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Tags putin , russia , Russia-Ukraine war , ukraine , Zelensky

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Old 2nd September 2022, 03:47 AM   #1
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The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 5

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That dynamic isn't simply the result of greedy oligarchs, though. It's a dynamic referred to as "Dutch disease" where a natural resource boom almost guarantees a manufacturing contraction. Hard to avoid even without greed and corruption.



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Funnily enough, Australia has experienced exactly that by having a capitalist attitude to mining, but Norway with a Socialist policy has avoided it.

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Old 2nd September 2022, 09:58 AM   #2
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Russian Politician Wants to Add up to Half a Million Troops in Ukraine

I mean, we all want a lot of things!

There seems to be genuine political debate in Moscow! I've seen a couple of different sides emerge. One is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians.' The other is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians much much faster!' Some commentators feel there should be mass mobilization, and some have gone so far as to ape Putin - essentially, why not nuclear armageddon, if Russia isn't important?

All of this over 20% of Ukraine's land mass! Are they deluded, or do they just have no shame?
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Old 2nd September 2022, 10:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
Russian Politician Wants to Add up to Half a Million Troops in Ukraine

I mean, we all want a lot of things!

There seems to be genuine political debate in Moscow! I've seen a couple of different sides emerge. One is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians.' The other is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians much much faster!' Some commentators feel there should be mass mobilization, and some have gone so far as to ape Putin - essentially, why not nuclear armageddon, if Russia isn't important?

All of this over 20% of Ukraine's land mass! Are they deluded, or do they just have no shame?
Fear? They don't want to fall out of any buildings.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 10:35 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
Are they deluded, or do they just have no shame?
"Or?"
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Old 2nd September 2022, 10:59 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
Russian Politician Wants to Add up to Half a Million Troops in Ukraine

I mean, we all want a lot of things!

There seems to be genuine political debate in Moscow! I've seen a couple of different sides emerge. One is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians.' The other is that 'we should be killing Ukrainians much much faster!' Some commentators feel there should be mass mobilization, and some have gone so far as to ape Putin - essentially, why not nuclear armageddon, if Russia isn't important?

All of this over 20% of Ukraine's land mass! Are they deluded, or do they just have no shame?
Good luck recruiting that many from the draft

Good luck them being effective, especially because there's no effective non commissioned officer cadre in the Russian Army.

Then again, killing that many new recruits will take a long time and may sicken experienced hands.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 12:05 PM   #6
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The tale tells that when Stalin finished a speech, the Party bigshots leaped up clapping wildly -- and then none of them dared to be the first to stop.

Those were simpler times. Now any conspicuous Russian must laud and applaud, and appear on line disgorging outrageous opinions that demonstrate his fanaticism for the Putler Party's doctrine.

As noted above, it's the only healthy thing to do.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 02:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Good luck recruiting that many from the draft

Good luck them being effective, especially because there's no effective non commissioned officer cadre in the Russian Army.

Then again, killing that many new recruits will take a long time and may sicken experienced hands.

Plus, as we've discussed, there's the fact that they've stripped a lot of their training units.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 04:09 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Plus, as we've discussed, there's the fact that they've stripped a lot of their training units.
Yes, and, it turns out even they weren't all that good.

Yes, and...
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Old 2nd September 2022, 05:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Good luck recruiting that many from the draft

Good luck them being effective, especially because there's no effective non commissioned officer cadre in the Russian Army.

Then again, killing that many new recruits will take a long time and may sicken experienced hands.
And that is a major reason for a lot of the Russian Army's problems.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 05:22 PM   #10
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And it's now ecomomic war between Russia and the West with the lNord Strom shutoff.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 10:18 PM   #11
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If true... Uh huh.

Quote:
Russian propagandist showing the IAEA inspectors how "Ukrainian" shells make miraculous U-turns.
Ukrainian wunderwaffe are being used to attack the nuclear power plant so that it just looks like the Russians attacking it, eh?
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Old 3rd September 2022, 02:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
If true... Uh huh.



Ukrainian wunderwaffe are being used to attack the nuclear power plant so that it just looks like the Russians attacking it, eh?
Adds a whole new meaning to the term "counter-offensive".
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Old 3rd September 2022, 02:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And it's now ecomomic war between Russia and the West with the lNord Strom shutoff.
If the West can make it through the winter then I think Russia will rue switching off Nordstream.

