2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III - Page 83

Brainster · 3rd March 2020, 11:02 AM

For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%.

Time to start calling him the comeback codger?

plague311 · 3rd March 2020, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%.

Time to start calling him the comeback codger?

I hope not, Biden is a ******* dumb ass.

TragicMonkey · 3rd March 2020, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%.

Time to start calling him the comeback codger?

Biden's on fire! Just like the time he was personally present when that monk self-immolated to protest in Vietnam.

varwoche · 3rd March 2020, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I hope not, Biden is a ******* dumb ass.

Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain.

TragicMonkey · 3rd March 2020, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain.

I don't often suggest this, but Biden should do cocaine. Like, a lot of it. I think it would really boost his performance, his appeal, and his personality. Just coke him up 80s style and he'll triple his chances. Or if he loses anyway at least he'll have had fun and found a new hobby, so it's a definite win-win. And it's not like he needs to worry about long-term health effects, he's 97 so just go for it!

plague311 · 3rd March 2020, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain.

Truer words have not been spoken. The man is a constant barrage of gaffes and stupid statements.

plague311 · 3rd March 2020, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I don't often suggest this, but Biden should do cocaine. Like, a lot of it. I think it would really boost his performance, his appeal, and his personality. Just coke him up 80s style and he'll triple his chances. Or if he loses anyway at least he'll have had fun and found a new hobby, so it's a definite win-win. And it's not like he needs to worry about long-term health effects, he's 97 so just go for it!

Hunter has probably already tried to get him to partake...

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Actually a lot to lose... Maybe they are actually honorable democrats who actually see the danger in having Trump in power, and want to resign because, even if they could stick around and hope for a miracle (without it costing anything, they recognize that its more valuable to the country to have the democrats coalesce around a front runner early on.

Sure, if you assume like you apparently do that Biden has a better chance at beating Trump than Bernie. I do not agree, and feel rather strongly about that. So I take exception to your grandstanding use of the word "honorable", as if to support Bernie is the dishonorable thing to do.

Quote:

Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump.

Hillary was a flawed candidate to begin with. I still think Bernie would have won where Hillary did not. Compare that to now, where it looks like to me the Democratic party is making the same goddamn mistake again.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Uhhh... no. He may end up being the Democratic nominee. He will need all possible resources to battle Trump. Pissing off a good chunk of those resources is not the way to go.

Yeah, it's OK only if you piss off the good chunk that supports Bernie.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that.

They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie".

I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when I think a huge mistake is being made. You're last sentence is oh so condescending.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

The eventual winner should ideally have a majority of the voters and delegates hind them before the convention (not just a plurality).

What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question.

Childlike Empress · 3rd March 2020, 12:08 PM

To quote from the article I've posted in the caucuses thread:

Originally Posted by Caitlin Johnstone

The only problem? Biden’s brain is turning into sauerkraut.

Can you imagine Biden-Trump debates? It won't be pretty.

Beelzebuddy · 3rd March 2020, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Can you imagine Biden-Trump debates? It won't be pretty.

It'll be fine. Neither one of them have moved on from Obama.

theprestige · 3rd March 2020, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question.

What are even the options?

a) four more years in the wildnerness

b) a brokered candidate that underperforms the polling models

c) ?

JoeMorgue · 3rd March 2020, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question.

Honestly? In that case then the "parties" as entities have failed and they just don't get to nominate anyone. If they can't agree on a candidate what are they even wasting our time with? At that point it would be a dog and pony show without the dogs and ponies.

In an ideal world the Democrats just don't put up a candidate. Sanders and Biden both run as independents or they don't run at all.

Now I'm realistic and that's absolute political suicide so... no we shouldn't actually do that here in the real world in which we are currently exist.

But I think "parties" as a base concept are stupid so I have adjust where I start argument from and when to have it.

In my ideal world this wouldn't happen because the American people would just vote for who they think is the best candidate without waiting for a political party to ordain them.

But in my ideal world we wouldn't have the EC and first past the post voting that make not playing the game political suicide and worse then useless but outright counter productive so... ya know.

Meadmaker · 3rd March 2020, 01:23 PM

Isn't it time to do away with conventions?

I'm not sure what should replace them, but they are seriously 19th century.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Steyer, Kamala, et al. didn't drop out right before a big election and immediately endorse someone.

