IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 28th July 2021, 05:48 PM   #1
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,302
California lays suit against Blizzard after two-year investigation

On Tuesday July 20, the state of California filed a lawsuit against Activision-Blizzard, citing a 'frat-boy' culture that oversaw massive discrimination against women working for the company (and specifically the WoW division), including being passed over for promotions, lower pay, and retaliation for complaints to HR. As expected, more has come out since then, and Blizzard released a damning statement quoted in the Polygon article about the case accusing the state of lying about a problem that didn't reflect today's company. A couple of law-trained players dissected the statement on the forums showing which parts were probably written by lawyers, and which parts would make lawyers seriously consider dropping Blizzard as a client.

Most recently what came out was tweets and pictures from Blizzcons where the developers showed off their consequences-free frat house by having a room nicknamed the Cosby Suite [pictured here] with lead developer Greg Street (known as Ghostcrawler) tweeting another picture of himself with the Cosby portrait and "There must always be a Cosby suite". Another developer, Alex Klontzas, tweeted that anyone concerned about delays in game development due to the lawsuit was "part of the problem". The tweet was limited to friends shortly after, but was still screenshot first.

There's a lot up in the air right now, accusations flying freely (woke, metoo, 'one woman complains') but with the amount of time the investigation covered, and how many of the Old Guard (original developers) are involved, the very continued existence of the game could be in doubt.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2021, 08:51 PM   #2
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
Leonard French looked at the filings a few days ago. If the complaints that have been outlined in it are true, Blizzard is going to be in heap big trouble. It seems that many of the women that worked for them were often asking "Why do you keep touching me?"

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2021, 11:13 PM   #3
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,786
Revenge of the nerds.

My theory:

The guys in that Cosby Room photo are obviously socially retarded dorks who probably still haven't been laid even with their money, power over their employees, and "special room". As if any woman would go in there willingly.

Some game developers are pretty normal, like myself Those guys, obviously nowhere near normal. Maybe they were picked on a little too much in school. Maybe they're just dicks.
__________________
Stop feeding the trolls PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th July 2021, 11:50 PM   #4
cullennz
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,036
Thought Cosby has now been found not guilty, so maybe they are just really into his crappy sitcom.

Last edited by cullennz; 28th July 2021 at 11:52 PM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 12:50 AM   #5
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Thought Cosby has now been found not guilty, so maybe they are just really into his crappy sitcom.
No, he has had his conviction quashed because the Prosecutor broke a promise made by the previous DA not to prosecute him allowing him to testify in a civil suit. It does make him "Innocent" on the basis of "Innocent until Proven Guilty", but it's not a verdict of Not Guilty. He also lost the Civil Case.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 04:41 AM   #6
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,177
The video game industry is notorious for bad working conditions, be it toxic bro culture or just insane work requirements, precarious employment, and the infamous "crunch".

Desperately in need of unionization.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 04:52 AM   #7
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
The guys in that Cosby Room photo are obviously socially retarded dorks who probably still haven't been laid even with their money, power over their employees, and "special room". As if any woman would go in there willingly.
I generally dislike this sort of logic. I don't think being a dick needs to be explained with some sexual frustration. People who get laid regularily are still often dicks.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 04:58 AM   #8
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,177
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I generally dislike this sort of logic. I don't think being a dick needs to be explained with some sexual frustration. People who get laid regularily are still often dicks.
It's kinda weird that people still insist on the "computer nerd" stereotype.

The tech industry is massive and employs hordes of people of all stripes. The era of this being a niche hobby that only appeals to a small segment of ultra-nerds is decades out of date.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 29th July 2021 at 05:49 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 05:02 AM   #9
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,177
All lawyers are bastards, but if you're human at all you have to have a bit of sympathy for whatever poor bastard has to defend a bunch of rapey frat boys that literally named their sexual harassment room the "Cosby suite".

