ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 20th November 2011, 07:36 AM   #1
Rerevisionist
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Nuclear (i.e. fission and fusion) mythologies and politics


Nuke Lies site

I'm putting this neutrally-worded piece here, mainly because I found a link back to a thread on this forum.

If you google 'nuke lies' or quite a number of related topics, the forum will show up. (I don't want to post some sort of coded link).

Note that this message is only intended for serious readers, not the sort who seem to populate most of the Randi forum.

Anyway the themes explored in the forum are (briefly - there are several messages providing many links within the site, with explanations)--

** Evidence that nuclear weapons were a fraud right from the start, based on examination of film and newsreel etc records, now available as videos or course, and on documentary evidence, and also on rechecking some items of evidence, for instance the experiment referred to in Einstein's letter to Roosevelt
** Examination of how their properties had to be made up, including inconsistencies and mistakes. (For example, the radiation hazard had to be made up to keep people away - there's a photo of Oppenheimer and Groves strolling about the day after a nightime explosion, for example. And the 'mushroom cloud' was a mistake which they stuck with. - Just two examples)
** A section obviously on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
** A section on phased withdrawal - they have the problem now of phasing the mythology out, preferably while keeping their money. This means changing the previous stories and hoping people won't notice. (Typical example is the 'Monterey Group' and someone called Ward Wilson).
** Material on nuclear power, which may or more likely may not exist. Submarines are important here as they are the only objects supposedly run entirely by nuclear power. (Every electrical grid has input from conventional sources).
** Material on propagandists and generally the world situation - some of it of course connected fairly remotely. Thus Vanunu, the psychology of science frauds, vested interests related to paper money, the control of protestors, security and secrecy issues, the importance of conventional weapons, spies and the 'Cold War', and a whole assemblage of issues needs to be discussed.

I won't say any more here, but I would ask serious commentators, if there are any on this site, to have a look!

Last edited by Rerevisionist; 20th November 2011 at 07:39 AM.
Rerevisionist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 08:14 AM   #2
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 38,408
Um, yeah, sure "only intended for serious readers, not the sort who seem to populate most of the Randi forum", you mean sceptics who aren't going to buy in on some CT that you are alluding to?

And you are too lazy to even post a w w w.yourevidence.org here link?

So when you want to talk you could pretend to post more than an allusion to CT.
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 09:27 AM   #3
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
Radiometric dating, which works on the same principles (and involves nuclear reactors to run the analysis, for at least some of the dating methods), works. We know it works, because we've used it countless times in geology, paleontology, archaeology, and medicine. As I said, the fundamental principles are the same as those for nuclear bombs. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that at the very least, that forum isn't looking at the full picture.

Feel free to start with the No True Scottsman attacks.
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 09:41 AM   #4
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,076
There a a number of nuclear powered surface vessels, mainly aircraft carriers.
Then there are the "Germany detonated an atomic bomb in 1944/5 but was too nice to use it" myth pushed by some of the more idiotic neo-nazis and the "Japan detonated an atomic bomb in 1945 in Korea" story that started after WW2.

ETA: don't forget the loons who say the sun doesn't rely on fusion for energy production either.

Last edited by catsmate; 20th November 2011 at 09:45 AM. Reason: ETA
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 09:55 AM   #5
Rerevisionist
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
[1] I don't know what 'CT' is, but I'd guess it's an in-house thing like some other phrases I won't bother with.

New posters are not allowed to post external links, no doubt as an anti-spam device.

From memory, as your details are off-screen to me now, you've posted something like 27,000 postings to this site. And you can't even be bothered to either address my summary comments, let alone look at the site.

[2] Radiometric dating has problems which any informed person should know about, but I won't list comments here as it's irrelevant to the issue, just as your comment is. The issue is vast amounts of energy being given off, whether this is feasible, whether in fact it's true, whether it would cause an explosion.

