IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 20th February 2011, 08:17 PM   #1
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,031
My Freeman question for Grndslm.

For the purposes of this thread, I am willing to concede every point of Freeman philosophy.

I understand that while there are differences in what Freemen believe (e.g. birth bonds and their availability) there is also a commonality. That being said, please correct me if I am wrong in assuming that the majority of Freemen broadly believe the following points:

1) U.S. income tax is inherently unjust.

2) Taking money through income tax by the threat of violence, property seizure, or imprisonment is a crime somewhere between theft and extortion.

3) Imprisoning people for victimless crimes (such as marijuana possession) is inherently unjust.

4) The scale of items 1,2, and 3 is so large that the U.S. could be considered one of the most corrupt regimes in the world.

5) This corruption is inherent in the system. Both political parties are aware of their culpability in these crimes.

6) This corruption dates back at least 80 years. [again, I don't want to try to pin down an exact date. I am simply stating that no knowledgeable U.S. Freeman would pick a start date less than 80 years ago]

7) This corruption is so pervasive that almost everyone in the federal government is aware that he or she is violating the core principles of justice. Furthermore, virtually all lawyers; all local, state, and federal prosecutors; and all local, state and federal police agencies are aware of their participation in in this crime of unimaginable magnitude.

8) When a Freeman is confronted by police or judges, there is a specific thing he can do or say to avoid participating in the criminal justice system. There may be disagreement as to what that action is (some say there are certain words to say, others say that there are certain words to not say, and others say there are certain documents to submit), but all agree that if they make the nature of their Freeman status known in the correct way, both judges and police will simply say, "we cannot interfere with you - you are free to go."


So my question is: why is number 8 true. If everyone involved in the system is so wickedly unjust that they will imprison people in violation of the most basic principles of society, in violation of the most sacred laws of God, in violation of the most ancient and fundamental laws of western civilization, why would they stop and let innocent people who know the secret sign walk away?

Yes there are corrupt regimes that start out saying, we will break these particular laws but not those laws; but after 40ish years they all break down and say there is no law that we will not break to hold power. There is nothing to stop the U.S. government from arresting and locking up Freemen who claim special status. Why would the government acknowledge their status - especially if this status became widely known, then they would lose all power.

ETA: we are talking about a regime that is allegedly so ruthless that they were willing to kill 3000 people on 9/11 to advance their own agenda.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

Last edited by Ladewig; 20th February 2011 at 08:21 PM.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2011, 08:27 PM   #2
solzhenitsyn
Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 187
Yeah, I've been trying to ask this question on the Icke forum. If the premise is that the "system" is completely corrupt, how can you suggest (indeed, rely completely on the fact) that there is a remedy ("lawful rebellion", which is about as large an oxymoron as I've ever come across) in that system? Why would there be? You are either in rebellion against the "system" (and if enough other people are as well, you succeed, and if not, you fail) or you are not.

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread. Just wanted to say that it is a good question and I look forward to hearing Grndlsm's (and others') reply.
solzhenitsyn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th February 2011, 09:33 PM   #3
The Platypus
Graduate Poster
 
The Platypus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,883
__________________
I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth".

Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too.
The Platypus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 01:05 AM   #4
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
I seem to recall asking a similar question many times of FOTLs. No answer.
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 07:47 AM   #5
jargon buster
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,773

Last edited by jargon buster; 21st February 2011 at 07:51 AM.
jargon buster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 09:53 AM   #6
jargon buster
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,773
Quote:
So my question is: why is number 8 true. If everyone involved in the system is so wickedly unjust that they will imprison people in violation of the most basic principles of society, in violation of the most sacred laws of God, in violation of the most ancient and fundamental laws of western civilization, why would they stop and let innocent people who know the secret sign walk away?
ah yes, create a loophole in the law to allow someone to "withdraw consent" and walk away from all charges.
A loophole that as yet no one in the history of mankind has used????
So, why have it at all?
jargon buster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 10:46 AM   #7
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
I always go back to the D and D analogy.

In a game, the villain always has to have some fault, some weakness, some kind of way to defeat them. And the reason is, that it just wouldn't be any fun to get squashed by a proper villain, over and over again.

In real life, there is no magic way to take down a tyrant, they are tyrannical. It doesn't take magic words, it doesn't take knowing how to play their game, they would just change the rules. It takes real rebellion, the kind that costs lives and changes history.

All the ct's reek of a custom made villian, scary enough to cause fear, but easy enough to defeat to make you want to get the magic sword, clove of garlic, magic spell, magic legal ritual so you can do it.

