IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags putin , russia , Russia-Ukraine war , ukraine , Zelensky

Reply
Old 8th September 2022, 11:02 AM   #321
Jimbo07
Illuminator
 
Jimbo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,248
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
When it does, Captain Swoop will reappear to say "See?".
We never formalized our bet, but it'd sure be one I'd be happy to lose!
__________________
This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group.

Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key
Jimbo07 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 11:55 AM   #322
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 34,730
Originally Posted by FatherLukeduke View Post
That aged well.


Oopsie!


And the Russian milibloggers are showing a sweet mix of despair and bitter anger. Considering the tone of the posts and how well connected some of these guys are to the frontline, I'm starting to think things are even worse for the Russians than is being reported.

Ultranationalist war criminal, FSB colonel and now blogger, Igor Gerkin is in a pickle....
He should probably stay away from windows in tall buildings.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 11:57 AM   #323
jeremyp
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 1,755
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
... when it's not even an existential war! And your homeland isn't even under attack!
I think it is an existential war for Putin. I can't see him surviving a defeat for very long.
jeremyp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:01 PM   #324
jeremyp
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 1,755
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It won't turn into a general rout because the Russians lack the comms to know when they should be routing, and they lack the logistics to actually withdraw en masse anyway.
I think you are confusing routs with retreats. When an army withdraws from a position, that is a retreat. A rout is when the army ceases to offer any serious resistance. The actual soldiers are either captured, killed or run away. None of those activities require logistics or communications, at least not for the army that has been routed.
jeremyp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:06 PM   #325
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 47,307
Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
I think you are confusing routs with retreats. When an army withdraws from a position, that is a retreat. A rout is when the army ceases to offer any serious resistance. The actual soldiers are either captured, killed or run away. None of those activities require logistics or communications, at least not for the army that has been routed.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:07 PM   #326
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,270
Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
I think it is an existential war for Putin. I can't see him surviving a defeat for very long.
I heard the same claim about Saddam regarding the first Gulf war, that it was such a humiliating defeat that surely his regime would collapse.

It did not, and I fear that defeat in Ukraine will not lead to Putin's downfall either.

One of the seeming paradoxes of dictatorships is that economic hardship for the country can actually help keep them in power, and prosperity can make their downfall easier. At first glance this seems wrong, but basically what happens is that organizing an opposition that can threaten the regime requires the accumulation of distribution of a significant amount of wealth to rally people to the cause. When there's no money to spare, nobody can challenge the dictator's power.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:12 PM   #327
Jimbo07
Illuminator
 
Jimbo07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,248
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I heard the same claim about Saddam regarding the first Gulf war, that it was such a humiliating defeat that surely his regime would collapse.

It did not, and I fear that defeat in Ukraine will not lead to Putin's downfall either.

One of the seeming paradoxes of dictatorships is that economic hardship for the country can actually help keep them in power, and prosperity can make their downfall easier. At first glance this seems wrong, but basically what happens is that organizing an opposition that can threaten the regime requires the accumulation of distribution of a significant amount of wealth to rally people to the cause. When there's no money to spare, nobody can challenge the dictator's power.
The counter to that, of course, is Argentina. Galtieri picked a fight with a democracy, over a piece land that didn't require fighting, during economic hardship. No nuclear weapons were exchanged, and he was beaten entirely outside his border. The Junta was brought down.

Edit: The trick, as has been essentially addressed upthread, is that Putin is not entirely unpopular! One of the reasons for his popularity is the stability his regime brought to Russia. There were more car-bombings the chaotic 90s, than there are now, for example.
__________________
This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group.

Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

Last edited by Jimbo07; 8th September 2022 at 12:14 PM.
Jimbo07 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:46 PM   #328
ginjawarrior
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 298
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
ginjawarrior is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 12:55 PM   #329
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,093
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I go back and forth on this. On the one hand, I remember Soviet-era reports that the populace generally understood they were being lied to, and were mostly just trying to go along with the regime to get along with the regime. On the other hand, there are reports today of frustrated Russian ethno-patriotism and a mythology of Russian exceptionalism and destiny, that might make believing the lies more rewarding in some way.

