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Tags ghosts , haunted houses

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Old 6th July 2021, 10:08 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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My Haunted house and ghost theory put to the test

Here in Conyers where I live there is an alleged haunted house. It was built in the late 18th century and it is very large. It is two stories high but the very large attic might as well a third story. It is often unoccupied and almost all of the people which have had offices there or a Antique or restaurant there have reported spectral activity with one women allegedly seeing a ghost that unnerved her so much she was briefly hospitalized.

Ok I have a Jewish friend who not only does not believe in ghosts he pooh poohs the very idea. I agree with him but I do have my theory. A large enclosed area in mankinds developemental stages were rare and always occupied. I believe humans as a survival mechanism have been genetically wired to subconsciencly believe such an area is occupied either by animals or humans.

Ok the house becomes unoccupied and I see an open door. I call my skeptical Jewish friend to explore this large spooky old house.

Exploring around the lower floor no spectre appeared. Going up the stairs was another matter. The steps creaked all the way up.

Ok reaching the top floor we looked around seeing nothing. Them a door slammed hard. It scared the both of us. Going to the door no one was there but I attributed the event to an air current mixed with a slight slant of the floor. I was going to say something when the stairs started creaking. Thinking someone was coming up the stairs I was a bit scared but not because of a ghost I thought the owner of the house might not like us being there. No one was on the stairs. I think what happened was the step we walked on were pushed down by our feet and they were creaking back up again.

Milton S my Jewish companion was getting unnerved. He balked at going to the attic.

Its all psychological. Big enclosed places are supposed to be inhabited. To be in a house this large where no one occupies did not used to happen. We people such places with our minds.

A Mexican law firm now occupies every nook and cranny of this house and no reports of ghosts.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:11 AM   #2
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I see barely a ghost of a hypothesis, and no testing at all.

Also, this anecdote had way more backstory than was actually necessary to describe a hypothesis and a test.

Also, this anecdote was weirdly racial.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:26 AM   #3
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You have a Jewish friend named Milton?

That seems a bit on the nose.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:29 AM   #4
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Slightly Weird

I agree that OP has weird racial elements to it... what does the friend being Jewish or the law firm being Mexican have anything to do with the experiment? Secondly, as to the hypothesis - if humans are genetically hard wired to believe large enclosed spaces are to be occupied which then accounts for a psychological effect of believing random sounds in unoccupied spaces are the result of a paranormal element, what accounts for haunted bridges or spooky woods or other unenclosed spaces?
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:49 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I see barely a ghost of a hypothesis, and no testing at all.

Also, this anecdote had way more backstory than was actually necessary to describe a hypothesis and a test.

Also, this anecdote was weirdly racial.
For your information Milton S is a lifelong friend and mentor. I would not trade him for anyone of any description. Milton is well educated and is a very down to earth person who thinks even a slight belief in spooks is silly and immature. I'm sorry you disliked my story. I wanted to present an example of my theory on the belief in ghosts and if my embellishment and story telling offends you then please accept my apologies.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:52 AM   #6
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Might have been a ghost, based on the provided evidence.

Also, not even a ghost can tolerate being in the presence of a group of lawyers. So, no surprise on that front.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:55 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by LifeJuror View Post
I agree that OP has weird racial elements to it... what does the friend being Jewish or the law firm being Mexican have anything to do with the experiment? Secondly, as to the hypothesis - if humans are genetically hard wired to believe large enclosed spaces are to be occupied which then accounts for a psychological effect of believing random sounds in unoccupied spaces are the result of a paranormal element, what accounts for haunted bridges or spooky woods or other unenclosed spaces?
Actually Bridges are kind of enclosed places. People commit suicide by jumping off of bridges and the space under a bridge has a covering aka the bridge itself. Not enclosed but there is a roof of sorts. As for haunted woods here again woods are kind of enclosed by a tree canopy and forests have plenty of places where things aren't visible. Hence they tend to be spooky.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
For your information Milton S is a lifelong friend and mentor. I would not trade him for anyone of any description. Milton is well educated and is a very down to earth person who thinks even a slight belief in spooks is silly and immature.
Okay, okay, I get it. One of your best friends is Jewish.

