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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:14 PM   #1641
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder if what happened in 1972 is not repeating itself where the GOP managed to damage the more viable Democratic candidates and ended up helping the nomination of a candidate who had no chance in November.
That was Hillaryís plan in 2016. Didnít work out as expected.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:18 PM   #1642
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
They are still voters. It is foolish to expect to educate them, so they will take their low information to the ballot box. Candidates need to remember that instead of meaning something that the voters don't understand. ...
I don't expect to educate any low information voters out there.

I am though, trying to point out to some voters and posters in this thread who should not be low information voters that they've posted low-information-voter stereotypical statements.

I just want them to take a second look at their assumptions not supported by the evidence.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:19 PM   #1643
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood your post.
I have no idea, since you didn't tell me how you interpreted it.

It was a joke. Starting a bank might not be progressive. A blood bank might be more acceptable.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:21 PM   #1644
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Put all of the quotes together and yes, he has.
Quotes aren't mathematics. You can't add quotes that don't say what you want and then claim that they collectively do.

Admit it: your claim is based on interpreting dudalb's posts; reading between the lines i.e. adding information that isn't there. Now, you might be right that he thinks that, but you cannot show that he said it, because he didn't.

Quote:
I don't understand why, when the subject is x and you bring up y, you think me pointing out that y is irrelevant qualifies as a "challenge to a duel".
It's your reaction. Instead of just answering the question, as another poster did, you took it as some sort of an argument. It wasn't.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:23 PM   #1645
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Thatís bad news for Biden....

From Wikipedia:
Withdrew his candidacy due to school plagiarism.

Can you imagine that today?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:27 PM   #1646
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Is there anybody who could reunite the country at this point?

Biden' can't, and Bernie would divide it worse then ever, and not to confident about any of the other dem candidates be able to do that.
I am pessimistic. I am taking the relection of TRump as a given, and catastrophe to follow. I think the US people will just have to learn the Hard Way.
Yes, because running on justice and a fair system for ordinary Americans is divisive. Not because billionaire-run and backed media outlets will be running dumb socialist scare campaigns. Comes after the Bernie is unelectable ******** and the realisation that another centrist who maintains a system that benefits the uber wealthy is not what people want.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:34 PM   #1647
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Withdrew his candidacy due to school plagiarism.

Can you imagine that today?
Yes, I can. In fact, I can expect it to be dredged up again.

Of course, Trump actually made an entirely fraudulent university, but lucky for him, nobody cares.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:35 PM   #1648
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't expect to educate any low information voters out there.

I am though, trying to point out to some voters and posters in this thread who should not be low information voters that they've posted low-information-voter stereotypical statements.

I just want them to take a second look at their assumptions not supported by the evidence.
I'm not sure who has said that. You could be right, though.

That said, the point is that making it a campaign issue is electoral suicide.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:38 PM   #1649
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Yes, because running on justice and a fair system for ordinary Americans is divisive. Not because billionaire-run and backed media outlets will be running dumb socialist scare campaigns. Comes after the Bernie is unelectable ******** and the realisation that another centrist who maintains a system that benefits the uber wealthy is not what people want.



Americans want change, yes, but I don't think they want to turn into a Euro style Social Democratic state overnight.

I see Bernie just said he wants what amounts to a federal takeover of the power industry. That is the knd of thing that scares a lot of people who don't like Trump.

ANyway, your hatred of centrist and moderates is noted.

And I suspect you don't really like private business very much anyway.
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Last edited by dudalb; 3rd February 2020 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:45 PM   #1650
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beginning to wonder if what happened in 1972 is not repeating itself where the GOP managed to damage the more viable Democratic candidates and ended up helping the nomination of a candidate who had no chance in November.
I was a bit out of touch in 1972, having been drafted and sent to South Korea to serve my country. News was scarce. I voted for Nixon. Because McGovern was a loon.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:47 PM   #1651
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Withdrew his candidacy due to school plagiarism.

Can you imagine that today?
The media totally flubbed that story when it broke, and apparently never got it.

It was all over the media. Plagiarism, plagiarism, plagiarism.


If you're a journalist, plagiarism probably seemed like a big deal, and they reported that that was the issue. In truth, no one cared then, and no one cares now.


However, one of the speeches Biden plagiarized was a speech by a Briton by the name of Neil Kinnock. In that speech, Kinnock talked about his ancestors who were coal miners. Biden used the same lines, nearly verbatim,

except, Biden's ancestors weren't coal miners.

That, the fact that he plagiarized ancestors, was what creeped people out about Biden. The fact that he didn't give credit to the original writer of the speech is something that only a reporter would care about.

I think it was sufficiently creepy that it will hurt him this time around as well, but I would still vote for him.

