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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 20th March 2019, 03:27 AM   #1361
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Apparently you have not a single thing to say about what I actually requested.
In order to make this assertion you've literally had to cut out three paragraphs from my post.

Quote:
Do you agree or don't you agree with my request to provide more information for the news posted here?
I've already explained at length - this is not a job. It's not my responsibility to inform anybody of anything. I'm posting what I come across as I come across it if I feel it may add to the thread.

If you feel that's detrimental to the thread, you can skip my posts and/or put me on ignore. If you want there to be better contributions to the thread, you are fee to make your own contributions. If you want there to be better sources from which you can gather your news, you are free to get your news from other sources. You're not a child and I'm not your mum. The power to improve this thread and/or your information gathering methodology is entirely in your hands, as is the power to ignore anything that irks you.

Or you can stamp your feet about the fact that the news you do get from other people in this thread isn't from a source that you'd prefer. That's the least productive option, but how you choose to spend your time is up to you, just as how I choose to spend mine is up to me - and I choose not to spend it going out of my way to find sources that you'll approve of.
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:35 AM   #1362
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Twitter thread about Trump's connections to Duetsche Bank, and the connection to Russia
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:48 AM   #1363
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emptywheel thread about the hand-off of Cohen from Mueller to the SDNY

Documents or articles embedded in tweets.

I think the second tweet is the most notable:

Quote:
It shows that by July 18, 2017, Mueller had PC that Cohen was acting as the Agent of a Foreign Government.
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:51 AM   #1364
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...85901803118592

Quote:
Trump sold a $2.9 million NYC condo to a mysterious buyer on March 8, in a previously unreported deal laid out in public docs, according to Forbes.

Officially, the buyer was an LLC, which can be used to shield the IDs of people purchasing real estate.
Article embedded in tweet.
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Old 20th March 2019, 04:05 AM   #1365
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
In order to make this assertion you've literally had to cut out three paragraphs from my post.
I'd say something about that, which should be obvious from reading the post you quoted, but I said I'd shut up about it out of respect for Smartcooky, so you can have the last word.
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Old 20th March 2019, 10:39 AM   #1366
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Flustered POTUS asserts "no collusion" in very strange statement to the press today. I think Trump is not enjoying the anticipation.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1108411016868757505
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:24 AM   #1367
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Flustered POTUS asserts "no collusion" in very strange statement to the press today. I think Trump is not enjoying the anticipation.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1108411016868757505
"A man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report. You know. Never figured that one out! Man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report."

Ummm . . . okay.
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:33 AM   #1368
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
"A man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report. You know. Never figured that one out! Man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report."

Ummm . . . okay.
Wow, that's pretty unhinged.
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Old 20th March 2019, 11:35 AM   #1369
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I suspect the Mueller report will not matter in the long run. The Democrats seem on the verge of handing Trump relection on a silver platter.
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Old 20th March 2019, 12:16 PM   #1370
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
"A man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report. You know. Never figured that one out! Man gets appointed by a deputy, he writes a report."

Ummm . . . okay.

Would you trust a report by someone appointed by Barney Fife? Of course not. Deputies are clowns. Nobody they appoint is going to have authority or competence.

EDIT: Ah. Apparently his point was that the report isn't really legitimate because Mueller wasn't elected.

Quote:
I had the greatest electoral victory in the history in the country. Tremendous success. Tens of millions of voters and now someone will write a report who never got a vote

Ignoring the fact that he actually had one of the smallest margins of victory in the Electroral College ever ...

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Old 20th March 2019, 02:38 PM   #1371
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect the Mueller report will not matter in the long run. The Democrats seem on the verge of handing Trump relection on a silver platter.
Oh c'mon, they have over a dozen great good okay candidates right now. What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:38 PM   #1372
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Originally Posted by Galaxie View Post
Oh c'mon, they have over a dozen great good okay candidates right now. What could possibly go wrong?
One of 'em could get the nomination . . .
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Old 20th March 2019, 03:56 PM   #1373
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I suspect the Mueller report will not matter in the long run. The Democrats seem on the verge of handing Trump relection on a silver platter.
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. But IMV, you're spouting nonsense.

The first primary is a year away and nothing, absolutely nothing of significance has happened yet. I expect the field is not set and there may be a few more candidates who might announce. But I also expect a few to drop out even before then.

