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Old 21st September 2022, 12:49 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
So, his being Left or Right had nothing to do with it. An aggressive drunk who let it go out of hand. Not many of them out there, are there?
And we'll just ignore this part?

Originally Posted by news article
....because he had a political argument with him
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:22 AM   #162
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Gosh! A political argument! That's more than enough provocation to kill someone, no? A disagreement over Marxist dialectic, perhaps? Leninism versus Trotskyism? Outcomes of socialist revisionism? Yes, I can see something leftist like that leading to getting run over in a drunken rage.

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Old 21st September 2022, 03:11 AM   #163
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American political argument:

C: "Biden's a poo-poo head commie jihadist."
D: "Trump is a bloated orange moron."
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:45 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And we'll just ignore this part?

Of course.

First, in an attempt to draw attention away from this event, a poster posts multiple examples of right-wing violence. Then another progresses to denying that this attack was even politically motivated.

Quote:
Whataboutism is an argumentative tactic where a person or group responds to an accusation or difficult question by deflection. Instead of addressing the point made, they counter it with “but what about X?”.

This sort of deflection and denial has become standard for the left, prominently on display over the past couple years of leftist violence. Which, of course, they claim does not exist.
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:10 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Here we go:
I appreciate these asinine posts that so aptly highlight the triviality of violence on the left in comparison to the dangerous political violence from the right that threatens US democracy, which is encouraged by the GOP power structure.

Well done!
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:31 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I appreciate these asinine posts that so aptly highlight the triviality of violence on the left in comparison to the dangerous political violence from the right that threatens US democracy, which is encouraged by the GOP power structure.

Well done!
Yeah, a drunken "political argument" that leads to one idiot running down someone in his car is equivalent to the president of the U.S. inciting a riot to overthrow the U.S. government.

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic...and the most pathetic part is that they don't even seem to realize how incredibly pathetic it makes them look.
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:47 AM   #167
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Mod WarningWe have two separate threads, "Violence on the Left" and "Right Wing terrorism". Please double check you are posting in the correct thread for the violence you are posting about. So left to left and right to right and never the twain shall meet.
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:Darat
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:54 AM   #168
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There was a violent outburst at a TPUSA event on the campus of University of Iowa while a presenter was showing a meme video of Kamala Harris.

A black man walked to the front of the room where the presentation was being held and dropkicked a table and projector before yelling "Racist ass bitch, **** you, I swear to ******* god!" while storming out of the room.

He is believed to be the same person seen pounding on a TPUSA table with a skateboard earlier in the day.
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:59 AM   #169
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Could you translate this for me: "That is when a low-T leftist strung-out on pure soy snapped into a violent rage"
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:07 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Could you translate this for me: "That is when a low-T leftist strung-out on pure soy snapped into a violent rage"
Low-T: Low testosterone, the latest in a series of insults against the left designed by the right. We leftists used to be "cucks", now we're low testosterone.

Strung out on pure soy: mental faculties impaired by a plant-based diet
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Old 21st September 2022, 05:14 AM   #171
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Funny how "Low-T" manages to be presented as weak and a rage monster at the same time.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:38 AM   #172
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A 74-year-old gay rights pioneer was assaulted and robbed by a mob during a pride parade in Vermont.

Not by MAGArs, this was rainbow on rainbow violence.

Quote:
74-year-old gay rights pioneer Fred Sargeant, who was present at the Stonewall riots in 1969 and who co-founded the first pride march in New York City in 1970, was beaten and robbed by far-left and trans activists at the pride event in Burlington, Vermont on Sunday. Sargeant was holding a sign critical of trans ideology.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:41 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
A 74-year-old gay rights pioneer was assaulted and robbed by a mob during a pride parade in Vermont.

Not by MAGArs, this was rainbow on rainbow violence.
Not seeing any evidence for the claim that this was "leftists" or "far-leftists".
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:03 AM   #174
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Violent left-wing agitator, who has been charged with five felonies along with two misdemeanors, had his trial postponed for witness intimidation.

