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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old 21st September 2022, 09:39 AM   #321
Warp12
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The quote you excerpted refers to "the final destination in Massachusetts." If they were told that destination was Boston and they were told of benefits they would receive there (though they were ineligible), then they were hornswaggled and that form doesn't change that fact.

Well, it isn't a promise to go to Boston, now is it? The form they signed makes no mention of a specific city.

Looks to me like they got exactly what they signed up for. The McD's gift certificates were just an added bonus.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:42 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The explanation in The Miami Herald makes it look like a federal agency is dealing with a federal issue and trying to spread the cases throughout the country. You have to figure Self would know this as this is, after all, literally her job.
I'm puzzled by what you mean here. It sounds like you're saying the DHS themselves participated in moving the migrants to Martha's Vineyard. I don't see any hint that this is true. So far as I know, the only reference to DHS "participation" has to do with processing the migrants as they entered the country.

As far as what a Massachusetts attorney should know about how the DHS processes migrants on the southern border, it seems to me plausible that she can competently do her job without ever seeing such a form. I'll bet that most asylum seekers who come to Massachusetts entered the US in a different way or already with an address where they planned to stay.

Quote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that the documents have been translated into Spanish by at least one of the myriad of aid agencies and churches in the border states and go out even further and suggest they're freely available. If I'm wrong, then somebody needs to get with the program, pronto.

What needs to happen now is Massachusetts needs to amend their refugee aid program to include asylees as well as refugees and push the sanctuary state to a whole new level.
Why on earth should Massachusetts do that? It's an option, sure, but I don't see that it's required for moral consistency or anything.

And, keep in mind that the sanctuary state status is a matter of a court ruling, not a legislative choice. There is no court ruling that the treatment of asylum seekers must be on par with the treatment of refugees.

Finally, no matter what MA should do, the fact is that the brochure was simply a baldfaced lie. When considering which parties aren't living up to basic moral convictions, I suppose I'd point the finger first at those who deceived the migrants in order to score political points.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:43 AM   #323
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I see some are giving undue credence to DeSantis despite his history of pandering to MAGA by going as low as he possibly can. No we aren't giving this opportunistic asshat the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:44 AM   #324
phiwum
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, it isn't a promise to go to Boston, now is it? The form they signed makes no mention of a specific city.

Looks to me like they got exactly what they signed up for. The McD's gift certificates were just an added bonus.
You're ignoring the promised benefits that do not exist.

Moreover, I would bet that if I lie to you about the benefits of travel to MA, the fact that you sign a document clearing me of responsibility is of little matter. The migrants were swindled, no matter the document they signed.

However, I know very little of contract law, so my wager isn't worth much. Perhaps we will see what a court says, though perhaps not.
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:50 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm puzzled by what you mean here. It sounds like you're saying the DHS themselves participated in moving the migrants to Martha's Vineyard. I don't see any hint that this is true. So far as I know, the only reference to DHS "participation" has to do with processing the migrants as they entered the country.

Look at the vid linked in the OP. At around 1:58 it is stated that DHS gave them "falsified" paperwork before they boarded the planes. It seems like they were at least present?
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Old 21st September 2022, 09:52 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You're ignoring the promised benefits that do not exist.

Moreover, I would bet that if I lie to you about the benefits of travel to MA, the fact that you sign a document clearing me of responsibility is of little matter. The migrants were swindled, no matter the document they signed.

However, I know very little of contract law, so my wager isn't worth much. Perhaps we will see what a court says, though perhaps not.

Did any of them also claim that they were promised new Cadillacs?
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:15 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Look at the vid linked in the OP. At around 1:58 it is stated that DHS gave them "falsified" paperwork before they boarded the planes. It seems like they were at least present?
"Before they boarded the planes" is ambiguous. Were they about to board the planes when the DHS gave them the paperwork? Or was it some unspecified time before they boarded the planes? (Is the attorney certain one way or the other or was she speaking loosely?)

Yesterday, I quoted an article from the Miami Herald.

Quote:
While they did not directly respond to the claims, officials with DHS now say the allegation is not only unrelated to what they called DeSantis’ “stunt” of sending planes to sanctuary jurisdictions, but also appears to be a misunderstanding of how they process migrants at the border. When migrants cross the border and enter a processing center — such as those who crossed at Eagle Pass before making their way to San Antonio — they fill out a digital “notice to appear” form with the assistance of an agent, and print it out with their approval of the address. Migrants are asked if they have somewhere specific to go, and if they do not, are assigned a random location for their court appearance, DHS officials explained.
If the DHS explanation is accurate, then the paperwork was done at a processing center when the individual migrants arrived and declared a desire to seek asylum. At least for now, this casts significant doubt on the presumption that the DHS were involved in the DeSantis scheme in any way.

