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Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

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Old 3rd March 2020, 09:29 PM   #3361
Meadmaker
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It looks like a two person race to me.

But I have to vote next week. Now what?

I suppose Biden.

On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected.



Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 09:48 PM   #3362
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I know she said she would, but she's going to have to drop out, probably tomorrow or the next day. I think she's sticking it out today just in case she wins Massachusetts and picks up some delegates, but she will still drop out even if that happens.
We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way.

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol
https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21
...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 09:54 PM   #3363
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
..If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.
Doing the Lord’s work.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 10:21 PM   #3364
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It is extremely perplexing to me that my county in Texas, a Democrat stronghold, voted heavily for Bloomberg; I expected Sanders to walk away with an easy win here. The results aren't totally in yet but it's 30% Bloomberg, 25% Sanders and 20% Biden. It's rather surprising to me . . .
I live in Califorina, and Bloomberg has spent a hell of a lot of money here. My mailbox haa gotten Bllomburg full color brochures almost every day. I suspect he has done the same in Texas.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 11:24 PM   #3365
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
You know how condescending it sounds when people presume to tell you what you believe?
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Old 3rd March 2020, 11:26 PM   #3366
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Some of us feel that none of the them can beat Trump.
The options are all less than ideal.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 11:40 PM   #3367
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Bloomberg is in for now, but a headline read that he is considering dropping out after tonight's results. In all my years, I can never remember seeing a similar headline that wasn't followed by an announcement of a withdrawal.
Wait for it...

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/04/p...day/index.html
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Old 4th March 2020, 02:36 AM   #3368
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The options are all less than ideal.
Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite.
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Old 4th March 2020, 02:49 AM   #3369
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Bernie Sanders is an excellent option for a fair America. Biden is a Republican lite.
Right now I have no idea as to which of them will be more electable in November (once the negative ads, FOXNews and President Trump's Twitter cloud have done their work), but an excellent option for a fair America isn't much good if he's not elected.

Tony Blair has (rightfully IMO) been criticised for his role in the Iraq war and this has ruined any legacy he and Gordon Brown may have had but he was elected as Tory Lite and then his governments went on to plough all kinds of money into public services and welfare, lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty, protect workers' and environmental protections and so on. It was almost like a Trojan Horse.

If Biden is selected as the candidate, and if he is elected (I still think that President Trump is favourite against either candidate), then as a Republican Lite he may be able to get more done than a left wing president. Then again, partisanship in the US may be so complete that it doesn't matter, the GOP will simply block any and all legislation.
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Old 4th March 2020, 03:04 AM   #3370
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's good to know that the core mentality of both of the 2020 candidate's bases is going to be trolling.
Well, it worked for the other guy.
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Old 4th March 2020, 03:09 AM   #3371
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Seems like it wasn't, right?

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
told the seniors at the nursing home i work at that the van is broken down and i can’t take them to the polling place. that’s 60 less votes for biden lol
https://twitter.com/tonybeast1957/st...024121877?s=21
Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny.
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Old 4th March 2020, 03:17 AM   #3372
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
It looks like a two person race to me.

But I have to vote next week. Now what?

I suppose Biden.
On a purely personal level, I like Warren the best, but she is very far left. Still, I think she's the smartest one of the bunch, and that ought to count for something. If I could be absolutely certain that the Senate would stay Republican, I could vote for her with a clear conscience. That way, none of her extreme ideas could pass, but we would still have a president I respected./QUOTE]

Tough call. I think we have similar pragmatic centrist political stances. I like Warren. She is very smart and experienced and capable, which is what I want in a president. But she doesn't really have a shot. She has sort of been cheated out of a shot by a division to the further left and right. But that's the way it goes sometimes.

I like Biden, but he causes me concern in electability. Joe's a good guy, but his best days are behind him. He is sometimes weird in his touchy-feely approach to people. He is prone to gaffes. For the past few years he sometimes seems a bit out of it. He is old and often acts old. He seems like an old boxer who is out of shape who is called up out of retirement just so his manager can make some money from the spectacle. I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election.

