential court records obtained by The New York Times reveal that Ms. Spears, 39, expressed serious opposition to the conservatorship earlier and more often than had previously been known, and said that it restricted everything from whom she dated to the color of her kitchen cabinets.

“She articulated she feels the conservatorship has become an oppressive and controlling tool against her,” a court investigator wrote in a 2016 report. The system had “too much control,” Ms. Spears said, according to the investigator’s account of the conversation. “Too, too much!”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/a...ultPosition=45
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Old 9th July 2021, 01:50 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The issue isn't even whether Spears has mental illness. The issue is whether she is so extremely unwell that she can't be treated -- or seek treatment for herself -- without applying a legal tool that is intended for people with advanced Alzheimer's or brain injuries.
I suspect the judge is aware of this. I also suspect the judge has a better understanding of Spears' mental illness than you, me, or the FreeBritney activists. Ideally, there's more public oversight, but medical records are by nature intensely private.

And Spears refuses to be re-evaluated.

Quote:
Most people with mental illness don't become prisoners of their greedy fathers.
It's strange how people are so confident in their proclamations while operating in relative darkness. The prisoner has a boyfriend she loves, access to social media, and tens of thousands of dollars.

I want to say most people with mental illness do not become multi-millionaires. This guy is a show-biz parent who raised Britney Spears. As far as I'm concerned, that's two strikes against him. Yet the judge consistently rules in his favor.


Quote:
She is functional enough to make hundreds of millions of dollars in a grueling concert schedule, from which her conservators benefit greatly.
Even if the father is replaced, someone will inevitably benefit from overseeing her estate (death threats notwithstanding). The asset managers who do not take a fee are the ones who end up costing the most. It's also totally understandable that the state is predisposed to award a conservatorship to a family member.

Lots of people in the entertainment industry are capable of earning tons of money, but not managing it (example: Johnny Debt). That make tens of millions despite being fall-down drunks and drug-addicts. Maybe Britney Spears should have that same freedom to blow through a fortune that could sustain her bloodline for several generations. Excuse me if I have doubts about the people casting villains and engaging in overheated rhetoric.
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Old 9th July 2021, 01:57 AM   #149
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
And Spears refuses to be re-evaluated.
She refuses to be re-evaluated by the same people who put her in this position in the first place. I think that's an extremely reasonable stance.
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Old 9th July 2021, 02:00 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
There's nothing "weasley" about what I said. You might think it was hyperbolic, although I wouldn't agree, but if you can't spend the money you have as you want, then it's not your money. You're the one who's being too literal.
I think that when it comes to "permission," you have no idea what you're talking about. We don't really know the nature of this relationship, but that's not stopping people from filling in the blanks with their worst fears.

The evil government treats me like a child when it takes away MY money for Social Security. Never mind that I could get a much better return than the state, or that I have a credit score in excess of 800.

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I'm the one who provided the substance! What a ******* crock.
Agree to agree that you're wrong.
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Old 9th July 2021, 02:08 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
She refuses to be re-evaluated by the same people who put her in this position in the first place. I think that's an extremely reasonable stance.
Except that is not her stated stance. She didn't say, "I am willing to be evaluated by a different team of court-appointed doctors". She just says, she doesn't want to be evaluated. Her implication is that she shouldn't have to be evaluated.

She is free to have that opinion; but, if the court doesn't agree, that is a reasonable stance.
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Old 9th July 2021, 02:53 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I think that when it comes to "permission," you have no idea what you're talking about. We don't really know the nature of this relationship, but that's not stopping people from filling in the blanks with their worst fears.
No, I think you don't know the nature of this relationship because you selectively discount some of the data we have, for no apparent reason, and then you presume that this ignorance extends to everyone.

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The evil government treats me like a child when it takes away MY money for Social Security.
No it doesn't. Now you're playing word games.
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Old 9th July 2021, 05:41 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I suspect the judge is aware of this. I also suspect the judge has a better understanding of Spears' mental illness than you, me, or the FreeBritney activists. Ideally, there's more public oversight, but medical records are by nature intensely private.