I wish that one of his Democratic rivals would bring it up, just to see if it's still an issue that will linger.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:47 PM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I was a bit out of touch in 1972, having been drafted and sent to South Korea to serve my country. News was scarce. I voted for Nixon. Because McGovern was a loon.
The GOP played games in the Dem Primaries to discredit the more electable candidates. I suggest the GOP might be doing the same thing.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:48 PM   #1653
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think most American are not nearly as far to the left as you are, pal.


They want change, yes, but I don't think they want to turn into a Euro style Social Democratic state overnight.

I see Bernie just said he wants what amounts to a federal takeover of the power industry. That is the knd of thing that scares a lot of people who don't like Trump.

ANyway, your hatred of centrist and moderates is noted.
Hatred of a system that benefits the one percent who feed these kinds of narratives through the media corporations they own. A passion for a fairer world where workers get a fair slice of the pie and the end to obscene paychecks and bonuses to those who benefit from their sweat. A world where quality healthcare and life sustaining drugs are a right. A world where kids get fed and educated equally well.

The system is rigged and its time something was done.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:03 PM   #1654
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Hatred of a system that benefits the one percent who feed these kinds of narratives through the media corporations they own. A passion for a fairer world where workers get a fair slice of the pie and the end to obscene paychecks and bonuses to those who benefit from their sweat. A world where quality healthcare and life sustaining drugs are a right. A world where kids get fed and educated equally well.

The system is rigged and its time something was done.
Voting Democrat isn't doing something, though. It's just giving the keys to the system to a different faction. A faction produced by the system. A faction that is sheltered and nurtured by the system.

You know why Obama got elected? He promised Change. You know why Trump got elected? Because Obama didn't deliver.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:06 PM   #1655
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Based on the returns, looks like I will have to learn to spell Buttigieg.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:07 PM   #1656
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
You know why Obama got elected? He promised Change. You know why Trump got elected? Because Obama didn't deliver.
That doesn't work for me. Obama got re-elected, after all. And he could have won a third term, probably, if he was eligible. Clinton wasn't that convincing as an Obama surrogate given that she had battled with him in the previous election.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:08 PM   #1657
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The media totally flubbed that story when it broke, and apparently never got it.

It was all over the media. Plagiarism, plagiarism, plagiarism.


If you're a journalist, plagiarism probably seemed like a big deal, and they reported that that was the issue. In truth, no one cared then, and no one cares now.


However, one of the speeches Biden plagiarized was a speech by a Briton by the name of Neil Kinnock. In that speech, Kinnock talked about his ancestors who were coal miners. Biden used the same lines, nearly verbatim,

except, Biden's ancestors weren't coal miners.

That, the fact that he plagiarized ancestors, was what creeped people out about Biden. The fact that he didn't give credit to the original writer of the speech is something that only a reporter would care about.

I think it was sufficiently creepy that it will hurt him this time around as well, but I would still vote for him.

I wish that one of his Democratic rivals would bring it up, just to see if it's still an issue that will linger.
I think it's a good demonstration of Biden's character: he's a fake, who will say anything to try to look appealing to the public. And it wasn't just the one incident, either, he's been caught plagiarizing multiple times. He kept on doing it, too, which again speaks to his character: he either doesn't learn from his mistakes or he simply thinks he can get away with them. How many other scruples does he lack? We've already got a president without shame, the prospect of another one doesn't appeal to me.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:12 PM   #1658
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Hatred of a system that benefits the one percent who feed these kinds of narratives through the media corporations they own. A passion for a fairer world where workers get a fair slice of the pie and the end to obscene paychecks and bonuses to those who benefit from their sweat. A world where quality healthcare and life sustaining drugs are a right. A world where kids get fed and educated equally well.

The system is rigged and its time something was done.
Thanks for just confirming my opinion you just don't like and kind of private enterprise. You seem to want total state control of everything.

I think you are probably more radical then Bernie. Your spouting of the Marx surprise value crap shows that.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:17 PM   #1659
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think it's a good demonstration of Biden's character: he's a fake, who will say anything to try to look appealing to the public. And it wasn't just the one incident, either, he's been caught plagiarizing multiple times. He kept on doing it, too, which again speaks to his character: he either doesn't learn from his mistakes or he simply thinks he can get away with them. How many other scruples does he lack? We've already got a president without shame, the prospect of another one doesn't appeal to me.
The worst thing about the plagiarism/fake ancestry story is that it won't play as well among Democrats as it will among the general population. In other words, it probably won't stop him from getting the nomination, but it might hurt his chances to beat Trump.


Which is ironic, given Trump and all, but voters are weird.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:18 PM   #1660
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm not sure who has said that. You could be right, though.