What I KNOW is that I DON'T KNOW. And with all due respect, I am just as confident that you and everyone else don't either.
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Old Yesterday, 01:58 AM   #1374
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Trump Tweets

“The reason we have the Special Counsel investigation is that James Comey (a dirty cop) leaked his memos to a friend, who leaked them to the press, on purpose.” @KennedyNation
Totally illegal!

“John Solomon: As Russia Collusion fades, Ukrainian plot to help Clinton emerges.” @seanhannity @FoxNews
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Old Yesterday, 08:05 AM   #1375
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Quote:
I suspect the Mueller report will not matter in the long run. The Democrats seem on the verge of handing Trump relection on a silver platter.
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. But IMV, you're spouting nonsense.

The first primary is a year away and nothing, absolutely nothing of significance has happened yet. I expect the field is not set and there may be a few more candidates who might announce. But I also expect a few to drop out even before then.
I don't think his concerns are so much nonsense as they are overly pessimistic.

Trump has a very solid base of ~40% who seem to be unshakable, and if the economy doesn't start to have problems by 2020 they likely won't abandon him. You've got a democratic primary that is resembling the republican Clown Car primaries of 2016, 2 front runners that are old, one of which is an "outsider" who has a ton of skeletons in his closet should he win. And you have a fight between "moderates" and "progressives" (who seem to forget that even a "moderate" democrat is to the left of the political center, and who seem to forget that it doesn't matter how good your policies are, if they won't be popular you won't get elected), the result of the infighting will be more resentment regardless of who wins.
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Old Yesterday, 08:19 AM   #1376
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Trump has a very solid base of ~40% who seem to be unshakable, and if the economy doesn't start to have problems by 2020 they likely won't abandon him. You've got a democratic primary that is resembling the republican Clown Car primaries of 2016, 2 front runners that are old, one of which is an "outsider" who has a ton of skeletons in his closet should he win. And you have a fight between "moderates" and "progressives" (who seem to forget that even a "moderate" democrat is to the left of the political center, and who seem to forget that it doesn't matter how good your policies are, if they won't be popular you won't get elected), the result of the infighting will be more resentment regardless of who wins.
Ssssssshhhhh. You can't say stuff like that! Why do you want the BAD ORANGE MAN to win?

The Democrats have gone from "Hope is a legitimate strategy" to "Hope is the ONLY legitimate strategy and if you suggest otherwise you're a mole for the other side."
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Old Yesterday, 08:34 AM   #1377
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't think his concerns are so much nonsense as they are overly pessimistic.

Trump has a very solid base of ~40% who seem to be unshakable, and if the economy doesn't start to have problems by 2020 they likely won't abandon him. You've got a democratic primary that is resembling the republican Clown Car primaries of 2016, 2 front runners that are old, one of which is an "outsider" who has a ton of skeletons in his closet should he win. And you have a fight between "moderates" and "progressives" (who seem to forget that even a "moderate" democrat is to the left of the political center, and who seem to forget that it doesn't matter how good your policies are, if they won't be popular you won't get elected), the result of the infighting will be more resentment regardless of who wins.
Here's the thing. No one really knows where the center is. All these so called "leftist" policies are incredibly popular with the public. For decades now the Republicans have been calling any policies positions emanating from the Democratic party as liberal and leftist even when they're not. The Democratic Party would be the Republican party in every country in Europe. That's how far to the right they have been dragged. They've become the meh party. Pansy assed and afraid of their own shadow.

I've gotten sick of the lack of fighters in the Democratic party.

As for the election, swing voters aren't paying attention yet and general elections aren't won until the last few months. They're not won 18 months before. Relax. Don't get too optimistic or pessimistic. It's way too early.
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 AM   #1378
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here's the thing. No one really knows where the center is. All these so called "leftist" policies are incredibly popular with the public.
To be honest, I don't think you can really say exactly how popular those policies actually are, since polling questions tend to ask questions which remove details that might be critical.

Take for example health care. Ask a polling question about "do you support universal health care" and a majority will say "heck yes". Get into some of the details (will you continue to allow private insurance? Will your taxes go up?) and support drops.

I'm not saying that ultimately people wouldn't support stronger social programs, but assuming that "socialist policies are wildly popular" may be incorrect.
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Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM   #1379
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here's the thing. No one really knows where the center is. All these so called "leftist" policies are incredibly popular with the public. For decades now the Republicans have been calling any policies positions emanating from the Democratic party as liberal and leftist even when they're not. The Democratic Party would be the Republican party in every country in Europe. That's how far to the right they have been dragged. They've become the meh party. Pansy assed and afraid of their own shadow.

