2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker Part III - Page 85

Meadmaker · 3rd March 2020, 09:29 PM

It looks like a two person race to me.

But I have to vote next week. Now what?

I suppose Biden.

On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected.

Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal.

Aridas · 3rd March 2020, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

I know she said she would, but she's going to have to drop out, probably tomorrow or the next day. I think she's sticking it out today just in case she wins Massachusetts and picks up some delegates, but she will still drop out even if that happens.

We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way.

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol

https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21

...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.

Sideroxylon · 3rd March 2020, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

..If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.

Doing the Lord’s work.

dudalb · 3rd March 2020, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

It is extremely perplexing to me that my county in Texas, a Democrat stronghold, voted heavily for Bloomberg; I expected Sanders to walk away with an easy win here. The results aren't totally in yet but it's 30% Bloomberg, 25% Sanders and 20% Biden. It's rather surprising to me . . .

I live in Califorina, and Bloomberg has spent a hell of a lot of money here. My mailbox haa gotten Bllomburg full color brochures almost every day. I suspect he has done the same in Texas.

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

You know how condescending it sounds when people presume to tell you what you believe?

Skeptic Ginger · 3rd March 2020, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Elagabalus

Some of us feel that none of the them can beat Trump.

The options are all less than ideal.

The Atheist · 3rd March 2020, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal.

Wait for it...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/p...day/index.html

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

The options are all less than ideal.

Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite.

The Don · 4th March 2020, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite.

Right now I have no idea as to which of them will be more electable in November (once the negative ads, FOXNews and President Trump's Twitter cloud have done their work), but an excellent option for a fair America isn't much good if he's not elected.

Tony Blair has (rightfully IMO) been criticised for his role in the Iraq war and this has ruined any legacy he and Gordon Brown may have had but he was elected as Tory Lite and then his governments went on to plough all kinds of money into public services and welfare, lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, protect workers' and environmental protections and so on. It was almost like a Trojan Horse.

If Biden is selected as the candidate, and if he is elected (I still think that President Trump is favourite against either candidate), then as a Republican Lite he may be able to get more done than a left wing president. Then again, partisanship in the US may be so complete that it doesn't matter, the GOP will simply block any and all legislation.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.

Well, it worked for the other guy.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHR...05fW/giphy.gif

Seems like it wasn't, right?

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol

https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21

Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny.

DevilsAdvocate · 4th March 2020, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

It looks like a two person race to me.

But I have to vote next week. Now what?

I suppose Biden.

On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected./QUOTE]

Tough call. I think we have similar pragmatic centrist political stances. I like Warren. She is very smart and experienced and capable, which is what I want in a president. But she doesn't really have a shot. She has sort of been cheated out of a shot by a division to the further left and right. But that's the way it goes sometimes.

I like Biden, but he causes me concern in electability. Joe's a good guy, but his best days are behind him. He is sometimes weird in his touchy-feely approach to people. He is prone to gaffes. For the past few years he sometimes seems a bit out of it. He is old and often acts old. He seems like an old boxer who is out of shape who is called up out of retirement just so his manager can make some money from the spectacle. I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election.

Sanders is doing well in the swing states. Biden is a bit ahead in the polls for the nomination, and versus Trump, and favorability. But only by a tiny bit. Maybe 1 point. They are basically equal. And favorability polls in the swing states indicate that they know about the candidates (only about 4% compared to about 25% for Warren and over 40% for others). So they know Sanders identifies as a Democratic Socialist. So no expectation of big changes on that front.

I am concerned about Sanders in Florida. Big swing state. Biden is polling better there. Not by much, but better. And the election comes down to Pennsylvania and Florida.

My feeling is that I would prefer Sanders. He is not the candidate I would prefer. But I think he has the best chance to win. The candidate has to flip some states. Anti-Trump votes will be the same for any candidate. Sanders will lose some votes for being a self-described Socialist and his very left agenda. But he will also pick up some votes for those same things.

I have more confidence that Sanders won't blow it and that he has the potential to flip states with voter turnout, especially the youth vote, which will be significantly larger this year than in past years.

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny.

Not old people. Boomers.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2020, 05:09 AM

All eyes on Warren now.

Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him.

Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Not old people. Boomers.

What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.

Meadmaker · 4th March 2020, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election.

That's my big concern with Biden as well. You just don't know what might come out of his mouth one day.

On the other hand, Bernie can be pretty outrageous as well. Witness the Castro flap.

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.

All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely.

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

All eyes on Warren now.

Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him.

Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie.