Joshua Ziminski is the man who "fired a warning shot" at a 17-year-old kid who was being chased, and threatened with death, by a multi-time convicted child molester.
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:08 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
A 74-year-old gay rights pioneer was assaulted and robbed by a mob during a pride parade in Vermont.

Not by MAGArs, this was rainbow on rainbow violence.
Jeebus...the lack of self-awareness as to how pathetic scraping the internet for such crumbs appears to any normal or rational person is breathtaking. And with every entry more pathetic than the previous -- really, this can't be real, can it? The motivation cannot possibly be that these posts are scoring any points for the right, unless we're talking about Challenger Deep level of denial.
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:08 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Violent left-wing agitator, who has been charged with five felonies along with two misdemeanors, had his trial postponed for witness intimidation.

Joshua Ziminski is the man who "fired a warning shot" at a 17-year-old kid who was being chased, and threatened with death, by a multi-time convicted child molester.
More pathetic.
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:17 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Not seeing any evidence for the claim that this was "leftists" or "far-leftists".
Assaulting someone for not standing for trans rights seems pretty left-wing to me.

https://twitter.com/LGBAlliance_USA/...30086206472195

It could be just my personal experience, but I've yet to meet any trans rights advocates who found some way to do their advocacy from the political premises of conservatism rather than either liberalism or progressivism.
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:46 AM   #178
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There is probably an interesting discussion about how to define political violence. I'd say the violence needs to be in service of a political goal rather than just part of the context, but so it goes.

The line would blur sometimes and it could get complex. The difference between me having a biscuit thrown at me because someone gets mad in the moment and having one thrown at me because they want to deter me from engaging in political discussions as part of a concerted goal to silence progressive voices can be challenging.

I say it depends on how much gravy in on the biscuit, but that could just be a rule of thumb.
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:17 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Assaulting someone for not standing for trans rights seems pretty left-wing to me.

https://twitter.com/LGBAlliance_USA/...30086206472195

It could be just my personal experience, but I've yet to meet any trans rights advocates who found some way to do their advocacy from the political premises of conservatism rather than either liberalism or progressivism.
But where is the actual evidence not just your speculations?
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:21 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
But where is the actual evidence not just your speculations?
I suppose it is possible this was a false flag attack by Proud Boys pretending to be trans activists. Guess we'll never know.

ETA: PraxiStudio stickers are definitely by and for leftists, however, and they are the folks who openly advocated the idea that people who oppose trans activism should be beaten until they cannot stand up.
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:57 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Violent left-wing agitator, who has been charged with five felonies along with two misdemeanors, had his trial postponed for witness intimidation.

Joshua Ziminski is the man who "fired a warning shot" at a 17-year-old kid who was being chased, and threatened with death, by a multi-time convicted child molester.
The Kenosha County Eye is a right wing publication. Its editor is a guest on Newsmax. This gave me my first clue which was confirmed by then looking it up:

Quote:
Progressive Kenosha District Attorney Michael Graveley waited over 5 months to charge Ziminski, only after community push-back. Even still, many thought Ziminski was charged too softly. Ziminski was initially held on a low, $1,000 cash bond, but Judge Schroeder raised it to $13,000 on January 31st. Ziminski was scheduled to go to trial this day, but was accused of intimidating a witness in the case, Kenosha freelance photographer Nathan Debruin. Progressive Prosecutor Zeke Wiedenfeld of Walworth County declined to charge Ziminski.
Notice the deliberate use of "Progressive". I suspect anyone who isn't a rabid Republican is described as a "progressive" by this paper.


Ziminski isn't a 'leftist' political agitator at all; he's an opportunist with a long criminal history of anti-social behavior but no evidence of interest in politics.

3. Ziminski Is Facing Serious Charges & Has a Lengthy Criminal History
His previous charges/convictions have been for misdemeanor battery and disorderly conduct, domestic abuse related, two child support actions, one paternity action, in 2016, he was found guilty of hit and run, marijuana possession and operating while revoked as a habitual offender, a 'slew' of traffic cases, and robbery with use of force, a felony, but the case was reduced to misdemeanor disorderly conduct.