And Spears refuses to be re-evaluated.



It's strange how people are so confident in their proclamations while operating in relative darkness. The prisoner has a boyfriend she loves, access to social media, and tens of thousands of dollars.

I want to say most people with mental illness do not become multi-millionaires. This guy is a show-biz parent who raised Britney Spears. As far as I'm concerned, that's two strikes against him. Yet the judge consistently rules in his favor.




Even if the father is replaced, someone will inevitably benefit from overseeing her estate (death threats notwithstanding). The asset managers who do not take a fee are the ones who end up costing the most. It's also totally understandable that the state is predisposed to award a conservatorship to a family member.

Lots of people in the entertainment industry are capable of earning tons of money, but not managing it (example: Johnny Debt). That make tens of millions despite being fall-down drunks and drug-addicts. Maybe Britney Spears should have that same freedom to blow through a fortune that could sustain her bloodline for several generations. Excuse me if I have doubts about the people casting villains and engaging in overheated rhetoric.
Excuse me for finding your forgiveness of such a brazen robbery of their fundamental rights sickening. People all over have a free to screw up their lives royally. The hearing for the conservativetorship back in 2008 was less than 10 minutes...... that only is incredibly fishy.

Bipolarism doesnt justify court mandated slavery.
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Old 9th July 2021, 05:43 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Except that is not her stated stance. She didn't say, "I am willing to be evaluated by a different team of court-appointed doctors". She just says, she doesn't want to be evaluated. Her implication is that she shouldn't have to be evaluated.

She is free to have that opinion; but, if the court doesn't agree, that is a reasonable stance.
The original hearing was under 10 minutes, the courts failed her 13 years ago, nothing they have to say at this point is reasonable, this is about nothing more than money and exploitation.
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Old 9th July 2021, 07:19 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
.....
Lots of people in the entertainment industry are capable of earning tons of money, but not managing it (example: Johnny Debt). That make tens of millions despite being fall-down drunks and drug-addicts. Maybe Britney Spears should have that same freedom to blow through a fortune that could sustain her bloodline for several generations. Excuse me if I have doubts about the people casting villains and engaging in overheated rhetoric.

Yes, as an adult she should have the same freedom other adults have to make bad decisions. Johnny Depp was never put into conservatorship, despite far more serious misconduct, including crimes. "Sustain her bloodline?" What kind of drivel is that? The fact is that she has been permanently deprived of her rights through a legal process that was never intended for this purpose. It should be up to authorities to prove that her conservatorship is required for her own safety, not up to her to prove that it's not. And the state has no interest in "sustaining her bloodline."

If you look at her history, she became her family's meal ticket when she was about 11. They provided her with limited education and promoted her for maximum returns. Her father is an abusive drunk. The great tragedy of her life is that nobody called CPS when she really was a child, instead of treating her as one now.

The broader issue is that this could happen to anybody who has something somebody else wants. If you've got some money and some greedy relatives, look out. I repost this link:
Quote:
In the United States, a million and a half adults are under the care of guardians, either family members or professionals, who control some two hundred and seventy-three billion dollars in assets, according to an auditor for the guardianship fraud program in Palm Beach County. Little is known about the outcome of these arrangements, because states do not keep complete figures on guardianship cases—statutes vary widely—and, in most jurisdictions, the court records are sealed.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...e-their-rights
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Old 9th July 2021, 07:20 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post

Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
The biggest hurdle is the permission of the judge.

Yes:

The biggest hurdle to end the conservatorship is based on the decision/permission of one judge.

Why? One judge is the ultimate and sole decision-maker. No public courtroom jury will hear the facts and vote to end Britney's conservatorship.

This is one of the problems in a broken and corrupt probate court system.

Britney's conservatorship will be decided by one judge using their judicial discretion.