Of course, if other evidence arises, we can revisit this. But I don't see the attorney's comments as definitive so far.
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:17 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Did any of them also claim that they were promised new Cadillacs?
There is a brochure that shows they were promised the benefits of a refugee. It's easily available online.

Sure, I guess it's possible that the brochure has been faked, but it's not the same as a migrant simply saying he was promised a Caddy. And faking the brochure would be a damned stupid thing to do, since it would seriously harm any chance at a victory in court.

So, I'll say we do have some evidence they were promised non-existent benefits. We have no evidence that a Cadillac was one of those benefits.
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Old 21st September 2022, 10:22 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Look at the vid linked in the OP. At around 1:58 it is stated that DHS gave them "falsified" paperwork before they boarded the planes. It seems like they were at least present?
Again, you're assuming facts not in evidence.
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:29 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
However, I know very little of contract law, so my wager isn't worth much. Perhaps we will see what a court says, though perhaps not.
Well I do as a matter of fact as I have dealt with both sides of contacts on and off for about 30 years - and I can to tell you that a contract is void if the contractor or contractee has lied or made false claims on the contact, and any related clause, whether it is part of that contract, another contract or separately signed declaration indemnifying either party, is also void.
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:31 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Again, you're assuming facts not in evidence.
Quelle surprise!
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Old 21st September 2022, 12:50 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Again, you're assuming facts not in evidence.

Too funny. Everyone lost their mind and was going on an on about all of the claims in that video. In fact,, that is the basis for most of what is in this thread. But now we are going to pick out one piece that doesn't 100% fit the preferred narrative, and shout "facts not in evidence!"?

This place is hilarious. If you go back, you will see that I already posted that we should not take what "angry Jane Curtin" says as fact, but that was not met with much acceptance. Look in the OP, citing the video as evidence that it is "worse than we thought".

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I should also add, most of what is being reported is from claims made by "angry Jane Curtin", from the twitter vid that was linked. Lets see how those claims are supported by evidence that stands up in court, and the legality of the actions, before we proclaim them as fact.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:13 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Too funny.
Neat. Don't care.

Do you have evidence that DHS was involved in DeSantis's human trafficking or not?
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:24 PM   #334
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Shipped back out in less than 48 hours! How NIMBY! One of the wealthiest areas in the US can't deal with 48 people. Imagine living in Texas.

DeSantis is a genius. I hope and pray Migrants are settled all across the US in every state. Open borders for all as it should be.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:26 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Shipped back out in less than 48 hours! How NIMBY! One of the wealthiest areas in the US can't deal with 48 people. Imagine living in Texas.

DeSantis is a genius. I hope and pray Migrants are settled all across the US in every state. Open borders for all as it should be.
Skipped learning anything about what happened before commenting, eh?
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:27 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Neat. Don't care.

Do you have evidence that DHS was involved in DeSantis's human trafficking or not?

Why are you on and on about this? That woman's word seems to be good enough for everyone on every other point. Why not this one?

I already said her spew shouldn't be considered as fact, pages ago. And you will notice that I said it "seems" DHS was present based on her "testimony". It's no skin off my rear, either way. But the way she tells it, that was the case.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Look at the vid linked in the OP. At around 1:58 it is stated that DHS gave them "falsified" paperwork before they boarded the planes. It seems like they were at least present?

Remember, I am OK with the actions of DeSantis.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:35 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why are you on and on about this? [snip]
"No." Got it. No evidence that DHS was involved with DeSantis's human trafficking scheme.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:37 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Shipped back out in less than 48 hours! How NIMBY! One of the wealthiest areas in the US can't deal with 48 people. Imagine living in Texas.

DeSantis is a genius. I hope and pray Migrants are settled all across the US in every state. Open borders for all as it should be.
What are you talking about? They were moved to the mainland, where there are more resources. They are still on the Cape, far as I know, at Otis Joint Base.

Martha's Vineyard was a particularly unsuitable area for migrants. It's an island. The Cape is much more flexible.

(Just to be clear, they were moved less than twenty miles.)

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Old 21st September 2022, 01:37 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Shipped back out in less than 48 hours! How NIMBY! One of the wealthiest areas in the US can't deal with 48 people. Imagine living in Texas.

