Merged: UK Queen dead? Dying?/Liz Mountbatten's death

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

If the royals weren't parading around doing "look at me being all grieving!", then the opportunity wouldn't arise; they have millions of acres of private (well, some of it's ours) land and houses to be in and grieve privately, but they've chosen to be in public places. They and others have made this a very, very, very public indeed set of events. How many of us did all this sort of thing out in public?

Once it's public you don't get to dictate what everyone else can say and do (well, only if you have the police,the bulk of the media and a load of grovelling politicians on your side...).

Well said. I don’t think any prosecutions will happen over these very minor events.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by wobs

Once in a lifetime opportunity to tell your kids that the money in their piggy bank is now worthless if it has the queen on the coins/notes.

Doesn't work in the US. Only pictures of dead politicians go on our money.

[Carrot Flower King]

And now Sky are censoring John Oliver...Cutting out gags broadcast in the US which us delicate flowers over here will swoon into a fit of the vapours over.

Mother of the free? Only if you conform to the royalist agenda.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

If the royals weren't parading around doing "look at me being all grieving!", then the opportunity wouldn't arise; they have millions of acres of private (well, some of it's ours) land and houses to be in and grieve privately, but they've chosen to be in public places. They and others have made this a very, very, very public indeed set of events. How many of us did all this sort of thing out in public?

Once it's public you don't get to dictate what everyone else can say and do (well, only if you have the police,the bulk of the media and a load of grovelling politicians on your side...).

That. Like I said you can't have it both ways. You can't demand an entire country shut down so you have an entire Macy's Thanksgiving Parade for your funeral because you're just that magical and special AND expect the same level of privacy.

[Carrot Flower King]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rgh-procession

The last couple of paragraphs of that are great: yer man, who was a Para, would be offended by someone writing "Not my king!" on a piece of paper!

And I thought the Paras were the ruffttiest tufftiest regiment going? How did this bod survive if he's "offended" by a mild comment, expressing some perfectly valid dissent?

[TragicMonkey]

All this makes me like the Kardashians better because they at least make their own money, and don't exercise police powers (yet). And --such is the unfairness of life-- attention whoring is just more acceptable from attractive people.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

All this makes me like the Kardashians better because they at least make their own money, and don't exercise police powers (yet). And --such is the unfairness of life-- attention whoring is just more acceptable from attractive people.

Yeah I don't ever want to hear that America is too celebrity focused again.

At least Colonial Williamsburg or Disneyland isn't above Washington D.C. on our political org chart. President Biden doesn't have to ask the "purely symbolic no seriously he has no power we totally mean it I mean he has power but he'll never use it..." great-great-great-greatwhatever grandson of George Washington for rubber stamp approval every time he wipes his ass.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Apparently, as referenced in Marina Hyde's column this afternoon, the lad shouted, "Andrew, you are a sick old man!"

Which is true...

Oh come now, which of us can honestly say that we haven't publicly groped our daughter's arse while mourning our mother's death ?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah I don't ever want to hear that America is too celebrity focused again.

But it is.

Just because, over here, a large number of my countrymen* have lost their collective marbles over an old lady dying, doesn't mean you lot can't be utter loonies too.



*Or, and this is my favoured theory, the press are reporting a collective losing of marbles with just enough loonies taking to the streets to enable them to paint that picture while I, and pretty much everyone I know, couldn't actually give a ****.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by 3point14

But it is.

Just because, over here, a large number of my countrymen* have lost their collective marbles over an old lady dying, doesn't mean you lot can't be utter loonies too.

Yeah but we don't pretend they are our leaders. We don't put the Kardashians above the Executive Branch.

Again I know, Trump, go ahead and get that out the way, but he's an exception, not our system of government going back to William the Conqueror.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by The Don

Oh come now, which of us can honestly say that we haven't publicly groped our daughter's arse while mourning our mother's death ?

Have to wait and see. Mom ain't dead yet. Although at 89 and waiting for a hospice bed (mom, not me) I may find out before too long.

