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Old 27th May 2010, 11:23 AM   #41
TSR
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
I think
,
... all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding...
,
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
it was successful in many trials, but I don't have the data.
,
Nor do you ever have any data.
,
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Many Nazis were given a few years only, and many had those sentences shortened.
,
And which of those used "the Nuremberg defense," hmmmn?
,
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Well, I wanted to look this up to bookmark the ref ... so I did ... the thread was 'Soviets Faked Footage at Auschwitz'

Quote:
As a result of the screening, Defence Counsel agreed that, indeed, each of the witnesses identified a portion of the pictures, and hence, in this way, the entire screening was authenticated. I understand that Defence Counsel
does not insist that the oath be administered to these identifying witnesses, but they are present here, at the Court's disposal, should the Court desire further authentication from them or to put additional questions to them.
,
This would be the defence counsel Eichmann explicitly thanks for defending his rights? What evidence do you present that Mrs. Salzberger, Mr. Hoch, Mr. Aviel, Mr. Melkman, Mr. Ben-Zvi, Mr. Bakon, Mrs. Kagan, Mr. Chen and Mr. Aharon Hoter-Yishai did not say what they reportedly said?

Which part of

Quote:
Defence Counsel agreed that, indeed, each of the witnesses identified a portion of the pictures, and hence, in this way, the entire screening was authenticated
,
...are you having trouble understanding?

And are you really sure you want to link to a thread which amply displays your lies about the 'zoo' at Treblinka, and about the 'shower room' at Dachau, and all of which you were made to run with your tail between your legs, like the Brave Aryan Warrior you pretend to be?
,

Last edited by TSR; 27th May 2010 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 28th May 2010, 05:34 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
like the Brave Aryan Warrior you pretend to be?
Well, I guess it's the brave Aryan warrior vs. the Zionist hag ! LOL.

In any case, we have just begun to probe the depths of Zionist depravity displayed at the Eichmann trial. I have to congratulate Muelenkamp (sp) for including in his page on the film the following analysis and trial excerpts ....

Not only was Eichmann guilty of severing human heads, he is also connected with the hoax soap made from Jewish fat ....

As to the decapitated human bodies and the heads lying in a bucket beside them, similarity with some rather graphic photos of corpses lying in containers, which are shown here, suggests that the film image in question is related to the Soviet allegations of experiments in the manufacture of soap from human corpses conducted at the Danzig Anatomical Institute, which had been presented at the Nuremberg Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal

He also assisted in the collection of human skeletons ...

It is also possible, considering similarity with these very graphic images from a French investigation of crimes committed at Struthof/Natzweiler concentration camp in Alsace, that the image in question is related to a singularly macabre endeavor that Eichmann was accused of having been involved in, the making of an “anthropological” skeleton collection suggested to Himmler by SS-Hauptsturmführer Dr. August Hirt, head of the Anatomical Institute at Strasbourg University, for which the bodies of people killed at Natzweiler concentration camp in Alsace were used.

And my favorite, when skeltons were requested, Eichmann, having none handy, just sent a group of Jews to be killed and ????

Presiding Judge: Did you say that the last section was filmed in Strasbourg?

Attorney General: There was the matter of the supply of one hundred and fifty skeletons to the Institute for Ancestral Research "Ahnenerbe". We shall prove the link with the Accused. Instead of supplying skeletons, he supplied living people whose skeletons served the institute.


Such was the absolute insanity of the Eichmann hoax trial.

Last edited by Saggy; 28th May 2010 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 28th May 2010, 08:45 AM   #43
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So Eichmann was a hoax?
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Old 28th May 2010, 09:05 AM   #44
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My German teacher in high school survived a Concentration Camp and showed us his tattoo during talks he gave on the holocaust. His talks were some of the most emotional and disturbing that I have ever witnessed.

Saggy, your argument is vile.
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Old 1st June 2010, 09:25 PM   #45
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Oh goodness. Are we dealing with the soap red herring again?

Get some new material Saggy.
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Old 2nd June 2010, 01:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Well, I guess it's the brave Aryan warrior vs. the Zionist hag ! LOL.
.
You have no idea regarding my opinions of Zionism, as has been pointed out to you before, so continuing to pretend that you do simply makes you look *more* idiotic.

As if that were possible...
.
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Not only was Eichmann guilty of severing human heads, he is also connected with the hoax soap made from Jewish fat ....