DeSantis is a genius. I hope and pray Migrants are settled all across the US in every state. Open borders for all as it should be.



If you knew anything at all about Martha's Vineyard, you would know that all the "wealthy" people you are talking about there have already left to return to their regular homes. The vast majority of those still there are the permanent residents - the workers, cleaners. shop assistants, small business owners, fishermen and people in other service industries.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:44 PM   #340
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What are you talking about? They were moved to the mainland, where there are more resources. They are still on the Cape, far as I know, at Otis Joint Base.

Martha's Vineyard was a particularly unsuitable area for migrants. It's an island. The Cape is much more flexible.
Indeed! That probably why scumbag DeSantis chose it. There would be almost no work for migrants on the island at this time of your, which means they would have to go to the mainland for work. The Wood's Hole ferry is $20 return per person. That is expensive if you have to do it daily, and more if you want to take anything with such as a bike.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:46 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why are you on and on about this? That woman's word seems to be good enough for everyone on every other point. Why not this one?
You seem to have ignored my post. She said they were given the paperwork before the flight. You seem to think that this means immediately before the flight, but as I pointed out, the DHS says such paperwork is given to migrants during their initial processing.

Maybe she actually thought it was right before the flight, or maybe she was just saying that it was some time before the flight (which is true). In any case, we have pretty good evidence that it was at the time of their arrival in the US, so there's no need to insist otherwise.

Quote:
I already said her spew shouldn't be considered as fact, pages ago. And you will notice that I said it "seems" DHS was present based on her "testimony". It's no skin off my rear, either way. But the way she tells it, that was the case.
Again, no, there is ambiguity in the statement, “Before they boarded the planes, the migrants were processed by agents of the Department of Homeland Security who listed falsified addresses on the migrants’ paperwork.” I'll agree that in context, it's natural to suppose she meant that it was right before the flight, but she did not explicitly say so and hence there's no reason to cling to this supposition in the face of contrary evidence.



Quote:
Remember, I am OK with the actions of DeSantis.
Sure. Because why not lie to a bunch of migrants, risking their court appointments and moving them to an island, if you can score political points? It really does seem win/win, doesn't it?
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:50 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You seem to have ignored my post
You're missing what Warp is saying. He has no evidence of his claim that DHS was involved and, thus, does not provide any legitimacy to DeSantis's failed stunt.

Nothing else in Warp's post makes any difference.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:53 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
You're missing what Warp is saying...
And I would add: Desantis could have flown a bunch of migrants into an active volcano and the right-wing response would be largely the same.
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Old 21st September 2022, 01:53 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed! That probably why scumbag DeSantis chose it. There would be almost no work for migrants on the island at this time of your, which means they would have to go to the mainland for work. The Wood's Hole ferry is $20 return per person. That is expensive if you have to do it daily, and more if you want to take anything with such as a bike.
The Falmouth ferry is a bit cheaper and more useful (if you don't need a car ferry). People do commute to Martha's Vineyard, after all, but these folks are rather better situated than migrants with limited English skills and no work permits in any case.

DeSantis perhaps chose the Vineyard because Tucker Carlson, deep thinker, had a bit about how the folks there are particularly white and want diversity for others, not for themselves. It's a bit odd, since the Vineyard has a long history of being a vacation destination for African Americans, but whatever. I'm sure that the homeowners do skew pretty damned white, even if the tourist population is more diverse.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:00 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Sure. Because why not lie to a bunch of migrants, risking their court appointments and moving them to an island, if you can score political points? It really does seem win/win, doesn't it?

Yes, this does seem like a win for him. No doubt Trump's base loves this stuff. And this sort of thing can really pay dividends for him should he assume the mantle.

And I don't care much about these migrants, tbh. Once I found out that no matter what we can't expel the Venezuelans (like we do others), it made me less sympathetic. They probably shouldn't even be here in the first place. Mexico won't even take them, lol.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:06 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What are you talking about? They were moved to the mainland, where there are more resources. They are still on the Cape, far as I know, at Otis Joint Base.

Martha's Vineyard was a particularly unsuitable area for migrants. It's an island. The Cape is much more flexible.