But whenever their game crosses over into real life, it is shown time and time again that the Evil Lich government does not have to follow your rules, they set the rules.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 10:55 AM   #8
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,456
As noted elsewhere FMOTL shares the mentally of tribes faced with a more civilized or technically advanced enemy. They cannot defeat it so someone comes along and claims that there is a magical way to defeat them, do the ritual and say the magic words and their bullets will not hurt you, you can walk amongst them unhurt and they will soon be gone.

The same mental process is at work with the FMOTL. Kinda of a new religion but in reality one that tens of thousands of years old.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 11:30 AM   #9
JimBenArm
Based on a true story!
 
JimBenArm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,092
So, you're saying Freddy the Freeloader is a Cargo Cult-er?

Sounds good to me!
__________________
"JimBenArm is right" Hokulele Mom
JimBenArm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 12:02 PM   #10
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
I wonder if the footles worship Prince Philip?
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 12:10 PM   #11
Toke
Godless Socialist
 
Toke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 8,171
Originally Posted by JimBenArm View Post
So, you're saying Freddy the Freeloader is a Cargo Cult-er?

Sounds good to me!
Or something like the "Ghost Shirts"
__________________
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. -K. Marx.

Toke is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 01:50 PM   #12
deeper
Critical Thinker
 
deeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I always go back to the D and D analogy.

Funny you should say that. When I was looking at his site and the how people there called themselves freemen but didn't seem to be using it's supposed magic in their lives, I got the feeling they were role-playing (Freeman class, attributes -5 INT , -5 WIS). I guess most of them must know it's a load of cods or are too scared/dope-fuelled-paranoid to use it.
deeper is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 02:25 PM   #13
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
All I know about roleplaying games is that Summon Bigger Fish is a powerful Cheddar Monk spell. Would it be useful here?
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 02:41 PM   #14
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
Originally Posted by deeper View Post
Funny you should say that. When I was looking at his site and the how people there called themselves freemen but didn't seem to be using it's supposed magic in their lives, I got the feeling they were role-playing (Freeman class, attributes -5 INT , -5 WIS). I guess most of them must know it's a load of cods or are too scared/dope-fuelled-paranoid to use it.
You poor posters that catch me on d and d night......

If i were to make a freemen class it would go a little something like this....

Prestige class, obviously, requirements are one level of cleric ( due to their rather constant referring to god and whathave you.) one level of rouge ( due to their defaulting on bills nature, which can be seen as rouge esque. ) and three levels of Commoner, or another similar npc class.

Base attack would be the same as wizard/sorcerer , denoting their lack of actually doing anything.

Base saves would be that of a fighter, with the exception of a lower will save ( denoting a tendancy to be easily led. )

The benefits would be as follows:

Stunning rant : Advancement works like stunning fist for monk, with the exception it is ran from charisma. When encountering authority, the freeman can choose to make a full round action of using a bluff check ( or knowledge law at a -10 penalty. ) and adding his/her CHA score. If the target fails a will save he will be stunned as per stunning fist, though no damage is taken, and the stun is immediately broken should the freeman or any companions attack the officer ( denoting the ability to momentarily make someone in a position of authority think about what they are saying, thereby wasting valuable time.)

Freeload - At levels 2, 4, 6, etc. The freeman gains the ability to take advantage of public services. Each level gains the freeman 1d4 + Int GP from each new town they arrive at, at the cost of moving anyone in a position of authority one step more toward hostile. At level 12 this bonus increases to 1d6 + int, and at level 20, increases to 1d12+int.

Burning Bridges : At levels 4 , 8 and 12 the freeman gains the ability to take advantage of specific groups of people ( denoting their tendency to take mortgages, power etc, but default on them. Thereby making specific organizations angry with them. ). Upon entering a store, temple, or other institution of an organized nature, the freeman can make a diplomacy check to receive services on a tab ( goods or services only, not direct cash). ( the freemans level + Cha X 10). Should the character default ( see defaulting section.) , the organization will not go to the authorities, but simply attempt to track the freeman down themselves to force payment. this could be a better or worse situation depending on the organization.

Buy time : At level 10, and 15 the freeman gains the ability to delay any action taken by a group in authority that is not of Neutral or Evil Alignment. When menaced by authority ( court proceeding, possible arrest , etc. ) the freeman can use this ability once per day per rank gained to do the following:

Delay the process 1d4 X. ( uses would be, if one is waiting in jail, if one needs some time to hatch a plan when one is in court, and staying an execution.