Weaning Europe off Russian gas and accelerating the switch to renewables will be a good thing viewed in retrospect IMO.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 03:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If the West can make it through the winter then I think Russia will rue switching off Nordstream.

Weaning Europe off Russian gas and accelerating the switch to renewables will be a good thing viewed in retrospect IMO.
This winter will be rough. I think you're right about accelerating the switch to renewable energy. Hydrogen is really exciting and the pace of developing is shifting into high gear. Even better news, India is pushing conversion to eliminate energy imports.

Russia doesn't understand that their energy customers aren't coming back.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 05:10 AM   #15
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Unfortunately, there are two big problems with renewables. The first is the issue of intermittency (Germany is one of the least sunny and least windy countries in Europe), and the second is a serious shortage of many of the materials required for renewable energy generation and storage. This shortage is aggravated by the fact that a lot of those materials are controlled by China and other countries hostile to the West.

That said, there's no reason that Russian gas and oil can't be completely and permanently replaced by other energy sources, including more renewables where feasible. But realistically, nuclear and natural gas (and at least some oil) are going to have to be part of that replacement for the foreseeable future.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 05:34 AM   #16
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An excellent article on "The Saker" by someone calling themselves "Asia Teacher":

Western Propaganda and its Aftermath

Originally Posted by Asia Teacher
[...] The problem with current western propaganda is that it relies on sensationalism and each manufactured story must outdo the last to retain its WOW effect. In today’s world, neighbors Poland and Slovakia propose building an oil “peace pipeline” as opposed to what Polish President Morawiecki refers to as the German Nordstream “war pipeline.” Meanwhile, debate continues to rage over why Russia is shelling itself in the Zaporizhzia nuclear power plant with American made missiles and fragments of US HIMARS missiles found in Yelenovka, where 57 Azov prisoners died and 130 were wounded whilst giving testimony for the upcoming War Crimes trials. Getting rid of the evidence?

Who will western politicians blame if the weapons they’re sending to the Ukraine are responsible for another Chernobyl type incident as inspectors from the International Atomic Energy Agency arrive at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and before entering suggest the facility be handed back to the Ukrainian authorities. Am I the only one aghast at the thought of a nuclear plant in the hands of the Ukraine armed forces which number Neo-Nazi militia battalions in their ranks?

That the Ukraine is not about freedom and democracy but Russian regime change isn’t a well-kept secret. A year before the 2014 overthrow of Yanukovych, Carl Gershman, Director of US NGO National Endowment for Democracy (NED) had already stated: “Ukraine is the biggest prize … If it could be pulled away from Russia and into the West, Putin may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself.” More recently, on the first of March 1st 2022, a spokesman for the British Prime Minister said, “but the measures [sanctions] we are introducing, that large parts of the world are introducing, are to bring down the Putin regime.” Or as Bruno Le Maire, French Minister of the Economy and Finance stated, “We are going to wage a total economic and financial war on Russia.”

Conversely, the opposite has happened. At the beginning of the intervention the ruble stood at 85 to the dollar. Yet today it’s 61.35; in other words, the ruble is actually strengthening against the dollar. No matter the amount or severity of sanctions, major oil producers, despite what any other calamities befall them, do not go bankrupt.

Yet six months into the incursion, the adverse effects of sanctions on energy and industrial fertilizers are becoming all too visible in the west. Soaring inflation and food prices, record bankruptcies and huge energy price increases as millions of Ukrainian immigrants flood into an already weakened and recession hit Western Europe. Who will blink first? [...]
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Unfortunately, there are two big problems with renewables. The first is the issue of intermittency (Germany is one of the least sunny and least windy countries in Europe), and the second is a serious shortage of many of the materials required for renewable energy generation and storage. This shortage is aggravated by the fact that a lot of those materials are controlled by China and other countries hostile to the West.

That said, there's no reason that Russian gas and oil can't be completely and permanently replaced by other energy sources, including more renewables where feasible. But realistically, nuclear and natural gas (and at least some oil) are going to have to be part of that replacement for the foreseeable future.

You are right, in Germany we by now have the word "Dunkelflaute", which is when there is no sun and no wind. Then we buy energy from the nuclear plants in France. And if there is a lot of sun and wind, we literally pay France for taking our "renewable energy" because there is too much of it around.