I've gotten sick of the lack of fighters in the Democratic party.

As for the election, swing voters aren't paying attention yet and general elections aren't won until the last few months. They're not won 18 months before. Relax. Don't get too optimistic or pessimistic. It's way too early.
I agree. The Democrats are still doing a **** job of communication, but you could rebuild an actual Conservative party using only Democrats: fiscally conservative and willing to compromise on social issues to a point I find distasteful.

ETA: Reagan would fall firmly in the Democratic Party were he to be alive and advocating his policies of the 80s.
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Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM   #1380
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here's the thing. No one really knows where the center is.
I think it's even more basic then that. Most people don't care where the center is.

This might be uncharacteristically optimistic for me, but I think people are in general more concerned with how good of an idea they think X is then where on the left to right scale X lays.
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 AM   #1381
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
To be honest, I don't think you can really say exactly how popular those policies actually are, since polling questions tend to ask questions which remove details that might be critical.

Take for example health care. Ask a polling question about "do you support universal health care" and a majority will say "heck yes". Get into some of the details (will you continue to allow private insurance? Will your taxes go up?) and support drops.

I'm not saying that ultimately people wouldn't support stronger social programs, but assuming that "socialist policies are wildly popular" may be incorrect.
That's true about almost everything. It was even true about BREXIT. It's also why a democracy in its pure form doesn't work for complex and complicated issues. The average voter doesn't understand the details and minutiae. So it ends up being about messaging. Which the GOP has always been better at.

The public has been "scared" off of universal healthcare for decades. In the meantime, other countries have had a generally favorable result while Americans continue to be sodomized by the healthcare industry.

The right candidate can move policy better than policies can move candidates. I''m personally interested in policy positions but i don't believe they win very many elections.
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Old Yesterday, 09:22 AM   #1382
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think it's even more basic then that. Most people don't care where the center is.

This might be uncharacteristically optimistic for me, but I think people are in general more concerned with how good of an idea they think X is then where on the left to right scale X lays.
I agree 100 percent. The word "socialist" use to have a boogeyman effect. I don't think almost anyone is frightened by it any more. Far more frightening to me was the NRA commercial I just saw on YouTube inciting violence.
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Old Yesterday, 09:27 AM   #1383
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Well yeah, so the Democrats fighting over whether their candidate needs to be "Progressive" or just "Democratic" is so much the braying of sheep to most voters, even Democratic voters.

Give the public a candidate with good ideas that align with the party's core values without putting a purity test on how liberal they are... and you'll probably see positive results and feedback.

But they just can't resist NOT doing that.
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM   #1384
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
To be honest, I don't think you can really say exactly how popular those policies actually are, since polling questions tend to ask questions which remove details that might be critical.

Take for example health care. Ask a polling question about "do you support universal health care" and a majority will say "heck yes". Get into some of the details (will you continue to allow private insurance? Will your taxes go up?) and support drops.

I'm not saying that ultimately people wouldn't support stronger social programs, but assuming that "socialist policies are wildly popular" may be incorrect.
Because you can't seperate government policies and the populace.

Yeah most countries have universal health care. You know what most countries also have? A population that isn't overwhelmingly overweight.

Universal healthcare in a country where a sizable percentage of population isn't mobile under their own power is going to be a different beast.

The fact that I can't go to my local grocery store and not see a minimum of 20 people in mobility scooters yet I don't recall ever seeing one in all my time in Europe is probably a factor in all this.

The idea that Universal Healthcare requires a tipping point of the population to actually give a crap about their health before it will work effectively and the possibility that America might not have reached that point yet doesn't strike me all that radical of a thought.
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM   #1385
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well yeah, so the Democrats fighting over whether their candidate needs to be "Progressive" or just "Democratic" is so much the braying of sheep to most voters, even Democratic voters.

Give the public a candidate with good ideas that align with the party's core values without putting a purity test on how liberal they are... and you'll probably see positive results and feedback.

But they just can't resist NOT doing that.
Who is "they"? I see this pigeonholing mostly by the media.