Or

Using both ranks in a single attempt will allow the freeman to make such a mockery of events that the focus of the authority's ire turns to them. Any party members will have their transgressions forgotten, but they will be visited on the freeman X1.5. Assuming the freeman has a good escape plan, this could be pretty useful.

Special:

Once per day the freeman must ' Default' on a contract or other responsibility, or lose any and all abilities associated with the freeman class. This could be not paying an inn tab, taking ale without paying, etc. The key factor is that the freeman cannot simply walk away if questioned. ( or they will face the same penalty) As an example, if a freeman were to attempt to default on the tab at the inn, they would be required to explain why they feel they should not have to pay to the innkeeper, and possibly the proper authorities. The freeman cannot chose to stop this until A) The person that is attempting to collect sees their point of view or B) They have been arrested. In the case of being arrested, the character must mention the arrest in any future cases of attempting to default.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 02:42 PM   #15
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
All I know about roleplaying games is that Summon Bigger Fish is a powerful Cheddar Monk spell. Would it be useful here?
I've never got that joke, as once through a quirk of rolling someone actually summoned nothing more than a very large fish, and due to the area it actually helped quite a bit. As a matter of fact, players lament not being able to summon " space whale" whenever there is a confined area and a lot of enemies.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 04:01 PM   #16
LightinDarkness
Master Poster
 
LightinDarkness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,583
Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I always go back to the D and D analogy.

In a game, the villain always has to have some fault, some weakness, some kind of way to defeat them. And the reason is, that it just wouldn't be any fun to get squashed by a proper villain, over and over again.

In real life, there is no magic way to take down a tyrant, they are tyrannical. It doesn't take magic words, it doesn't take knowing how to play their game, they would just change the rules. It takes real rebellion, the kind that costs lives and changes history.

All the ct's reek of a custom made villian, scary enough to cause fear, but easy enough to defeat to make you want to get the magic sword, clove of garlic, magic spell, magic legal ritual so you can do it.

But whenever their game crosses over into real life, it is shown time and time again that the Evil Lich government does not have to follow your rules, they set the rules.
I think the FMOTLers are unlikely to ever answer the OP, but I think sadhatter has it spot on.

The thing is that JREFers keep trying to use the lens of logic and reason to understand FMOTL woo. Doing so will only confuse you, because its founded in CT which requires you to suspend logic and reason.

Like most CTers, FOTLers see themselves as great champions of justice and righteousness "fighting" against what they have made an unstoppable force of utter evil. But they still have to have a way to win, else its no fun to be the righteous hero. So, since they've been making stuff up along the ways to begin with, they create a "hole" in their mythology that allows them to be victorious if they magically perform the EXACT ritual.

Its like a Scooby Doo episode for them. Except they get to be the Scooby gang and foil the evil plot all by themselves.
LightinDarkness is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 04:11 PM   #17
tsig
a carbon based life-form
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
Originally Posted by LightinDarkness View Post
I think the FMOTLers are unlikely to ever answer the OP, but I think sadhatter has it spot on.

The thing is that JREFers keep trying to use the lens of logic and reason to understand FMOTL woo. Doing so will only confuse you, because its founded in CT which requires you to suspend logic and reason.

Like most CTers, FOTLers see themselves as great champions of justice and righteousness "fighting" against what they have made an unstoppable force of utter evil. But they still have to have a way to win, else its no fun to be the righteous hero. So, since they've been making stuff up along the ways to begin with, they create a "hole" in their mythology that allows them to be victorious if they magically perform the EXACT ritual.

Its like a Scooby Doo episode for them. Except they get to be the Scooby gang and foil the evil plot all by themselves.
Except they're all Scooby Doo.
tsig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2011, 05:16 PM   #18
TSR
Illuminator
 
TSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
All I know about roleplaying games is that Summon Bigger Fish is a powerful Cheddar Monk spell. Would it be useful here?
.
Mmmmm. Fishies make you strong... < /WoW >
.
TSR is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 03:50 AM   #19
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Goodness gracious. A whole thread dedicated to me.

I'll answer the question, but it's rather dishonorable for this thread to be in the conspiracy section, when we ALL know that 1 thru 7 are true. Perhaps you don't believe 8 is true, but it is.

If a Spanish-speaking citizen/immigrant/person/man walks into a court room here, he cannot be held guilty until he understands the charges. I've seen it happen, where the court process just stops until they can find a translator.