Quote:
I'm sorry you disliked my story. I wanted to present an example of my theory on the belief in ghosts and if my embellishment and story telling offends you then please accept my apologies.
Skeptical inquiry is not really a good place for embellished storytelling. You need to make up your mind about whether you're describing an experimental setup or posting a diary entry.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:56 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Also, not even a ghost can tolerate being in the presence of a group of lawyers. So, no surprise on that front.
Well played.
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Old 6th July 2021, 10:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by LifeJuror View Post
I agree that OP has weird racial elements to it... what does the friend being Jewish or the law firm being Mexican have anything to do with the experiment? Secondly, as to the hypothesis - if humans are genetically hard wired to believe large enclosed spaces are to be occupied which then accounts for a psychological effect of believing random sounds in unoccupied spaces are the result of a paranormal element, what accounts for haunted bridges or spooky woods or other unenclosed spaces?
Jews as far as I know not only do not believe in ghosts but think people who do are foolish. Nothing racial about it. Miltons a friend who is Jewish. Whats the problem? As for the Mexican law office being in the building now ghosts are part of Mexican culture. Mexicans do not like ghosts hence it surprises me that Mexicans now occupy the building which is allegedly haunted.
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Old 6th July 2021, 12:00 PM   #11
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I feel like you glossed over the race of the alleged ghosts? On a scale from Casper to Dementor, how ethnic we talking, here?
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Old 6th July 2021, 01:47 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I feel like you glossed over the race of the alleged ghosts? On a scale from Casper to Dementor, how ethnic we talking, here?
The ghosts in my story do not exist. They would be caucasian if they did.
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Jews as far as I know not only do not believe in ghosts but think people who do are foolish. Nothing racial about it. Miltons a friend who is Jewish. Whats the problem? As for the Mexican law office being in the building now ghosts are part of Mexican culture. Mexicans do not like ghosts hence it surprises me that Mexicans now occupy the building which is allegedly haunted.
Dude, this is entirely racial. You're literally using different racial/ethnic stereotypes as benchmarks for superstitious reasoning. It doesn't really get more racial than, "Mexicans do not like ghosts hence it surprises me that Mexicans now occupy the building which is allegedly haunted."
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dude, this is entirely racial. You're literally using different racial/ethnic stereotypes as benchmarks for superstitious reasoning. It doesn't really get more racial than, "Mexicans do not like ghosts hence it surprises me that Mexicans now occupy the building which is allegedly haunted."
Typical. Looking for any small reason to discredit the research.
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:37 PM   #15
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"Research."
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dude, this is entirely racial. You're literally using different racial/ethnic stereotypes as benchmarks for superstitious reasoning. It doesn't really get more racial than, "Mexicans do not like ghosts hence it surprises me that Mexicans now occupy the building which is allegedly haunted."
Hey man, this is not racial. He already said that if the ghosts existed, they'd be proper caucasian ones.

I wonder if those wetback lawyers brought their own Holey Frijole ghosts? You know those hard pipe-hittin spirit hombres would properly tune a pasty cracker ghost's ass. Just sayin.
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:40 PM   #17
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Will the ghosts throw tortillas?
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:42 PM   #18
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Would the ghost throw a latke?
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Old 6th July 2021, 02:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Here in Conyers where I live there is an alleged haunted house. It was built in the late 18th century and it is very large. It is two stories high but the very large attic might as well a third story. It is often unoccupied and almost all of the people which have had offices there or a Antique or restaurant there have reported spectral activity with one women allegedly seeing a ghost that unnerved her so much she was briefly hospitalized.

Ok I have a Jewish friend who not only does not believe in ghosts he pooh poohs the very idea. I agree with him but I do have my theory. A large enclosed area in mankinds developemental stages were rare and always occupied. I believe humans as a survival mechanism have been genetically wired to subconsciencly believe such an area is occupied either by animals or humans.

Ok the house becomes unoccupied and I see an open door. I call my skeptical Jewish friend to explore this large spooky old house.

Exploring around the lower floor no spectre appeared. Going up the stairs was another matter. The steps creaked all the way up.

Ok reaching the top floor we looked around seeing nothing. Them a door slammed hard. It scared the both of us. Going to the door no one was there but I attributed the event to an air current mixed with a slight slant of the floor. I was going to say something when the stairs started creaking. Thinking someone was coming up the stairs I was a bit scared but not because of a ghost I thought the owner of the house might not like us being there. No one was on the stairs. I think what happened was the step we walked on were pushed down by our feet and they were creaking back up again.