Split the progressive vote and take a VP ride with Biden.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely.

What do you imagine the "talking points" were in my post?

How about you treat other people's words as their own and address that rather than just dismissing them? It's the same thing you do when you use silly, childish labels like "boomer".

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

What do you imagine the "talking points" were in my post?

How about you treat other people's words as their own and address that rather than just dismissing them? It's the same thing you do when you use silly, childish labels like "boomer".

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2020, 05:47 AM

Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:

Quote:

I sat in on a 90 min interview with Biden in December and left with no clear understanding of what his policies are on most everything

https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Sideroxylon · 4th March 2020, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:

https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.

Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.

Distracted1 · 4th March 2020, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:

https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.

Truly, the specter of Sanders actually becoming the Democratic candidate for POTUS was the greatest gift that could have been given to Joe Biden. Look at the difference between the early voting and the day-of votes.
Although, personally, I was hoping that Liz Warren would have been the recipient of that circumstance.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2020, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way.

...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.

Chris is a notorious Twitter ****-poster, one of my favorite accounts to follow. It's a bit tricky as he is constantly getting banned and making new accounts.

He is probably best known for "MuellerDad69" where he claimed to be a Starbucks manager that discriminated against Christians and was firing any employee that said "Merry Christmas" at work, which was spread around enough to prompt a disavowal from Starbucks corporate. Absolute king.

So no, TonyBeast1957 didn't screw a van full of old people out of voting. Seems to have worked in pissing people off!

Highly recommend the podcast he co-hosts, "Eat the Rich"

The Don · 4th March 2020, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts.

A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines.

TragicMonkey · 4th March 2020, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.

Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?

varwoche · 4th March 2020, 07:08 AM

According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November.

I guess losing to Trump in 2016 wasn't a wake-up call.

SuburbanTurkey · 4th March 2020, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?

It's especially striking if you compare video from Biden during Obama's 2008 and 2012 campaigns. There has been a clear drop in lucidity.

Cabbage · 4th March 2020, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.

OK, Boomer.

Belz... · 4th March 2020, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

OK, Boomer.

Get off my lawn, youngster.

varwoche · 4th March 2020, 07:34 AM

538 now gives Biden a 30% chance of winning enough delegates to win the nomination, and Sanders an 8% chance.

The_Animus · 4th March 2020, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon

Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.

And a constant barrage from the media that he's electable.

That's what apparently constitutes a worthy POTUS these days. We are so screwed

The_Animus · 4th March 2020, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts.

A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines.

This is true regardless of Sanders or Biden. If we get the Senate then at least with Sanders there is a chance of moving forward with progressive policies that most Americans want or at least moving the needle off public opinion and consciousness of those policies. With Biden you get status quo regardless.

varwoche · 4th March 2020, 07:51 AM

Let's make a distinction between screwed and really screwed. We're really screwed if Trump names RBG's replacement. And maybe Breyer's.

theprestige · 4th March 2020, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

Nope. He's pointing out "Don't blame the minority for being blocked by the majority".

You're Welcome!

Slavery got abolished because the minority became the majority. Because one became two became four, and those four fought fought for what they believed in, and became nine. The abolitionists won converts to their cause. That's why their cause ultimately prevailed. What's Bernie been up to, his whole political career?

Distracted1 · 4th March 2020, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?

That is the Warren path to victory.

Leftus · 4th March 2020, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I live in Califorina, and Bloomberg has spent a hell of a lot of money here. My mailbox haa gotten Bllomburg full color brochures almost every day. I suspect he has done the same in Texas.

Not in my mailbox in Austin. But he has bought a metric ton of ads on YouTube.

JoeMorgue · 4th March 2020, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by varwoche

538 now gives Biden a 30% chance of winning enough delegates to win the nomination, and Sanders an 8% chance.

Yeah but "No Majority" still has solid lead and it doesn't matter because if Sanders doesn't win the nomination his supporter will just shift into "da estalbishment cheated" conspiracy mode without pausing for breath.

Sanders wins if he wins, and he wins if he loses because he's the rebal outsider working against ths sytem.

3rd March 2020, 09:48 PM	#3362
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,596	Originally Posted by Brainster I know she said she would, but she's going to have to drop out, probably tomorrow or the next day. I think she's sticking it out today just in case she wins Massachusetts and picks up some delegates, but she will still drop out even if that happens. We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way. Originally Posted by Sideroxylon told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21 ...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 3rd March 2020 at 09:49 PM.

