Merged: UK Queen dead? Dying?/Liz Mountbatten's death

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Sorry, but why is it going to be so expensive for an impromptu national holiday?

You must live in some weird place where employers don't pay people for statutory holidays.

In NZ and Australia (and UK), the employer pays the wages of people who get the day off, which will be the vast majority of workers.

Those who do work get a day off in lieu of the statutory day, so every employer will be paying their entire staff for that day. With 2.8M wage earners in NZ, it's an astronomical amount.

It's a massive and unnecessary cost on employers to satisfy the whim of some clowns in parliament.

A temp agency I work with is going to pay out $160,000 in wages, of which not a single cent is recoverable. A month's profit gone, for no purpose whatsoever. It also comes on the back of NZ workers being gifted an extra statutory holiday from this year as well.

It's not even ridiculous, it's obscene.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

You must live in some weird place where employers don't pay people for statutory holidays.

Some people do say Japan is a weird place, yes. And no, they do not pay extra on holidays.

Originally Posted by The Atheist

In NZ and Australia (and UK), the employer pays the wages of people who get the day off, which will be the vast majority of workers.

Those who do work get a day off in lieu of the statutory day, so every employer will be paying their entire staff for that day. With 2.8M wage earners in NZ, it's an astronomical amount.

It's a massive and unnecessary cost on employers to satisfy the whim of some clowns in parliament.

A temp agency I work with is going to pay out $160,000 in wages, of which not a single cent is recoverable. A month's profit gone, for no purpose whatsoever. It also comes on the back of NZ workers being gifted an extra statutory holiday from this year as well.

It's not even ridiculous, it's obscene.

Sounds to me like a lot of workers are going to get extra pay. On balance, I would say that's a good thing.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I find it hard to believe there is that much interest in this event in Australia. Our head of state lives on the other side of the planet and may visit here 16 times to attend the horse racing and visit stud farms once in blue moon.



…snip….

FTFY

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

The more holidays the better as far as I am concerned. Not that I will probably see any benefit from it - I get nothing extra for working on a bank holiday.

But you do get an extra day of holiday.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Charles' contretemps with the inkwells was pure Spinal Tap.

Nurse!

I always like it when the PR face slips and we see the actual person.

[RolandRat]

Originally Posted by Darat

But you do get an extra day of holiday.

If it's a bank holiday, employers can make you take it as part of your normal holiday entitlement, can they not?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

If it's a bank holiday, employers can make you take it as part of your normal holiday entitlement, can they not?

Not as far as I’m aware, though it’s an academic question for me now.
ETA: you are correct, I always had generous employers.

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Quote:

Bank holidays
Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.

An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

...
So far no phone call, and Edinburgh is being warned as vitrually a no-go zone traffic wise. I need that recorder for next Saturday, no arguments, new music stand or no new music stand. I wish to hell I'd collected it on Wednesday.

How long is this circus supposed to go on for?

I think the coffin's only to lie in Edinburgh for a day before being flown to London so things should get less mad there after that.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by RolandRat

If it's a bank holiday, employers can make you take it as part of your normal holiday entitlement, can they not?

No, it a statutory holiday so you can’t be contracted out of it. Whether you can take the day off or not is part of your contract. For example most retail employees will be contracted to work bank holidays - but they still get a day added to their holiday entitlement.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

I think the coffin's only to lie in Edinburgh for a day before being flown to London so things should get less mad there after that.

Tonight she’s driving down to the King’s official Scottish residence, then she nips off to St Giles for another snooze and lie down and is then flown down to London Tuesday afternoon.

Serious question - will she have been embalmed and if so when would it have happened?

[angrysoba]

So I see this is the new thing. Let's complain about either having a holiday, or that businesses have to pay workers more money for whole day!

Actually, I do not give a stuff about agencies, which are essentially bloodsuckers to begin with, paying more to employees.

What value do agencies provide anyway? They rake in the money as a go-between, which only results in the person actually doing the job getting less money.