More on topic - that dude is definitely creepy. He should stay hidden away.

[Filippo Lippi]

Originally Posted by Steve

Have to wait and see. Mom ain't dead yet. Although at 89 and waiting for a hospice bed (mom, not me) I may find out before too long.

More on topic - that dude is definitely creepy. He should stay hidden away.

Or be put in the stocks, like the good old days

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by Rolfe

We see this in other situations too. The people who are supporting the cause the police are aligned with, even if they're being violent and shouting vile abuse in someone's face, are protected, while the person being assaulted and shouted at, even though they are protesting peacefully (and often connected with a primary event that has permission to be there, while the abusers are the counter-protesters) are cautioned or escorted away.

The police are wholly partisan and it should be a public outrage.

Here is another one in London,

https://twitter.com/standardnews/sta...70901685862403

The Met Police say the man, who was holding up a piece of paper with "not my king" on it, was merely moved from in front of the gates and not arrested. Part of the problem is the media presenting situations as arrests, which are not arrests.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah but we don't pretend they are our leaders. We don't put the Kardashians above the Executive Branch.

Again I know, Trump, go ahead and get that out the way, but he's an exception, not our system of government going back to William the Conqueror.

On the other hand, we do treat our president like a huge goddamn celebrity.

[GlennB]

In astonishing news -

"Center Parcs has been accused by customers of “ruining people’s holidays” after it announced that it would close its UK sites for 24 hours from Monday morning to mark the Queen’s funeral.

The criticism came after the holiday company announced that guests at its five UK parks would have to leave by 10am on Monday, even if they are in the middle of their stay, and will not be able to return until the same time on Tuesday morning."

Guardian story

Center Parcs rent out lodges in their areas of woodland, with pools and other entertainments available, or something like that.

Absolutely ******* ridiculous. Where are people supposed to go for 24 hours?

[Mr Fied]

Originally Posted by GlennB

In astonishing news -

"Center Parcs has been accused by customers of “ruining people’s holidays” after it announced that it would close its UK sites for 24 hours from Monday morning to mark the Queen’s funeral.

The criticism came after the holiday company announced that guests at its five UK parks would have to leave by 10am on Monday, even if they are in the middle of their stay, and will not be able to return until the same time on Tuesday morning."

Guardian story

Center Parcs rent out lodges in their areas of woodland, with pools and other entertainments available, or something like that.

Absolutely ******* ridiculous. Where are people supposed to go for 24 hours?

To nick a line from another site

"With the prices they charge, I thought it was only royalty that stayed there"

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I get that it's just an arbitrary case of what we're used to but yeah it being a King instead of a Queen just makes it feel way more like England is doing Game of Thrones LARPing.

It just adds another layer of absurdity to it. A King? In 2022 you have a King? An honest to God "He holds this position because he came out of someone's else's vagina in a certain order" flippin' King. Does he have a wizard that sits next to him on his big chair while he wears his big jeweled hat? Does he clap his hands and ask for the Foole to be sent in to entertain him?

Ha ha ha, he's the ******* wizard himself! He's got another big wizard to help him cast magic spells, but he's the big shaman himself in that crazy stuck-in-the-middle-ages-in-these-respects island.

That's another absurdity of the whole UKian psyche. I mean, they're a theocracy and all on paper, at least I don't know if that's the valid term for it but they've got the official church and official religion. That's absurd, but at least they share that absurdity with many other countries both in Europe and in the Middle East. But what takes it another many notches up the crazymeter is the fact that their queen, and now king, are actually supposed to be the head of the church. And these weirdos solemnly line up to pray at those churches that they know 100% sure is headed by someone decidedly not holy. (It's all crazy, but at least with a pope, if you're super stupid and/or if you don't think about it you can go ahead with the "ah ok maybe he's the magic shaman and channels my magic god so let me pray and let me tithe just in case" thing. Here, much like with the scientology dupes, there's no way to even fool yourself. Yet people somehow manage to do just that. They don't really believe, but they maybe do? Tradition, they say, but not really? And in any case we're carrying a hundred thousand kings and queens and princes and dukes and dames and earls and lords and a whole dictionary full of weird titles on our backs, so why not some bishops and archbishops and vicars and priests as well?