The government is a group of men, using words as power over its subjects. If the subject does not understand (he has a right to, thanks to the 6th Amendment), he can simply state... "I cannot make an intelligent decision how to plead until I understand the nature and cause of the charges against me."

http://freemen.freeforums.org/do-not-plea-video-t7.html

That's just for starters.

Perhaps if LAW were allowed to be spoken about in the USA Politics section, I'd be more inclined to respond to additional comments. But the presumptions assumed, by both your moderators and members, are false... unless you're referring to the conspiracy of attorners, bankers, etc., yet it's still not a theory. There is a real conspiracy by these "societies" to steal as much as they possibly can from the "peasants" of the world, and they are succeeding.

Last edited by grndslm; 22nd February 2011 at 03:51 AM.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 03:55 AM   #20
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
I'll answer the question
When?
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 03:59 AM   #21
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by deeper View Post
Funny you should say that. When I was looking at his site and the how people there called themselves freemen but didn't seem to be using it's supposed magic in their lives, I got the feeling they were role-playing (Freeman class, attributes -5 INT , -5 WIS). I guess most of them must know it's a load of cods or are too scared/dope-fuelled-paranoid to use it.
Our old site was DDoS attacked by the government.

That's all the proof I need to keep uncovering secrets. You think some kid took down suijurisclub.net??

No, it was either a group of attorners, a group of bankers, or the federal gov't. AKA -- THE MAN.

Everybody is on their own path, with their own understanding. That is the biggest part that you people are missing is that I am a man, and only I can choose who I want to be. I have the right to change my name at any time, to change my religion at any time, to change my profession, my way of life... because only I have power over my life, liberty, body, & other property, excluding God of course. I can't do anything without Him, and I'm only on borrowed time, but as Children of God... all men *are* on equal ground, whether you like it or not.

I'm a man, I am not an animal. I'm sure you're all familiar with Genesis, right. If a man claims dominion over me, he's stating that I'm an animal... and that's not the case. I am a Child of God, and you have no power to tell me otherwise.

G'day, kind sirs!
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:00 AM   #22
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
When?
I think I already did...

Originally Posted by grndslm
If a Spanish-speaking citizen/immigrant/person/man walks into a court room here, he cannot be held guilty until he understands the charges. I've seen it happen, where the court process just stops until they can find a translator.

The government is a group of men, using words as power over its subjects. If the subject does not understand (he has a right to, thanks to the 6th Amendment), he can simply state... "I cannot make an intelligent decision how to plead until I understand the nature and cause of the charges against me."

http://freemen.freeforums.org/do-not-plea-video-t7.html

That's just for starters.
but this will definitely be my last post until we can get something, anything of your choice in the USA Politics section. Until then, this thread is based on a false presumption.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:01 AM   #23
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Goodness gracious. A whole thread dedicated to me.

I'll answer the question, but it's rather dishonorable for this thread to be in the conspiracy section, when we ALL know that 1 thru 7 are true. Perhaps you don't believe 8 is true, but it is.

If a Spanish-speaking citizen/immigrant/person/man walks into a court room here, he cannot be held guilty until he understands the charges. I've seen it happen, where the court process just stops until they can find a translator.

The government is a group of men, using words as power over its subjects. If the subject does not understand (he has a right to, thanks to the 6th Amendment), he can simply state... "I cannot make an intelligent decision how to plead until I understand the nature and cause of the charges against me."

http://freemen.freeforums.org/do-not-plea-video-t7.html

That's just for starters.

Perhaps if LAW were allowed to be spoken about in the USA Politics section, I'd be more inclined to respond to additional comments. But the presumptions assumed, by both your moderators and members, are false... unless you're referring to the conspiracy of attorners, bankers, etc., yet it's still not a theory. There is a real conspiracy by these "societies" to steal as much as they possibly can from the "peasants" of the world, and they are succeeding.
You did not answer.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:03 AM   #24
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
I think I already did...
Nope. Here's the question again, in case you've forgotten:
"So my question is: why is number 8 true. If everyone involved in the system is so wickedly unjust that they will imprison people in violation of the most basic principles of society, in violation of the most sacred laws of God, in violation of the most ancient and fundamental laws of western civilization, why would they stop and let innocent people who know the secret sign walk away?!"
Quote:
but this will definitely be my last post until we can get something, anything of your choice in the USA Politics section. Until then, this thread is based on a false presumption.
So you're running away. A victory for me.
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:04 AM   #25
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
There is nothing to stop the U.S. government from arresting and locking up Freemen who claim special status. Why would the government acknowledge their status - especially if this status became widely known, then they would lose all power.
You're on to something here.