As to the decapitated human bodies and the heads lying in a bucket beside them, similarity with some rather graphic photos of corpses lying in containers, which are shown here, suggests that the film image in question is related to the Soviet allegations of experiments in the manufacture of soap from human corpses conducted at the Danzig Anatomical Institute, which had been presented at the Nuremberg Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal
.
Where in that quote, or indeed anywhere in the IMT or Eichmann transcripts is it stated that this was specifically *Jewish* fat?

Nowhere?

Why did you lie about it, then?

Careful, Saggy, your brown shirt is showing...
.
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
He also assisted in the collection of human skeletons ...

It is also possible, considering similarity with these very graphic images from a French investigation of crimes committed at Struthof/Natzweiler concentration camp in Alsace, that the image in question is related to a singularly macabre endeavor that Eichmann was accused of having been involved in, the making of an “anthropological” skeleton collection suggested to Himmler by SS-Hauptsturmführer Dr. August Hirt, head of the Anatomical Institute at Strasbourg University, for which the bodies of people killed at Natzweiler concentration camp in Alsace were used.
.
With which part of "it is ***possible*** are you having comprehension problems? It's that third syllable, isn't it?
.
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
And my favorite, when skeltons were requested, Eichmann, having none handy, just sent a group of Jews to be killed and ????

Presiding Judge: Did you say that the last section was filmed in Strasbourg?

Attorney General: There was the matter of the supply of one hundred and fifty skeletons to the Institute for Ancestral Research "Ahnenerbe". We shall prove the link with the Accused. Instead of supplying skeletons, he supplied living people whose skeletons served the institute.
.
Again, Saggy -- you need to share with us the sooper seekrit Nazi decoder ring with which you discovered the word "Jews" in the above.
.
Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
Such was the absolute insanity of the Eichmann hoax trial.
.

The only question of sanity here is your own -- watch out! There's a Jooo under your bed!
.

Last edited by TSR; 2nd June 2010 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 10:50 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
You have no idea regarding my opinions of Zionism, as has been pointed out to you before, so continuing to pretend that you do simply makes you look *more* idiotic.

As if that were possible...
.

.
Where in that quote, or indeed anywhere in the IMT or Eichmann transcripts is it stated that this was specifically *Jewish* fat?

Nowhere?

Why did you lie about it, then?

Careful, Saggy, your brown shirt is showing...
.

.
With which part of "it is ***possible*** are you having comprehension problems? It's that third syllable, isn't it?
.

.
Again, Saggy -- you need to share with us the sooper seekrit Nazi decoder ring with which you discovered the word "Jews" in the above.
.

.

The only question of sanity here is your own -- watch out! There's a Jooo under your bed!
.
.
He's been on, but no response from Saggs.

How very ... expected.
.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 10:57 AM   #48
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Sorry if this has already been covered. . .

Originally Posted by ShadowSot View Post
He wrote one of the definitive first hand accounts of the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a hoax crowd would captialize him not having a tattoo as proof against it.
And of course they'd be committing the formal logical fallacy denying the antecedent.

Here's the fallacious argument form:
P1. if P then Q
P2. not-P
C. therefore not Q

Here's the fallacious argument in words:
P1. Having a tattoo is proof one was in a death camp.
P2. Elie Wiesel doesn't have a tattoo.
C. Therefore Elie Wisel wasn't in a death camp.

So even if it's true that he has no tattoo, it is proof of nothing wrt to his having witnessed the Holocaust. Even if both premises are true, the conclusion doesn't follow and isn't necessarily true.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 11:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
Sorry if this has already been covered. . .


And of course they'd be committing the formal logical fallacy denying the antecedent.

Here's the fallacious argument form:
P1. if P then Q
P2. not-P
C. therefore not Q

Here's the fallacious argument in words:
P1. Having a tattoo is proof one was in a death camp.
P2. Elie Wiesel doesn't have a tattoo.
C. Therefore Elie Wisel wasn't in a death camp.

So even if it's true that he has no tattoo, it is proof of nothing wrt to his having witnessed the Holocaust. Even if both premises are true, the conclusion doesn't follow and isn't necessarily true.
What you are missing it that Wiesel has stated on the record that he has a tattoo. Thus, if he doesn't, he's a liar. And he is the iconic representative of the holohoax. Thus, if it is unequivocally demonstrated that he is a liar in terms that the simplest moron can understand, the holohoax is discredited. And, it seems to be in a pretty defensive posture these days, so it might go down hard.
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Old 3rd June 2010, 12:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
What you are missing it that Wiesel has stated on the record that he has a tattoo. Thus, if he doesn't, he's a liar. And he is the iconic representative of the holohoax. Thus, if it is unequivocally demonstrated that he is a liar in terms that the simplest moron can understand, the holohoax is discredited.
.
And Zundel, Irving , Rudolf and yourself are the iconic representatives of denial.

