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Tags putin , russia , Russia-Ukraine war , ukraine , Zelensky

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Old 6th September 2022, 01:20 AM   #161
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
I know Berlin and London, even lived there for a while, it´s not comparable. In Russia most public facing officials and workers lack any type of courtesy, everyone seems depressed and nasty. You need bribes to even get medical attention. Water that comes out of faucets is undrinkable in many cities. Pollution. Children left to die of neglect in orphanages, etc, etc. Not comparable at all. I´m not going to fund you a trip there. I already funded myself for a trip to the US this summer, which is much less corrupt and ****** and makes for a nice place for a holiday. Most people are kind and nice to you there. Travelling really makes one get a feeling of what places really are like, to compare with what you may be reading online, which could be propaganda and making you believe a skewed version of reality.

So yes, Europe and the US are corrupt too, but that doesn´t mean Russia´s much worse corruption has to be dismissed.

There is corruption everywhere, but there are levels and extents of corruption. My assumption here is that either CE has not travelled widely in the world, or he has and is deliberately downplaying the extent of corruption elsewhere, and exaggerating that to be found in London.
CE: have you visited Saudi Arabia, China or Vietnam? What was your impression of the level and extent of corruption in those countries and how does it compare with your perception (or claim) or corruption in London?
Then we can draw some meaningful conclusions about your assessment of corruption in Russia.
Useful source of comparison:
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
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Old 6th September 2022, 01:37 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...37b6b3871474f5

The unsuccessful offensive also resulted in the destruction of an FSB base in Kherson. Nope, no Ukrainian military successes happening here. No sireeee. Just your normal accidental explosive detonations on ferries, bridges and FSB offices.
Russian cigarette ends are absolutely lethal. The special military operation would be going much smoother if people stopped dropping them into ships' magazines and ammunition dumps...

... tank turrets, helicopter and fighter cockpits, mobile artillery, barracks, fuel dumps, bridges, etc
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Old 6th September 2022, 01:45 AM   #163
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...5649822219f8e3

The Orcs have 15000 troops essentially cut off on the north and west sides of the river in Kherson. Bagging them would be a huge win and change the nature of the war completely. I suspect such a one-sided victory in Kherson would cause a mass exodus of Orcs and Ukrainian turncoats from occupied Crimea.
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Old 6th September 2022, 01:50 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...5649822219f8e3

The Orcs have 15000 troops essentially cut off on the north and west sides of the river in Kherson. Bagging them would be a huge win and change the nature of the war completely. I suspect such a one-sided victory in Kherson would cause a mass exodus of Orcs and Ukrainian turncoats from occupied Crimea.
the better move might be to allow the Russians to quit, come over and go to a camp with beds, food, clothes and a $5.000 check when the war ends.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:06 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
There is corruption everywhere, but there are levels and extents of corruption. My assumption here is that either CE has not travelled widely in the world, or he has and is deliberately downplaying the extent of corruption elsewhere, and exaggerating that to be found in London.
CE: have you visited Saudi Arabia, China or Vietnam? What was your impression of the level and extent of corruption in those countries and how does it compare with your perception (or claim) or corruption in London?
Then we can draw some meaningful conclusions about your assessment of corruption in Russia.
Useful source of comparison:
https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021
...and a lot of the alleged corruption in British politics is at the behest of Russian oligarchs and much of the money laundering in London is relates to Russian money.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:07 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
the better move might be to allow the Russians to quit, come over and go to a camp with beds, food, clothes and a $5.000 check when the war ends.
Probably a pipe dream, unfortunately. That would help things end up far, far better for all involved, though. Incidentally, at last check, that pretty well has been an option all along. 5 million rubles (worth nearly $50K at the time). Up to $1,000,000 for pilots who turned over equipment, too, for that matter. We can hope that that option becomes much, much more popular as Ukraine shows that Russia will fail miserably, on top of Russia being unable or unwilling to fulfill contractual pay agreements.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:12 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
the better move might be to allow the Russians to quit, come over and go to a camp with beds, food, clothes and a $5.000 check when the war ends.
Depends what "bagging" means in this context. If it means "kill them all", that would be counter productive. A surrounded Russian who has the expectation of being killed by Ukrainians will probably do his best to take a few of them with him. A surrounded Russian who has the expectation of a warm bed and food might choose to surrender instead. I'd do everything you suggest and make sure they all had mobile phones too.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:16 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
I know Berlin and London, even lived there for a while, it´s not comparable. In Russia most public facing officials and workers lack any type of courtesy, everyone seems depressed and nasty. You need bribes to even get medical attention. Water that comes out of faucets is undrinkable in many cities. Pollution. Children left to die of neglect in orphanages, etc, etc. Not comparable at all. I´m not going to fund you a trip there. I already funded myself for a trip to the US this summer, which is much less corrupt and ****** and makes for a nice place for a holiday. Most people are kind and nice to you there. Travelling really makes one get a feeling of what places really are like, to compare with what you may be reading online, which could be propaganda and making you believe a skewed version of reality.