He comes from a very troubled background including an alcoholic father who drank himself to death. He threatened to beat a man on Facebook, writing, “when I see you IM beat that a** u b**** a** p**** u think it tough talking s*** to a woman f**.” He has two FB pages and "Neither page shows an interest in protest activity." This FB page shows a foul mouthed, uneducated, obsessed with cars/motorcycles man who makes no mention of politics or an interest in social justice at all. He repeatedly complains about being 'bord' and lonely/wanting a wife.

Ziminski isn't an example of "left wing" violence nor is he an agitator as Bogative claims. Ziminiski is a troubled, drug-using, criminal opportunist who used the Kenosha protests as an opportunity to act out. He's one of the opportunists that studies have found caused much of the violence and looting during the protests.

To use him as an example of Violence from the Left is absurd.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:13 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose it is possible this was a false flag attack by Proud Boys pretending to be trans activists. Guess we'll never know.

ETA: PraxiStudio stickers are definitely by and for leftists, however, and they are the folks who openly advocated the idea that people who oppose trans activism should be beaten until they cannot stand up.


That's rhetoric, not actual violence. People say a lot of things on the internet.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:29 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Assaulting someone for not standing for trans rights seems pretty left-wing to me.

https://twitter.com/LGBAlliance_USA/...30086206472195

It could be just my personal experience, but I've yet to meet any trans rights advocates who found some way to do their advocacy from the political premises of conservatism rather than either liberalism or progressivism.
Well I could mention that some Conservatives were and are pro Gay Rights. Like one of the Lawyers who fought in Court against Proposition 8. So the idea that a Conservative might support Trans Rights would not surprise me. And may I point out that many so-called Terf's are anything but Conservative.

And may I point out that although it could be true that the person who assualted this person was to the Left of the Poilitical spectrum this could mean that they were Centrists not Leftists.

But then I have been very amused for decades about what so many Americans think is "Left wing". The idea that a conventional American Liberal is "Left wing" is actually very funny, but then characterizing them along with Democrats has "Left wing" extermists has been a common "Conservative" trope and propaganda ploy for decades.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:30 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
[/hilite]

That's rhetoric, not actual violence. People say a lot of things on the internet.
It is bad rhetoric and to be avoided.
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:02 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That's rhetoric, not actual violence.
I think it allows us to make an inference about the motivations of the people who put this merely rhetorical advice into practice.
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Old 21st September 2022, 04:14 PM   #186
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This thread illustrates how desperate the right wingers are to find some equivalence. It also shows that they don't know what political violence is.
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Old 21st September 2022, 06:51 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
ETA: PraxiStudio stickers are definitely by and for leftists, however, and they are the folks who openly advocated the idea that people who oppose trans activism should be beaten until they cannot stand up.
An artist in Spain. You're scraping the bottom of the Random Bozo barrel here. That's no small achievement in this inane thread.
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:31 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
An artist in Spain.
Did you miss the bit about where the stickers are being distributed?

https://twitter.com/LGBAlliance_USA/...30086206472195
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:46 PM   #189
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Let's not forget the dozens and dozens of attacks against pro-life pregnancy centers.

Quote:
"Houses of worship and pro-life pregnancy centers are under attack," Cotton wrote to Garland. "The Family Research Council has compiled a list of more than 50 attacks against churches, pro-life pregnancy centers, and other pro-life groups in the past few weeks. A left-wing extremist group called 'Jane’s Revenge' has taken credit for many of these attacks, including firebombings and grotesque acts of vandalism."

Cotton cited a terrorist threat Jane's Revenge published Tuesday that declared "open season" on so-called "anti-choice" groups and promised "increasingly drastic measures" that "may not come in the form of something so easily cleaned up as fire and graffiti."
https://www.theblaze.com/news/fbi-wi...enge-terrorism
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Old 21st September 2022, 07:51 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Did you miss the bit about where the stickers are being distributed?

https://twitter.com/LGBAlliance_USA/...30086206472195
No, pardon me. I must revise/retract...