So? You think that's relevant somehow?

Quote:

I don't think it is unfair or anything, but it is pretty clear what they are doing with the recent drop-outs and endorsements. Though for Warren it probably does seem unfair.

What's clear is the tendency in general toward paranoia that the Democratic Party is against Sanders.

The people in the Democratic Party are not all enamored with Sander's extremism. There's no plot here. People are not scheming to defeat Sanders. They are up front expressing their opinion of him. And some support him.

There's no evidence anyone paid anyone off to drop out and endorse Biden.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Here's hoping that Warren makes the strong comeback that her recent second place polling suggests that she should.

This is where I'm at as well.

Biden has been bumbling his speeches and comments even more lately.

JoeMorgue · 3rd March 2020, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Isn't it time to do away with conventions?

I'm not sure what should replace them, but they are seriously 19th century.

//Apropos of nothing//

They are just creepy. Yes it's a base emotional, not logical response but it's the same vibe I get off of big revival churches and school pep rallys.

SuburbanTurkey · 3rd March 2020, 01:38 PM

About to "pokemon go to the polls" for authoritarian communist Bernard Sanders.

dudalb · 3rd March 2020, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So? You think that's relevant somehow?

What's clear is the tendency in general toward paranoia that the Democratic Party is against Sanders.

The people in the Democratic Party are not all enamored with Sander's extremism. There's no plot here. People are not scheming to defeat Sanders. They are up front expressing their opinion of him. And some support him.

There's no evidence anyone paid anyone off to drop out and endorse Biden.

I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made.
I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode.

Childlike Empress · 3rd March 2020, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made.
I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode.

Why do you hate America?

Sideroxylon · 3rd March 2020, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made.
I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode.

Convinced despite the evidence.

Sideroxylon · 3rd March 2020, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

About to "pokemon go to the polls" for authoritarian communist Bernard Sanders.

Gotta vote for free stuff, Komrade.

JoeMorgue · 3rd March 2020, 02:07 PM

It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

What are even the options?

a) four more years in the wildnerness

b) a brokered candidate that underperforms the polling models

c) ?

The options are limited only by your imagination. It doesn't have to be multiple choice, you know.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Honestly? In that case then the "parties" as entities have failed and they just don't get to nominate anyone. If they can't agree on a candidate what are they even wasting our time with? At that point it would be a dog and pony show without the dogs and ponies.

In an ideal world the Democrats just don't put up a candidate. Sanders and Biden both run as independents or they don't run at all.

Now I'm realistic and that's absolute political suicide so... no we shouldn't actually do that here in the real world in which we are currently exist.

But I think "parties" as a base concept are stupid so I have adjust where I start argument from and when to have it.

In my ideal world this wouldn't happen because the American people would just vote for who they think is the best candidate without waiting for a political party to ordain them.

But in my ideal world we wouldn't have the EC and first past the post voting that make not playing the game political suicide and worse then useless but outright counter productive so... ya know.

I don't think not having such a candidate legitimately qualifies as a failure. A collection of great candidates that evenly split votes could occasion such a result, and that strikes me as a position worthy of envy for a party. And it would be absolutely absurd for that party to not run one of those great candidates.

I don't think you've really thought this all the way through.

Meadmaker · 3rd March 2020, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.

carlitos · 3rd March 2020, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%.

Time to start calling him the comeback codger?

Yeah, I got that update from Britt Hume's twitter, along with advice on sexy vinyl fetish fashion for women.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

I haven't noticed that, but I'm not challenging or doubting you. I honestly don't see how you can really blame him, though, with all the talk about preventive measures to keep him away from the nomination. Do you honestly think it's wrong for him to express his opinion on these issues? They are taking measure to try and stop him! Do you really also demand he simply shut his mouth and take it?

"They"

A lot of Democrats support Sanders, a lot of them feel he's an Independent running in the Democratic Party Primary and should be running as an Independent. And some of us simply feel he's going to lose to Trump and that's a risk we don't want to take.

Biden is only a little less risky, but he is less risky.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

But you're ignoring the fact that: They can just coast through Super Tuesday without spending another dime, wait to see how they do then (possibly a miracle? Why not wait 24 hours for free for that possibility?) and then announce Wednesday if they don't receive any good news.

