Clueless Article On Busing

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.

Exactly. We have the cash. We need the motivation.

The flip side is that in my hood, I've witnessed it not working. Atlantic City NJ was a run down town till casino gaming came to town. They were rolling in the tax jingle in short order, and built a new state of the art high school, complete with highly paid administration and teachers. Members of the child study team were pulling triple digit salaries. They continued to be a dive institution, graduating kids on a fifth grade reading level and having to install metal detectors to stop the violence ( the primary schools also got rebuilt and funded).

So how do we motivate a school system to deliver quality education and opportunities? Is it just money?

[Minoosh]

Originally Posted by rockinkt

I was answering Thermal's post on integrating communities not just bussing to create integration in schools.
Much of your post has nothing to do with that discussion.

You're right; I had missed that part of the conversation.

Originally Posted by rockinkt

BTW - I know that property taxes are not based on income - but you are missing the the point: How does one just move into a more expensive house in a more upscale neighborhood without a corresponding increase in income?
If housing is developed to meet the lower income integration the property tax levy on the social housing will have to be correspondingly lower. That will decrease the per capita funding.

In my state, in theory, the funding inequities have been fixed. Districts aren't strictly dependent on their local tax base. Meanwhile, charter schools are supposed to provide districts with competition, which has happened, but that has pluses and minuses. A lot still depends on transportation: Many parents will default to the school that runs a bus in the neighborhood. And there is still de facto segregation because that's how some parts of town are organized. So then comes the issue of community integration which I don't want to see forced on people, but it could be incentivized.

The posh high school ended up with extra capacity and found it was worth their while to run buses outside the district to bring in a few kids from less-exclusive parts of town. The charter system allows for some pretty good schools in pretty rundown neighborhoods. Bottom line, motivated parents can sometimes find options better than their default neighborhood school, but what does that do to neighborhood schools? They're supposed to "compete," somehow, but having a bunch of underfunded entities trying to claw resources away from each other isn't pretty, either.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Yes, nation wide taxes to fund fundamental part of a nation equally is totally impossible in a nation like the US.
That's why the US army is also funded per district with some units getting good stuff and others not based on who their parents are.

Begging the question.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Begging the question.

Why? Rockinkt suggested that a nation as large as the US was unable to collect taxes nationwide which would then be equally divided among a service essential to the country because of all the states.

I merely pointed out that it seems the US is able to do that with the army, so why would it be unable to do so for it's education.

and @thermal, I don't fully know how to ensure it will work perfectly everywhere, and there are many other underlying problems with the US. For instance, if you do your best in school but you know you'll never be able to actually earn a livable wage because of your background that will not be a motivation. But is the fact that it won't work perfectly grounds to keep ensuring only a select few get good education?

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The homeschool perspective: you deserve what you are getting.

Our ten year old is studying for the SAT now.

The nine year old can make about $25 an hour doing firewood production and $100 an hour on the bulldozer. He's pretty much done with academics.

A little over 50% of our property tax is to fund the schools, which I have paid for 34 years, and will continue to pay. We do not receive one penny in support.

The local school is spending $33,000 per student and is scoring 17th percentile internationally, tied with Mexico. Six figure salaries and benefits for a job that is only 9 months.

Now that the Covid insanity is here, they're claiming all the students will be 6 feet apart, which is impossible given the total square footage of the rooms. They cannot even do basic math.

We don't care. Because the parents, the teachers and administrators, the school board - they don't care. So why should we? Alaska was last place in the nation on the last round of academic tests. Not a peep out of anyone about it.

[rockinkt]

Originally Posted by Minoosh

You're right; I had missed that part of the conversation.



In my state, in theory, the funding inequities have been fixed. Districts aren't strictly dependent on their local tax base. Meanwhile, charter schools are supposed to provide districts with competition, which has happened, but that has pluses and minuses. A lot still depends on transportation: Many parents will default to the school that runs a bus in the neighborhood. And there is still de facto segregation because that's how some parts of town are organized. So then comes the issue of community integration which I don't want to see forced on people, but it could be incentivized.

The posh high school ended up with extra capacity and found it was worth their while to run buses outside the district to bring in a few kids from less-exclusive parts of town. The charter system allows for some pretty good schools in pretty rundown neighborhoods. Bottom line, motivated parents can sometimes find options better than their default neighborhood school, but what does that do to neighborhood schools? They're supposed to "compete," somehow, but having a bunch of underfunded entities trying to claw resources away from each other isn't pretty, either.