It's complete madness, done by incompetent ideologues. I don't know if you've heard about the "9€-Ticket" that just ran out but "gifted" us across the last three months. For me, who has no car but uses public transportation almost daily, it was financially nice because I could ride more than with my usual ticket for a sixth of the price I normally pay. But in practice it was horror, because of course the infrastructure for all the additional users of public transportation was not there, and this was entirely predictable even if people didn't study infrastructural planning like I did. I rode the S-Bahn (the city train) instead of entering any regional trains which are usually faster but were full to the roof and always late. I'm happy that I have to pay six-times more now again because I prefer a ride in reasonable circumstances.

It is the work of incompetent ideologues and I don't like that people like that "rule" me.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:18 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
An excellent article on "The Saker" by someone calling themselves "Asia Teacher":

Western Propaganda and its Aftermath
Your source is an idiot. Yes, the rubble didn’t collapse. But the measures Russia took to keep it propped up come at a cost. Their foreign currency reserves are seriously depleted, and by preventing foreigners from selling assets, they’ve guaranteed that they will not get foreign investment for years if not decades. Russia’s economy is in deep trouble, and the author is in deep denial.

And given what we already saw of Russian troops in the Red Forest, how on earth are they more comfortable with Russian soldiers occupying a nuclear power plant? That’s shoe-on-head levels of retarded.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:21 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
An excellent article on "The Saker" by someone calling themselves "Asia Teacher":

Western Propaganda and its Aftermath
An even more excellent article from CNN, providing a detailed takedown of Russian lies about the incident at the Olenivka prison.
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/...ack/index.html
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:33 AM   #20
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And there are literally "politicians" with five digit salaries telling us that the wussy is a good invention and we shouldn't shower too much, with propaganda posters telling us where to wash - the axles, the crotch and between the butt-cheeks. This is completely insane and I could earn a lot more money if I wanted to, but many people can't. And why, because these clowns can't accept that Russia has self-interest too? Sorry, I'm angry.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:53 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Your source is an idiot. Yes, the rubble didn’t collapse. But the measures Russia took to keep it propped up come at a cost. Their foreign currency reserves are seriously depleted, and by preventing foreigners from selling assets, they’ve guaranteed that they will not get foreign investment for years if not decades. Russia’s economy is in deep trouble, and the author is in deep denial.

Yes, the "rubble" didn't collapse and yes, the Russian foreign reserves declined. The latter is because "the West" stole them. But they don't need them. Here is what a high-ranking Chinese government official posted - the "non-red" countries are those who didn't participate in anti-Russia sanctions. The rest is the "international community".




None of Asia except the colony of Japan, none of Africa, none of South America.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:20 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

None of Asia except the colony of Japan,
And Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea- the latter is shown on the map you linked to.


Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
none of Africa,
True.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
none of South America.
Apart from Belize.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:27 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
None of Asia except the colony of Japan, none of Africa, none of South America.
Poor South Korea, relegated to being part of "the colony of Japan".
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:34 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Poor South Korea, relegated to being part of "the colony of Japan".

i thought that was the "country" of Taiwan. My bad. Honorable mentioning to South Koreans (who should be ashamed of their colony status as well). We could subtract countries like Hungary from the red area but I guess the point is abundantly clear.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:40 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Yes, the "rubble" didn't collapse and yes, the Russian foreign reserves declined. The latter is because "the West" stole them.
How did the West manage to steal Russia's foreign currency reserves?

Quote:
But they don't need them. Here is what a high-ranking Chinese government official posted - the "non-red" countries are those who didn't participate in anti-Russia sanctions. The rest is the "international community".

https://i.imgur.com/lT4WySR.jpg


None of Asia except the colony of Japan, none of Africa, none of South America.
I think, if you want to be taken seriously, you should avoid obvious ******** like that.

As for the picture, well it's quite pretty but I would argue that measuring these things by geography is misleading. The countries against Russia includes all of the G7 countries and probably more than half of the World's GDP. The countries for Russia include Russia and Belarus (I think). Everybody else is pretty much keeping out of it.