I hope the piles of money eases their suffering.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 05:46 AM   #10
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 100,087
Can someone explain why it is the state that is pursuing this company, shouldn't it be the individual employees or ex-employees?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 07:13 AM   #11
Alt+F4
diabolical globalist
 
Alt+F4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,010
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can someone explain why it is the state that is pursuing this company, shouldn't it be the individual employees or ex-employees?
The lawsuit was filed by the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing which is, "seeking an injunction forcing compliance with workplace protections, as well as unpaid wages, pay adjustments, back pay, and lost wages and benefits for female employees."

I believe that current or former employees would have to sue as individuals for sexual harassment.
Alt+F4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 12:44 PM   #12
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,302
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can someone explain why it is the state that is pursuing this company, shouldn't it be the individual employees or ex-employees?
It's because the sexual allegations are the splashiest in the public eye, but Blizzard's been violating federal and state guidelines for workplaces. The state has grounds separate from individual workers.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 12:54 PM   #13
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 51,449
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can someone explain why it is the state that is pursuing this company, shouldn't it be the individual employees or ex-employees?
Because a company is responsible for the actions of their employees. Kind of like if an amazon truck runs you over, Amazon is responsible for it even it was the driver running a stop sign.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 01:13 PM   #14
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 53,772
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because a company is responsible for the actions of their employees. Kind of like if an amazon truck runs you over, Amazon is responsible for it even it was the driver running a stop sign.
Darat is asking why it's the state that's bringing the suit, and not individual employees who were harmed that are bringing the suit.

It's a fairly libertarian question, coming from the more statist wing of the forum. I wonder if Darat is asking whether the state should have an interest in employment practices, or if he's asking whether California is somewhat less libertarian than he assumes America to be.

---

ETA: Also, even in the context of the question you thought you were answering, your answer is grossly oversimplified and unhelpful.

Last edited by theprestige; 29th July 2021 at 01:15 PM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th July 2021, 01:32 PM   #15
SuburbanTurkey
Penultimate Amazing
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11,177
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Can someone explain why it is the state that is pursuing this company, shouldn't it be the individual employees or ex-employees?
Seems that California law is written that workplace discrimination can be reported to Department of Fair Employment and Housing, which will investigate and attempt to mediate a correction of the illegal workplace conduct, if appropriate.

This does seem unusual compared to other states which place the burden of correcting illegal workplace discrimination on the employees who have little recourse beyond personally suing. Seems that California allows for the state to take over the case, though the employee retains the right to take their case to court if they choose to.

Seems to be a more progressive approach to enforcing anti-discrimination law, removing the court cost burdens from individual employees and allowing the state to take over the legal effort if desired.

The complaint process is laid out here:

https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/ComplaintProcess/

I'm guessing that one or more employees of frat house inc Activision made a complaint, and the state was not satisfied with the company's response.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 29th July 2021 at 01:34 PM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 12:20 AM   #16
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 73,475
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Because a company is responsible for the actions of their employees. Kind of like if an amazon truck runs you over, Amazon is responsible for it even it was the driver running a stop sign.
I'm going to be a bit of a code of conduct nerd here, so I apologise in advance.

It's not quite that the company is responsible for the behaviour of its employees. It's that both the employer and the employees are responsible for maintaining high standards of behaviour in the workplace. In the case of workplace harassment and bullying, employees are required to maintain high standards in their own behaviour, but the employer is required to promote a workplace culture that values those high standards. They are required to ensure that the employees are aware of the standards and what the consequences are of not maintaining those standards, and to address breaches of those standards promptly and with conviction. Both employer and employee bear the responsibility for ensuring that the workplace is a safe environment, free from harassment and bullying of all kinds.

I know this because my workplace recognises and upholds its own responsibility, so it requires that I undergo training, which includes yearly updates and refreshers, which I have recently completed. Blizzard has apparently failed to recognise and uphold its responsibility in this area, and is being called on it.
__________________
We are all #KenBehrens
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 01:42 AM   #17
Sherkeu
Master Poster
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 2,623
Gaming companies are not your ordinary company. Sure, I am not for sexism in any industry but I happen to have known 2 of the founders of the companies mentioned---though this was "back in the day". They lived and breathed this stuff. They were pretty young. All the extra hours wasnt because they were dedicated workers but because they were really really into the work!! It was their life.