Thank you for your detailed explanation of how the system can be made to work better.

[rockinkt]

Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser

Why? Rockinkt suggested that a nation as large as the US was unable to collect taxes nationwide which would then be equally divided among a service essential to the country because of all the states.

I merely pointed out that it seems the US is able to do that with the army, so why would it be unable to do so for it's education.

and @thermal, I don't fully know how to ensure it will work perfectly everywhere, and there are many other underlying problems with the US. For instance, if you do your best in school but you know you'll never be able to actually earn a livable wage because of your background that will not be a motivation. But is the fact that it won't work perfectly grounds to keep ensuring only a select few get good education?

In both Canada and the US - the military is a Federal responsibility and Education is a Provincial/State responsibility.
Two different levels of government with responsibilities written into our Constitutions. In other words - the system can only be changed in our countries by an amendment to the constitutional powers between the province/states and the respective Federal governments.
That ain't going to happen anytime soon as there are too many competing interests.

[Distracted1]

School officially started in Philly today- virtual school.

It occurred to me that with "virtual" learning, there seems little reason to tie a student to their local school.

Are we missing a great opportunity to integrate education?
Why not have children of the same grade randomly assigned teachers in the same time zone?

A virtual classroom could include students from a poor neighborhood in Miami, a rich kid from Bloomfield Michigan, and a kid from some rural West Virginian holler.

Further, standards for education could be more effectively, well, standardized.

Anyway, obviously there would be complications from such an effort- but it seems like it would be worthwhile to take advantage of this opportunity to give it a try.

[Minoosh]

The opportunity for virtual integration is certainly there, but the problem is, someone still has to supervise the children. Instructionally it might work but someone still has to provide the straight-up child care that schools currently handle (or did until late March or so).

For older, motivated kids, a lot could be done with online modules. That depends on the individual student, though.

[HansMustermann]

You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me like a certain anime series has the right answer to the whole controversy. Make an "Academy City". Essentially a glorified town-sized boarding school, plus housing for whatever personnel is needed for the schools, shops, etc. Maybe a few hotels too, in case the parents want to visit.

Everyone who totally wants to send their little prodigy anywhere else than to their local school, can just send him/her there.

If nothing else, with more kids away, everyone else should get a bit of peace and quiet.

And having so many of them in one place, I'm sure will offer a lot of new insights for several experi... err... social sciences.

Sincerely,
Aleister

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by Distracted1

School officially started in Philly today- virtual school.

It occurred to me that with "virtual" learning, there seems little reason to tie a student to their local school.

Are we missing a great opportunity to integrate education?
Why not have children of the same grade randomly assigned teachers in the same time zone?

A virtual classroom could include students from a poor neighborhood in Miami, a rich kid from Bloomfield Michigan, and a kid from some rural West Virginian holler.

Further, standards for education could be more effectively, well, standardized.

Anyway, obviously there would be complications from such an effort- but it seems like it would be worthwhile to take advantage of this opportunity to give it a try.

A lot of schools and businesses found that they can limp along virtually. But schools really need some hands-on experiences. Sports, gym, labs, hell even woodshop and the like.

Staring at screens for 10+ hours a day is not something we should be encouraging in a healthy society. We need to move back to human interaction and socialization, not away from it. IMO, anyway.

[HansMustermann]

Pfft. Everything I ever needed to know about functioning in a group, I learned perfectly well online. Stuff like:

- wait for the tank to get the aggro

- for the same reason, keep your pet on passive

- don't get flanked. Always side-step when you must pass in front of a door. Well, the boss sure gives me funny looks when I pass by his door, tho.

- sound is your friend; you can hear enemies well outside your line of sight. Always stop and listen before going around a corner or through a door. Sure, the guys behind you in the elevator might get annoyed, but you may well have saved their life.

- the way to show off your success is with a unique hat or weapon skin. And that's what I told the HR lady too.

- always spend some time exploring and learning the map. It might save your life later. Well, or it might get you kicked out of the meeting room someone else was using. Or there was that time I got stuck on the roof. No matter, they'll thank me later when I carry their sorry ass.

- once you know the map, find a good ambush or sniping position and stay hidden. Downside, more than once I had to explain why I'm crouched on the balcony or in the stairwell instead of at my desk. Pfft. Like I'm gonna be that easy a victim.