So yes, Europe and the US are corrupt too, but that doesn´t mean Russia´s much worse corruption has to be dismissed.

From which time are your experiences? And if you didn't feel that people in Berlin are depressed and nasty when you lived there, you must be very old.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:16 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...5649822219f8e3

The Orcs have 15000 troops essentially cut off on the north and west sides of the river in Kherson. Bagging them would be a huge win and change the nature of the war completely. I suspect such a one-sided victory in Kherson would cause a mass exodus of Orcs and Ukrainian turncoats from occupied Crimea.
If that happens, it will be a milestone - but not yet a decisive one, just like the flight of the losing Orcs from Kyiv and the North didn't do much to reverse the occupation of Donbas, Crimea and the South.

Winning back the West bank of the Dnipr is the easy part, helped by the river being such a formidable and easily disrupted bottleneck for Ruscist resupplies. Ukrain will face the reverse problem if and when they try to win back territory on the East bank. That will require a whole now offensive, probably coming down from the North.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:17 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
...and a lot of the alleged corruption in British politics is at the behest of Russian oligarchs and much of the money laundering in London is relates to Russian money.
Exactly how pro-Russians know that it's so corrupt!

There's a principle that seems to pointedly elude motivated groups, either way. Positions like "all politicians are bad" and "all countries are corrupt" serve to benefit whatever side is more corrupt, with the most corrupt gaining the most benefit. Thus, the most corrupt are the ones with the most incentive to promote the spread of such perceptions. The UK and Germany being hellholes and Russia being amazing, despite all the more objective evidence to the contrary, is just a step further along the war on truth.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:29 AM   #171
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I love this talk about "Russian oligarchs". It's actually a tautology, because oligarchs only exist in Russia. In the Empire of Lies, there are "philanthropists" like the wonderful George Soros. And in Ukraine people like Kolomoiski who funded both the Azov Nazis and the actor in Kiev don't exist at all. It's Russian propaganda.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:30 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
From which time are your experiences? And if you didn't feel that people in Berlin are depressed and nasty when you lived there, you must be very old.
Many Berliners are a bit like that, that´s true, with a stick up their arse. I was there three years ago. A lot of Eastern Europe is like that, the more you approach Russia, the worst. (compared with home, Spain, where people are merrier)
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:31 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
From which time are your experiences? And if you didn't feel that people in Berlin are depressed and nasty when you lived there, you must be very old.
I lived in Berlin for some months, and worked there many work weeks over a longer time, in the late 90s. Does that count? Didn't notice depression and nastiness. You sure the Berliners weren't mirroring your own attitudes?

My nephew lives there now, and he wouldn't tolerate it if it were such a nasty and depressive place. In fact, he loves it.

CE talking ******** once more, while hating on Germany with the usual arrogance and cynicism.

I can attest from own experience that Kyiv is a corrupt place, on a level that Berlin, Brusseles, Paris or Madrid, and even Budapest, are not (can't speak for London, haven't ever been to the City). Heck, everyone in Kyiv admits there is corruption, and no friend of Ukraine denies it. Heck, even the Eu's demands and prerequisits for holding talks with Ukraine about path to membership focus heavily on corruption.