Sanders is doing well in the swing states. Biden is a bit ahead in the polls for the nomination, and versus Trump, and favorability. But only by a tiny bit. Maybe 1 point. They are basically equal. And favorability polls in the swing states indicate that they know about the candidates (only about 4% compared to about 25% for Warren and over 40% for others). So they know Sanders identifies as a Democratic Socialist. So no expectation of big changes on that front.

I am concerned about Sanders in Florida. Big swing state. Biden is polling better there. Not by much, but better. And the election comes down to Pennsylvania and Florida.

My feeling is that I would prefer Sanders. He is not the candidate I would prefer. But I think he has the best chance to win. The candidate has to flip some states. Anti-Trump votes will be the same for any candidate. Sanders will lose some votes for being a self-described Socialist and his very left agenda. But he will also pick up some votes for those same things.

I have more confidence that Sanders won't blow it and that he has the potential to flip states with voter turnout, especially the youth vote, which will be significantly larger this year than in past years.
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Old 4th March 2020, 03:18 AM   #3373
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Ha ha! Old people don't deserve respect! Funny.
Not old people. Boomers.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:09 AM   #3374
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All eyes on Warren now.

Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him.

Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:27 AM   #3375
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Not old people. Boomers.
What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:28 AM   #3376
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I am afraid he won't be able to keep up and will do something to completely blow it between now and the election.
That's my big concern with Biden as well. You just don't know what might come out of his mouth one day.


On the other hand, Bernie can be pretty outrageous as well. Witness the Castro flap.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:39 AM   #3377
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.
All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:41 AM   #3378
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
All eyes on Warren now.

Biden had a big win last night, helped tremendously by his closest centrist rivals dropping out and endorsing him.

Warren had a pretty dismal result last night. 3rd place in her home state (happy to do my part in this effort). At this point, it's clear that it's a two candidate race, Biden vs Bernie. If Warren wants a progressive to win it, she should drop out and endorse Bernie. A continued run could only be explained as vanity or as an effort to split the progressive vote and undercut Bernie.
Split the progressive vote and take a VP ride with Biden.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:43 AM   #3379
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
All the talking points that get trotted out on this and miss the mark entirely.
What do you imagine the "talking points" were in my post?

How about you treat other people's words as their own and address that rather than just dismissing them? It's the same thing you do when you use silly, childish labels like "boomer".
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:46 AM   #3380
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What do you imagine the "talking points" were in my post?

How about you treat other people's words as their own and address that rather than just dismissing them? It's the same thing you do when you use silly, childish labels like "boomer".
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 5th March 2020 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:47 AM   #3381
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Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:

Quote:
I sat in on a 90 min interview with Biden in December and left with no clear understanding of what his policies are on most everything
https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:48 AM   #3382
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 4th March 2020, 05:59 AM   #3383
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:



https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.
Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.
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Old 4th March 2020, 06:13 AM   #3384
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?

Charlie Warzel, NYT opinion writer, tweets:



https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1235033544440733696

Can't help but have a tremendous sense of dread as the party gets ready to launch Hillary 2.0 into the Trump machine.
Truly, the specter of Sanders actually becoming the Democratic candidate for POTUS was the greatest gift that could have been given to Joe Biden. Look at the difference between the early voting and the day-of votes.
Although, personally, I was hoping that Liz Warren would have been the recipient of that circumstance.
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Old 4th March 2020, 06:13 AM   #3385
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
We'll see. Doing very, very badly would constitute a change, regardless. At the moment, it looks like she's only really picked up delegates in Massachusetts, Maine, and Minnesota, either way.



...If whoever posted that is serious and actually did that, they quite deserve a beatdown.
Chris is a notorious Twitter ****-poster, one of my favorite accounts to follow. It's a bit tricky as he is constantly getting banned and making new accounts.

He is probably best known for "MuellerDad69" where he claimed to be a Starbucks manager that discriminated against Christians and was firing any employee that said "Merry Christmas" at work, which was spread around enough to prompt a disavowal from Starbucks corporate. Absolute king.

