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View Poll Results: The raid was...
Absolutely a good thing - no question 127 77.44%
An outrage, a travesty - what about Magna Carta? Did she die in vain? 4 2.44%
I'll wait before I make a judgement thank you. 27 16.46%
Mar-X-Lago! 6 3.66%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21st September 2022, 02:13 AM   #2801
gypsyjackson
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

Firstly, if The Fat Orange Turd has admitted to writing on classified documents, then he has just admitted to another crime - defacing classified records.
Writing on classified documents is a crime in the US? Christ, I write on classified documents almost every day in my job. Would be a lot harder to do my job if I couldn’t.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:36 AM   #2802
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
Writing on classified documents is a crime in the US? Christ, I write on classified documents almost every day in my job. Would be a lot harder to do my job if I couldn’t.
was it Trump's job after Jan 20th ?
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:27 AM   #2803
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Originally Posted by smartcooky
Firstly, if The Fat Orange Turd former President Trump has admitted to writing on classified documents, then he has just admitted to another crime - defacing classified records.

Wow, that sounds really serious. The former President wrote some notes on printed documents supplied to him, and presumably while in office? I can only imagine how a harsh of a sentence that might bring.
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:43 AM   #2804
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
Writing on classified documents is a crime in the US? Christ, I write on classified documents almost every day in my job. Would be a lot harder to do my job if I couldn’t.
As I have explained earlier in this thread (Post1138), I used to hold a security clearance to deal with Top Secret documents. These were US Navy documents, so we had to adhere to their rules for handling and using them.

It was absolutely forbidden, and a chargeable office, to deface these documents in any way, including removing pages or writing on them. Sometimes we had to make handwritten notes that needed to stay with a document or a page of a maintenance manual, but theses notes were always written on official notepaper and were attached to the relevant document with a staple or a paper clip. If we wanted to make a permanent change such as when a piece of equipment might be modified or a procedure amended, then we had to do that with an application, "through channels" up the chain of command.
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:45 AM   #2805
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Wow, that sounds really serious. The former President wrote some notes on printed documents supplied to him, and presumably while in office? I can only imagine how a harsh of a sentence that might bring.
It's worse that what HRC did.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:05 AM   #2806
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The Hill published a truly frightening scenario. There is neither a constitutional nor a legal requirement for the Speaker of the House to be a member of the House of Representatives. Therefore, if the Republicans win control of the House in the midterm elections, they could install Trump as Speaker of the House!

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-as-you-think/
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:12 AM   #2807
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
The Hill published a truly frightening scenario. There is neither a constitutional nor a legal requirement for the Speaker of the House to be a member of the House of Representatives. Therefore, if the Republicans win control of the House in the midterm elections, they could install Trump as Speaker of the House!

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-as-you-think/
Let it happen, oh please let it happen
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:14 AM   #2808
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Let it happen, oh please let it happen
absolutely.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:16 AM   #2809
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
The Hill published a truly frightening scenario. There is neither a constitutional nor a legal requirement for the Speaker of the House to be a member of the House of Representatives. Therefore, if the Republicans win control of the House in the midterm elections, they could install Trump as Speaker of the House!

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...-as-you-think/
That dumb ass ******** has been proposed before.

Step one: Make Trump speaker of the House.

Step two: Successfully impeach and remove both Biden and Harris.

Step three: Trump is back in control!

Of course step two is a pretty high hurdle to clear, even if they pull off step one.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:39 AM   #2810
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The Senate Just passed a Resolution Condemning Trump for calling for Violence against the FBI.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:41 AM   #2811
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It is a joke. Borowitz is a satirist. But it's perfectly plausible that whack-a-doodle Trump could actually say that.
Phew. I think.