Everything to gain with literally nothing to lose....and yet they toss it all, without even waiting to see tomorrow's results.

Makes no sense--unless they're trying to block Bernie.

Are you upset two candidates made a decision you wish they hadn't made? What do you mean they could have waited?

I don't suppose you know how that sounds: how dare they support Biden over Sanders. That's not how it works.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

"They"

A lot of Democrats support Sanders, a lot of them feel he's an Independent running in the Democratic Party Primary and should be running as an Independent. And some of us simply feel he's going to lose to Trump and that's a risk we don't want to take.

Biden is only a little less risky, but he is less risky.

.....none of which contradicts anything I said.

But thank you for your submission.

Cabbage · 3rd March 2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Are you upset two candidates made a decision you wish they hadn't made? What do you mean they could have waited?

I don't suppose you know how that sounds: how dare they support Biden over Sanders. That's not how it works.

I was not expressing any judgment of their actions in that post (at least not with respect to Sanders); any judgment you infer is all in your head. With that sort of bias you have, I'm not particularly concerned with how what I say sounds to you.

Oh, and regarding "What do you mean they could have waited?"

1. Buy a dictionary.

2. Look up the definition of the word "wait".

3. There's your answer! You're Welcome!

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

What? He stayed in because it was a 2 person race. Once there was no longer a way for him to win, he dropped out and campaigned for her at like 40 events.

Your comparison is ridiculous

From my point of view, Sanders is angry and has been angry since he was a young man. He resents what he sees as the establishment yet he's willing to use the Democratic Party despite constantly complaining about them.

He hated Clinton and made little effort to hide that fact. He acted with sour grapes and only reluctantly supported Clinton after conceding to her.

Obviously others see it differently, but that's how I see it.

Bob001 · 3rd March 2020, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Gotta vote for free stuff, Komrade.

Not free stuff. Health care and higher education for all paid for by our taxes, just as it is in most other advanced countries, and the same way we pay for a $750 billion military budget.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

It's like the Oscars.

"You don't deserve Best Picture this year, but we're giving it to you anyway because you deserved it last year and we gave it to someone who didn't deserve it because we shafted them the year before when they did deserve it."

I can't say how the Oscar votes go but the idea we're all just voting for such a trivial reason is naive.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Because it's done by blocking Bernie. I don't see why that is so hard to understand. The Democratic Party might have the best of intentions in blocking Bernie, but they are still blocking Bernie. It sure seems funny to me that for such a divisive candidate who is doomed to lose to Trump, it's taking the combined weight of "60 plus %" of the party to keep him from even being given the chance.

You know how paranoid it sounds when people believe no one is voting for Biden, they are all only voting against Sanders?

Not saying that isn't true for some or isn't partially true for some. I'm not sure voting for the lesser of two evils counts as only voting against Sanders.

I'll be voting against Trump. That's my priority. If there was a better candidate than Biden, I'd be voting against him too. I'm still holding out some hope Warren can gain some traction.

Tsukasa Buddha · 3rd March 2020, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So? You think that's relevant somehow?

Yes.

Quote:

What's clear is the tendency in general toward paranoia that the Democratic Party is against Sanders.

The people in the Democratic Party are not all enamored with Sander's extremism. There's no plot here. People are not scheming to defeat Sanders. They are up front expressing their opinion of him. And some support him.

There's no evidence anyone paid anyone off to drop out and endorse Biden.

I have no idea what you are going on about.

Trebuchet · 3rd March 2020, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Yeah, I got that update from Britt Hume's twitter, along with advice on sexy vinyl fetish fashion for women.

Thank you for the best moment I've had all week, as well as explaining why Ken White is calling himself SexyVixenHat!

Beelzebuddy · 3rd March 2020, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You know how paranoid it sounds when people believe no one is voting for Biden, they are all only voting against Sanders?

You know how condescending it sounds when people presume to tell you what you believe?

3rd March 2020, 11:02 AM	#3281
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 18,358	For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%. Time to start calling him the comeback codger?
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. Last edited by Brainster; 3rd March 2020 at 11:05 AM.