[3] It's true there are claims made about nuclear-powered ships. However, if you check you'll find they receive huge amounts of fuel, typically for planes. If you make a little effort you'll find the evidence for their being nuclear-powered is shaky. No wonder you've had time to post 5000 comments.
Rerevisionist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:02 AM   #6
Pantaz
Muse
 
Pantaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 975
Okaaaaay... It's not April 1st.... this isn't posted in "Humor".... I don't get it.

Pantaz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:05 AM   #7
LandR
Graduate Poster
 
LandR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,275
Hold on.

So are you doubting not only that there has existed nuclear bombs but also nuclear submarines, nuclear warships and nuclear power plants ?

I just want to be clear.
LandR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:09 AM   #8
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Well I for one think this is a great idea and needs to be promoted in as many media outlets as possible. If you want to send me your credit card details and your SSN for confirmation I will make sure this project gets all the attention it deserves
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:20 AM   #9
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
Quote:
[2] Radiometric dating has problems which any informed person should know about,
Careful. While I won't pretend to be the most knowledgeable on the topic in these parts, I AM an informed person. I know the limitations--but I also know that there are no serious flaws in the methodology, if properly applied.

Quote:
but I won't list comments here as it's irrelevant to the issue, just as your comment is.
This shows how ignorant of the topic you are. As I said, the exact same principles are involved in both radiometric dating and in nuclear explosions. The physics is the same--explosions just happen a tad faster, is all. Also, many radiometric dating methods require nuclear reactors--which literally work on the same principle as a nuclear bomb.

This is relevant. In order to prove that nuclear bombs are a myth, you have to prove that the physics doesn't work--which means you also have to prove that radiometric dating and nuclear reactors don't work. So long as the physics for radiometric dating and nuclear reactors is valid, nuclear bombs are at least theoretically possible.

Quote:
[1] I don't know what 'CT' is, but I'd guess it's an in-house thing like some other phrases I won't bother with.
CT is shorthand for "conspiracy theory".

Quote:
[3] It's true there are claims made about nuclear-powered ships. However, if you check you'll find they receive huge amounts of fuel, typically for planes.
Considering the fact that no one has ever said that jets are nuclear-powered, this is entirely irrelevant. So long as a nuclear reactor is at work in the ship, your ideas are hogwash.
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:29 AM   #10
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,477
Considering that the effect of some surface explosion, and some underground explosion can still be detected and studied, and considering the plenty of evidence on hiroshima, nagazaki, mururora, bikini atoll, mexico desert, and I pass many others, considering the physic behind it is well known and I have used part of it for my own experience, considering radiometric dating, considering a lot of other element, I have to think you probably don't know a single bit on the physic radio activity.

What sort of evidence do you have for your CT ? You can't put a link but you can put in plain text the link replacing . by the word dot. Example : www (dot) google (dot) com.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:32 AM   #11
LandR
Graduate Poster
 
LandR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,275
Nuke Lies

I think he is referring to this forum

http://nukelies.com/forum/

Which seems to be run by our OP.
LandR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:38 AM   #12
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,136
I guess nuclear subs receive huge amounts of airplane fuel too. Together with liquid oxygen.
What about nuclear power plants ? They do produce power, and they have radioactive materials inside (and outside, after accidents). All you need is to get yourself a Geiger counter and travel to Japan right now. Or you can even build one.
Of course they can make energy from coal, and mask it with radioactive materials. ;-)
Dr.Sid is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:40 AM   #13
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
One other thing to consider: We have evidence in the form of increased C14 and other radiogenic isotopes that fairly large amounts of radiation were released on the surface of the planet starting a while back. Makes certain dating methods useful for Holocene-era stuff difficult, as you have to factor that spike in to your analysis. The only thing that can really explain that spike is nuclear explosions.

Then there's the impactites. You find them in two places: large bolide impact crators (well, not Chixilub size, but on the bigger end of the normal impact crator spectrum) and nuclear test sites.