That said, the point is that making it a campaign issue is electoral suicide.
The main claim that set me off was claiming Steyer was the opposite of what he is:

Lumping him in with the corporate mess he's been working against for a decade because he's a billionaire
Assuming the article about foreclosure on car loans and the high interest mentioned was indicative of what the bank was about when that was not true
The interest rate was disturbing. That needs to be investigated. But it doesn't mean Steyer isn't what he says he is: against corporate influence in government.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:21 PM   #1661
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The media totally flubbed that story when it broke, and apparently never got it.

It was all over the media. Plagiarism, plagiarism, plagiarism.


If you're a journalist, plagiarism probably seemed like a big deal, and they reported that that was the issue. In truth, no one cared then, and no one cares now.


However, one of the speeches Biden plagiarized was a speech by a Briton by the name of Neil Kinnock. In that speech, Kinnock talked about his ancestors who were coal miners. Biden used the same lines, nearly verbatim,

except, Biden's ancestors weren't coal miners.

That, the fact that he plagiarized ancestors, was what creeped people out about Biden. The fact that he didn't give credit to the original writer of the speech is something that only a reporter would care about.

I think it was sufficiently creepy that it will hurt him this time around as well, but I would still vote for him.

I wish that one of his Democratic rivals would bring it up, just to see if it's still an issue that will linger.
As much as I hate to say it, Biden's very flawed past needs to come out now because it surely will in the general election.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:21 PM   #1662
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Voting Democrat isn't doing something, though. It's just giving the keys to the system to a different faction. A faction produced by the system. A faction that is sheltered and nurtured by the system.

You know why Obama got elected? He promised Change. You know why Trump got elected? Because Obama didn't deliver.
Bernie isnít a Democrat.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:21 PM   #1663
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think it's a good demonstration of Biden's character: he's a fake, who will say anything to try to look appealing to the public. And it wasn't just the one incident, either, he's been caught plagiarizing multiple times. He kept on doing it, too, which again speaks to his character: he either doesn't learn from his mistakes or he simply thinks he can get away with them. How many other scruples does he lack? We've already got a president without shame, the prospect of another one doesn't appeal to me.

Sorry, but claiming that BIden is no better then Trump because of the plagiarism issue is a bit much.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:22 PM   #1664
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Bernie isn’t a Democrat.
Then he is a hypocrite for running for the Democratic Party nomination. He is an outsider attempting a coup. Just like Donnie.
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Last edited by dudalb; 3rd February 2020 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:24 PM   #1665
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Voting Democrat isn't doing something, though. It's just giving the keys to the system to a different faction. A faction produced by the system. A faction that is sheltered and nurtured by the system.

You know why Obama got elected? He promised Change. You know why Trump got elected? Because Obama didn't deliver.
What total garbage.
Like the GOP Is not produced by "the system".
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:24 PM   #1666
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The main claim that set me off was claiming Steyer was the opposite of what he is:

Lumping him in with the corporate mess he's been working against for a decade because he's a billionaire
Assuming the article about foreclosure on car loans and the high interest mentioned was indicative of what the bank was about when that was not true
The interest rate was disturbing. That needs to be investigated. But it doesn't mean Steyer isn't what he says he is: against corporate influence in government.
Which was not "the claim". I never said word one about him being a billionaire. I don't care about that. It was that he started a bank. Banks are not good, and people who start them are not doing a good thing for the public. It's not something a progressive would boast about.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:25 PM   #1667
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Sorry, but claiming that BIden is no better then Trump because of the plagiarism issue is a bit much.
I didn't claim he was "no better than Trump". I pointed out that they share a similarity, I didn't judge them by assessing the degree of their failings under that heading.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:26 PM   #1668
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think it's a good demonstration of Biden's character: he's a fake, who will say anything to try to look appealing to the public. And it wasn't just the one incident, either, he's been caught plagiarizing multiple times. He kept on doing it, too, which again speaks to his character: he either doesn't learn from his mistakes or he simply thinks he can get away with them. How many other scruples does he lack? We've already got a president without shame, the prospect of another one doesn't appeal to me.
Biden, a career politician, has been corrupt for his entire career. People on this forum (who are outliers in every sense) talk about Trump's corruption. But Biden is the backdrop against which Trump parades on stage.

Everybody likes to pretend their politician isn't corrupt. The reality is that most corruption is concealed behind an event horizon. Trump is a naked singularity of corruption. But even if you vote him out, the SMBH in Washington will remain.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:26 PM   #1669
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm convinced, by the past half-dozen pages of this thread, that the Dems are screwed and Trump will be reelected.
In 2016, the R party didn't want Trump to be nominated, but when he did they bent over backward to support his every tweet.
D's aren't capable of doing that.
It's still early, but if we're going to play that game, I'm convinced based on what I've seen from actual voters in Iowa so far that Dems have a great chance to outvote Donald Trump.