Judicial discretion means the judge can use their powers to make a decision based on his or her individualized evaluation, guided by the principles of law. Judicial discretion gives courts immense power which is exercised when legislature allows for it. [1]

source:

[1] Cornell Law School. "judicial discretion" Legal Information Institute.
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Old 9th July 2021, 07:27 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
Yes, this is the biggest hurdle...the decision/permission of a judge to end the conservatorship.

Why? One judge is the ultimate and sole decision-maker. No public courtroom jury will hear the facts and vote to end Britney's conservatorship.

This is one of the problems in a broken and corrupt probate court system.

Britney's conservatorship will be decided by one judge using their judicial discretion.

Judicial discretion means the judge can use their powers to make a decision based on his or her individualized evaluation, guided by the principles of law. Judicial discretion gives courts immense power which is exercised when legislature allows for it.
.....
It's actually worse than that. In criminal and civil proceedings, a judge's decisions and a jury's verdict can be appealed at multiple levels. In Spears' case, it doesn't appear that there's an appeals process. Our legal system was never intended to empower dictators.
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Old 9th July 2021, 07:28 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I expect the biggest hurdle for doing things like getting her own lawyer, is not the cash on hand necessarily, but being unable to enter binding contracts on her own.
She did hire her own lawyer, and the court ruled that since she's not allowed to under the terms of her conservatorship that she could not have hired her own lawyer. If she does, then it's literally legally deemed not to have happened.
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Old 9th July 2021, 08:23 AM   #159
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Truly amazing. The more one hears of this, the more bizarre --- and wholly outrageous --- the whole thing seems.



And, it occurs to me, apart from the legal effort, this is a case where public opinion, pubic outrage, if loud enough and concerted enough and over a large enough base, can actually help make a difference. Both to Britney Spear's individual case, as well as this bizarre institution, that is apparently often directed against the elderly. Many did not even know that such a bizarre system exists at all, like I didn't. It's good that it's all coming out into the open like this, and creating a public outcry.

Let's hope the public outcry results in reform, both for this specific case and, eventually, at a systemic level as well. Britney Spears is at least, while not young, but not elderly and incapacitated. She's young enough and healthy enough and lucid enough and, most importantly, popular enough, to have her case brought to people's attention. Imagine the plight of those elderly people who might be victims of this system. Who can they appeal to, to whose notice will those unfortunates bring their plight? Let's hope this case makes such a big splash that they too end up getting benefited, at a systemic level.
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Old 9th July 2021, 08:25 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Yes, as an adult she should have the same freedom other adults have to make bad decisions. Johnny Depp was never put into conservatorship, despite far more serious misconduct, including crimes. "Sustain her bloodline?" What kind of drivel is that? The fact is that she has been permanently deprived of her rights through a legal process that was never intended for this purpose. It should be up to authorities to prove that her conservatorship is required for her own safety, not up to her to prove that it's not. And the state has no interest in "sustaining her bloodline."

If you look at her history, she became her family's meal ticket when she was about 11. They provided her with limited education and promoted her for maximum returns. Her father is an abusive drunk. The great tragedy of her life is that nobody called CPS when she really was a child, instead of treating her as one now.

The broader issue is that this could happen to anybody who has something somebody else wants. If you've got some money and some greedy relatives, look out. I repost this link:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...e-their-rights
I bet Johnny Depp wishes he had been under conservatorship, after blowing his entire wealth on a libel case against a p!sspoor hack in a populist tabloid SUN Dan Wootton, whom I promise you nobody ever read, let alone retained a memory of what he did write twenty nanoseconds later, for mentioning in passing Depp was a wife beater; known in the UK as 'banter'. Well Depp got the fan worship on the steps of the High Court but I bet he now wakes up in the morning thinking, 'OMG! WHAT WAS I THINKING?! Now the entire world knows I'm a wife beater...and I'll never work again...'

Maybe Depp is technically mentally ill but the effect of excess drug taking and alcohol can have the same serious impact on your behaviour...and consequent downfall. On the plus side, Britney has been protected from adverse publicity, blowing all of her money and will live confortably well into old age.
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