It's not just newspapers and TV shows that need to be disproven--nuclear weapons have had an impact on numerous fields of science. There's physical evidence, in the form of isotopic data, shock quartz, and other geologic evidence.
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 10:51 AM   #14
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 14,726
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
Nuke Lies site

** Material on nuclear power, which may or more likely may not exist. Submarines are important here as they are the only objects supposedly run entirely by nuclear power. (Every electrical grid has input from conventional sources).
I have been in the nuclear plant of a submarine, and been on board that submarine underwater for over two weeks observing its operations first hand. There was no other source of power than the nuclear power plant.

My best friend and countless co-workers I know have worked in nuclear power plants on submarines, aircraft carriers, and electrical power generating stations. None have intimated it was all an elaborate hoax.

My son is currently in training to run nuclear power plants.

Nuclear power is real. Your hoax theory is not.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 11:28 AM   #15
rwguinn
Penultimate Amazing
 
rwguinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes
Posts: 10,732
Originally Posted by Dinwar View Post
Careful. While I won't pretend to be the most knowledgeable on the topic in these parts, I AM an informed person. I know the limitations--but I also know that there are no serious flaws in the methodology, if properly applied.

This shows how ignorant of the topic you are. As I said, the exact same principles are involved in both radiometric dating and in nuclear explosions. The physics is the same--explosions just happen a tad faster, is all. Also, many radiometric dating methods require nuclear reactors--which literally work on the same principle as a nuclear bomb.

This is relevant. In order to prove that nuclear bombs are a myth, you have to prove that the physics doesn't work--which means you also have to prove that radiometric dating and nuclear reactors don't work. So long as the physics for radiometric dating and nuclear reactors is valid, nuclear bombs are at least theoretically possible.

CT is shorthand for "conspiracy theory".

Considering the fact that no one has ever said that jets are nuclear-powered, this is entirely irrelevant. So long as a nuclear reactor is at work in the ship, your ideas are hogwash.
See--you're perpetuating the lie.
Since the bibble proves that the world is only 6000 years old, anything that shows something different obviously has problems and major flaws... [/idiot mode]
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
"
I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
rwguinn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 11:32 AM   #16
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
You know, if there IS a worldwide conspiracy I want in on it. I mean, I've worked for them for years, and I haven't so much as received a Christmas card. You'd think they'd be more generous--I mean, building a fake nuclear power plant and financing all the fraudulent research is a huge expense, and giving me a $100 thank-you card at Christmas would be a rounding error in the budget. I can't stand cheap jerks like that.
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 11:56 AM   #17
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,076
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I guess nuclear subs receive huge amounts of airplane fuel too. Together with liquid oxygen.
What about nuclear power plants ? They do produce power, and they have radioactive materials inside (and outside, after accidents). All you need is to get yourself a Geiger counter and travel to Japan right now. Or you can even build one.
Of course they can make energy from coal, and mask it with radioactive materials. ;-)
Just like the nuclear powered icebreaker I spent some time on.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 12:02 PM   #18
Greedo
Too weird to live, too rare to die
 
Greedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,602
Great, here we go again...

This has been "discussed" ad nauseam in CT.

Here.

and I believe here.


Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
Note that this message is only intended for serious readers, not the sort who seem to populate most of the Randi forum.
Err, okay, cool. But why did you post on the Randi forums then?
__________________
"Die Kunst? Was ich ohne sie wäre? Ich weiß es nicht. Doch mir graut- seh ich doch, was ohne sie Hundert' und Tausende sind!"

Last edited by Greedo; 20th November 2011 at 12:04 PM.
Greedo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 12:28 PM   #19
Rerevisionist
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
OK. First of all, my stance on this forum is basically that Randi is a coward, who will not deal with serious issues; hence the time-wasting over trivia such as 'homeopathy'.
______________________

Edited by LashL:  Edited for civility.

______________________

Anyway to take others in sequence--

DINWAR appears to think radiometric measurements are entirely confirmed. In fact this is not the case, since there's usually no solid way to confirm them, especially with dates going back millions of years. (I'm not saying the people involved are in any way to blame - it's not their fault their work is misquoted).

DINWAR also seems to think that radioactive decay is the same as a chain reaction. Of course it isn't.