Friends of the Ruscist Federation on the other hand do deny, or seek to relativize corruption their.
Here is the correct relationship:
Ukraine is the 2nd most corrupt country in Europe.
The Ruscist Federation is significantly worse.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:36 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
Many Berliners are a bit like that, that´s true, with a stick up their arse. I was there three years ago. A lot of Eastern Europe is like that, the more you approach Russia, the worst. (compared with home, Spain, where people are merrier)
Berliners are direct and provocative, but they are not nasty. Me, coming from the Rhineland -Cologne as cultural center - feel very much at home there with that attitude: strangers exchange witty insults, then drink a beer and are good friends, because they understand each other.
Westphalians on the other hand don't know how to cope. They swallow the kidding, and develop a long-term grudge,
Not sure I remember what part CE is from...
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:41 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I lived in Berlin for some months, and worked there many work weeks over a longer time, in the late 90s. Does that count? Didn't notice depression and nastiness. You sure the Berliners weren't mirroring your own attitudes?

In the late 90s? I guess that was around the same time that Abooga was in Russia (edit: cross-posting, he was there three years ago he says - again sponsor me a trip and I'll go look for myself ). The last time I was in Berlin was 2016, and what I found was the proverbial "Berliner Schnauze" and a lot of dirt and nastiness (for the furryners, "Schnauze" is the German word for the mouth of a dog (and other animals)).
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:48 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Berliners are direct and provocative, but they are not nasty. Me, coming from the Rhineland -Cologne as cultural center - feel very much at home there with that attitude: strangers exchange witty insults, then drink a beer and are good friends, because they understand each other.
Westphalians on the other hand don't know how to cope. They swallow the kidding, and develop a long-term grudge,
Not sure I remember what part CE is from...

Cologne and Berlin are two completely different worlds as to the attitude of the people. But as to corruption, there's also a proverbial "Kölsche Klüngel" - but I doubt it is as bad as in Berlin.

And I should know, because I can be in Cologne quicker than you can.
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:50 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
Many Berliners are a bit like that, that´s true, with a stick up their arse. I was there three years ago. A lot of Eastern Europe is like that, the more you approach Russia, the worst. (compared with home, Spain, where people are merrier)

To specify: Were you in Russia or Berlin three years ago?
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Old 6th September 2022, 02:58 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
To specify: Were you in Russia or Berlin three years ago?
Berlin. As for Russia, I´ve never been there but I rely on the tellings of several close relatives, one of them lived there for many years (left about 10 years ago).
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:05 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
In the late 90s? I guess that was around the same time that Abooga was in Russia (edit: cross-posting, he was there three years ago he says - again sponsor me a trip and I'll go look for myself ). The last time I was in Berlin was 2016, and what I found was the proverbial "Berliner Schnauze" and a lot of dirt and nastiness (for the furryners, "Schnauze" is the German word for the mouth of a dog (and other animals)).
Berliner Schnauze is a term of endearment, not derogatory. Just clearing this up, lest any foreigners get misled by CE describing how CE's own nastiness was mirrored.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:06 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Cologne and Berlin are two completely different worlds as to the attitude of the people. But as to corruption, there's also a proverbial "Kölsche Klüngel" - but I doubt it is as bad as in Berlin.

And I should know, because I can be in Cologne quicker than you can.
Wrong side of the Rhine.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:14 AM   #181
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Russia purchasing and from North Korea.

Russia purchasing artillery, rockets from North Korea for Ukraine invasion
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-...orea/101411942
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:15 AM   #182
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Has the Ukrainian counter-offensive (that would never happen) started yet ?
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:31 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Abooga View Post
Berlin. As for Russia, I´ve never been there but I rely on the tellings of several close relatives, one of them lived there for many years (left about 10 years ago).

Oh, ok, thanks for clarifying.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:33 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Berliner Schnauze is a term of endearment, not derogatory. Just clearing this up, lest any foreigners get misled by CE describing how CE's own nastiness was mirrored.