Aka, "Many a true word is said in jest".
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:57 AM   #2812
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The Senate Just passed a Resolution Condemning Trump for calling for Violence against the FBI.
Here's a link to the story...

https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/09-20-2022/
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:04 AM   #2813
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The Senate passed a resolution yesterday condemning the barrage of threats against the FBI in the wake of the Mar-a-Lago raid. I don't think the resolution actually "condemned" trump though he was prominently mentioned on the floor of the Senate.
Quote:
"I have repeatedly made clear that violence against law enforcement is never -- never -- acceptable, no matter what ideology motivates it," said Dick Durbin, the Democratic chairman of the powerful judiciary committee. "But here is the reality: in the past month, following the FBI's execution of a search warrant at Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort, the FBI has faced a flood of threats against its employees and its facilities -- and these threats have been egged on by the former president and his allies."

The FBI and the Department of Homeland Security last month detailed an increase in threats and acts of violence against federal law enforcement officials following the August 8 search. Durbin said he was unable to share specifics from a briefing the agencies gave senators behind closed doors last week but he told colleagues on the Senate floor the escalation was "shocking." Link to Yahoo news report

Instead of using caution, trump has vilified the FBI in the crudest of terms. In his recent rally in Pennsylvania trump said: "The FBI and the justice department have become vicious monsters, controlled by radical-left scoundrels, lawyers and the media, who tell them what to do." I'm once again reminded of the words of another GOP president, George H. W. Bush. President Bush said that presidents must be careful what they say and how they say it because, "You never know who may be listening."

But unlike trump, Bush was a decent and responsible man.
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:22 AM   #2814
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Full text of the resolution.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:18 AM   #2815
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Let it happen, oh please let it happen
Trump wouldn't accept the job. It would mean he would actually have to do work.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:30 AM   #2816
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The Senate passed a resolution yesterday condemning the barrage of threats against the FBI in the wake of the Mar-a-Lago raid. I don't think the resolution actually "condemned" trump though he was prominently mentioned on the floor of the Senate.
Right. There's no way a resolution condemning Trump could have passed unanimously in the Senate.

The Senate unanimously agrees that violence and threats against the FBI are bad. Now, ask them if they agree that Trump's comments amount to threats against the FBI...
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:02 AM   #2817
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
As I have explained earlier in this thread (Post1138), I used to hold a security clearance to deal with Top Secret documents. These were US Navy documents, so we had to adhere to their rules for handling and using them.

It was absolutely forbidden, and a chargeable office, to deface these documents in any way, including removing pages or writing on them. Sometimes we had to make handwritten notes that needed to stay with a document or a page of a maintenance manual, but theses notes were always written on official notepaper and were attached to the relevant document with a staple or a paper clip. If we wanted to make a permanent change such as when a piece of equipment might be modified or a procedure amended, then we had to do that with an application, "through channels" up the chain of command.
Thanks - that’s really interesting. A lot tougher than our system.
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:21 AM   #2818
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
That's thinking inside the court only. These people are not without wild imagination.

As I said above, they could also use the "all our lawyers got leprosy overnight and can't attend court" tactic. Or somebody had a mental breakdown and can't represent Donny and it will take time to adjust the legal team. Or the whole team suddenly can't speak English and needs translators found. Or whatever, something non-judicial that takes up time.
Could they simply deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired (who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired [who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed...])?
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:24 AM   #2819
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
Could they simply deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired (who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired [who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed...])?
Time for Democratic public defenders to be appointed.

I have heartburn with this whole process. Why should these lawyers be given clearance during an investigation? Why don't they have to wait like other defendant lawyers until charges are filed?
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:37 AM   #2820
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Originally Posted by gypsyjackson View Post
Thanks - that’s really interesting. A lot tougher than our system.
I'm only guessing here, but my guess is your system isn't quite as bloated as ours is in the US.
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Old 21st September 2022, 11:44 AM   #2821
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If you ran that resolution through the House, at least half the GQP members would vote against it.
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Old 21st September 2022, 11:56 AM   #2822
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
Could they simply deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired (who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed while additional lawyers are hired [who will also deliberately flunk the security clearance process, requiring the proceedings to be delayed...])?
I would not be the least bit surprised.
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:10 PM   #2823
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Appeals court has ruled that DOJ can resume viewing seized documents:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/appeal...ents-1.6590948

(a one sentence article...)
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:16 PM   #2824
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A little more:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/polit...nts/index.html