Since it have been unequivocally demonstrated that you are all liars, employing what you substitute for logic, what does that do to the credibility of Holocaust denial?

Are you going to snip and run from this or ignore it like you usually do, oh brave aryan warrior?

BTW, who (other than deniers) try to claim that the normative understanding of the Holocaust depends entirely on the credibility (or lack thereof) of a single man?
.

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Old 26th January 2011, 10:48 PM   #51
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Elie Wiesel and the missing tattoo

Some people may be aware of the claim by Auschwitz survivor Niklos Gruener that Elie Wiesel has claimed the identity and number of an older man he knew at Auschwitz, Lazar Wiesel (Lazar is a variant of Eliezar..Elie, but Mr Gruener says it was a different and older man).

I have pulled together some material that suggests that Elie Wiesel is possibly the son of a Mendel and Golda Wiesel

I have put it together here if anyone is interested
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...iesels-tattoo/

The original documents that Auschwitz survivor Mr Gruener collected can be seen here
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...the-documents/

I would hope that if Elie Wiesel really does have a tattoo perhaps some way could be found to make this public.
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Old 26th January 2011, 11:07 PM   #52
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Another utterly pointless thread for you to vent your hatred in, then? Couldn't you make do with the ones you had? Are you planning to clutter the entire first page of this forum section with hate filled denialist threads?
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Old 26th January 2011, 11:11 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Another utterly pointless thread for you to vent your hatred in, then? Couldn't you make do with the ones you had? Are you planning to clutter the entire first page of this forum section with hate filled denialist threads?
Delusional Nazi deniers unite.

There are only a few on this forum, but that's a few too many.
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Old 26th January 2011, 11:12 PM   #54
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Troll. Feed. Don't. Thank you.
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Old 26th January 2011, 11:22 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
Troll. Feed. Don't. Thank you.
Yeah, but it is good fun to see their backsides handed to them in a very comprehensive manner.
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Old 27th January 2011, 12:42 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yeah, but it is good fun to see their backsides handed to them in a very comprehensive manner.
Sheesh, I thought it was the 66th anniversary of the liberation Auschwitz, in turns out for some people it's spit on an Auschwitz survivor day.

Mr Gruener, I salute you. I salute your courage to tell the truth against all those who threatened you and harassed you.

You are example of bravery and determination to speak the truth that the likes of lionking, tsr and uke2se would do well to emulate.
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Old 27th January 2011, 12:48 AM   #57
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You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and kicked you in the arse.
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Old 27th January 2011, 12:57 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You wouldn't know the truth if it came up and kicked you in the arse.
Well if you have to kick someone's bottom go and kick the 80 year old Auschwitz survivor Mr Gruener - he's the one who let the cat out of the bag re Elie Wiesel, not me.

Beating up on an 80 year old Holocaust survivor - oh the pity of it all.
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Old 27th January 2011, 01:14 AM   #59
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You fail even as a troll.
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Old 27th January 2011, 05:49 AM   #60
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What actually annoys me most about people such as yourself is your intellectual cowardice.

The information I present is somewhat equivocal - and I openly admit that - nevertheless people of good faith could easily believe Mr Gruener is right. His assertions deserve to be answered definitively one way or the other.

The impression I come away with from people like lionking, TSR and uke2se is that they firmly believe Elie Wiesel is a liar and is guilty as charged by Mr Gruener - but reasons only known in the darkness of their inner being wish to degrade and abuse Mr Gruener's testimony.

On Holocaust Day of all days - when we should be upholding the sanctity of genuine survivors, not protecting con artists.
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Old 27th January 2011, 06:05 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
What actually annoys me most about people such as yourself is your intellectual cowardice.

The information I present is somewhat equivocal - and I openly admit that - nevertheless people of good faith could easily believe Mr Gruener is right. His assertions deserve to be answered definitively one way or the other.

The impression I come away with from people like lionking, TSR and uke2se is that they firmly believe Elie Wiesel is a liar and is guilty as charged by Mr Gruener - but reasons only known in the darkness of their inner being wish to degrade and abuse Mr Gruener's testimony.