It isn't. It is a vernacular description of an objective fact. You can like that "Schnauze" or not. I prefer Colognian habits.

And you pretending to know that I have been nasty to Berliners is pretty nasty.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:37 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Russia purchasing and from North Korea.

Russia purchasing artillery, rockets from North Korea for Ukraine invasion
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-...orea/101411942
I wonder how vulnerable the method of delivery to Russia would be? Surely these will be sent by ship, it'd be a real pity were some harm to befall them before they arrived.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:41 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I wonder how vulnerable the method of delivery to Russia would be? Surely these will be sent by ship, it'd be a real pity were some harm to befall them before they arrived.
Possibly by rail through China ?
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:42 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Has the Ukrainian counter-offensive (that would never happen) started yet ?
Yes it started and according to one person in here it didn't go so well and therefore it didn't start
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:50 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Has the Ukrainian counter-offensive (that would never happen) started yet ?

It's still going on, meaning poor people dragged from the streets of Western Ukraine are still sent to the meat grinder and die in huge numbers.

Originally Posted by MoD Russia English language channel
The enemy has lost a total of 11 tanks, 7 infantry combat vehicles and 8 armoured vehicles of other types, 9 pick-ups with large-calibre machine guns and over 220 servicemen at the abovementioned direction.

They also say they have destroyed an ammunition depot with 1500 shells for "Western" MRLS, among them 200 for HIMARS launchers. And in another event elsewhere, they claim to have destroyed another one of these launchers.

Which of course is impossible as we all know, HIMARS is holy and invincible and the Russians are lying all the time anyway.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:54 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It's still going on, meaning poor people dragged from the streets of Western Ukraine are still sent to the meat grinder and die in huge numbers.
Good, so we can add "There will be no Ukrainian counteroffensive" to the list of failed predictions.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
They also say they have destroyed an ammunition depot with 1500 shells for "Western" weapons, among them 200 for HIMARS launchers. And in another event elsewhere, they claim to have destroyed another one of these launchers.

Which of course is impossible as we all know, HIMARS is holy and invincible and the Russians are lying all the time anyway.
I think it's already been established that Russian MoD claims are even more unreliable and inflated than Ukrainian claims. After all, Russia claims to have destroyed more equipment than Ukraine has been supplied with.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:03 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Good, so we can add "There will be no Ukrainian counteroffensive" to the list of failed predictions.

You can spin all day my words to meaning anything else than that there will be no meaningful counteroffensive that achieves anything near the goals stated by the clowns in Kiev, like taking back Crimea. If it makes you feel better. That they will send more people to the meat grinder I never doubted. Because I know the people "you" support.

The above quote was from yesterday btw, the latest is just out. While they claimed yesterday that they shot down another MI-8 helicopter, today it is 3 SU-25. So we are now at 290 planes and 152 helicopters. Which of course never existed and hence now don't exist anymore.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:05 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It isn't. It is a vernacular description of an objective fact. You can like that "Schnauze" or not. I prefer Colognian habits.

And you pretending to know that I have been nasty to Berliners is pretty nasty.
Not nearly as nasty as declaring of Berlin nasty.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:10 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Berliners are direct and provocative, but they are not nasty. Me, coming from the Rhineland -Cologne as cultural center - feel very much at home there with that attitude: strangers exchange witty insults, then drink a beer and are good friends, because they understand each other.
Westphalians on the other hand don't know how to cope. They swallow the kidding, and develop a long-term grudge,
Not sure I remember what part CE is from...
I currently live in Berlin, have now for over 3 years, and interact with a wide variety of people across the board. If CE thinks Berlin is more corrupt than any city in Russia, or London, he's clearly delusional.

Hell, just one DAY in Moscow and you are exposed to a year's worth of Berlin-level corruption.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:12 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Possibly by rail through China ?
There is a direct rail link from North Korea to Russia. The Pont de l'Amitie. I doubt it is particularly rapid transit however.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:25 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You can spin all day my words to meaning anything else than that there will be no meaningful counteroffensive that achieves anything near the goals stated by the clowns in Kiev, like taking back Crimea. If it makes you feel better. That they will send more people to the meat grinder I never doubted. Because I know the people "you" support.
It's not a case of spinning your words, merely reminding you of what you said. You said that there would be no Ukrainian counteroffensive, there is one ongoing, so you were wrong.