I expect that most of the "true believers" are already invested in the war effort. The trick will be motivating the rest of the populace that probably suspects the government is dildos and this war is a bowl of dicks.
The other day, the NYT had an article on how the war affects the lives and the thoughts of most ordinary Moscovites: It hardly doesn't at all. Which of course is by design: Ruscist propaganda portraits this as a "special operation", which implies that the prevailing message is "we send a few good soldiers, they'll sort things out with those uppity 'Ukrainians' - stop worryin and carry on as usual". This message would be quite obviously at odds with a perception that Russia is under attack, as in "foreign hordes are invading (or at least seriously shooting at) Russian territory".

My guess would therefore be that few Russians are under the impression that Russia is being attacked militarily. Unless you count Donbas as "Russia" - then Ruscist propaganda has spread that myth since 2014.

However, do Russians think Russia is under attack economically? Hell yes! "Economic warfare" . isn't that what Putler said just yesterday?
As if the Ruscist Federation had done nothing wrong by marching on Kyiv...
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 01:15 PM   #330
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
Eh, I'm not sure the NYT is a good source on living conditions and mindsets in Russia.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 01:27 PM   #331
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18,093
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Eh, I'm not sure the NYT is a good source on living conditions and mindsets in Russia.
Major news companies have correspondents living in Moscow. It's not that difficult and actually still possible to watch TV and ask people.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 01:32 PM   #332
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 27,442
Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
We never formalized our bet, but it'd sure be one I'd be happy to lose!
You mean these posts?

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
They all make it up as they go along.

Didn't you notice they had a big collapse? they had one recently when they retreated one from Snake Island.
Nothing much will happen until Ukraine switch over to an offensive.
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Remember that Russian troops are people with families and social media.

Russia devotes a lot of effort into propaganda, but it's not the closed society of the USSR of 1982.

Morale is infectious, and things tend to look Okayish until they don't.

For example, there had been increasing rumbles of discontent with Johnson but he brazened it out until Sunak and Javid resigned.

Johnson still insisted he was fine but it looked increasingly hollow.
ETA: the video Captain_Swoop linked to in his reply to me
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

Last edited by jimbob; 8th September 2022 at 01:36 PM.
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 01:41 PM   #333
crescent
Philosopher
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,085
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
One Russian captured by Ukr forces + 2 (only briefly seen) KIA

Two more Russians captured, one a Lt. Colonel.

Seven more captures, one is Wagner.

Two more

Three more(Although this one looks a bit suspicious because they are dressed a bit too warmly, might be from the spring fighting).

Things are happening.

ETA: Three more


There are claims now that the captured Lt. Colonel is actually at Colonel General. I'm looking at images of both - it seems plausible.

Here's a Reddit thread that makes the claim, its got a photo of the General in dress uniform. He's got a mole on his left cheek below the level of the lips, and you can also see the shape of his ear very well:

That Lt Col captured yesterday was actually Colonel General Sichovy, commander of the West Group. Russian forces in Kharkiv Oblast are now without an overall commander

Here' a Yahoo article with a still from the video I linked to yesterday. I think it really is the same guy. The mole (both size and location), the shape of the ear.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/ukrainian-...175100801.html


Sometime yesterday.
General to his men: "I'm going to see what's going on, don't do anything until I get back."
(Never comes back.)
Men to themselves "Well, he said not to do anything...".
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 01:45 PM   #334
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
Moderator
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 27,442
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
There are claims now that the captured Lt. Colonel is actually at Colonel General. I'm looking at images of both - it seems plausible.

Here's a Reddit thread that makes the claim, its got a photo of the General in dress uniform. He's got a mole on his left cheek below the level of the lips, and you can also see the shape of his ear very well:

That Lt Col captured yesterday was actually Colonel General Sichovy, commander of the West Group. Russian forces in Kharkiv Oblast are now without an overall commander

Here' a Yahoo article with a still from the video I linked to yesterday. I think it really is the same guy. The mole (both size and location), the shape of the ear.

https://www.yahoo.com/now/ukrainian-...175100801.html


Sometime yesterday.
General to his men: "I'm going to see what's going on, don't do anything until I get back."
(Never comes back.)
Men to themselves "Well, he said not to do anything...".
Probably trying to do something that a senior NCO would do in a NATO army
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare
https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt

Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 02:37 PM   #335
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,576
Originally Posted by crescent View Post
This from official Ukr goverment people:



(For us metrically clueless 'Mercans, 700 square km is about 270 square miles.)