A country that solemnly goes to pray in churches that are headed by their ******* queen/king (not sure how they share power, she/he and the archbishop, but whatever), is it any wonder that this country should support these whole army of aristocrats and monarchs? How utterly stupid and how utterly weird this all is. People putting up with this is no less crazy than people voting for Trump, so don't you UKians sneer at what goes on in the US no more.

[The Don]

FFS the start of Strictly has been delayed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62894460

[Filippo Lippi]

First Eastenders, now this. The GLW is going to be livid

[Mr Fied]

Originally Posted by The Don

FFS the start of Strictly has been delayed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62894460

Every cloud

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Darat

Just think - probably be doing this all again in just 20 years - probably still be working when they push up the pension age to take into account the costs of this funeral, energy company profits and so on!

I am sure King Charles' rosacea is caused by things other than a liking for Glenffiditch but having said that, I wonder if he is fit enough to last another twenty years, what with footmen having to place toothpaste on his toothbrush and having to move inkpots out of the way. Does he get any exercise at all?

Enquiring minds need to know.

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by 3point14

But it is.

Just because, over here, a large number of my countrymen* have lost their collective marbles over an old lady dying, doesn't mean you lot can't be utter loonies too.



*Or, and this is my favoured theory, the press are reporting a collective losing of marbles with just enough loonies taking to the streets to enable them to paint that picture while I, and pretty much everyone I know, couldn't actually give a ****.

It's not just that you've lost your marbles over your queen dying. Had it been just that then it wouldn't have been anywhere near as monstrous as all of this actually is. This momentary outpouring of sympathy I can understand, because all said I also think QE2 was a sweet old lady, and I can never feel any antipathy towards her person, and am actually saddened (entirely impersonally, but still) by her passing. [Part of it might have to do with my grandmother being exactly as old as your queen, except the queen outlived her by a couple years, no three years. Anyhoo, whatever.]

Joe's absolutely right. The celebrity worship in the US is crazy, but no more so than the celebrity (read monarchy-plus-aristocracy) worship in the UK. If anything it's worse in the UK, because at least in the US the celebrities earn their celebrity (no matter how dubious the "earning" in many cases, but it's still earned). Here you carry this whole army of aristocrats and monarchs and whatnot, and their stupendous unearned wealth, and their unbelieveable political power, on your backs. And don't forget your church, that also you carry on your backs, and literally worship at, that is headed by your sovereign of all people (although I understand top-shaman-hood is shared with the archbishop, something like that, but still).

Have you seen that twitter thing linked in the previous page, where this protester boos Andrew the pedo, and people --- not the police, but the people --- yank him back with force and hurl him to the ground, and then, keep chanting "God save the king"? Sure USians are crazy in their celebrity worship. But you're no better, sorry, not even a little bit.



eta: whoops, sorry, I seem to be unable to stop ranting away. My third or fourth post in this vein in this thread, not the kind of thing I usually do. Somehow this business seems to have triggered me off, I realize. I'd best stop posting in this thread for a while!

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Ha ha ha, he's the ******* wizard himself! He's got another big wizard to help him cast magic spells, but he's the big shaman himself in that crazy stuck-in-the-middle-ages-in-these-respects island.

That's another absurdity of the whole UKian psyche. I mean, they're a theocracy and all on paper, at least I don't know if that's the valid term for it but they've got the official church and official religion. That's absurd, but at least they share that absurdity with many other countries both in Europe and in the Middle East. But what takes it another many notches up the crazymeter is the fact that their queen, and now king, are actually supposed to be the head of the church. And these weirdos solemnly line up to pray at those churches that they know 100% sure is headed by someone decidedly not holy. (It's all crazy, but at least with a pope, if you're super stupid and/or if you don't think about it you can go ahead with the "ah ok maybe he's the magic shaman and channels my magic god so let me pray and let me tithe just in case" thing. Here, much like with the scientology dupes, there's no way to even fool yourself. Yet people somehow manage to do just that. They don't really believe, but they maybe do? Tradition, they say, but not really? And in any case we're carrying a hundred thousand kings and queens and princes and dukes and dames and earls and lords and a whole dictionary full of weird titles on our backs, so why not some bishops and archbishops and vicars and priests as well?