DINWAR - the point about supposed nuclear powered ships is that they have conventional fuel. So there is a possible alternative propualsion system.

AEPERVIUS - if you look on nukelies you'll find careful examination of e.g. trinitite, the entire set of Hiroshima and Nagasaki events from the Manhattan Project, delvery of the supposed bombs, bomb-aiming etc, eye witnesses, and of course a lot more. There's an introductory linked index to the entire site. If you're not interested enough to look, it's up to you.

As I said before, a lot of evidence is present in published media, including DVDs of supposed atomic bombs over Japan, DVDs showing supposed tests in the 1940s thru 1960s, and general civil defense and other scare films of the time.

DR SID - It's not as simple as you seem to think. For example, the Japanese admit to not using test equipment to monitor supposed spreads of radiation - they use computer models. Our site has a section specifically on nuclear power and the doubts around it.

LSBB - feel free to join nukelies and give evidence. BUT saying things like "I've worked all my life on computer simulations" or "I've often scrubbed the outside of nuke engines" or "I've been told the room is dangerously radioactive" count as testimony, but not evidence.

RWGUINN - you're a laugh a minute. It must be a great experience to have a drink with you.

CATSMATE - Did you check the engines in detail?

Edited by LashL:  Edited for civility.


Mod WarningPlease re-read the Membership Agreement to which you agreed when you signed up. Name calling and insults can be a breach of Rule 0 and/or Rule 12.
Posted By:LashL

Last edited by LashL; 21st November 2011 at 09:42 AM.
Rerevisionist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 12:44 PM   #20
Rerevisionist
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by LandR View Post
Hold on.

So are you doubting not only that there has existed nuclear bombs but also nuclear submarines, nuclear warships and nuclear power plants ?

I just want to be clear.
Sorry, LANDR, I missed this one. OK in sequence of believability:

[1] Japan was not nuked; it's a complete fabrication.
[2] That doesn't prove atom bombs don't exist. But...
[3] H Bombs as depicted are a fake
[4] That doesn't prove they don't exist, either. But...
[5] It would be easy for a test carried out now, or to have been carried out any time since 1945, to show they exist. But they haven't.
[6] There are therefore obvious queries over the physics, looked at on our site - including the influence of 'e=mc2', whether fission can go critical, and if it did whether it's controllable, and how dangerous in fact a handful of neutrons could be
[7] Nuclear power may not work - the evidence needs examination which would have to include electricity grids. It would spill over into windpower as a ppossible fraud, too.
[8] Nuclear subs are of importance because they are the only objects allegedly using only nuclear power. (There could be installations e.g. in Antarctica, but appear not to be).
Rerevisionist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 12:51 PM   #21
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 14,726
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
LSBB - feel free to join nukelies and give evidence. BUT saying things like "I've worked all my life on computer simulations" or "I've often scrubbed the outside of nuke engines" or "I've been told the room is dangerously radioactive" count as testimony, but not evidence.
How about I worked alongside in the reactor control room while they scrammed the reactor? How about I created a device in college that detected the presence of nuclear decay daughter particles from Radon gas? And what part of "no other primary source of power" don't you get? And are you calling all of my co-workers who worked directly in the plant liars? If they are all in on the hoax, should I be asking for my cut so I don't expose them?
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 01:01 PM   #22
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist
DINWAR appears to think radiometric measurements are entirely confirmed. In fact this is not the case, since there's usually no solid way to confirm them, especially with dates going back millions of years. (I'm not saying the people involved are in any way to blame - it's not their fault their work is misquoted).
You've completely misunderstood my point, I assume deliberately. What I'm saying is that the data that HAS been confirmed--remember, we use radioactive tracers in medicine, with half-lives on the order of minutes--clearly supports the theoretical framework behind the ideas that were used to construct nuclear bombs. Other radiometric work has been confirmed in the Holocene via independent measures (thermoluminescence, optically stimulated luminescence, stratigraphy, etc). In order to prove that nuclear weapons are impossible, you need to prove that a chunk of modern medicine and a bigger chunk of geology than you realize is wrong.