Your cite isn't the worst of the lot. In the grand scheme, it's on par with the other pathetic drivel that's been cited.

All we need is "someone on Facebook said..." and then we'll have a true cornucopia of Random Bozo citations to mock.
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Old 21st September 2022, 08:12 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
Let's not forget the dozens and dozens of attacks against pro-life pregnancy centers.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fbi-wi...enge-terrorism
The Blaze?? Seriously? You give The Blaze credit for reputable journalism? OK, then...

Quote:
In other words, Hawley and Ngo are among the figures driving the most discussion of the group. “I think it’s helpful to see whose voices are dominating a particular conversation on Twitter, especially when elected officials are prominent in the discussion,” Gallagher told me recently. “Content about their ideological enemies doing evil things likely performs very well.”

...

Based on the scattering of random “Jane’s Revenge” graffiti that has been shared on Twitter in recent weeks, in bathrooms at fast-food restaurants and big-box stores, he said the name may be nothing more than a “tag” that can be affixed to any action with a certain style and intent.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ortion/671098/

In other words, ginned-up outrage on the right. Guess you fell for it.
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:08 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogative
Let's not forget the dozens and dozens of attacks against pro-life pregnancy centers.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fbi-wi...enge-terrorism

Remind me again how many of these, ahem "Pro Life Pregnancy Centres" have been bombed, or been subject to arson attacks? Remind me how many of the people working at them have had attackers attempt to murder them - how many have actually been murdered by activists?

Answer. ZERO

Meanwhile, since 1977 there have been abortion clinics and providers have been targeted all across the US, resulting in...

8 murders
17 attempted murders
42 bombings
186 arsons

In some cases, a small group of clinics have been targeted multiple times. For people who claim to be "pro-life" they sure do a lot of killing or attempted killing!
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:52 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Remind me again how many of these, ahem "Pro Life Pregnancy Centres" have been bombed, or been subject to arson attacks? Remind me how many of the people working at them have had attackers attempt to murder them - how many have actually been murdered by activists?

Answer. ZERO

Meanwhile, since 1977 there have been abortion clinics and providers have been targeted all across the US, resulting in...

8 murders
17 attempted murders
42 bombings
186 arsons

In some cases, a small group of clinics have been targeted multiple times. For people who claim to be "pro-life" they sure do a lot of killing or attempted killing!
It’s only wrong when a Democrat/liberal/leftist/prog does it.

If a pure hearted god fearing American Republican does it, it’s legitimate political discourse.
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Old 21st September 2022, 11:58 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose it is possible this was a false flag attack by Proud Boys pretending to be trans activists. Guess we'll never know.

ETA: PraxiStudio stickers are definitely by and for leftists, however, and they are the folks who openly advocated the idea that people who oppose trans activism should be beaten until they cannot stand up.
THIS is what has your and Bogative's knickers in a twist? REALLY? A cartoon with a vague threat that you interpret as being 'beaten until you can't get up'?

Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
[/hilite]

That's rhetoric, not actual violence. People say a lot of things on the internet.
It is bad rhetoric and to be avoided.
It's still not violence.

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I think it allows us to make an inference about the motivations of the people who put this merely rhetorical advice into practice.
Yeah...one group is transphobic and doesn't consider the other to be part of the LGB community. That has nothing to do with being a "leftie" at all. The incident mentioned in the link has nothing to do with "leftist" violence; it's not even political violence. It's two groups who have a philosophical disagreement on transsexualism. The LGBAlliance is transphobic and excludes transsexuals from being included in the "rainbow" flag. That's why their name isn't LGBAT.

The ACTION is the violence. The sticker is just a cartoon. Or do you that cartoon actually incites people to violence?
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Old 22nd September 2022, 12:14 AM   #195
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It's not even been verified that an actual "Jane's Revenge" organization exists. So far, some incidents have occurred with various anonymous claims of responsibility but no evidence they are part of any group or even really the perpetrators. It's been speculated that the alleged group might be anti-choice people trying to make pro-choice people look bad:

Quote:
Jane's Revenge communiques have been posted to a website launched in May. They say "we are not one group but many" and speak of having "various cells" which have been "proliferating messages."