On Holocaust Day of all days - when we should be upholding the sanctity of genuine survivors, not protecting con artists.
Cry me a river. Rational people have very little patience for historical revisionists and deniers, so I'm sure you've developed a thick skin; it's the nature of the beast. One can even be right about a few things and still be generally an irrational bigot.

Stay true to yourself if that's what you want, but don't expect non ideologues to sing Kumbaya with you.
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Last edited by twinstead; 27th January 2011 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 27th January 2011, 06:07 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post

On Holocaust Day of all days - when we should be upholding the sanctity of genuine survivors, not protecting con artists.
And also remembering Mr. Gruener's mother and younger brother who were gassed on arrival at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
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Old 27th January 2011, 07:21 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Cry me a river. Rational people have very little patience for historical revisionists and deniers, so I'm sure you've developed a thick skin; it's the nature of the beast. One can even be right about a few things and still be generally an irrational bigot.

Stay true to yourself if that's what you want, but don't expect non ideologues to sing Kumbaya with you.
Mmmmmm, we do indeed have a heavy cross to carry.

But I find it difficult to understand your psychology. I look on Elie Wiesel and Mr Gruener with nothing more than a mild benign amusement.

But you, you purport to believe all this nonsense, surely you should be horrified by Mr Gruener's (genuine Auschwitz survivor) story and outraged at the actions of Professor Wiesel?

Yet you seem strangely unmoved.....as though you expect the powerful to be nothing more than cheap liars. How disheartening to have such a cynical view of humanity!
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Old 27th January 2011, 10:26 AM   #64
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It is unfortunate but you have shown dishonesty in other threads and a refusal to support your assertions or provide any evidence in support of any of your claims. I find myself unable to take anything you post seriously.
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Old 27th January 2011, 10:49 AM   #65
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Once again we bear witness to little grey rabbit's "research skills". This topic already exists: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=176018
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Old 27th January 2011, 11:00 AM   #66
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He keeps good company.
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Old 27th January 2011, 11:19 AM   #67
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Just to understand what the theory is here:
Wiesel wrote that he had a tattoo and yet doesn't.
If he knew he didn't have a tattoo why not have one put on to match his story?

It's not hard to do. You don't even have to go to a tattoo parlor. Ink, a needle and a shot of whiskey.
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Old 27th January 2011, 01:35 PM   #68
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Just to be clear, I read Elie Wiesel's book "Night" and I felt there were certain oddities about it. I'm not sure what, but it didn't seem to gel with some of the other (several) Holocaust survivor memoirs I've read.

Being critical about this one account is not to deny that Hitler and his odious cronies tried to and nearly succeeded in wiping an entire race from the face of the planet. I just felt there was something of a "through a glass darkly" aspect about this one book.

In a similar vein, on reading Fania Fénelon's "The Musicians of Auschwitz", I felt more than a little dubious that she would have been so forthright, apparently the only inmate with a conscience, so at odds and yet so beloved by the other inmates.

I had no doubt that she was there; I just felt that her account might be slightly... shall we say, dramatised? As if the awful truth wasn't "dramatic" enough.

Now, I believe, this much is generally accepted.

The fiercely emotive aura of the Holocaust doesn't have to interfere with one's critical judgement of a purported historical work.
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Old 27th January 2011, 01:52 PM   #69
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I heard Wiesel may be from Tatooine.

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Old 27th January 2011, 02:21 PM   #70
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Did someone check Elie Wiesel's lower back for a tramp stamp?
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Old 27th January 2011, 02:22 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Delusional Nazi deniers unite.
.
Ah yes, the fraternity of the unimportant and irrelevant.
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Old 27th January 2011, 02:49 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by NWOisBunk View Post
So... is the entirety of the holocaust's truth or falsity is based on whether Elie Wiesel has a tattoo?

Don't be silly! There's much more to the holocaust than Elie Wiesel getting a tattoo.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:04 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by CptColumbo View Post
Just to understand what the theory is here:
Wiesel wrote that he had a tattoo and yet doesn't.
If he knew he didn't have a tattoo why not have one put on to match his story?

It's not hard to do. You don't even have to go to a tattoo parlor. Ink, a needle and a shot of whiskey.
A tattoo done today looks very different from a tattoo that was done 67 years ago. I think if he did that he would infuriate genuine Auschwitz survivors beyond all measure.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:10 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I have to say, I certainly hope that Wiesel was lying. It would be a great relief to me to know that such evil had not occurred. And then, I'm sure, my great uncle, his wife, children and all their descendents would finally make contact with us from their "resettlement" camp in the east. We'll all eat and laugh and drink a toast to the silly people who ever believed that the events in Night actually happened to people in my family.