Quote:
DINWAR also seems to think that radioactive decay is the same as a chain reaction. Of course it isn't.
No, I simply stated that the physics underlying both are the same. A chain reaction is a large number of fission events occurring in a short time--the fission events are all more or less the same as the fission events in C14, or zircon crystals, or the like.

Quote:
DINWAR - the point about supposed nuclear powered ships is that they have conventional fuel. So there is a possible alternative propualsion system.
They also exist in windy environments--are you proposing that they use sails to move? Because the idea is equally rediculous. OF COURSE aircraft carriers have jet fuel on board--THEY HAVE JETS ON BOARD. You've yet to establish even that the fuel is usable as fuel for the ship (jet fuel isn't that good in engines other than jets), let alone that they DO use it!

Quote:
[8] Nuclear subs are of importance because they are the only objects allegedly using only nuclear power. (There could be installations e.g. in Antarctica, but appear not to be).
This shows a rather remarkable ignorance on your part. There have been a number of space probes that rely on nuclear materials for fuel. There were some pretty big stinks about that, actually--people were worried that the probes could become the equivalent of dirty bombs (ie, the rocket could malfunction and explode, scattering radioactive material all over the place).

There's an anecdote from my old geology department that's relevant here. A professor working on an XRD (which requires a radiation badge) had to talk to another professor. She walked into the office and set her badge down on a random rock--not unusual, as all geology professors have desks with random rocks all over the place. She sent the badge in to be analyzed, as per lab protocol. The result came back "Ma'am, when were you inside an active nuclear reactor?" The film in the badge had been completely exposed. Turns out the rock she set the badge on was uraninite, a uranium ore. It's far from pure, so the radiation is safe enough (you get more from sunlight than a hand-sample of uraninite), but it rather clearly shows how active the material is. Again, a chain reaction is merely a large number of fission events in a small amount of time--the physics doesn't change. So if you believe nuclear reactors don't work, please explain to me why that badge experienced a high dose of radiation.
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 01:16 PM   #23
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 14,726
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
How about I worked alongside in the reactor control room while they scrammed the reactor? How about I created a device in college that detected the presence of nuclear decay daughter particles from Radon gas? And what part of "no other primary source of power" don't you get? And are you calling all of my co-workers who worked directly in the plant liars? If they are all in on the hoax, should I be asking for my cut so I don't expose them?
Also, I spent a month aboard a nuclear powered guided missile cruiser. I have been in it's power plants. The cruiser is of identical construction to one I was on that was powered by oil-fired boilers generating 1200 pound steam. The ship with the oil-fired boilers had stacks where the exhaust from the oil-firing was vented. The nuclear cruiser had no such stacks, and yet was able to attain a speed of 32 knots while I observed from it's bridge.
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 01:43 PM   #24
deeper
Critical Thinker
 
deeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
The nuclear cruiser had no such stacks, and yet was able to attain a speed of 32 knots while I observed from it's bridge.
How do you know you weren't being pulled by a fast, powerful boat with an incredibly long tow line?
deeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 01:47 PM   #25
Sam.I.Am
Illuminator
 
Sam.I.Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,627
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
** Material on nuclear power, which may or more likely may not exist. Submarines are important here as they are the only objects supposedly run entirely by nuclear power. (Every electrical grid has input from conventional sources).
I hate to break it to you but nuclear power is very real. I have spent over 2 years in total underwater over 8 strategic deterrent patrols along with taking a boat out of a shipyard and even test firing the weapons systems.

We didn't pull thousands of miles worth of extension cord around and we rarely used our diesel except in short periods (15-30 minutes at a time for maintenance or reactor SCRAM drills). The diesel fuel has two uses. Fuel for the diesel and reactor shielding (all of that hydrogen in the fuel makes for an excellent shield). We carried enough fuel to get us home if the reactor broke in the middle of the ocean (about two weeks worth). We never even came close to using it all. Using it fouled up the detection system for discovering torpedo fuel leaks so aside from the noise there was another reason to not use it on a regular basis.