Milton S my Jewish companion was getting unnerved. He balked at going to the attic.

Its all psychological. Big enclosed places are supposed to be inhabited. To be in a house this large where no one occupies did not used to happen. We people such places with our minds.

A Mexican law firm now occupies every nook and cranny of this house and no reports of ghosts.
Did you mean Thesis put to the test?

To sum it up, you psyched yourselves out. Yes, this is why people report ghosts in old buildings and old empty buildings.
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Old 6th July 2021, 03:51 PM   #20
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Would the ghost eat a taco bowl?
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Old 6th July 2021, 06:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Would the ghost eat a taco bowl?
That would make a great plot for a Day of the Dead movie.
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Old 7th July 2021, 04:54 AM   #22
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It is the Return of the Curse of the Ghost of Ryan O'Malley O'Schoenburg, the Drunken, Irish, Jew!
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Old 7th July 2021, 05:11 AM   #23
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This is slightly off topic, but after reading this thread I was inspired and came across this Wiki, entitled, "The History of the Jews in Mexico". At first I thought it was about an unreleased Mel Brooks film, but it is actually just what the title says.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hist...Jews_in_Mexico

Now, back to the ghosts. Human perception is interesting to me. I like to hear practical explanations for what we would call "strange" sensations. Things like feelings of "being watched", or that "someone walked over your grave", the hair on your neck standing on end,.etc.. I know there have been times when my nervous system triggered a heightened awareness, and I had no clue as to why
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
(snip) I know there have been times when my nervous system triggered a heightened awareness, and I had no clue as to why
Existential angst. Or sometimes bad gefilte fish or churros.
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Old 7th July 2021, 09:29 AM   #25
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This has been my favorite internet thread to read in at least a week. Thanks, everyone.
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Old 7th July 2021, 10:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Would the ghost eat a taco bowl?
Will it give you chillies down your spine?
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Old 7th July 2021, 03:59 PM   #27
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The problem with running an "experiment" in a "haunted" building is that you can't be your own test subject. Psychological tests are worthless when performed on one's self since the answers will almost always be subjective.

You'd need a control group of strangers who are mentally fit, and two or more test buildings. One building should be run-down and the other should be well kept. You hand the test subject clipboards with well thought out questions and send them inside.

My experience is that old, abandoned buildings tend to creep people out which leads to rumors of everything from hauntings to devil worshiping in the basement(or attic).

And there is research to back this up:

https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wil...12603321661886

This is the BBC's write-up of the report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4564383.stm
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Old 7th July 2021, 04:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The problem with running an "experiment" in a "haunted" building is that you can't be your own test subject. Psychological tests are worthless when performed on one's self since the answers will almost always be subjective.

You'd need a control group of strangers who are mentally fit, and two or more test buildings. One building should be run-down and the other should be well kept. You hand the test subject clipboards with well thought out questions and send them inside.

My experience is that old, abandoned buildings tend to creep people out which leads to rumors of everything from hauntings to devil worshiping in the basement(or attic).

And there is research to back this up:

https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wil...12603321661886

This is the BBC's write-up of the report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4564383.stm
What kinds of questions would you pose?
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Old 7th July 2021, 04:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
What kinds of questions would you pose?
And how do you insure that the houses are not in fact haunted, whether by proper Caucasian ghosts or some of those pipe hittin Mexican ones?
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Old 7th July 2021, 08:06 PM   #30
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There is some truth that Mexican culture is superstitious . . . But the idea that people with Mexican sounding names that own a law firm are “Mexicans” in a cultural or place of origin sense is, uh…problematic.

My wife’s maiden name is very Mexican sounding. Not a Mexican. Doesn’t believe in ghosts.

My dad’s side of the family is pretty dang white. Very much believes in ghosts.

Foolishness knows no racial/ethnic/cultural bounds.