A country that solemnly goes to pray in churches that are headed by their ******* queen/king (not sure how they share power, she/he and the archbishop, but whatever), is it any wonder that this country should support these whole army of aristocrats and monarchs? How utterly stupid and how utterly weird this all is. People putting up with this is no less crazy than people voting for Trump, so don't you UKians sneer at what goes on in the US no more.

Rather like the Scandinavian countries that also have an official religion, the church seems to have comparatively little influence (with the exception of Northern Ireland), whilst in the US where there is officially a separation, religion is very powerful.

[zooterkin]

Sensitive timing.

Quote:

Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the throne.

Private secretaries, the finance office, the communications team and household staff are among those who received notice during the thanksgiving service for the Queen, at St Giles’ Cathedral in Edinburgh on Monday, that their posts were on the line.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

This is completely, totally insupportable. Had I been a UKian, I'd certainly had my blood pressure shoot up just thinking about it. Even as it is, personally having exactly zero to do with what happens in your country, just thinking about it gets me more ...furious, than might be strictly reasonable I suppose, given I have zero stake here.

These whole legions of freeloading species of "titles", in this day and age living the way they do and doing what they do with near impunity. This Andrew character, this disgusting pedo --- well okay, likely pedo, alleged pedo --- gets to parade around with complete impunity, while people who simply shout out their outrage with this disgusting creep, or simply write out their protest quietly on a piece of paper, get ******* hauled off by the police, while the ******* pedo goes on with his life, wallowing in his unearned undeserved luxury, and eminence even, same as his freeloading and "eminent" brothers and cousins and friends?!!!

How the **** do you live with this, how? How the **** do you go around with your lives, while having these worthless freeloading ******** battening off of you day in and day out? I just don't ******* get it.



eta:



Had missed this. Wow, ******* wow. Words fail. This is ...******* crazy, this, this whole thing, all of it.

Maybe now or in this thread is not the time for it, but you do know that King Charles III is listed several times in Epstein's black book, over several different residences and various telephone numbers? He was a close friend of a defrocked vicar and lifelong friend of Jimmy Savile. It is hard to see how we are all supposed to look up to him as an exemplar of nobility.

Camilla and Kate are both commoners. One was a Catholic, a divorcee and an adulterer. I am sure she is very nice, but I shan't be curtseying (except perhaps out of politeness). Now that royalty are marrying out into the common folk to deal with the problems of inbreeding, one wonders whether there is any point to it all. How can there be levelling up when people are obsessed with titles, rank and social class. There is a similar situation in Sweden. All the old families hang on to old titles. I tried to join the Nach och Dag noble family group but was told my noble ancestor predated 1627 or some such ridiculous deadline. So glad we don't have that class system here in Finland. The things people do to make themselves seem superior. Crowns, tall hats, expensive jewellery, long hyphenated names, la-di-da titles.

I had to laugh at a news item today about the newly titled Prince and Princess of Wales (was Cambridge) saying how much they loved Wales and had made a point of visiting there at every opportunity. I can just imagine Prince William saying to little Prince George, whilst sweeping his hand over the Welsh scenery, 'One day, son, this will all be yours'.

They really do believe they own the entire country. Edinburgh Castle just the local church in which to rest one's grandmother, whilst the hearse makes its way to the corner Cathedral at Westminster, and by heck, Ma'am's funeral had better be more ostentatious than Churchill's, as befits a monarch!

</rant>

[Rolfe]

Hah, at a family funeral yesterday a group of cousins were talking about some genealogical research one of them had been doing. Apparently I have a cousin who is a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce (on her mother's side, her father was my mother's brother).