You can argue about the propaganda all you like, but the bottom line is that Russia invaded a sovereign state at the least for a land grab but probably to subjugate it. The Russians are unambiguously the bad guys here.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:40 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Yes, the "rubble" didn't collapse and yes, the Russian foreign reserves declined. The latter is because "the West" stole them. But they don't need them. Here is what a high-ranking Chinese government official posted - the "non-red" countries are those who didn't participate in anti-Russia sanctions. The rest is the "international community".

https://i.imgur.com/lT4WySR.jpg


None of Asia except the colony of Japan, none of Africa, none of South America.
No one stole from Russia. Russia stole territory from Ukraine and damaged their infrastructure. Russia should pay for the damage they did to Ukraine and taking their reserves is a good way to do it. It's not as if Ukraine can wait for the enemy to do the right thing on their own.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:44 AM   #27
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OECD healthcare spending
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Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:44 AM   #28
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possibly related

https://www.rferl.org/a/chechnya-kad.../32017103.html

Quote:
Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of Russia’s Chechnya region, said on Telegram on September 3 that he plans to take an “indefinite and long” break from his post.

Kadyrov, 45, has ruled Chechnya with an iron fist since 2007 and is the longest-serving leader of a Russian region.

“I realized that I have been sitting in my position for a long time,” he wrote. “I think my time has come [to leave power]."
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Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:51 AM   #29
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Ukraine has way better propaganda.[twitter]
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Old 3rd September 2022, 08:02 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Yeah, they do. I'm not so sure that the Shiba Inu warriors should be treated as actually Ukrainian, though, so much as allies of Ukraine.

The Ukrainian Tractor Legion, on the other hand...
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Old 3rd September 2022, 08:06 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
How did the West manage to steal Russia's foreign currency reserves?

It just confiscated them because it owns the current financial system.

Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
I think, if you want to be taken seriously, you should avoid obvious ******** like that.

As for the picture, well it's quite pretty but I would argue that measuring these things by geography is misleading. The countries against Russia includes all of the G7 countries and probably more than half of the World's GDP. The countries for Russia include Russia and Belarus (I think). Everybody else is pretty much keeping out of it.

You can argue about the propaganda all you like, but the bottom line is that Russia invaded a sovereign state at the least for a land grab but probably to subjugate it. The Russians are unambiguously the bad guys here.

For the record and before someone accuses me of hypocrisy (if it hasn't already happened), I consider my own country, Germany, a colony of the Empire of Lies as well, and I would like it to be really sovereign.

The "G7 countries" have a tiny fraction of the population on this planet, and times when countries like Canada or Italy have been "great" in that sense are long gone, it only is a measurement of the overrated Dollar and its ugly child, the Euro.

And you really should pay attention to what the Chinese are pulling out these days, not only that guy who posted the map and is something like the foreign minister or his second man in line of a country that has more people than the whole of the "red area" alone.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 08:14 AM   #32
Lord Emsworth
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Apart from Belize.
And France.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 08:53 AM   #33
jeremyp
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It just confiscated them because it owns the current financial system.
Only those reserves outside of Russia and only in response to Russia stealing territory from Ukraine.

Quote:
For the record and before someone accuses me of hypocrisy (if it hasn't already happened), I consider my own country, Germany, a colony of the Empire of Lies as well, and I would like it to be really sovereign.
Germany is not and never has been a colony of anywhere unless you count East Germany as a client state of the USSR.
Quote:
The "G7 countries" have a tiny fraction of the population on this planet
Not as tiny as the fraction of the population that Russia and Belarus has.

Quote:
and times when countries like Canada or Italy have been "great" in that sense are long gone, it only is a measurement of the overrated Dollar and its ugly child, the Euro.
Nobody is talking about past greatness. Of course, if Russia had been as prepared to relinquish past greatness as much as the former European colonial powers, it wouldn't now be in a losing war with Ukraine.

Quote:
And you really should pay attention to what the Chinese are pulling out these days, not only that guy who posted the map and is something like the foreign minister or his second man in line of a country that has more people than the whole of the "red area" alone.
But they are not actively helping Russia's war effort.

I reiterate: the Russians are definitely the bad guys in this war and you just look bad by supporting them.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 08:55 AM   #34
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Well of course the (ew!) West stole Russia's money! It was easy. All those gas pipelines are still in place. Do you think a closed faucet will stop a (yuck!) capitalist greedhead when he's after poor Mr. Puddin's wealth? They came right through the tunnels and into the Bank of All the Russias! Yes! Soros's Morlocks, crawly mole-men with bags printed all over in dollar signs & secret bar code instructions!

Don't you see the fiendish complexity if it all? Or fiendish simplicity? Some damn thing like that.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:04 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
Only those reserves outside of Russia and only in response to Russia stealing territory from Ukraine.

You mean they only grabbed what they could get their hands on? Shocking. Sorry, won't reply to the rest of your post. If you can't see that China actively helps Russia to forge a multipolar world order, there is no point.

Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth View Post
And France.

France is in South America now? Now there's some good news.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:14 AM   #36
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Russia has published another batch of slides about the US Biolabs in the Ukraine (remember, this was the first they did, secure the nuclear plants and the biolabs) and the Ministry of Defense issued the following text:

Originally Posted by Mod Russia English language Telegram channel
Briefing on the upcoming consultative meeting of the BTWC member States

(September 5-9, 2022, Switzerland, Geneva)September 03, 2022

On the initiative of the Russian Federation, consultative meeting of the member States of the Convention on the Prohibition of Biological and Toxin Weapons will be hosted in the upcoming week regarding non-compliance with the obligations of the USA and Ukraine within the abovementioned international treaty. The event will include presentation of documentary evidence of the violation of the articles I and IV within the convention on their part.

We want the organisations responsible for compliance with the Convention and the international community to pay their attention to various biological hazards.

Firstly, there are currently over 50 Pentagon-controlled biological laboratories modernised with its funds and located in close proximity to the borders of the Russian Federation. In total, according to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China, the U.S. Defence Department controls 336 biolaboratories in 30 countries.

Their activities are supplemented by deterioration of the epidemiological situation regarding to the most dangerous and economically significant infections, as well as by appearance of contagious diseases untypical for a certain region.

Since 2010, the territories of the Russian Federation bordering Ukraine have recorded an increase in the incidence of brucellosis, Congo-Crimean fever, West Nile fever and African swine fever, as well as an uncharacteristic expansion of vector ranges.

The Russian Federation, as a responsible party to the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC), is fully aware of the full range of threats associated with the possible consequences of its violation during the works performed in Ukrainian biolaboratories. [...]
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:27 AM   #37
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So much for the plague

Now back to the war. We read about various weapons being donated (or sold on credit? dunno) to Ukraine, often in small batches. How are the Ukrainians managing this heterogenous assembly of equipment? No doubt it's welcome, but it must be logistically complicated. Shades of Republican Spain!

Anybody got links to knowledgeable sources that keep up with the materiel side of the war?
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:39 AM   #38
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Hey CE, did you hear the joke about the Russian soldier? He had just looted a Ukrainian pensioner's house and was one his way to rape some girls when a US supplied HIMARS rocket detonated near him. It blew his entire left side off. When he was taken to the hospital the Russian doctor called his parents and told them not to worry because he was "all right".
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:41 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It just confiscated them because it owns the current financial system.

G7 countries have financial systems. It's hardly their fault Russia isn't trustworthy enough to build one of it's own and has to depend on the ones other countries have built.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 09:44 AM   #40
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Now back to the war. We read about various weapons being donated (or sold on credit? dunno) to Ukraine, often in small batches. How are the Ukrainians managing this heterogenous assembly of equipment? No doubt it's welcome, but it must be logistically complicated. Shades of Republican Spain!

Anybody got links to knowledgeable sources that keep up with the materiel side of the war?

You can close your eyes to the attempted or executed crimes against humanity all you want, won't change the facts. You can also read the daily briefing at the known place. Here is the first half of the first of two posts today:

Originally Posted by MoD Russia English language Telegram channel
Kiev regime continued its unsuccessful attempts to consolidate at several areas towards Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction.

◽️ The enemy has lost 23 tanks, 27 infantry combat vehicles, 14 armoured combat vehicles of other types, 9 pick-ups with large-calibre machine guns and over 230 servicemen.

◽️ Moreover, fighter aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces has shot down 2 Ukrainian Su-25 assault fighters near Sergeyevka (Kherson region), as well as 1 MiG-29 of Ukrainian Air Force converted for launching HARM anti-radar missiles near Novosyolovka (Dnepropetrovsk region).

◽️ High losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) at Nikolayev-Krivoy Rog direction have led to a severe lack of beds, medication and blood supplies in healthcare establishments of Nikolayev and Nikolayev region.

◽️ To detect and detain the increased number of deserters, more military patrols were redeployed to Nikolayev and additional posts were deployed at the approaches to the city. [...]

That's the first half of the first half of the proverbial "clobbing list". It is senseless cannon fodder feeding as the clown in Kiev and his sidekicks are not allowed to negotiate because of their "Western" overlords. These are people dragged from the streets dying every day, not professional soldiers. I thought you love "the Ukrainians" so much?
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