Screw the agencies! Let's have MORE holidays!

[Francesca R]

Friday evening in Covent Garden was a bit quieter than usual but otherwise normal.

On Thursday all the outdoor digital billboards that I could see had suspended advertising and were showing a queen screen, which presumably costs the media companies that run them a day's revenue per day. As of today it looks like those owned by Global are still showing the queen but J C Decaux and Clear Channel ones have gone back to ads, probably making them look like meanies even after they've sacrificed a couple of days' money

[Darat]

I know from (apparently accurate) leaks in the past it was the assumption that everything bar essentials would shutdown until the funeral, there’d be no jollies. I think the folk in charge of the event probably didn’t account for the speed of which we consume everything ‘these days’. I think for most people it is a day or two of being told you are to feel sad and experience grief and a couple of days of telly coverage and then back to normal until the holiday sorry funeral. Don’t think there is any public expectation that there is a need for everything to come to a stop until she finally makes her mind up as to where she is settling.

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by Darat

I I think for most people it is a day or two of being told you are to feel sad and experience grief and a couple of days of telly coverage and then back to normal.

I hope so. Life goes on... . Well not for the dead Queen obviously.

[Steve]

Fortunately here in the northern colonies this is being treated as nothing more than a featured news item. No decision yet about a holiday on funeral day (every day is a holiday for this retiree). Some official government stuff going on and apparently we are in a period of "official mourning" which I have seen no evidence of anyone actually bothering with. And no pro sports events have been cancelled. All in all a reasonable response IMO.

[Mojo]

Originally Posted by Darat

I know from (apparently accurate) leaks in the past it was the assumption that everything bar essentials would shutdown until the funeral, there’d be no jollies. I think the folk in charge of the event probably didn’t account for the speed of which we consume everything ‘these days’. I think for most people it is a day or two of being told you are to feel sad and experience grief and a couple of days of telly coverage and then back to normal until the holiday sorry funeral. Don’t think there is any public expectation that there is a need for everything to come to a stop until she finally makes her mind up as to where she is settling.

Well, yes, but how long is it going to take the media to figure out that “Queen still dead” is not news?

[Lothian]

BBC1 worst police car chase ever

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Mojo

Well, yes, but how long is it going to take the media to figure out that “Queen still dead” is not news?

Well, it’s 25 years since Diana died, and that still generates front page headlines…

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Darat

Tonight she’s driving down to the King’s official Scottish residence, then she nips off to St Giles for another snooze and lie down and is then flown down to London Tuesday afternoon.

Serious question - will she have been embalmed and if so when would it have happened?

AIUI it is a tradition for royalty to be embalmed. I know Queen Elizabeth's father was, as was Diana. I think the idea is that come the Day of Judgement their bodies will be resurrected intact.

[Vixen]

Watching the calvacade zooming towards Edinburgh at a fair speed, brought back memories of Diana's death. It was August Bank Holiday weekend and I was staying at my in-laws in Sutton Coldfield. My son was first to hear the news as he was getting up in the early hours to feed the dachshunds, who had managed to trick this young child into believing they were being starved. M's mother and father were quite early risers, too. I came down saw the Sunday papers saying Diana was in hospital after a car crash. My kid said, Diana died. I said, 'No, she's in hospital' . Chorus: 'No she's dead!'

It was a real shock. I literally did not believe it.

Driving back down the M1, there is always a bit of a traffic jam on approaching London after any weekend of people returning in time for work next day. This time the traffic came to a standstill quite far out and there was little to no traffic in the opposite direction. We soon discovered why: everybody had stopped to 'rubber neck', including ourselves, I have to admit. The hearse carrying Diana's body northwards (towards Althorpe, Northants, [?] I presume) presently went past, the coffin covered by a black cloth. We had heard that Prince Charles had gone to Paris to bring her body home. It was a profound moment, when we realised the enormous historical moment in time of that weekend.

(The flower-throwing stuff was some days later at the funeral.)