It is not surprising to me at all that as the company grows and merges that they will get into a cultural issue because you just cannot replicate the obsession for everyone that codes for you as the company grows.
It's not their baby, it is a paycheck for a job this additional worker is good at. Couple this with some social 'arrested development" and you'll have some employees not very happy at all....especially the women who have less allies in the industry. How many women do you know who own a very nice beach home, an expensive Ferrari, and own just 2 pairs of shoes?
Game developers are odd ducks.
The ones that come after them have a lack of leadership that may lead to some bad outcomes- like the Cosby thing mentioned.

The next few people who get obsessed and code a NEW game will be the next winners- and likely bought out by the worker bees in some larger company. Like pirates, they just keep raiding the talent.
The ones who want to clock out at 5pm or adhere to lots of rules and government regulations will not be favored because they just dont move fast enough to compete.

I am not saying this a good way to live.... (I would not!) it is just what likely happens.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 30th July 2021 at 01:51 AM.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 04:46 AM   #18
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 100,087
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Darat is asking why it's the state that's bringing the suit, and not individual employees who were harmed that are bringing the suit.

It's a fairly libertarian question, coming from the more statist wing of the forum. I wonder if Darat is asking whether the state should have an interest in employment practices, or if he's asking whether California is somewhat less libertarian than he assumes America to be.

---

ETA: Also, even in the context of the question you thought you were answering, your answer is grossly oversimplified and unhelpful.
I was asking what I asked - all the rest is your personal issues.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 09:39 AM   #19
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 10,093
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Gaming companies are not your ordinary company. Sure, I am not for sexism in any industry but I happen to have known 2 of the founders of the companies mentioned---though this was "back in the day". They lived and breathed this stuff. They were pretty young. All the extra hours wasnt because they were dedicated workers but because they were really really into the work!! It was their life.

It is not surprising to me at all that as the company grows and merges that they will get into a cultural issue because you just cannot replicate the obsession for everyone that codes for you as the company grows.
It's not their baby, it is a paycheck for a job this additional worker is good at. Couple this with some social 'arrested development" and you'll have some employees not very happy at all....especially the women who have less allies in the industry. How many women do you know who own a very nice beach home, an expensive Ferrari, and own just 2 pairs of shoes?
Game developers are odd ducks.
The ones that come after them have a lack of leadership that may lead to some bad outcomes- like the Cosby thing mentioned.

The next few people who get obsessed and code a NEW game will be the next winners- and likely bought out by the worker bees in some larger company. Like pirates, they just keep raiding the talent.
The ones who want to clock out at 5pm or adhere to lots of rules and government regulations will not be favored because they just dont move fast enough to compete.

I am not saying this a good way to live.... (I would not!) it is just what likely happens.
I'm really not sure what this all has to do with the lawsuit. The claims are women were:

Quote:
being passed over for promotions, lower pay, and retaliation for complaints to HR
I'm sure they were super excited about programming a game that ended up making a ton of money; however, that doesn't excuse or rationalize them fostering an unwelcoming work environment for women. Plenty of companies have, and will, do both.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 11:42 AM   #20
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 52,823
Karma for messing up Diablo III so badly.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 12:27 PM   #21
HansMustermann
Penultimate Amazing
 
HansMustermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,263
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Gaming companies are not your ordinary company. Sure, I am not for sexism in any industry but I happen to have known 2 of the founders of the companies mentioned---though this was "back in the day". They lived and breathed this stuff. They were pretty young. All the extra hours wasnt because they were dedicated workers but because they were really really into the work!! It was their life.