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by Chanakya

Ha ha ha, he's the ******* wizard himself! He's got another big wizard to help him cast magic spells, but he's the big shaman himself in that crazy stuck-in-the-middle-ages-in-these-respects island.

That's another absurdity of the whole UKian psyche. I mean, they're a theocracy and all on paper, at least I don't know if that's the valid term for it but they've got the official church and official religion. That's absurd, but at least they share that absurdity with many other countries both in Europe and in the Middle East. But what takes it another many notches up the crazymeter is the fact that their queen, and now king, are actually supposed to be the head of the church. And these weirdos solemnly line up to pray at those churches that they know 100% sure is headed by someone decidedly not holy. (It's all crazy, but at least with a pope, if you're super stupid and/or if you don't think about it you can go ahead with the "ah ok maybe he's the magic shaman and channels my magic god so let me pray and let me tithe just in case" thing. Here, much like with the scientology dupes, there's no way to even fool yourself. Yet people somehow manage to do just that. They don't really believe, but they maybe do? Tradition, they say, but not really? And in any case we're carrying a hundred thousand kings and queens and princes and dukes and dames and earls and lords and a whole dictionary full of weird titles on our backs, so why not some bishops and archbishops and vicars and priests as well?

A country that solemnly goes to pray in churches that are headed by their ******* queen/king (not sure how they share power, she/he and the archbishop, but whatever), is it any wonder that this country should support these whole army of aristocrats and monarchs? How utterly stupid and how utterly weird this all is. People putting up with this is no less crazy than people voting for Trump, so don't you UKians sneer at what goes on in the US no more.

Slight correction here: that only applies, if it really applies, to the Church of England; many of us (possibly a majority, CBA to look up figures) never were anything to do with that, even before we bailed on the churches we were brought up in.

As for getting shot of the remains of the aristocracy, quite a number of us are right with you. However, they still retain a great deal of power and even more influence: we missed the time for an armed uprising several centuries ago when it was fashionable across Europe, it isn't happening now. No major political party is going to stand on any platform which includes abolition of aristocracy, as that is "the politics of envy", that meaninglessly empty criticism from the right, and will be castigated by the bulk of our media.

Organisations like Republic exist, but they are not viewed as at all close to mainstream, even though Republic's membership has gone up lately.

If you lived with the TV and radio coverage of any royal event in my lifetime (Chucky's investiture as Prince of Wales in a newly made up ceremony in 1969; the horrors of the 1977 Silver Jubilee; all the weddings of Brenda Spawn; Diana's death; and on and on and on) you'd see how any even slightly dissenting view is squashed.

Yes, there were many complaints to the BBC about their coverage of the Corfiot's death and there are far fewer about Brenda's death, but we shall never know how many folk think what we did: why bother? You'll just ignore us again.

[theprestige]

"Who's that?"

"Robert."

"Robert Smith?"

"No, the other one. The Bruce."

"Why don't they just call him Bruce, then?"

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by theprestige

"Who's that?"

"Robert."

"Robert Smith?"

"No, the other one. The Bruce."

"Why don't they just call him Bruce, then?"

'Cos he wasn't in charge of sheep dip, obviously.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

…snip… Does he clap his hands and ask for the Foole to be sent in to entertain him?

From what I understand she is following him about for a week or two. After that it’s just once a week.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King

Slight correction here: that only applies, if it really applies, to the Church of England; many of us (possibly a majority, CBA to look up figures) never were anything to do with that, even before we bailed on the churches we were brought up in.

Yeah but you still have an Official Church of England. You have to recognize how weird that is to us from the United Assault Rifles of Bald Eagle Land.

Much like the Monarchy the discussion seems to always go:

"Does having this make you nervous?"
"No because it has no power, it can't do anything."
"Then why do you have it?"

It's like if the Presidential Cabinet here in the United Mobility Scooters of Piss Beer had a "Secretary of Slave Relations" or "Executive Manager of the Louisiana Purchase" or a "Department of Indian Affairs" -- okay bad example, or whatever that didn't do anything but was just... still there for no reason and when asked why they were still there "Don't worry, they can't do anything" was the reason.