3rd March 2020, 11:06 AM	#3282
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,751	Originally Posted by Brainster For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%. Time to start calling him the comeback codger? I hope not, Biden is a ******* dumb ass.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

3rd March 2020, 11:08 AM	#3283
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,723	Originally Posted by Brainster For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%. Time to start calling him the comeback codger? Biden's on fire! Just like the time he was personally present when that monk self-immolated to protest in Vietnam.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

3rd March 2020, 11:12 AM	#3284
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,465	Originally Posted by plague311 I hope not, Biden is a ******* dumb ass. Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

3rd March 2020, 11:16 AM	#3285
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,723	Originally Posted by varwoche Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain. I don't often suggest this, but Biden should do cocaine. Like, a lot of it. I think it would really boost his performance, his appeal, and his personality. Just coke him up 80s style and he'll triple his chances. Or if he loses anyway at least he'll have had fun and found a new hobby, so it's a definite win-win. And it's not like he needs to worry about long-term health effects, he's 97 so just go for it!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

3rd March 2020, 11:17 AM	#3286
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,751	Originally Posted by varwoche Maybe there are pills that will make him semi-cogent for brief periods, long enough to get through a debate. If so, clearly he is choosing to abstain. Truer words have not been spoken. The man is a constant barrage of gaffes and stupid statements.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

3rd March 2020, 11:23 AM	#3287
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 8,751	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I don't often suggest this, but Biden should do cocaine. Like, a lot of it. I think it would really boost his performance, his appeal, and his personality. Just coke him up 80s style and he'll triple his chances. Or if he loses anyway at least he'll have had fun and found a new hobby, so it's a definite win-win. And it's not like he needs to worry about long-term health effects, he's 97 so just go for it! Hunter has probably already tried to get him to partake...
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

3rd March 2020, 12:03 PM	#3288
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Actually a lot to lose... Maybe they are actually honorable democrats who actually see the danger in having Trump in power, and want to resign because, even if they could stick around and hope for a miracle (without it costing anything, they recognize that its more valuable to the country to have the democrats coalesce around a front runner early on. Sure, if you assume like you apparently do that Biden has a better chance at beating Trump than Bernie. I do not agree, and feel rather strongly about that. So I take exception to your grandstanding use of the word "honorable", as if to support Bernie is the dishonorable thing to do. Quote: Compare that to Bernie in the 2016 primaries, where he dragged things out almost to the bitter end, leading to deep divisions that probably affected the Democrat's ability to take on Trump. Hillary was a flawed candidate to begin with. I still think Bernie would have won where Hillary did not. Compare that to now, where it looks like to me the Democratic party is making the same goddamn mistake again.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 12:04 PM	#3289
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Uhhh... no. He may end up being the Democratic nominee. He will need all possible resources to battle Trump. Pissing off a good chunk of those resources is not the way to go. Yeah, it's OK only if you piss off the good chunk that supports Bernie.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 12:07 PM	#3290
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Distracted1 It does seem to only be the Sanders supporters that don't see these drop-outs as being an effort to defeat Trump on behalf of the 60 plus % of the Party that clearly thinks Sanders is unlikely to be able to deliver that. They can't see it as an effort to get the best candidate who has a realistic chance out front, but seemingly only as an effort to "block Bernie". I'm not going to keep my mouth shut when I think a huge mistake is being made. You're last sentence is oh so condescending.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 12:08 PM	#3291
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Segnosaur The eventual winner should ideally have a majority of the voters and delegates hind them before the convention (not just a plurality). What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 12:08 PM	#3292
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 19,082	To quote from the article I've posted in the caucuses thread: Originally Posted by Caitlin Johnstone The only problem? Biden’s brain is turning into sauerkraut. Can you imagine Biden-Trump debates? It won't be pretty.
	__________________ If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg

3rd March 2020, 12:17 PM	#3293
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,096	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Can you imagine Biden-Trump debates? It won't be pretty. It'll be fine. Neither one of them have moved on from Obama.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 8,096

3rd March 2020, 12:53 PM	#3294
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,556	Originally Posted by Cabbage What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question. What are even the options? a) four more years in the wildnerness b) a brokered candidate that underperforms the polling models c) ?