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

We are indeed divided on becoming a republic. You can find staunch royalists no problem. Us republicans (absolutely no relation to US Republicans) are getting quietly more common. It remains a current topic locally. Generally, the attitude has been that we should "wait until Lizzy dies, then become a republic". She has, so we quite possibly may.
....

In practical terms, what would a change mean to the average Australian? Do you pay extra taxes to the Crown? Does the monarch have any veto power over the Australian government? Or would it just be symbolic?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Bob001

In practical terms, what would a change mean to the average Australian? Do you pay extra taxes to the Crown? Does the monarch have any veto power over the Australian government? Or would it just be symbolic?

I kinda hope they try it, and Charles nixes is, just to see how the Aussies resolve that constitutional conundrum.

[Francesca R]

Originally Posted by Vixen

[31/8/1997] It was a real shock. I literally did not believe it.

I was woken by Capital Radio reporting the news, and I remember thinking oh, better switch to Radio 4 for this because Capital will segue into the Spice Girls within sixty seconds. I wasn't savvy enough to know that all music stations would play classical for the rest of the long weekend and then ballads for about a week, or that all broadcast media would cover nothing else for days. Actually I remember being a bit annoyed that the Top 40 was not played that Sunday and only the week after we learned that The Verve had got to number 1 with The Drugs Don't Work.

Quote:

We had heard that Prince Charles had gone to Paris to bring her body home. It was a profound moment, when we realised the enormous historical moment in time of that weekend.

The talk was that he had won a ruck with the Queen about using a royal jet for that trip. IIRC when it got back to Northolt, he flew back to Aberdeen in it while they drove Diana down the A40 to somewhere not royal.

BTW good to see the royal motorcade giving the finger to the 30mph speed limit on the (cleared) Westway flyover the other day--Northolt to Victoria Memorial in about 30 min.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally Posted by Vixen

AIUI it is a tradition for royalty to be embalmed. I know Queen Elizabeth's father was, as was Diana. I think the idea is that come the Day of Judgement their bodies will be resurrected intact.

It doesn't occur to them that that could be accomplished with no body at all?

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by Vixen

AIUI it is a tradition for royalty to be embalmed. I know Queen Elizabeth's father was, as was Diana. I think the idea is that come the Day of Judgement their bodies will be resurrected intact.

Don't be daft, if that were the case, the Church of England would be opposed to cremation. More likely it's because they will be lying in state for several days (albeit in a sealed lead-lined coffin), if it isn't just a tradition without any logical origin.

[Rolfe]

My cousin confirms what Darat said, that she'll be gone from Edinburgh on Tuesday. I can cope without the recorder till Wednesday I guess. I have a family funeral to go to tomorrow in any case.

[Rolfe]

Radio 3 has been churning out stuff like Purcell's "Funeral Sentences" (on the death of Queen Mary) all afternoon and since it's actually decent music I let it run and tried not to listen to the continuity spiel. Then I heard the ghastly strains of "Thy choicest gifts in store..." and that was enough. Off switch hit.

[bluesjnr]

Originally Posted by Lothian

BBC1 worst police car chase ever

I had to dash through Fife to stay away from it as I made my way to Edin. airport. Timed it perfectly as she was tucked up in Holyrood when I jumped on the Jet bus at Ferrytoll and the backlog had cleared.

[bluesjnr]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

My cousin confirms what Darat said, that she'll be gone from Edinburgh on Tuesday. I can cope without the recorder till Wednesday I guess. I have a family funeral to go to tomorrow in any case.

Can't you catch a train?

[Rolfe]

Trains? What are these?

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Darat

But you do get an extra day of holiday.

In your dreams. In other words, no I don't.

[Trebuchet]

I haven't watched the Italian GP from the VCR yet but did watch the pre-race. Sky spent about 15 minutes on the Queen and how she attended Jackie Stewart's 80th birthday party, then the race did a minute of silence before the Italian national anthem.

[Darat]

Like the TIME cover - they really caught the Sith in her.