3rd March 2020, 10:21 PM	#3364
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,581	Originally Posted by xjx388 It is extremely perplexing to me that my county in Texas, a Democrat stronghold, voted heavily for Bloomberg; I expected Sanders to walk away with an easy win here. The results aren't totally in yet but it's 30% Bloomberg, 25% Sanders and 20% Biden. It's rather surprising to me . . . I live in Califorina, and Bloomberg has spent a hell of a lot of money here. My mailbox haa gotten Bllomburg full color brochures almost every day. I suspect he has done the same in Texas.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

3rd March 2020, 11:40 PM	#3367
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,601	Originally Posted by Meadmaker Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal. Wait for it... https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/p...day/index.html
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

4th March 2020, 03:04 AM	#3370
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling. Well, it worked for the other guy.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2020, 03:09 AM	#3371
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHR...05fW/giphy.gif Seems like it wasn't, right? Originally Posted by Sideroxylon told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21 Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

3rd March 2020, 09:29 PM	#3361
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,538	It looks like a two person race to me. But I have to vote next week. Now what? I suppose Biden. On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected. Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal.

3rd March 2020, 09:54 PM	#3363
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by Aridas ..If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown. Doing the Lord’s work.

3rd March 2020, 11:24 PM	#3365
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,884	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy You know how condescending it sounds when people presume to tell you what you believe?

3rd March 2020, 11:26 PM	#3366
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,884	Originally Posted by Elagabalus Some of us feel that none of the them can beat Trump. The options are all less than ideal.

4th March 2020, 02:36 AM	#3368
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger The options are all less than ideal. Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite.

4th March 2020, 02:49 AM	#3369
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,617	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite. Right now I have no idea as to which of them will be more electable in November (once the negative ads, FOXNews and President Trump's Twitter cloud have done their work), but an excellent option for a fair America isn't much good if he's not elected. Tony Blair has (rightfully IMO) been criticised for his role in the Iraq war and this has ruined any legacy he and Gordon Brown may have had but he was elected as Tory Lite and then his governments went on to plough all kinds of money into public services and welfare, lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, protect workers' and environmental protections and so on. It was almost like a Trojan Horse. If Biden is selected as the candidate, and if he is elected (I still think that President Trump is favourite against either candidate), then as a Republican Lite he may be able to get more done than a left wing president. Then again, partisanship in the US may be so complete that it doesn't matter, the GOP will simply block any and all legislation.

4th March 2020, 03:17 AM	#3372
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,622	Originally Posted by Meadmaker It looks like a two person race to me. But I have to vote next week. Now what? I suppose Biden. On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected./QUOTE] Tough call. I think we have similar pragmatic centrist political stances. I like Warren. She is very smart and experienced and capable, which is what I want in a president. But she doesn't really have a shot. She has sort of been cheated out of a shot by a division to the further left and right. But that's the way it goes sometimes. I like Biden, but he causes me concern in electability. Joe's a good guy, but his best days are behind him. He is sometimes weird in his touchy-feely approach to people. He is prone to gaffes. For the past few years he sometimes seems a bit out of it. He is old and often acts old. He seems like an old boxer who is out of shape who is called up out of retirement just so his manager can make some money from the spectacle. I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election. Sanders is doing well in the swing states. Biden is a bit ahead in the polls for the nomination, and versus Trump, and favorability. But only by a tiny bit. Maybe 1 point. They are basically equal. And favorability polls in the swing states indicate that they know about the candidates (only about 4% compared to about 25% for Warren and over 40% for others). So they know Sanders identifies as a Democratic Socialist. So no expectation of big changes on that front. I am concerned about Sanders in Florida. Big swing state. Biden is polling better there. Not by much, but better. And the election comes down to Pennsylvania and Florida. My feeling is that I would prefer Sanders. He is not the candidate I would prefer. But I think he has the best chance to win. The candidate has to flip some states. Anti-Trump votes will be the same for any candidate. Sanders will lose some votes for being a self-described Socialist and his very left agenda. But he will also pick up some votes for those same things. I have more confidence that Sanders won't blow it and that he has the potential to flip states with voter turnout, especially the youth vote, which will be significantly larger this year than in past years.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley Last edited by DevilsAdvocate; 4th March 2020 at 03:19 AM.

4th March 2020, 03:18 AM	#3373
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by Belz... Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny. Not old people. Boomers.

4th March 2020, 05:09 AM	#3374
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,540	All eyes on Warren now. Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him. Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 4th March 2020 at 05:20 AM.