We also carried nuclear weapons. I've seen them. I've worked with them. I've slept next to them. They are quite real.

These are facts. I've lived them. You and your type are flat out wrong about everything that you think that you know. You need to seek medical help before the guys with butterfly nets come looking for you.
__________________
"Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"...

About my avatar.
Sam.I.Am is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 01:48 PM   #26
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by deeper View Post
How do you know you weren't being pulled by a fast, powerful boat with an incredibly long tow line?
I just assumed that was a given
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:01 PM   #27
Greedo
Too weird to live, too rare to die
 
Greedo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,602
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
OK. First of all, my stance on this forum is basically that Randi is a coward, who will not deal with serious issues; hence the time-wasting over trivia such as 'homeopathy'.
______________________

Edited by LashL:  Edited for civility.

______________________

....



Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
Edited by LashL:  Edited for civility.
Personal insults, classy. But no worries, I'm not insulted. I'm rather copiously amused by the irony.
__________________
"Die Kunst? Was ich ohne sie wäre? Ich weiß es nicht. Doch mir graut- seh ich doch, was ohne sie Hundert' und Tausende sind!"

Last edited by LashL; 21st November 2011 at 09:43 AM. Reason: To remove moderated content quoted.
Greedo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:02 PM   #28
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 14,726
Originally Posted by deeper View Post
How do you know you weren't being pulled by a fast, powerful boat with an incredibly long tow line?
Because that would have interfered with the mail buoy we were trying to fish out of the water. Duh....
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:13 PM   #29
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
Nuke Lies site

I'm putting this neutrally-worded piece here, mainly because I found a link back to a thread on this forum.

If you google 'nuke lies' or quite a number of related topics, the forum will show up. (I don't want to post some sort of coded link).

Note that this message is only intended for serious readers, not the sort who seem to populate most of the Randi forum.

Anyway the themes explored in the forum are (briefly - there are several messages providing many links within the site, with explanations)--

** Evidence that nuclear weapons were a fraud right from the start, based on examination of film and newsreel etc records, now available as videos or course, and on documentary evidence, and also on rechecking some items of evidence, for instance the experiment referred to in Einstein's letter to Roosevelt
** Examination of how their properties had to be made up, including inconsistencies and mistakes. (For example, the radiation hazard had to be made up to keep people away - there's a photo of Oppenheimer and Groves strolling about the day after a nightime explosion, for example. And the 'mushroom cloud' was a mistake which they stuck with. - Just two examples)
** A section obviously on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
** A section on phased withdrawal - they have the problem now of phasing the mythology out, preferably while keeping their money. This means changing the previous stories and hoping people won't notice. (Typical example is the 'Monterey Group' and someone called Ward Wilson).
** Material on nuclear power, which may or more likely may not exist. Submarines are important here as they are the only objects supposedly run entirely by nuclear power. (Every electrical grid has input from conventional sources).
** Material on propagandists and generally the world situation - some of it of course connected fairly remotely. Thus Vanunu, the psychology of science frauds, vested interests related to paper money, the control of protestors, security and secrecy issues, the importance of conventional weapons, spies and the 'Cold War', and a whole assemblage of issues needs to be discussed.

I won't say any more here, but I would ask serious commentators, if there are any on this site, to have a look!
Neutrally-worded? Riight.

Funny, I worked on nuclear weapons for four years in the USAF and they sure looked real.

(I know, I was a deluded sheep)
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:16 PM   #30
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by Rerevisionist View Post
[1] I don't know what 'CT' is, but I'd guess it's an in-house thing like some other phrases I won't bother with.

New posters are not allowed to post external links, no doubt as an anti-spam device.

From memory, as your details are off-screen to me now, you've posted something like 27,000 postings to this site. And you can't even be bothered to either address my summary comments, let alone look at the site.