ETA: And analysts, pundits, people with an axe to grind. Do the candidates do it that much?
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Old Yesterday, 09:35 AM   #1386
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Who is "they"? I see this pigeonholing mostly by the media.
Honestly it's mostly just from internet based fanboys for the political sides. For them it's like... super important that the pendulum swing over to the other side X amount or it doesn't feel like a "win" to them.

I couldn't care less and I don't think I'm in poor company.

The general population doesn't care how "Left or Right" a candidate is, even when they just use it as a talking point.
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM   #1387
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because you can't seperate government policies and the populace.

Yeah most countries have universal health care. You know what most countries also have? A population that isn't overwhelmingly overweight.

Universal healthcare in a country where a sizable percentage of population isn't mobile under their own power is going to be a different beast.

The fact that I can't go to my local grocery store and not see a minimum of 20 people in mobility scooters yet I don't recall ever seeing one in all my time in Europe is probably a factor in all this.

The idea that Universal Healthcare requires a tipping point of the population to actually give a crap about their health before it will work effectively and the possibility that America might not have reached that point yet doesn't strike me all that radical of a thought.
I read this whole thing as, "Get American's in shape and THEN we can work on healthcare." Which seems like backwards ass logic to me. "We", Americans, could easily have gotten to that point BECAUSE we didn't have socialized healthcare to help us learn proper food consumption.

This almost seems like victim blaming. "It's you fat ******* fault we can't have government healthcare! Fix yourselves and we can talk about it."

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Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM   #1388
JoeMorgue
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I read this whole thing as, "Get American's in shape and THEN we can work on healthcare." Which seems like backwards ass logic to me. "We", Americans, could easily have gotten to that point BECAUSE we didn't have socialized healthcare to help us learn proper food consumption.

This almost seems like victim blaming. "It's you fat ******* fault we can't have government healthcare! Fix yourselves and we can talk about it."

"I don't beat you because I like it, I beat you to make you a better person!"
I'm just saying the less healthy populace is just one of those things you have to factor in when creating a health care system. Nothing more, nothing less.

I figured someone would just hear "FAT SHAMING!"

And the broader point that the reason more socialist programs work in other countries is because most of the populace wants them. That's not a factor you can just make not true.
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Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM   #1389
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In an attempt to get this thread back on track...

Some useful poll numbers:

From: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/america...-a-witch-hunt/
a new poll finds that most Americans are at least moderately confident that Robert Mueller's probe has been fair and impartial...Overall, about 6 in 10 Americans have at least some confidence in the fairness of the investigation...About a third of Americans say Mr. Trump has done something illegal when it comes to his ties with Russia, while roughly an additional third say he has done something unethical.

And from: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...to-investigate
Most Americans have confidence in special counsel Robert Mueller and congressional Democrats, as both investigate aspects of President Trump and his administration, according to a new Hill-HarrisX poll. The survey, released Monday, found that 19 percent of registered voters trust Mueller the most, followed by 10 percent who chose Democrats. Twenty eight percent of respondents said they trust the special counsel and Democratic lawmakers equally.

All this is good news, as previous polls showed a drop in support for the Mueller investigation.

Of course, things continue to be extremely partisan, with republicans being far, far less likely to assume the investigations are fair.
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Old Yesterday, 10:35 AM   #1390
plague311
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm just saying the less healthy populace is just one of those things you have to factor in when creating a health care system. Nothing more, nothing less.

I figured someone would just hear "FAT SHAMING!"

And the broader point that the reason more socialist programs work in other countries is because most of the populace wants them. That's not a factor you can just make not true.
Not sure what that means, I can't parse it.

You probably knew someone was going to hear that because that's literally the exact thing you said. Are you implying that all of the other developed, first world countries don't have their own issues they have to over come? Are we not factoring in the health of the populace now? Shouldn't that be the problem instead of fat people? Are we, as a society, less healthy than other developed countries? Do you have anything to backup that claim?

I guess what I'm trying to say, is you're saying that what you said isn't what you're actually saying, so what are you saying then?
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Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM   #1391
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
...

The Democrats have gone from "Hope is a legitimate strategy" to "Hope is the ONLY legitimate strategy and if you suggest otherwise you're a mole for the other side."


And you get this from where?
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Old Yesterday, 10:56 AM   #1392
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Honestly it's mostly just from internet based fanboys for the political sides. For them it's like... super important that the pendulum swing over to the other side X amount or it doesn't feel like a "win" to them.

I couldn't care less and I don't think I'm in poor company.