3rd March 2020, 01:01 PM	#3295
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	Originally Posted by Cabbage What do you recommend if that candidate simply does not exist? Sincere question. Honestly? In that case then the "parties" as entities have failed and they just don't get to nominate anyone. If they can't agree on a candidate what are they even wasting our time with? At that point it would be a dog and pony show without the dogs and ponies. In an ideal world the Democrats just don't put up a candidate. Sanders and Biden both run as independents or they don't run at all. Now I'm realistic and that's absolute political suicide so... no we shouldn't actually do that here in the real world in which we are currently exist. But I think "parties" as a base concept are stupid so I have adjust where I start argument from and when to have it. In my ideal world this wouldn't happen because the American people would just vote for who they think is the best candidate without waiting for a political party to ordain them. But in my ideal world we wouldn't have the EC and first past the post voting that make not playing the game political suicide and worse then useless but outright counter productive so... ya know.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 3rd March 2020 at 01:03 PM.

3rd March 2020, 01:23 PM	#3296
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,476	Isn't it time to do away with conventions? I'm not sure what should replace them, but they are seriously 19th century.

3rd March 2020, 01:24 PM	#3297
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,778	Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha Steyer, Kamala, et al. didn't drop out right before a big election and immediately endorse someone. So? You think that's relevant somehow? Quote: I don't think it is unfair or anything, but it is pretty clear what they are doing with the recent drop-outs and endorsements. Though for Warren it probably does seem unfair. What's clear is the tendency in general toward paranoia that the Democratic Party is against Sanders. The people in the Democratic Party are not all enamored with Sander's extremism. There's no plot here. People are not scheming to defeat Sanders. They are up front expressing their opinion of him. And some support him. There's no evidence anyone paid anyone off to drop out and endorse Biden.

3rd March 2020, 01:26 PM	#3298
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,778	Originally Posted by Aridas Here's hoping that Warren makes the strong comeback that her recent second place polling suggests that she should. This is where I'm at as well. Biden has been bumbling his speeches and comments even more lately.

3rd March 2020, 01:34 PM	#3299
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Isn't it time to do away with conventions? I'm not sure what should replace them, but they are seriously 19th century. //Apropos of nothing// They are just creepy. Yes it's a base emotional, not logical response but it's the same vibe I get off of big revival churches and school pep rallys.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

3rd March 2020, 01:38 PM	#3300
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	About to "pokemon go to the polls" for authoritarian communist Bernard Sanders.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

3rd March 2020, 01:43 PM	#3301
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,493	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger So? You think that's relevant somehow? What's clear is the tendency in general toward paranoia that the Democratic Party is against Sanders. The people in the Democratic Party are not all enamored with Sander's extremism. There's no plot here. People are not scheming to defeat Sanders. They are up front expressing their opinion of him. And some support him. There's no evidence anyone paid anyone off to drop out and endorse Biden. I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made. I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd March 2020, 01:46 PM	#3302
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 19,082	Originally Posted by dudalb I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made. I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode. Why do you hate America?
	__________________ If they want the pandemic to end, they just have to stop testing. Then people will die of the flu again, like they did before - Wolfgang Wodarg

3rd March 2020, 02:03 PM	#3303
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,443	Originally Posted by dudalb I just voted for Biden, one of the most reluctant votes Ihave ever made. I made it because, despite all his supporters arguments to the contrary, none of which I find convincing, I am convinced Sanders would lose in November. I am in ANybody but Bernie mode. Convinced despite the evidence.

3rd March 2020, 02:04 PM	#3304
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,443	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey About to "pokemon go to the polls" for authoritarian communist Bernard Sanders. Gotta vote for free stuff, Komrade.

3rd March 2020, 02:07 PM	#3305
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

3rd March 2020, 02:36 PM	#3306
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by theprestige What are even the options? a) four more years in the wildnerness b) a brokered candidate that underperforms the polling models c) ? The options are limited only by your imagination. It doesn't have to be multiple choice, you know.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 02:39 PM	#3307
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Honestly? In that case then the "parties" as entities have failed and they just don't get to nominate anyone. If they can't agree on a candidate what are they even wasting our time with? At that point it would be a dog and pony show without the dogs and ponies. In an ideal world the Democrats just don't put up a candidate. Sanders and Biden both run as independents or they don't run at all. Now I'm realistic and that's absolute political suicide so... no we shouldn't actually do that here in the real world in which we are currently exist. But I think "parties" as a base concept are stupid so I have adjust where I start argument from and when to have it. In my ideal world this wouldn't happen because the American people would just vote for who they think is the best candidate without waiting for a political party to ordain them. But in my ideal world we wouldn't have the EC and first past the post voting that make not playing the game political suicide and worse then useless but outright counter productive so... ya know. I don't think not having such a candidate legitimately qualifies as a failure. A collection of great candidates that evenly split votes could occasion such a result, and that strikes me as a position worthy of envy for a party. And it would be absolutely absurd for that party to not run one of those great candidates. I don't think you've really thought this all the way through.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 02:40 PM	#3308
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,476	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.