There are claims that there is still fighting in Balakeya/Blaakliya/Balakiia but Livemap has a video still showing the Ukrainian flag over the city council building.

Some of the Russian bloggers were claiming even further UKr advances yesterday, with claims that there was fighting at Savyntsi (south of Balakliia,) that Chkalovske had fallen. No such luck yet, but this is still a nice big breakthrough that's still advancing.

Denys Davydov just posted a video with video of Ukrainian soldiers posing by the Ukrainian flag they've just raised, and stepping on the Russian flag they've just removed.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
--Carl Schurz
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 03:18 PM   #336
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,269
I wonder if Putin will ever accept responsibility for the boondoggle he made of Ukraine.

Just kidding.
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 8th September 2022 at 03:20 PM.
eerok is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 03:48 PM   #337
lobosrul5
Illuminator
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,282
"St Petersburg Municipal Deputies call for Russia’s State Duma to accuse Putin of treason"

Is this really true???

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/0...in-of-treason/

Of course if Russia is anything like the US, calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere. Still a big deal.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 03:55 PM   #338
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
"St Petersburg Municipal Deputies call for Russia’s State Duma to accuse Putin of treason"

Is this really true???

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/0...in-of-treason/

Of course if Russia is anything like the US, calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere. Still a big deal.
Calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere in the US because of US rule of law. Criminal charges arise primarily from due process, not from public sentiment (and hopefully not much from partisan political pressure).

And it's relatively safe to issue such calls in the US. Maybe you get shunned by whatever partisan faction was shunning you anyway.

I imagine it's quite different in Russia, making public statements about the president being a traitor.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:10 PM   #339
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Niceville, Florida, USA
Posts: 5,576
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
"St Petersburg Municipal Deputies call for Russia’s State Duma to accuse Putin of treason"

Is this really true???

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/0...in-of-treason/

Of course if Russia is anything like the US, calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere. Still a big deal.

It's true. It's been picked up by several major news outlets. I just don't know what to make of it. Are these people really brave? Are they insane? Are they incredibly naive? Or are they the vanguard of a major anti-Putin movement?
__________________
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."
--Carl Schurz
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:12 PM   #340
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere in the US because of US rule of law. Criminal charges arise primarily from due process, not from public sentiment (and hopefully not much from partisan political pressure).

And it's relatively safe to issue such calls in the US. Maybe you get shunned by whatever partisan faction was shunning you anyway.

I imagine it's quite different in Russia, making public statements about the president being a traitor.
Historically speaking, I'm not so sure a trial is a big part of what happens after a Russian ruler gets accused of treason.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:14 PM   #341
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
It's true. It's been picked up by several major news outlets. I just don't know what to make of it. Are these people really brave? Are they insane? Are they incredibly naive? Or are they the vanguard of a major anti-Putin movement?
Whatever the answer to your question, they know they are now playing "Game of Thrones". Once you start this, it only ends with one side or the other going face down in their borsch.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:14 PM   #342
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
A show trial so the accuser can publicly recant, maybe.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:16 PM   #343
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A show trial so the accuser can publicly recant, maybe.
Maybe for the apparatchiks who go down with him. I suspect all we'll hear from Putin are gurgling sounds.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:23 PM   #344
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 20,561
A really excellent conversation between Gonzalo Lira, a Yankistani with some South American roots currently in Kharkov, Andrei Martyanov, an analyst with Slavic roots who is I don't know where, and the fabulous Pepe Escobar, a Brazilian who is all over the world but at the time of the conversation in Istanbul. Take your time to listen.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you" - Robert Anton Wilson
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:26 PM   #345
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Maybe for the apparatchiks who go down with him. I suspect all we'll hear from Putin are gurgling sounds.
Ah. I was thinking Putin would just suppress his accusers in St. Petersburg, actually.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:28 PM   #346
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A really excellent conversation between Gonzalo Lira, a Yankistani with some South American roots currently in Kharkov, Andrei Martyanov, an analyst with Slavic roots who is I don't know where, and the fabulous Pepe Escobar, a Brazilian who is all over the world but at the time of the conversation in Istanbul. Take your time to listen.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Not much to say about Russian losses? You do seem to dig up videos of nobodies talking to other nobodies when your precious Russians get their assess handed to them.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:32 PM   #347
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Ah. I was thinking Putin would just suppress his accusers in St. Petersburg, actually.
I'm guessing either the people in St. Petersburg know something we don't or think they know something we don't. This strikes me as the sort of thing you do to give a coup legitimacy. I suspect their plan has more steps to it than issue a decree.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:46 PM   #348
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,301
Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
I suspect that at least some Russian units are breaking and running, though I doubt this will turn into a general rout, at least not within the next several days.
Time to bring in the FSB machine gun teams to "encourage" the retreating units.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:47 PM   #349
eerok
Quixoticist
 