Voters switching from Yang to Buttigieg, to Klobuchar, to Warren, and Sanders and Biden sharing a sizable portion of their voters. Just the turnout in the state right now is impressive.

Seems people really do want Trump out.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:28 PM   #1670
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The more I think about, the more I am troubled by the idea of both our major parties being taken over by an outside coup.I wonder if we might not be looking at the end of the two party system in the US, with both major parties discredited in the eyes of many voters.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:31 PM   #1671
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Which was not "the claim". I never said word one about him being a billionaire. I don't care about that. It was that he started a bank. Banks are not good, and people who start them are not doing a good thing for the public. It's not something a progressive would boast about.
And what would you replace them with?

Some banks are good, others bad, but they serve a needful purpose, unless you want to go to a system where the government totally controls finiances.
And that has been tried, and has failed miserably.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:31 PM   #1672
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Biden, a career politician, has been corrupt for his entire career. People on this forum (who are outliers in every sense) talk about Trump's corruption. But Biden is the backdrop against which Trump parades on stage.

Everybody likes to pretend their politician isn't corrupt. The reality is that most corruption is concealed behind an event horizon. Trump is a naked singularity of corruption. But even if you vote him out, the SMBH in Washington will remain.
I'm not sure "being fake" equals "being corrupt" in the first place. Even if it did, there are degrees of corruption. The "senator from MBNA" may well be more desirable in office than a store-brand mafioso wannabe trying to "do deals" with Ukraine.

And I disagree that "everyone likes to pretend their politician isn't corrupt". Some people are well aware of the problem but tolerate it, either because they can't do anything about it, or because they're willing to accept it in order to get other things. There was a recent kerfluffle in Congress about somebody accused of corruption, and one of the parties seemed to be okay with it anyway.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:31 PM   #1673
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The more I think about, the more I am troubled by the idea of both our major parties being taken over by an outside coup.I wonder if we might not be looking at the end of the two party system in the US, with both major parties discredited in the eyes of many voters.
Tell us more about this outside coup.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:32 PM   #1674
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And what would you replace them with?

Some banks are good, others bad, but they serve a needful purpose, unless you want to go to a system where the government totally controls finiances.
And that has been tried, and has failed miserably.
With the thing I said in the original post that threw SG into such a froth: credit unions.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:33 PM   #1675
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I wonder if Klobuchar will drop out. A fifth place finish doesn't bode well. I cant see her getting past Biden and Bloomberg for the center-left vote.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:34 PM   #1676
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Biden, a career politician, has been corrupt for his entire career. People on this forum (who are outliers in every sense) talk about Trump's corruption. But Biden is the backdrop against which Trump parades on stage.

Everybody likes to pretend their politician isn't corrupt. The reality is that most corruption is concealed behind an event horizon. Trump is a naked singularity of corruption. But even if you vote him out, the SMBH in Washington will remain.
AH, the your;re another attack.
And you admit that Trump is corrupt????
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:35 PM   #1677
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The more I think about, the more I am troubled by the idea of both our major parties being taken over by an outside coup.I wonder if we might not be looking at the end of the two party system in the US, with both major parties discredited in the eyes of many voters.
outside coup? Are you talking about more election meddling.

I sometimes imagine what would happen if Russia tried to or acted like it'd try to help Sanders or Biden against Trump. That'd cause a lot of confused outrage I think. And Trump, unlike Obama, would definitely call it out before the election was over and declare the election illegitimate.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:35 PM   #1678
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
With the thing I said in the original post that threw SG into such a froth: credit unions.
Banks can do things Credit Unions cannot when it come to loans.
Something tells me you don't have a great knowledge of how the economy works.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.

Last edited by dudalb; 3rd February 2020 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:36 PM   #1679
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
outside coup? Are you talking about more election meddling.

I sometimes imagine what would happen if Russia tried to or acted like it'd try to help Sanders or Biden against Trump. That'd cause a lot of confused outrage I think. And Trump, unlike Obama, would definitely call it out before the election was over and declare the election illegitimate.
Nope that Bernie who has been an indepdent all his career, has all of a sudden become a Democrat...just like a certain ex reality show host.
One of his biggest backer here just bragged that Bernie was not a Democrat.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:37 PM   #1680
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Banks can do things Credit Unions cannot.
And the reason for that is because the banks told the politicians how to write the laws to prevent the banks from losing more ground to credit unions. That unfair "system" the progressives want to fix? The banks are one of the creators of that system.
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