Do you believe the people in your family walked single file to the edge of a pit filled with fire and simply fell in because the SS told them to? Do you think none of them would notice that as they approached a pit full of fire hot enough to incinerate human corpses they wouldn't notice the uncomfortable heat? They wouldn't protest? They would just slowly walk to the edge and fall in? Even a retarded lemming would have a greater sense for self-preservation. Are you saying Jews don't even have that?
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:16 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
Surely this is a Stundie?

Not really. The quote you lifted from Saggy said "In the normal course of a court trial there is a plea of not-guilty and then a trial."

If you're charged with a crime, you can plead guilty, not guilty, or no contest. If you plead guilty or no contest, there won't be a trial.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:22 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Saggy View Post
There is an telling side light - I think it was discussed on this forum - where the prosecution showed a movie containing a scene of severed heads in a bucket, no identification of who took the movie, where it was taken, who the heads belonged to, why they were killed, absolutely nothing ... and Eichmann's 'defense' council gave it his tacit OK. A macabre farce.

LOL

I remember seeing a very poor quality film made by the Soviets upon the liberation of Auschwitz that showed a bucket of human heads. It might be the one you're talking about.

As an aside, I love the idiocy of this one. The Nazis blew up the gas chambers to hide their crimes before they bugged out but they left a bucket filled with human heads for the Commies to find. ROTFLMAO!
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:28 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by TSR View Post
.
Where in that quote, or indeed anywhere in the IMT or Eichmann transcripts is it stated that this was specifically *Jewish* fat?

Nowhere?

Why did you lie about it, then?
It would be no shocker if the fat was not specifically identified as Jewish. The IMT wasn't about punishing the Nazis for what they did to the Jews.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:33 PM   #78
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I would like to nominate Dogzilla.

Originally Posted by Dogzilla View Post
Do you believe the people in your family walked single file to the edge of a pit filled with fire and simply fell in because the SS told them to? Do you think none of them would notice that as they approached a pit full of fire hot enough to incinerate human corpses they wouldn't notice the uncomfortable heat? They wouldn't protest? They would just slowly walk to the edge and fall in? Even a retarded lemming would have a greater sense for self-preservation. Are you saying Jews don't even have that?

I don't get it. Is this the thread where we nominate stundies we find around the whackosphere, or is it where we come to write the actual stundies? Such as assuming that every single person who died in the camps was Jewish or that there was just the one way of dying in one? Or that no one survived one to tell the tale? Or that every US serviceman who helped empty out the camps afterwards decided to lie about what they saw?

And manage to be disgusting about the prospect of someone's loved one's deaths.
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Last edited by whatthebutlersaw; 27th January 2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:35 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler View Post
Sorry if this has already been covered. . .


And of course they'd be committing the formal logical fallacy denying the antecedent.

Here's the fallacious argument form:
P1. if P then Q
P2. not-P
C. therefore not Q

Here's the fallacious argument in words:
P1. Having a tattoo is proof one was in a death camp.
P2. Elie Wiesel doesn't have a tattoo.
C. Therefore Elie Wisel wasn't in a death camp.

So even if it's true that he has no tattoo, it is proof of nothing wrt to his having witnessed the Holocaust. Even if both premises are true, the conclusion doesn't follow and isn't necessarily true.

No, you're not getting it. Here's the logical argument.

P1: Elie Wiesel says he has a tattoo on his arm.
P2: Elie Wiesel does not have a tattoo on his arm.
C: Elie Wiesel is lying about having a tattoo on his arm.

If Elie Wiesel getting a tattoo is what you call the holocaust, then Elie Wiesel's lack of a tattoo means the holocaust didn't happen. However, most of us have a broader definition of the holocaust.
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Old 27th January 2011, 03:42 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by little grey rabbit View Post
What actually annoys me most about people such as yourself is your intellectual cowardice.

The impression I come away with from people like lionking, TSR and uke2se is that they firmly believe Elie Wiesel is a liar and is guilty as charged by Mr Gruener - but reasons only known in the darkness of their inner being wish to degrade and abuse Mr Gruener's testimony.

On Holocaust Day of all days - when we should be upholding the sanctity of genuine survivors, not protecting con artists.

For people like lionking, TSR, and uke2se, whether or not what Elie Wiesel says is true doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not what Elie Wiesel says about the holocaust sounds bad.

What Elie says sounds bad so it doesn't matter if it's true. Remember, some things are true that never happened.
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