It is not surprising to me at all that as the company grows and merges that they will get into a cultural issue because you just cannot replicate the obsession for everyone that codes for you as the company grows.
It's not their baby, it is a paycheck for a job this additional worker is good at. Couple this with some social 'arrested development" and you'll have some employees not very happy at all....especially the women who have less allies in the industry. How many women do you know who own a very nice beach home, an expensive Ferrari, and own just 2 pairs of shoes?
Game developers are odd ducks.
The ones that come after them have a lack of leadership that may lead to some bad outcomes- like the Cosby thing mentioned.

The next few people who get obsessed and code a NEW game will be the next winners- and likely bought out by the worker bees in some larger company. Like pirates, they just keep raiding the talent.
The ones who want to clock out at 5pm or adhere to lots of rules and government regulations will not be favored because they just dont move fast enough to compete.

I am not saying this a good way to live.... (I would not!) it is just what likely happens.
None of which has any bearing on violating federal and state laws. You can't evade the law by just not being the kind of company who gives a rodent's rear about it.

E.g., you can't just decide you're not the kind of transport company which cares about traffic lights. If it's the law, then you MUST care. Same about equality, really. And same about the rest of the employment laws, really, as some companies already found out.

And in this case we ARE talking about violating federal law, and in fact violating human rights, not just some peculiarity in how some industry or another works. Namely: Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Which makes it illegal for an employer to allow sexual harassment in the workplace, or to not stop it once it is happening.

Also note that it's still illegal even if the perpetrator thinks you are (or should be) ok with it. So expectations to the effect of, yeah, but you should be ok with it if you work in this industry, nope, won't fly in any court.


Also, just for lulz, reading that touching was involved and those berks actually had a Bill Cosby room, I wouldn't put it past someone to have gone all the way to suggest dating or outright sex to some subordinate. Which, depending on the state (or possibly federal level, depending on how good your lawyer is,) can constitute soliciting prostitution. The rationale being that if providing sex is a part of their getting more money or continuing to get paid for their job, yep, that's prostitution.

Now I don't know if they did, but I'd laugh my ass off if something like that came out in some email during discovery.


Edit: mandatory disclaimer: #notlegaladvice
__________________
Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

Last edited by HansMustermann; 30th July 2021 at 12:28 PM.
HansMustermann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 03:50 PM   #22
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 90,560
It's the whole frickin* culture.

Ahem: Rational Wiki: Gamergate

Wiki: Grand Theft Auto

Wiki: Gal Gun I'm not familiar with this one but apparently someone programmed in the option to look up girl's skirts.


*Mods: this is the word I wanted to use, it is not an attempt to get around the auto censor.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 30th July 2021 at 03:51 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 09:07 PM   #23
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,048
An Activision employee was charged and pleaded guilty three years ago after someone found the hidden cameras he had installed in the unisex employee bathroom. While that case was being investigated, an upskirt video of another female coworker was found on his phone, resulting in an additional charge.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 09:34 PM   #24
Sherkeu
Master Poster
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 2,623
Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
None of which has any bearing on violating federal and state laws. You can't evade the law by just not being the kind of company who gives a rodent's rear about it.

E.g., you can't just decide you're not the kind of transport company which cares about traffic lights. If it's the law, then you MUST care. Same about equality, really. And same about the rest of the employment laws, really, as some companies already found out.

And in this case we ARE talking about violating federal law, and in fact violating human rights, not just some peculiarity in how some industry or another works. Namely: Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Which makes it illegal for an employer to allow sexual harassment in the workplace, or to not stop it once it is happening.

Also note that it's still illegal even if the perpetrator thinks you are (or should be) ok with it. So expectations to the effect of, yeah, but you should be ok with it if you work in this industry, nope, won't fly in any court.


Also, just for lulz, reading that touching was involved and those berks actually had a Bill Cosby room, I wouldn't put it past someone to have gone all the way to suggest dating or outright sex to some subordinate. Which, depending on the state (or possibly federal level, depending on how good your lawyer is,) can constitute soliciting prostitution. The rationale being that if providing sex is a part of their getting more money or continuing to get paid for their job, yep, that's prostitution.