The general population doesn't care how "Left or Right" a candidate is, even when they just use it as a talking point.
Maybe you should look at a wider variety of fans, are there any fangirls where you hang out?
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Old Yesterday, 11:20 AM   #1393
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Maybe you should look at a wider variety of fans, are there any fangirls where you hang out?

Depends on which bar it is.

Some of them don't have floor shows.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #1394
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Depends on which bar it is.

Some of them don't have floor shows.
Stormy is moving to the main stage.
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Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM   #1395
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Democrats seem on the verge of handing Trump relection on a silver platter.
I sure hope so, because my plans for the coming civil war are dependent on Trump winning the next election.

Quote:
I suspect the Mueller report will not matter in the long run.
It will matter alright, but not in the way most people think. It will be damning, but it won't shake Republican support for Trump - which is what needs to happen for my plan to succeed.

By 2020 the economy will be in the toilet, gas prices up, our international standing in tatters and Trump more unhinged than ever. But none of this will matter to conservatives. What will matter is that the fig leaf of "it's the economy stupid" will fall off, revealing the naked truth about their real reasons for supporting him. This will liberate them from having to 'hide their light under a bushel', allowing them to finally pursue their dream of returning to a racist pre Civil War society - complete with slaves and indentured labor, religion entwined with state, aligning with hostile foreign powers etc.

On the other side, liberals will become so incensed that they will (finally!) put aside their internal differences to fight the common enemy. Lines will be drawn between red and blue states, with one side or the other openly defying the government. At this point there will be only one possible outcome - war!

But if Trump is impeached or loses the next election then none of this will happen - and my dream will die.


Do others share my dream? It would seem so...

James Comey says he hopes Trump won’t be ‘impeached and removed from office’
Quote:
“I hope that Mr. Trump is not impeached and removed from office before the end of his term. I don’t mean that Congress shouldn’t move ahead with the process of impeachment governed by our Constitution, if Congress thinks the provable facts are there,” he wrote. “I just hope it doesn’t.”

And his reasoning?
Quote:
Comey continued: “Because if Mr. Trump were removed from office by Congress, a significant portion of this country would see this as a coup, and it would drive those people farther from the common center of American life, more deeply fracturing our country.”
But as an expert on such matters, Comey knows that in fact the opposite would happen. With Trump removed from office the GOP could wash their hands of him and pretend to return to 'normal' - and nothing of any consequence would happen. To really fracture this country we need Trump to stay in power and force conservatives to openly embrace the values he represents - or completely repudiate him and become liberals. Only then will everyone be forced to pick a side and literally fight for it.
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Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM   #1396
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't think his concerns are so much nonsense as they are overly pessimistic.



Trump has a very solid base of ~40% who seem to be unshakable, and if the economy doesn't start to have problems by 2020 they likely won't abandon him. You've got a democratic primary that is resembling the republican Clown Car primaries of 2016, 2 front runners that are old, one of which is an "outsider" who has a ton of skeletons in his closet should he win. And you have a fight between "moderates" and "progressives" (who seem to forget that even a "moderate" democrat is to the left of the political center, and who seem to forget that it doesn't matter how good your policies are, if they won't be popular you won't get elected), the result of the infighting will be more resentment regardless of who wins.
If there was one thing people showed they didn't want at the last election it was just the same old machine politics.
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Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM   #1397
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I don't think his concerns are so much nonsense as they are overly pessimistic.

Trump has a very solid base of ~40% who seem to be unshakable, and if the economy doesn't start to have problems by 2020 they likely won't abandon him. You've got a democratic primary that is resembling the republican Clown Car primaries of 2016, 2 front runners that are old, one of which is an "outsider" who has a ton of skeletons in his closet should he win. And you have a fight between "moderates" and "progressives" (who seem to forget that even a "moderate" democrat is to the left of the political center, and who seem to forget that it doesn't matter how good your policies are, if they won't be popular you won't get elected), the result of the infighting will be more resentment regardless of who wins.
Is the infighting what makes it a "clown car" on par with the 2016 GOP or their actual proposals.
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Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM   #1398
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
.....The Democratic Party would be the Republican party in every country in Europe. That's how far to the right they have been dragged.
Yessir, THIS!

If you transplanted the Democrats into New Zealand, they would be a lot closer to National (Conservatives) than to Labour (Liberals).

If you transplanted the New Zealand Labour into the USA, that strange popping sound you would be hearing would be GOP heads exploding all over America.
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