Why would THE MAN use a Distributed Denial of Service attack, one of which the host could not possibly prevent, from taking our old site down??

Because if they didn't, they'd lose all power.

I've got news for you, tho. They're going to lose it anyway.

Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
ETA: we are talking about a regime that is allegedly so ruthless that they were willing to kill 3000 people on 9/11 to advance their own agenda.
That's correct. I am willing to die for future generations so that they might understand the Truth.

I really am.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:27 AM   #26
Vladd
Thinker
 
Vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 138
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Our old site was DDoS attacked by the government.
Do you have proof of this, or is this just paranoia?
__________________
You appear to be lost in thought. I know it's unfamiliar territory for you, shall I send a rescue party?
Vladd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:44 AM   #27
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
I'm sure you could call the site host that you can find when attempting to access the old site, www.suijurisclub.net , and ask them why the site is down. Ask them why they are attempting to charge us $180/mo to turn the site back on with a "dedicated server".

They Want Your Soul

And here's some good information to start reading if you feel like you'll need to be going to court...

http://freemen.freeforums.org/venue-...tion-t207.html
http://freemen.freeforums.org/sui-juris-t208.html
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:46 AM   #28
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
idiocy

Quote:
If everyone involved in the system is so wickedly unjust that they will imprison people in violation of the most basic principles of society, in violation of the most sacred laws of God, in violation of the most ancient and fundamental laws of western civilization, why would they stop and let innocent people who know the secret sign walk away?
ANSWER THE QUESTION
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

Last edited by twinstead; 22nd February 2011 at 04:47 AM.
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 04:53 AM   #29
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,031
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
You're on to something here.

Why would THE MAN use a Distributed Denial of Service attack, one of which the host could not possibly prevent, from taking our old site down??
I'd like to focus on the thread topic. If you really want to discuss what happened to your site, then please start a new thread. I will participate in it and ask why they didn't just kill you rather than mess with your site.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 05:21 AM   #30
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 28,031
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Goodness gracious. A whole thread dedicated to me.

I'll answer the question, but it's rather dishonorable for this thread to be in the conspiracy section, when we ALL know that 1 thru 7 are true. Perhaps you don't believe 8 is true, but it is.

If a Spanish-speaking citizen/immigrant/person/man walks into a court room here, he cannot be held guilty until he understands the charges. I've seen it happen, where the court process just stops until they can find a translator.

The government is a group of men, using words as power over its subjects. If the subject does not understand (he has a right to, thanks to the 6th Amendment), he can simply state... "I cannot make an intelligent decision how to plead until I understand the nature and cause of the charges against me."

http://freemen.freeforums.org/do-not-plea-video-t7.html

That's just for starters.
But that's not an answer because you can't have it both ways - the government cannot be so accommodating as to make sure that everyone is treated fairly while everything they do (items 1-7) is irredeemably devoted to treating people unfairly.

You are saying the government's position in your hypothetical is "we want to make sure you don't ever understand the nature of the charges against you but at the same time we want to falsely convince you that you think you understand the charges so that we can railroad you through a mockery of justice." Why is that even necessary in the most powerful dictatorship in the world?

Furthermore, your hypothetical is the exact opposite of how Freeman are treated. If someone doesn't speak English, the court doesn't try to trick the defendant into pleading. According to your testimony and the stories found on other websites, when inexperienced Freeman claims to be ignorant of the charges the judge, the clerk, the prosecutor, and everyone associated with the courts try to trap him by encouraging the Freeman to say certain phrases (or sign certain documents) which place the unwitting Freeman under the court's jurisdiction.

Also, defenders of the government would argue that the Spanish speaking defendant is given an interpreter because the U.S. wants U.S. citizens to have the right to an interpreter when they are accused of crimes in a foreign country.

..................

Let me ask the question a different way. If you were in charge a trillion dollar scam that depended on falsely imprisoning hundreds of thousands of people. A scam so invidious that if it were ever discovered, the populace would rise up as a whole and brutally execute you. And someone announced in open court that he was on to the scam and would tell everyone he knew how to defeat you, wouldn't you just have the bailiff take the person down the hall and shoot him? The official story would be "that guy went nuts and tried to grab my gun so he could kill innocent bystanders; I had to kill him to protect everyone." Why in God's name would you let that person go free??? There is zero upside and infinite downside.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.