And the ruling:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/21/polit...ago/index.html
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:59 PM   #2825
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
They managed to use a phenomenally large amount of verbiage to do nothing more than point out the obvious.
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:59 PM   #2826
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So the Special Master is just left to pick out Trump's socks and underwear from the boxes? And then they are done.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:27 PM   #2827
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Seems like the whole gambit to delay has completely fallen apart.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:31 PM   #2828
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Originally Posted by grmcdorman View Post
Appeals court has ruled that DOJ can resume viewing seized documents:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/appeal...ents-1.6590948

(a one sentence article...)
The article says this:
Quote:
Trump's lawyers could potentially ask the U.S. Supreme Court, whose 6-3 conservative majority includes three justices appointed by him, to intervene in the matter.
Betting they will. Spin this out as long as they can.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:36 PM   #2829
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The article says this:

Betting they will. Spin this out as long as they can.
The appeals court had Trump with a 2-to-1 majority. The decision was, nonetheless, unanimous.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:40 PM   #2830
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
So the Special Master is just left to pick out Trump's socks and underwear from the boxes? And then they are done.
What a job...

I imagine everyone would be glad to return his assorted crap.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:51 PM   #2831
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The interesting aspect of the ruling is that it....basically agrees with everything legal analysts have been saying all along.

It's almost like they are based on the same principles, and Cannon used something different.

And yes, two of the three judged were Trump appointed
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:01 PM   #2832
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The article says this:

Quote:
Trump's lawyers could potentially ask the U.S. Supreme Court, whose 6-3 conservative majority includes three justices appointed by him, to intervene in the matter.
Betting they will. Spin this out as long as they can.
Have to say I'm worried about the Supreme Court too, but is it a rational worry? The current (at least for the Justices to be concerned about) Supreme Court didn't even take up his election lawsuits.

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Old 21st September 2022, 07:08 PM   #2833
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The Associated Press reports:
Quote:
In a stark repudiation of Donald Trump's legal arguments, a federal appeals court on Wednesday permitted the Justice Department to resume its use of classified records seized from the former president's Florida estate as part of its ongoing criminal investigation. The ruling from a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit amounts to an overwhelming victory for the Justice Department, clearing the way for investigators to continue scrutinizing the documents as they consider whether to bring criminal charges over the storage of of top-secret records at Mar-a-Lago after Trump left the White House. In lifting a hold on a core aspect of the department's probe, the court removed an obstacle that could have delayed the investigation by weeks, if not months.

The appeals court also pointedly noted that Trump had presented no evidence that he had declassified the sensitive records, as he has repeatedly maintained, and rejected the possibility that Trump could have an “individual interest in or need for” the roughly 100 documents with classification markings that were seized by the FBI in its Aug. 8 search of the Palm Beach property. AP News link
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:36 PM   #2834
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The Associated Press reports:

Quote:
In a stark repudiation of Donald Trump's legal arguments, a federal appeals court on Wednesday permitted the Justice Department to resume its use of classified records seized from the former president's Florida estate as part of its ongoing criminal investigation....
Its also bloody nose for corrupt Trump lackey, judge Aileen Cannon.

Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And yes, two of the three judges were Trump appointed
I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the room when The Fat Orange Turd found out...

WHY ARE THE JUDGES I APPOINTED NOT LOYAL TO ME !?

Actually on second thought, I might not want to be a fly on the wall if The Fat Orange Turd still eating his quarter pounders with extra cheese!
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Old 22nd September 2022, 04:51 AM   #2835
newyorkguy
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In a headline story, the UK newspaper Guardian quotes political pundit Allan Lichtman as saying trump's legal woes may have reached critical mass.

Quote:
Donald Trump’s legal perils have become insurmountable and could snuff out the former US president’s hopes of an election-winning comeback, according to political analysts and legal experts.

“He’s done,” said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University, in Washington, who has accurately predicted every presidential election since 1984. “He’s got too many burdens, too much baggage to be able to run again even presuming he escapes jail, he escapes bankruptcy. I’m not sure he’s going to escape jail.” Guardian news link
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Old 22nd September 2022, 04:59 AM   #2836
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
In a headline story, the UK newspaper Guardian quotes political pundit Allan Lichtman as saying trump's legal woes may have reached critical mass.