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I get that it's just an arbitrary case of what we're used to but yeah it being a King instead of a Queen just makes it feel way more like England is doing Game of Thrones LARPing.

It just adds another layer of absurdity to it. A King? In 2022 you have a King? An honest to God "He holds this position because he came out of someone's else's vagina in a certain order" flippin' King. Does he have a wizard that sits next to him on his big chair while he wears his big jeweled hat? Does he clap his hands and ask for the Foole to be sent in to entertain him?

He meets her weekly.

[theprestige]

I kinda like how Liz was queen for sixty years, but suddenly on the day of her death people are coming out of the woodwork acting all surprised, like 'wait, what? A queen? When did this happen? It makes no sense at all! What a travesty!"

I guess maybe it's not wanting to be left out? When a nation puts on a show of mourning its dead monarch, the hardcore anti-monarchists feel they need to put on a show of how much they hate the idea of monarchy. It's the only equitable way.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah but you still have an Official Church of England. You have to recognize how weird that is to us from the United Assault Rifles of Bald Eagle Land.

It's the established church (CBA to supply references now, 'cos nice gin - a Hendrick's limited edition one), which is not the same as "official" - most of us just ignore it and it holds little sway apart from the bleedin' obvious of certain bishops being part of the House of Lords (this is another set of stories...).

[Carrot Flower King]

As an aside: how possible is it for a professed atheist to get elected to any public office in the US? How many RC presidents have there been?

There are "official" churches and "official" beliefs, eh?

We all are exposed to and governed by "official" narratives and ways of being, not to mention all the unofficial ones...

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by theprestige

I kinda like how Liz was queen for sixty years, but suddenly on the day of her death people are coming out of the woodwork acting all surprised, like 'wait, what? A queen? When did this happen? It makes no sense at all! What a travesty!"

I guess maybe it's not wanting to be left out? When a nation puts on a show of mourning its dead monarch, the hardcore anti-monarchists feel they need to put on a show of how much they hate the idea of monarchy. It's the only equitable way.

I know, right? It's so weird that people don't mention they don't like cheesecake until you're around cheesecake, talking about cheesecake, or serving cheesecake.

[GlennB]

Insanity upon insanity -

"The Queen’s funeral has led to the cancellations of thousands of hospital appointments, funerals, theatre performances and the closure of museums, supermarkets and even food banks.

Several NHS trusts, including Bedfordshire hospitals and Norfolk and Norwich University Hospitals, and the Aneurin Bevan health board in Gwent were among the first to confirm the cancellation of planned appointments on Monday.

Emergency, urgent and cancer services will still go ahead in these areas and others but only a reduced routine service will run.

Operations cancelled include hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery, maternity checks and some cancer treatments."

I knew we're a weird country sometimes, but not this weird.

[Darat]

It is so important that we all observe this period of mourning whilst we all cope with the terrible news.

Great time to send notice of possible redundancy to your staff eh Charlie boy?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...vice-for-queen

…..Dozens of Clarence House staff have been given notice of their redundancy as the offices of King Charles and the Queen Consort move to Buckingham Palace after the death of the Queen, the Guardian has learned.

Up to 100 employees at the King’s former official residence, including some who have worked there for decades, received notification that they could lose their jobs just as they were working round the clock to smooth his elevation to the ….throne.

Be terrible if they got an extra paid week or two.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I know, right? It's so weird that people don't mention they don't like cheesecake until you're around cheesecake, talking about cheesecake, or serving cheesecake.

I mean, if cheesecake has been a thing for sixty years, and every day your neighbors have cheesecake for dessert, that seems like it should be plenty of time for you to get over your mad and stop obsessing about how much you hate cheesecake.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I know, right? It's so weird that people don't mention they don't like cheesecake until you're around cheesecake, talking about cheesecake, or serving cheesecake.

Certainly I’ve never said a bad word about the royals until her death was announced, then it just seems to have gushed out.