If you'd like to move the goalposts completely and claim that the counteroffensive would have to achieve all the military aspirations assigned to it by supporters of the opposition for it even to exist then I think most people would note the evasion.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The above quote was from yesterday btw, the latest is just out. While they claimed yesterday that they shot down another MI-8 helicopter, today it is 3 SU-25. So we are now at 290 planes and 152 helicopters. Which of course never existed and hence now don't exist anymore.
As is noted upthread, both sides' claims are wildly optimistic and wide of what can be verified independently. This is quite typical in times of war, and optimistic claims may serve a good propaganda purpose (just so long as those making military decisions don't believe them).

That said, the Russian claims are clearly vastly exaggerated because they claim to have destroyed far more Ukrainian materiel than they have ever had. When claims are that fantastic and easily debunked then the propaganda value of them is diluted.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:27 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Lplus View Post
There is a direct rail link from North Korea to Russia. The Pont de l'Amitie. I doubt it is particularly rapid transit however.
It would likely still be faster than seaborne transport especially considering that those supplies would have to come in via the Baltic or far North because they would not be allowed in the Black Sea.

Smaller/lighter items might be airfreighted in but if we're talking hundreds of thousands of tonnes of ammunition then the Russians would likely not have the logistical capacity to move that by air.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:37 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
CE talking ******** once more, while hating on Germany with the usual arrogance and cynicism.
As the old saying goes, if everyone around you is a jerk, it’s you.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:56 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You can spin all day my words to meaning anything else than that there will be no meaningful counteroffensive that achieves anything near the goals stated by the clowns in Kiev, like taking back Crimea. If it makes you feel better. That they will send more people to the meat grinder I never doubted. Because I know the people "you" support.

The above quote was from yesterday btw, the latest is just out. While they claimed yesterday that they shot down another MI-8 helicopter, today it is 3 SU-25. So we are now at 290 planes and 152 helicopters. Which of course never existed and hence now don't exist anymore.
I'm seeing some unorthodox use of quote marks here. Previously, I've seen a lot of "Ukraine" and "Western" (but never "Russian"). Are "you" using them as contempt marks? Or do "you" believe that neither the West, Ukraine nor the poster you were replying to actually exist?

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Old 6th September 2022, 05:01 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Hevneren View Post
I'm seeing some unorthodox use of quote marks here. Previously, I've seen a lot of "Ukraine" and "Western" (but never "Russian"). Are "you" using them as contempt marks? Or do "you" believe that neither the West, Ukraine nor the poster you were replying to actually exist?
I took it to mean that while Childlike Empress was replying to my post, the word "you" didn't apply exclusively to me but rather the majority of posters in this thread.
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Old 6th September 2022, 05:15 AM   #199
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by Hevneren View Post
I'm seeing some unorthodox use of quote marks here. Previously, I've seen a lot of "Ukraine" and "Western" (but never "Russian"). Are "you" using them as contempt marks? Or do "you" believe that neither the West, Ukraine nor the poster you were replying to actually exist?

I'm using a lot of quotation marks to indicate that a lot of words would need definition, as language is imprecise, especially the English language. In the specific case, "The Don" has understood it almost correctly. The quotes are there to indicate that I didn't mean to accuse him personally of knowingly supporting the scum who currently "rules" Kiev.

I don't think I have ever used quotation marks around the Ukraine, but I could be wrong.
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Last edited by Childlike Empress; 6th September 2022 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 6th September 2022, 05:35 AM   #200
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Note the quote marks around "rules" to imply that the current government either does not really rule or does so illegitimately. Note also the use of the Ukraine rather than just Ukraine, so as to refer only to a geographical area and thus avoid mention of Ukraine's status as a sovereign nation.
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