eerok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: ON Canada
Posts: 5,269
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A really excellent conversation [...]
Who cares? We want to see Putin's head on a spike. Got any of that?

Russian troops are paying for their crimes in Ukraine, but when will the leaders pay?
__________________
"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

Last edited by eerok; 8th September 2022 at 04:49 PM.
eerok is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:48 PM   #350
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,301
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
"St Petersburg Municipal Deputies call for Russia’s State Duma to accuse Putin of treason"

Is this really true???

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/0...in-of-treason/

Of course if Russia is anything like the US, calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere. Still a big deal.
That any Russian offical would publically do this is a big deal.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:48 PM   #351
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,301
Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Who cares? We want to see Putin's head on a spike. Got any of that?
Or at least his bullet filled body in a basement some where a la Nicholas the Second.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:50 PM   #352
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 26,160
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Or at least his bullet filled body in a basement some where a la Nicholas the Second.
Crushed to death while having a sex with a horse would be a good one too and way funnier.

In all seriousness, the historic symbolism of this coming from St. Petersburg is significant and I'm sure is no accident.
__________________
Fight like a Ukrainian.

Last edited by Craig4; 8th September 2022 at 04:56 PM.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 04:58 PM   #353
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Time to bring in the FSB machine gun teams to "encourage" the retreating units.
Too bad the next train to the front isn't due for another week.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 05:06 PM   #354
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,301
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Crushed to death while having a sex with a horse would be a good one too and way funnier.

In all seriousness, the historic symbolism of this coming from St. Petersburg is significant and I'm sure is no accident.
This.
TIme to put on my DVD's of "Nicholas and Alexandra" and "Doctor Zhivago" again.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 05:10 PM   #355
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 61,494
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
"St Petersburg Municipal Deputies call for Russia’s State Duma to accuse Putin of treason"

Is this really true???

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/0...in-of-treason/

Of course if Russia is anything like the US, calls for charging the head of state for a crime lead nowhere. Still a big deal.
ChildlikeEmpress, I'd much rather get your take on this development, than listen to a handful of randos do coffee talk over zoom.
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 05:39 PM   #356
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 56,301
Some are already nicknaming the surprise Ukrainin offensive around Kharkov as "Backhand Blow 2".
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 05:46 PM   #357
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ngunnawal Country
Posts: 77,926
Originally Posted by FatherLukeduke View Post
Ultranationalist war criminal, FSB colonel and now blogger, Igor Gerkin is in a pickle
I see what you did there.
__________________
? > !
arthwollipot is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 05:46 PM   #358
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,836
I'm just going to go ahead and declare this an actual counteroffensive, if that's alright. I think it's time.
__________________
"To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength"
-Leni Riefenstahl
Wollen owns the stage

Last edited by trustbutverify; 8th September 2022 at 05:48 PM.
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 06:00 PM   #359
Wildy
Adelaidean
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,519
But that can't be right. Clearly it's another masterful feint which will allow glorious Russia to win all the Ukraine.
__________________
Wildy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th September 2022, 06:05 PM   #360
GraculusTheGreenBird
Muse
 
GraculusTheGreenBird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 525
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A really excellent conversation between Gonzalo Lira, a Yankistani with some South American roots currently in Kharkov, Andrei Martyanov, an analyst with Slavic roots who is I don't know where, and the fabulous Pepe Escobar, a Brazilian who is all over the world but at the time of the conversation in Istanbul. Take your time to listen.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
More lies. No, we won't bother thanks.
GraculusTheGreenBird is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:25 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.