There's something suspicious about the group's statements, which rely on over-the-top villainous language, like:

We have demonstrated in the past month how easy and fun it is to attack. We are versatile, we are mercurial, and we answer to no one but ourselves. …

From here forward, any anti-choice group who closes their doors, and stops operating will no longer be a target. But until you do, it's open season, and we know where your operations are. The infrastructure of the enslavers will not survive. We will never stop, back down, slow down, or retreat. We did not want this; but it is upon us, and so we must deal with it proportionally.

This sounds like what someone would write if they were trying to freak people out about violent pro-choice activists.
I don't know if J's R is real or not but whoever is doing these acts should be prosecuted.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 12:55 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's still not violence.
It can reasonably considered as encouraging/supporting violence. That can't be separated from the physical violence when assessing the level of violence in a particular group.

But in order to succesfully encourage a significant level of violence, one must be influential, such as high profile political leaders. Are there Democratic Reps encouraging violence? Democratic Senators? Democratic Governors? What about the most influential official of all, the POTUS? Have any recent Democratic POTUSes encouraged political violence, or offered words of support to domestic terrorists?

No to all the above. Instead we get a cavalcade of random bozos.

Pathetic.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 01:08 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I suppose it is possible this was a false flag attack by Proud Boys pretending to be trans activists. Guess we'll never know.

ETA: PraxiStudio stickers are definitely by and for leftists, however, and they are the folks who openly advocated the idea that people who oppose trans activism should be beaten until they cannot stand up.
This seems to be a complete non sequitur to my post as well as perhaps a strawman since I’ve not posted to my recollection anything about a group called “Praxis”.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 01:18 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It can reasonably considered as encouraging/supporting violence.
Yes. But it's still not actual violence.

Quote:
That can't be separated from the physical violence when assessing the level of violence in a particular group.
It most certainly can. Violence is a physical action, violent rhetoric is a description. Rhetoric can encourage and support violence, but it's not violence itself, especially when it's as vague as what that cartoon said.


Quote:
But in order to succesfully encourage a significant level of violence, one must be influential, such as high profile political leaders. Are there Democratic Reps encouraging violence? Democratic Senators? Democratic Governors? What about the most influential official of all, the POTUS? Have any recent Democratic POTUSes encouraged political violence, or offered words of support to domestic terrorists?

No to all the above. Instead we get a cavalcade of random bozos.
Pathetic.[/quote]

I agree with that. Incitement is a crime, but it's not violence in itself.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 03:06 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It can reasonably considered as encouraging/supporting violence. That can't be separated from the physical violence when assessing the level of violence in a particular group.

But in order to succesfully encourage a significant level of violence, one must be influential, such as high profile political leaders. Are there Democratic Reps encouraging violence? Democratic Senators? Democratic Governors? What about the most influential official of all, the POTUS? Have any recent Democratic POTUSes encouraged political violence, or offered words of support to domestic terrorists?

No to all the above. Instead we get a cavalcade of random bozos.

Pathetic.

I don't know if all of this is true.

For example, in the aftermath of the Floyd killing, there was a portion of the left actively supporting rioting and destructive protest. And if not directly supporting the violence and destruction, they were certainly sympathetic and in many cases, apathetic about it. This includes politicians/government at various levels.

Some may say, "that wasn't political!". I disagree. If one political ideology is supporting violent and destructive unrest, that in itself makes it a matter of politics.
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Old 22nd September 2022, 03:36 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Yes. But it's still not actual violence.



It most certainly can. Violence is a physical action, violent rhetoric is a description. Rhetoric can encourage and support violence, but it's not violence itself, especially when it's as vague as what that cartoon said.




Pathetic.
I agree with that. Incitement is a crime, but it's not violence in itself.[/quote]

But...but...Biden and Hillary called us bad words....
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