I would agree that Trump is done, politically. But I will be very, very surprised if he gets any jail time. He is 76 years old, now. And a former President. And certainly any legal process is likely to be quite protracted. They are not going to sentence him to die in jail.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 05:00 AM   #2837
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Looks like there is a tie-in between the Mar-a-Lardo search warrant and Tish James' investigation in New York.

From Tish James' press conference
... even after almost two years of litigation it appears that it may still be the case that not all responsive documents were produced. Among other things, in litigation over a search warrant executed at Mar-A-Lago on August 8 2022, the United States district court for the Middle District of Florida noted that "the seized materials include correspondence related to taxes and accounting information". Documents concerning taxes and accounting information would appear to be responsive to the (New York) Office of Attorney General subpoenas but no such documents for Mr Trump were produced by counsel for Mr Trump, Alina Haba despite a representation by that Council, Alina Haba that "I diligently searched each and every room of respondents private residence located at Mar-A-Lago including all desks drawers night-stands dressers closets etc. I was unable to locate any documents responsive to the subpoena that have not already been produced to the OAG by the Trump Organization"
So it appears that The Fat Orange Turd was hiding documents he was subpoenaed to turn over to the NY AG among the classified documents he stole and took to Mar-a-Lardo when he left office.

Well, he's now just let himself in for another obstruction charge, this time from New York. There's more to the story, so I'll let Ben Meiselas from "Meidas Touch" explain it all much better than I can...

Watch time 8 minutes

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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:00 AM   #2838
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Looks like there is a tie-in between the Mar-a-Lardo search warrant and Tish James' investigation in New York.

From Tish James' press conference
... even after almost two years of litigation it appears that it may still be the case that not all responsive documents were produced. Among other things, in litigation over a search warrant executed at Mar-A-Lago on August 8 2022, the United States district court for the Middle District of Florida noted that "the seized materials include correspondence related to taxes and accounting information". Documents concerning taxes and accounting information would appear to be responsive to the (New York) Office of Attorney General subpoenas but no such documents for Mr Trump were produced by counsel for Mr Trump, Alina Haba despite a representation by that Council, Alina Haba that "I diligently searched each and every room of respondents private residence located at Mar-A-Lago including all desks drawers night-stands dressers closets etc. I was unable to locate any documents responsive to the subpoena that have not already been produced to the OAG by the Trump Organization"
So it appears that The Fat Orange Turd was hiding documents he was subpoenaed to turn over to the NY AG among the classified documents he stole and took to Mar-a-Lardo when he left office.

Well, he's now just let himself in for another obstruction charge, this time from New York. There's more to the story, so I'll let Ben Meiselas from "Meidas Touch" explain it all much better than I can...

Watch time 8 minutes

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
If that is true it makes the insistence on the "special master" make more sense than it only being a delaying tactic.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:09 AM   #2839
plague311
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If that is true it makes the insistence on the "special master" make more sense than it only being a delaying tactic.
Would those documents still be considered privileged or would they get turned over to the NY AG? I'm not overly familiar with what a Special Master's requirements would be.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 06:30 AM   #2840
TellyKNeasuss
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I would agree that Trump is done, politically. But I will be very, very surprised if he gets any jail time. He is 76 years old, now. And a former President. And certainly any legal process is likely to be quite protracted. They are not going to sentence him to die in jail.
The logistics of putting a former president in jail would be challenging. For example, there would have to be Secret Service agents in jail with him. Home detention is a possibility, but a large fine (can the Save America PAC pay his fine?) and probation is the most that I would expect (getting a group of 12 random people who will all agree to convict Trump would also be challenging no matter how strong the evidence is).

Then again, I never thought that we would reach the point at which there is actually a plausible chance that Trump will be charged with felony offenses; I had thought that Barr's quashing of a strong obstruction of justice case against Trump ended the possibility of Trump being in serious legal jeopardy.
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