4th March 2020, 05:27 AM	#3375
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Not old people. Boomers. What the hell is wrong with you? First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists. Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s? "Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2020, 05:28 AM	#3376
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,538	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election. That's my big concern with Biden as well. You just don't know what might come out of his mouth one day. On the other hand, Bernie can be pretty outrageous as well. Witness the Castro flap.

4th March 2020, 05:39 AM	#3377
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by Belz... What the hell is wrong with you? First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists. Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s? "Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman. All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely.

4th March 2020, 05:41 AM	#3378
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey All eyes on Warren now. Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him. Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie. Split the progressive vote and take a VP ride with Biden.

4th March 2020, 05:43 AM	#3379
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely. What do you imagine the "talking points" were in my post? How about you treat other people's words as their own and address that rather than just dismissing them? It's the same thing you do when you use silly, childish labels like "boomer".
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2020, 05:47 AM	#3381
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,540	Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie? Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets: Quote: I sat in on a 90 min interview with Biden in December and left with no clear understanding of what his policies are on most everything https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696 Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 4th March 2020 at 05:49 AM.

4th March 2020, 05:59 AM	#3383
Sideroxylon Featherless biped Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Aporia Posts: 24,469	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie? Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets: https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696 Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine. Not Trump. Obama’s mate. A nice guy.

4th March 2020, 06:13 AM	#3384
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie? Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets: https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696 Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine. Truly, the specter of Sanders actually becoming the Democratic candidate for POTUS was the greatest gift that could have been given to Joe Biden. Look at the difference between the early voting and the day-of votes. Although, personally, I was hoping that Liz Warren would have been the recipient of that circumstance.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

4th March 2020, 06:13 AM	#3385
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,540	Originally Posted by Aridas We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way. ...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown. Chris is a notorious Twitter ****-poster, one of my favorite accounts to follow. It's a bit tricky as he is constantly getting banned and making new accounts. He is probably best known for "MuellerDad69" where he claimed to be a Starbucks manager that discriminated against Christians and was firing any employee that said "Merry Christmas" at work, which was spread around enough to prompt a disavowal from Starbucks corporate. Absolute king. So no, TonyBeast1957 didn't screw a van full of old people out of voting. Seems to have worked in pissing people off! Highly recommend the podcast he co-hosts, "Eat the Rich"
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 4th March 2020 at 06:15 AM.

4th March 2020, 06:37 AM	#3386
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,617	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie? Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts. A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines.

4th March 2020, 06:45 AM	#3387
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,744	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Not Trump. Obama’s mate. A nice guy. Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me. Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

4th March 2020, 07:08 AM	#3388
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,466	According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

4th March 2020, 07:11 AM	#3389
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by varwoche According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November. I guess losing to Trump in 2016 wasn't a wake-up call.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2020, 07:27 AM	#3390
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,540	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me. Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool? It's especially striking if you compare video from Biden during Obama's 2008 and 2012 campaigns. There has been a clear drop in lucidity.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th March 2020, 07:33 AM	#3391
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598	Originally Posted by Belz... What the hell is wrong with you? First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists. Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s? "Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman. OK, Boomer.
Cabbage Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,598

4th March 2020, 07:34 AM	#3392
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,177	Originally Posted by Cabbage OK, Boomer. Get off my lawn, youngster.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

4th March 2020, 07:34 AM	#3393
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,466	538 now gives Biden a 30% chance of winning enough delegates to win the nomination, and Sanders an 8% chance.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

4th March 2020, 07:44 AM	#3394
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,258	Originally Posted by Sideroxylon Not Trump. Obama’s mate. A nice guy. And a constant barrage from the media that he's electable. That's what apparently constitutes a worthy POTUS these days. We are so screwed
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,258	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

4th March 2020, 07:48 AM	#3395
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,258	Originally Posted by The Don Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts. A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines. This is true regardless of Sanders or Biden. If we get the Senate then at least with Sanders there is a chance of moving forward with progressive policies that most Americans want or at least moving the needle off public opinion and consciousness of those policies. With Biden you get status quo regardless.
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,258	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

4th March 2020, 07:51 AM	#3396
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,466	Let's make a distinction between screwed and really screwed. We're really screwed if Trump names RBG's replacement. And maybe Breyer's.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

4th March 2020, 08:00 AM	#3397
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,630	Originally Posted by Cabbage Nope. He's pointing out "Don't blame the minority for being blocked by the majority". You're Welcome! Slavery got abolished because the minority became the majority. Because one became two became four, and those four fought fought for what they believed in, and became nine. The abolitionists won converts to their cause. That's why their cause ultimately prevailed. What's Bernie been up to, his whole political career?