Now I don't know if they did, but I'd laugh my ass off if something like that came out in some email during discovery.


Edit: mandatory disclaimer: #notlegaladvice
Your post reads as if i make some excuse for the misdeeds here. I do not!
Anyone who acted in a sexist criminal way should be called out and prosecuted.
It is also very based in US laws. It will all simply move to some other place where things are more lax, where such laws do not apply and the games continue. Are we not skeptics here still?

It is not fair or "right".... but that's just the way things will go.
You can badger me for telling truths but it doesnt make them go away.
It is possible I have interpreted you incorrectly. You let me know.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 30th July 2021 at 09:38 PM.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th July 2021, 10:22 PM   #25
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 39,392
""I don’t see either case as going to an actual trial," lawyer Kellen Voyer tells PC Gamer, referring to the DFEH's case against Activision Blizzard as well as one it filed against Riot Games. "Typically the parties will settle out once the defendant has a better idea of the evidence being brought by the state and the strength of its case. The current negative press… is another reason why the companies will not want to go through a long, public trial."

"The DFEH's news page shows a number of settlements from the past three years to resolve discrimination and harassment cases, for sums ranging from $50,000 to $6.2 million. Voyer points out that a sexual harassment case brought by the state is stronger than a case from an individual, partially becasue it's public rather than private arbitration. (Ending mandatory arbitration in Activision Blizzard contracts is one of the demands listed by employees who participated in the July 28 work stoppage.)"

Lawsuit timeline:

https://www.pcgamer.com/au/activisio...ine-explained/
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 05:03 AM   #26
HansMustermann
Penultimate Amazing
 
HansMustermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19,263
Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
Your post reads as if i make some excuse for the misdeeds here. I do not!
Anyone who acted in a sexist criminal way should be called out and prosecuted.
It is also very based in US laws. It will all simply move to some other place where things are more lax, where such laws do not apply and the games continue. Are we not skeptics here still?

It is not fair or "right".... but that's just the way things will go.
You can badger me for telling truths but it doesnt make them go away.
It is possible I have interpreted you incorrectly. You let me know.
To repeat the starting sentence of my previous message: "None of which has any bearing on [...]" It just doesn't matter what other "truths" there or may not may be about how screwed up the industry is, they're at best a red herring about the situation at hand.

As for moving abroad, most corporations already moved what they could to wherever they could. Mostly for minimum wage reasons, though. I kinda doubt that anyone who actually holds the purse strings will want to dump their existing experience pool and all and move just because they absolutely must have sexual harrassment and a general toxic workplace. It's an expense and if you can't show a projected ROI, it just won't happen. Doubly so when you get a "made a loss just to allow idiots to harass women" publicity in the process.

The guys holding the purse strings are not clueless nerds on some male supremacy crusade, but business types. They may have their own power trips and fantasies, but it'll be different ones. Is all I'm saying. If you show them a "we'll save 1 million a year" business case, they'll be all over it. If you show them a "we'll lose 1 million and probably delay the next game by a year while we hire new people there, but we can keep harassing women" business case, and it's not going to happen. Not the least because the investors would crucify them if that's the business case.

And it's not going to help the fratboys involved either. I doubt that most of them actually want to move to the muddy valleys of East Elbonia just because it happens to be the country with the least sexual harassment laws, or that many would even still get a job offer when they're competing with the local talent pool there, that works for half the wage. So, you know, between A. stop harassing women, and B. be out of a job because the company moved to a different country, I'm thinking even the most deranged fratboys can understand that version A is more to their advantage.
__________________
Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
HansMustermann is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2021, 12:48 PM   #27
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 100,087
https://www.avclub.com/blizzard-pres...ing-1847413979

Brack stepping down.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd August 2021, 02:42 PM   #28
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 52,823
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Long overdue.
He should go for the Harassment alone, but you can make a strong case that the decline of Blizzard from being one of the most respected game companies with almost everything they brought out being a huge hit to being a laughing stock known for crappy product would also justify his removal.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:09 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.