Last edited by Ladewig; 22nd February 2011 at 05:24 AM.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 05:24 AM   #31
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
idiocy

ANSWER THE QUESTION
How many questions do I need to answer? What good will it do? Will you honestly not be prejudice while reading my answer??

I'll take it that you guys aren't prejudice as soon as we can get a thread in the USA Politics sub-forum. Is that section ONLY for politicians and NOT Law??

Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I'd like to focus on the thread topic. If you really want to discuss what happened to your site, then please start a new thread. I will participate in it and ask why they didn't just kill you rather than mess with your site.
It wasn't my site. If it was, then it'd be back up.

The owner is missing, so it's very likely that he could be dead or in jail.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 05:39 AM   #32
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Let me ask the question a different way. If you were in charge a trillion dollar scam that depended on falsely imprisoning hundreds of thousands of people. A scam so invidious that if it were ever discovered, the populace would rise up as a whole and brutally execute you. And someone announced in open court that he was on to the scam and would tell everyone he knew how to defeat you, wouldn't you just have the bailiff take the person down the hall and shoot him? The official story would be "that guy went nuts and tried to grab my gun so he could kill innocent bystanders; I had to kill him to protect everyone." Why in God's name would you let that person go free??? There is zero upside and infinite downside.
That's a pretty big if there.

I'm not a sell out. </HYPOTHETICAL>

MONEY ISN'T REAL.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 05:54 AM   #33
Sledge
Grammaton Cleric
 
Sledge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,114
This is what I like about footles: they do a brilliant job of debunking themselves.
__________________
"The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline

"Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.
Sledge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:25 AM   #34
Harpo
Graduate Poster
 
Harpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
I am willing to die for future generations so that they might understand the Truth.

I really am.
Prove it!!

If you can't (or won't) then just admit you're an armchair revolutionary and STFU.
__________________
"This statement cannot be proved" Kurt Gödel (paraphrased)
Harpo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:26 AM   #35
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Sledge View Post
This is what I like about footles: they do a brilliant job of debunking themselves.

Do elaborate...

In fact, why not have some logic fun and display your steps toward reaching conclusion. Then, go ahead and predict what my response will be. And try do do so without contempt.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:28 AM   #36
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Harpo View Post
Prove it!!

If you can't (or won't) then just admit you're an armchair revolutionary and STFU.
Well... go read "The Kingdom of God is Within You" by Leo Tolstoy, and you'll know who I am.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:33 AM   #37
JimBenArm
Based on a true story!
 
JimBenArm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,092
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Well... go read "The Kingdom of God is Within You" by Leo Tolstoy, and you'll know who I am.
You're Leo Tolstoy?
Really?
Really and truly?

Hi, glad to meet you.

Read "The Old Man and the Sea" and you'll know who I am.
__________________
"JimBenArm is right" Hokulele Mom
JimBenArm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:39 AM   #38
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
Like Leo Tolstoy, I am a Christian Anarchist.

There is no possible hypothetical situation in which I would be cheating, robbing, killing, lying, etc.

Those things exist, and I exist to "absorb" them so that they will stop perpetuating and come to an end.

Attack me all you'd like, but it doesn't do anything but make you look like a traitor of your own blood, your own brother.

Last edited by grndslm; 22nd February 2011 at 06:43 AM.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 06:54 AM   #39
JimBenArm
Based on a true story!
 
JimBenArm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,092
Originally Posted by grndslm View Post
Like Leo Tolstoy, I am a Christian Anarchist.

There is no possible hypothetical situation in which I would be cheating, robbing, killing, lying, etc.

Those things exist, and I exist to "absorb" them so that they will stop perpetuating and come to an end.

Attack me all you'd like, but it doesn't do anything but make you look like a traitor of your own blood, your own brother.

Traitor to my own blood? How's that? I'm A+. Should I claim to be O- or AB? Am I not allowing it to coagulate properly? Please explain, because if there's one thing I know, I don't want to piss off my own blood, otherwise it'll shut off oxygen flow to my brain like yours did.
And my brothers? Don't get me started on them! One's a convicted felon, the other is an alcoholic.
Wait a minute! Tim, is that you?
__________________
"JimBenArm is right" Hokulele Mom
JimBenArm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd February 2011, 07:04 AM   #40
grndslm
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 243
I'm starting to see why David Icke believes in reptilian peoples, now.

Some people really are that cold-blooded.
grndslm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:39 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.