3rd March 2020, 02:46 PM	#3309
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,856	Originally Posted by Brainster For the first time in awhile, Biden is now the favorite at both the London bookies and FiveThirtyEight. At the latter site, the odds still favor a contested convention (61% chance), but Biden is now up to 31% and Bernie down to 8%. Time to start calling him the comeback codger? Yeah, I got that update from Britt Hume's twitter, along with advice on sexy vinyl fetish fashion for women.

3rd March 2020, 02:49 PM	#3310
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,778	Originally Posted by Cabbage I haven't noticed that, but I'm not challenging or doubting you. I honestly don't see how you can really blame him, though, with all the talk about preventive measures to keep him away from the nomination. Do you honestly think it's wrong for him to express his opinion on these issues? They are taking measure to try and stop him! Do you really also demand he simply shut his mouth and take it? "They" A lot of Democrats support Sanders, a lot of them feel he's an Independent running in the Democratic Party Primary and should be running as an Independent. And some of us simply feel he's going to lose to Trump and that's a risk we don't want to take. Biden is only a little less risky, but he is less risky.

3rd March 2020, 02:51 PM	#3311
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,778	Originally Posted by Cabbage But you're ignoring the fact that: They can just coast through Super Tuesday without spending another dime, wait to see how they do then (possibly a miracle? Why not wait 24 hours for free for that possibility?) and then announce Wednesday if they don't receive any good news. Everything to gain with literally nothing to lose....and yet they toss it all, without even waiting to see tomorrow's results. Makes no sense--unless they're trying to block Bernie. Are you upset two candidates made a decision you wish they hadn't made? What do you mean they could have waited? I don't suppose you know how that sounds: how dare they support Biden over Sanders. That's not how it works.

3rd March 2020, 02:53 PM	#3312
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger "They" A lot of Democrats support Sanders, a lot of them feel he's an Independent running in the Democratic Party Primary and should be running as an Independent. And some of us simply feel he's going to lose to Trump and that's a risk we don't want to take. Biden is only a little less risky, but he is less risky. .....none of which contradicts anything I said. But thank you for your submission.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

3rd March 2020, 02:55 PM	#3313
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Are you upset two candidates made a decision you wish they hadn't made? What do you mean they could have waited? I don't suppose you know how that sounds: how dare they support Biden over Sanders. That's not how it works. I was not expressing any judgment of their actions in that post (at least not with respect to Sanders); any judgment you infer is all in your head. With that sort of bias you have, I'm not particularly concerned with how what I say sounds to you. Oh, and regarding "What do you mean they could have waited?" 1. Buy a dictionary. 2. Look up the definition of the word "wait". 3. There's your answer! You're Welcome!
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Last edited by Cabbage; 3rd March 2020 at 02:57 PM.

3rd March 2020, 02:58 PM	#3314
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,778	Originally Posted by The_Animus What? He stayed in because it was a 2 person race. Once there was no longer a way for him to win, he dropped out and campaigned for her at like 40 events. Your comparison is ridiculous From my point of view, Sanders is angry and has been angry since he was a young man. He resents what he sees as the establishment yet he's willing to use the Democratic Party despite constantly complaining about them. He hated Clinton and made little effort to hide that fact. He acted with sour grapes and only reluctantly supported Clinton after conceding to her. Obviously others see it differently, but that's how I see it.

3rd March 2020, 03:01 PM	#3315
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,961	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Gotta vote for free stuff, Komrade. Not free stuff. Health care and higher education for all paid for by our taxes, just as it is in most other advanced countries, and the same way we pay for a $750 billion military budget.