[Rolfe]

I turned the radio back on. Zadok the Priest. Orb and Sceptre. They're on to coronations now. I'm going to YouTube.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Don't be daft, if that were the case, the Church of England would be opposed to cremation. More likely it's because they will be lying in state for several days (albeit in a sealed lead-lined coffin), if it isn't just a tradition without any logical origin.

It's only in more recent times cremation is common. You have to remember the royal family tradition is steeped in history and around years 1500 -1700 people really did believe that Christ's Second Coming was at any moment now. I think even the Victorians were disappointed when the day or reckoning still hadn't arrived. You had to be buried facing East so that when Jesus rose up in the East, the congregation would literally rise up to greet him. Clergymen would be buried facing west so that he could be facing his congregation when that happened. I believe most members of the deceased royal family are lying in a vault under the quire of Windsor St George chapel. The led lined coffin isn't to keep out the odour of decay for mourners, it is to keep the body airtight, which together with the embalmment minimises organic decay. I think if you opened, say Victoria's tomb you'd have a shock as she would look as though she was just sleeping (I am guessing).

I my local Cathedral which dates back to circa 1200, there are at least 5,000 nobles buried beneath the quire. Finland's one monarch that is interred in Finland had her own crypt. All the nobles paid five thousand thaler to be buried under the cathedral floor and they'd pay several thaler per peal of bell when deceased. A form of C16 virtue signalling, I guess.

In addition, don't forget, the Royal Family are a bunch of freemasons. I believe Prince Philip was some kind of grandmaster. As you know, they claim not to be religious but they do seem to have an ancient Egyptian god at their heart. As you know, the ancient Egyptians believed in eternal life and embalming of the body, not to mention the concept of a 'judgement day' with every body's heart weighed by scales. They believed the heart was the centre of one's humanity, whereas Christians have it a more ephemeral 'soul'.

There are a lot of weird practices in the royal family.. The Dean of Westminster at Queen Elizabeth's memorial service said that she was anointed with various oils and incense in a canopy at her coronation, claiming this was for privacy. Actually, it was for esoteric reasons, nothing to do with 'privacy' at all, which echoes the concept of the Ark whereby no man was allowed to see the Holy face behind it and only priests/Levites were allowed.


As with any religion or cult ritual, logic is not a necessary requirement.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Radio 3 has been churning out stuff like Purcell's "Funeral Sentences" (on the death of Queen Mary) all afternoon and since it's actually decent music I let it run and tried not to listen to the continuity spiel. Then I heard the ghastly strains of "Thy choicest gifts in store..." and that was enough. Off switch hit.

Zadok the Priest is possible at the funeral - or is that only for joyous occasions? - anyway, going by past order of services (Victoria, Churchill), I think one hymn will be a dead cert (no pun intended), and that is 'O God our help in ages past'. Perhaps 'All People that on Earth do Dwell', said to be the Queen's personal favourite.

Let's see.

[Rolfe]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

I turned the radio back on. Zadok the Priest. Orb and Sceptre. They're on to coronations now. I'm going to YouTube.

Zadok the priest and Nathan the prophet anointed Solomon king. And all the people rejoiced and said, "Long live the king. May the king live forever!"

What do you think?

[GlennB]

Originally Posted by Vixen

I think if you opened, say Victoria's tomb you'd have a shock as she would look as though she was just sleeping (I am guessing).

Nice idea, but not true. The state of the body would shock people for the precisely opposite reason.

[Rolfe]

I visited an abbey in Austria last month and there where four glass-sided coffins on display in the nave. I don't know if what was in them was real or sculpted, but the bodies appeared very decayed.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

Radio 3 has been churning out stuff like Purcell's "Funeral Sentences" (on the death of Queen Mary) all afternoon and since it's actually decent music I let it run and tried not to listen to the continuity spiel. Then I heard the ghastly strains of "Thy choicest gifts in store..." and that was enough. Off switch hit.

Probably best known to a lot of people as the main title theme in "A Clockwork Orange".