As to your theory, yes, ghosts are a psychological phenomenon. It’s all about being primed by a belief. If I enter a creepy abandoned building, I wouldn’t be scared of ghosts, I’d be scared of the people who might be squatting there. Or spiders. Or other animals.
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Old 7th July 2021, 10:53 PM   #31
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I disagree, I have seen goats with my very own eyes! Even heard them!
They are real, I'm telling you! They are REAL!
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Old 8th July 2021, 06:11 AM   #32
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For me, the interesting phrase was “reputed to be haunted”.
I recall reading a Skeptical Inquirer experiment where different groups of people were invited to stay overnight in an old home. One group was told that the place was supposed to be haunted. They reported the expected strange sounds, drafts, etc.

The other group was told nothing, and reported nothing.
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Old 8th July 2021, 08:50 AM   #33
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I'm obliged to refer to the infamous New York court case of Stambovsky v. Ackley, in which the mere reputation of a haunting became legally cognizable. Appellant Stambovsky entered into a contract with Ackley to buy Ackley's house at a designated price. Ackley had previously reported in the national media anecdotes supporting his belief that the house was haunted. This was not disclosed to Stambovskey, who then sued to rescind the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation. The appellate court ruled that, as a matter of law, the house was haunted whether or not ghosts actually existed and were actually present in the house, noting defensibly that the mere reputation of a haunting affects a property's value. Poltergeists are not covered under caveat emptor because they would not necessarily be revealed even by a diligent inspection.
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Old 8th July 2021, 10:18 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I'm obliged to refer to the infamous New York court case of Stambovsky v. Ackley, in which the mere reputation of a haunting became legally cognizable. Appellant Stambovsky entered into a contract with Ackley to buy Ackley's house at a designated price. Ackley had previously reported in the national media anecdotes supporting his belief that the house was haunted. This was not disclosed to Stambovskey, who then sued to rescind the contract on the grounds of misrepresentation. The appellate court ruled that, as a matter of law, the house was haunted whether or not ghosts actually existed and were actually present in the house, noting defensibly that the mere reputation of a haunting affects a property's value. Poltergeists are not covered under caveat emptor because they would not necessarily be revealed even by a diligent inspection.
The Court should have further cited Arkell v Pressdam. In spirit, if you will.
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Old 8th July 2021, 10:34 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
What kinds of questions would you pose?
First question for outside, before entry:

How does the house make you feel? Explain why.

Second question upon initial entry:

How does the house make you feel now, and how has this changed, if at all?

Third question for after exiting the building:

How did exploring the house make you feel?

Which rooms made an emotional impression? Why?

It's still subjective but enough to get a feel for how people percieve a run-down building vs a new one.
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Old 8th July 2021, 02:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The Court should have further cited Arkell v Pressdam. In spirit, if you will.
The Court does even better than that famous retort. It cites to Shakespeare (Hamlet, of course), and to the movie Ghostbusters. Also, contrary to what I reported above, the respondent in the case, Ackely, was in fact a woman.
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Old 8th July 2021, 03:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The Court does even better than that famous retort. It cites to Shakespeare (Hamlet, of course), and to the movie Ghostbusters. Also, contrary to what I reported above, the respondent in the case, Ackely, was in fact a woman.
I'm trying to remember another court case where some pro se Yahoo was suing Satan. The court obliquely cited The Devil and Daniel Webster among other tongue in cheek reasoning. I'll look it up on laptop when home.
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Old 8th July 2021, 03:54 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I'm trying to remember another court case where some pro se Yahoo was suing Satan. The court obliquely cited The Devil and Daniel Webster among other tongue in cheek reasoning. I'll look it up on laptop when home.
Perhaps Mayo v. Satan, et al. That's the famous one giggled about in civil procedure classes in law school. It failed on a technically: no way to serve process on the Prince of Darkness.

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Old 8th July 2021, 04:17 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Perhaps Mayo v. Satan, et al. That's the famous one giggled about in civil procedure classes in law school. It failed on a technically: no way to serve process on the Prince of Darkness.
That was it, thanks. My oldest had me read it when she was I think in her second year at Law school. PA's federal court had a wicked sense of humor.
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Old 8th July 2021, 09:59 PM   #40
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Other than the weird race stuff, not sure why folks are getting on caincain's case. As far as I can tell, he wasn't claiming to have done a s lol I'd experiment, just giving a guess as to why some people are psychologically predisposed to expect a haunting. Regardless of it's accuracy, it's just a guess
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