So no, TonyBeast1957 didn't screw a van full of old people out of voting. Seems to have worked in pissing people off!

Highly recommend the podcast he co-hosts, "Eat the Rich"
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Old 4th March 2020, 06:37 AM   #3386
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Biden is an empty box that centrist dems can pour all their hopes and dreams into. What exactly are the issues he is running on other than not being Bernie?
Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts.

A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines.
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Old 4th March 2020, 06:45 AM   #3387
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.
Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:08 AM   #3388
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According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:11 AM   #3389
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
According to early analysis, the youth vote failed to turn out in the numbers Bernie needed / expected. So much for the revolution. Better now than November.
I guess losing to Trump in 2016 wasn't a wake-up call.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:27 AM   #3390
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?
It's especially striking if you compare video from Biden during Obama's 2008 and 2012 campaigns. There has been a clear drop in lucidity.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:33 AM   #3391
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?

First of all, baby boomers were born after WWII so they're in their late 60s and 70s now. That's old. You're trying to make a distinction where none exists.

Second, what's wrong with that generation, exactly? Is it because they're not quite as progressive as you are? Who do you think pushed for social change in the 60s and 70s?

"Boomer" has become a boogeyman of the left nowadays. A Boomerman.


OK, Boomer.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:34 AM   #3392
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
OK, Boomer.
Get off my lawn, youngster.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:34 AM   #3393
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538 now gives Biden a 30% chance of winning enough delegates to win the nomination, and Sanders an 8% chance.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:44 AM   #3394
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Not Trump.
Obama’s mate.
A nice guy.
And a constant barrage from the media that he's electable.

That's what apparently constitutes a worthy POTUS these days. We are so screwed
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:48 AM   #3395
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Do his policies matter if the GOP is going to ensure that none of them see the light of day ? Even if the Democratic Party manage to get control of the Senate - and IMO that's quite unlikely - then all attempts to legislate will be paralysed by the courts.

A red state will ensure that a local court rules it illegal and if it's overturned and eventually goes to SCOTUS, they'll rule on partisan lines.
This is true regardless of Sanders or Biden. If we get the Senate then at least with Sanders there is a chance of moving forward with progressive policies that most Americans want or at least moving the needle off public opinion and consciousness of those policies. With Biden you get status quo regardless.
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Old 4th March 2020, 07:51 AM   #3396
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Let's make a distinction between screwed and really screwed. We're really screwed if Trump names RBG's replacement. And maybe Breyer's.
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Old 4th March 2020, 08:00 AM   #3397
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Nope. He's pointing out "Don't blame the minority for being blocked by the majority".

You're Welcome!
Slavery got abolished because the minority became the majority. Because one became two became four, and those four fought fought for what they believed in, and became nine. The abolitionists won converts to their cause. That's why their cause ultimately prevailed. What's Bernie been up to, his whole political career?
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Old 4th March 2020, 08:00 AM   #3398
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Have you seen any video clips of his bizarre speaking? He rambles into nonsense, with increasing frequency. While I fully agree with the premise of the "Trump is crazy" thread I don't think Biden's much better. He seems senile to me.

Is this what it's coming to, the world's superpower's choice for leadership is between a mad old idiot and a senile old fool?
That is the Warren path to victory.
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Old 4th March 2020, 08:01 AM   #3399
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I live in Califorina, and Bloomberg has spent a hell of a lot of money here. My mailbox haa gotten Bllomburg full color brochures almost every day. I suspect he has done the same in Texas.
Not in my mailbox in Austin. But he has bought a metric ton of ads on YouTube.
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Old 4th March 2020, 08:08 AM   #3400
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
538 now gives Biden a 30% chance of winning enough delegates to win the nomination, and Sanders an 8% chance.
Yeah but "No Majority" still has solid lead and it doesn't matter because if Sanders doesn't win the nomination his supporter will just shift into "da estalbishment cheated" conspiracy mode without pausing for breath.

Sanders wins if he wins, and he wins if he loses because he's the rebal outsider working against ths sytem.
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