[2] Radiometric dating has problems which any informed person should know about, but I won't list comments here as it's irrelevant to the issue, just as your comment is. The issue is vast amounts of energy being given off, whether this is feasible, whether in fact it's true, whether it would cause an explosion.

[3] It's true there are claims made about nuclear-powered ships. However, if you check you'll find they receive huge amounts of fuel, typically for planes. If you make a little effort you'll find the evidence for their being nuclear-powered is shaky. No wonder you've had time to post 5000 comments.
The sailors on the carriers and subs are in on the conspiracy? At the very least the officers and the guys who fuel those huge engines would have to know something was strange.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:18 PM   #31
deeper
Critical Thinker
 
deeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Because that would have interfered with the mail buoy we were trying to fish out of the water. Duh....
Sorry, since I read the Nuke Lies site I can't help but feel there must be a more complex, convoluted and downright unrealistic explanation for everything I see around me.
deeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:18 PM   #32
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by LandR View Post
I think he is referring to this forum

http://nukelies.com/forum/

Which seems to be run by our OP.
So this is a scam thread to send traffic to his forum.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:26 PM   #33
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Also, I spent a month aboard a nuclear powered guided missile cruiser. I have been in it's power plants. The cruiser is of identical construction to one I was on that was powered by oil-fired boilers generating 1200 pound steam. The ship with the oil-fired boilers had stacks where the exhaust from the oil-firing was vented. The nuclear cruiser had no such stacks, and yet was able to attain a speed of 32 knots while I observed from it's bridge.
Proof positive that the military has perfected the magnetic repulsion drive!
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:33 PM   #34
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 14,726
Originally Posted by deeper View Post
Sorry, since I read the Nuke Lies site I can't help but feel there must be a more complex, convoluted and downright unrealistic explanation for everything I see around me.
I recommend you participate in a Mail Buoy watch if you REALLY want to see complex, convoluted and downright unrealistic upfront and in person. You can even handle the hook...
__________________
"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:35 PM   #35
MG1962
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,252
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
The sailors on the carriers and subs are in on the conspiracy? At the very least the officers and the guys who fuel those huge engines would have to know something was strange.
As well as the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the millions around the world kept alive by nuclear medicine
MG1962 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:36 PM   #36
Sam.I.Am
Illuminator
 
Sam.I.Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,627
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
The sailors on the carriers and subs are in on the conspiracy? At the very least the officers and the guys who fuel those huge engines would have to know something was strange.
You can hear (and feel, and smell) the diesel running from anywhere on the ship. You also had to run on what we called "Reduced Juice" (properly called rigged for reduced electricity) when prolonged snorkeling was expected because the diesel generator can't put out enough to meet all of our needs without a little help from the ships batteries.
__________________
"Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"...

About my avatar.
Sam.I.Am is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:51 PM   #37
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 12,438
We carried 'Special Weapons' onthe AS Frigates I serverd on in the 80s. Nuclear Depth Bombs . They were to take out Russian Subs if the war started. We trained in their use and were prepared to use them if the orders came.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:54 PM   #38
deeper
Critical Thinker
 
deeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I recommend you participate in a Mail Buoy watch if you REALLY want to see complex, convoluted and downright unrealistic upfront and in person. You can even handle the hook...
lol, I see. Also liked the Long Weight from that page, I was in a hardware store recently when a young kid came in and asked for a Penny Long Stand, I passed about 45 minutes later and he was still there.

Last edited by deeper; 20th November 2011 at 03:06 PM.
deeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 02:57 PM   #39
Garrison
Illuminator
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,392
So may I take it Rerevisionist that you have evidence that there's a large discepancy in the amount of jet fuel delivered to nuclear aircraft carriers and the amount required for the air operations they conduct? Or that there are conventional fuels being supplied to nuclear submarines?

For that matter how do you explain the various nuclear powered space probes that have been dispatched far beyond the range of solar power cells?
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th November 2011, 03:00 PM   #40
Dinwar
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 16,668
Quote:
how do you explain
There appears to be a rather fundamental assumption that doesn't hold true in these four words....
Dinwar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:41 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.