(Just to be clear, they were moved less than twenty miles.)
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
https://www.dropbox.com/s/664p82n747...tamp.png?raw=1

If you knew anything at all about Martha's Vineyard, you would know that all the "wealthy" people you are talking about there have already left to return to their regular homes. The vast majority of those still there are the permanent residents - the workers, cleaners. shop assistants, small business owners, fishermen and people in other service industries.
NIMBY is going to be the new slogan for the Democrat Party.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:08 PM   #347
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While I believe what Texas and Florida has done is abusive and cruel, I do believe that the southern border states are unfairly being expected to carry an unfair burden for our illegal immigrant population. Texas has around the same GDP as New York but twice as many illegal immigrants to feed house educate and clothe. It's not fair.

I believe the federal government should step in and evenly distribute illegal immigrants around the country so no one city or state has such an extreme unfair burden.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:13 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The Falmouth ferry is a bit cheaper and more useful (if you don't need a car ferry). People do commute to Martha's Vineyard, after all, but these folks are rather better situated than migrants with limited English skills and no work permits in any case.
And people like migrants and asylums seeker are not going to command the sort of salaries that would allow $80-$100 pw to be spent on ferry commutes.

Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
DeSantis perhaps chose the Vineyard because Tucker Carlson, deep thinker, had a bit about how the folks there are particularly white and want diversity for others, not for themselves. It's a bit odd, since the Vineyard has a long history of being a vacation destination for African Americans, but whatever. I'm sure that the homeowners do skew pretty damned white, even if the tourist population is more diverse.
You are probably right there, and its worth noting that neither Faux news nor Tuckums has made any mention of how MV residents responded to the arrival of those asylum seekers with compassion and generosity.

Yeah... NIMBY Libs, right?
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:13 PM   #349
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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s (R) office is pushing back against a class-action lawsuit filed by a group of Venezuelan migrants the state flew to Martha’s Vineyard, Mass., calling it an act of “political theater.”

“It is opportunistic that activists would use illegal immigrants for political theater,” DeSantis Communications Director Taryn Feske said in a statement Tuesday.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:19 PM   #350
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
While I believe what Texas and Florida has done is abusive and cruel, I do believe that the southern border states are unfairly being expected to carry an unfair burden for our illegal immigrant population. Texas has around the same GDP as New York but twice as many illegal immigrants to feed house educate and clothe. It's not fair.

I believe the federal government should step in and evenly distribute illegal immigrants around the country so no one city or state has such an extreme unfair burden.
This.

Immigrants should be placed in every state and jurisdiction within the US. We cannot expect 2 or 3 states to handle the current influx entirely on their own.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:23 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
NIMBY is going to be the new slogan for the Democrat Party.
I really suggest you take that course in Critical Thinking. And maybe one in logic and rational thinking as you don't seem to understand why your view is neither.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:24 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yes, this does seem like a win for him. No doubt Trump's base loves this stuff. And this sort of thing can really pay dividends for him should he assume the mantle.

And I don't care much about these migrants, tbh. Once I found out that no matter what we can't expel the Venezuelans (like we do others), it made me less sympathetic. They probably shouldn't even be here in the first place. Mexico won't even take them, lol.
Yeah, okay, **** 'em, am I right?

Not much point discussing the appropriateness of DeSantis's li'l scheme if the Venezuelans don't really count as people we should care about. I reckon I'm done.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:26 PM   #353
phiwum
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
While I believe what Texas and Florida has done is abusive and cruel, I do believe that the southern border states are unfairly being expected to carry an unfair burden for our illegal immigrant population. Texas has around the same GDP as New York but twice as many illegal immigrants to feed house educate and clothe. It's not fair.

I believe the federal government should step in and evenly distribute illegal immigrants around the country so no one city or state has such an extreme unfair burden.
It's not a stupid argument. There are, of course, issues that migrants are likely to want to live near family and friends.

But while there's an argument to be made for spreading the cost more evenly among states, it's not really the topic of this thread.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:29 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
While I believe what Texas and Florida has done is abusive and cruel, I do believe that the southern border states are unfairly being expected to carry an unfair burden for our illegal immigrant population. Texas has around the same GDP as New York but twice as many illegal immigrants to feed house educate and clothe. It's not fair.

I believe the federal government should step in and evenly distribute illegal immigrants around the country so no one city or state has such an extreme unfair burden.
As long as this is done honestly, in good faith, and the migrants/refugees/asylum-seekers...

- are not lied to about benefits they would receive.
- are not sent to places that are ill-equipped to deal with them.
- are not sent with falsified residential addresses.
- are not sent to a destination that is as far away as possible from where their court date is set.

... and the destination state/city gives their consent, then I agree, other states should bear some of the burden of dealing with them.

Of course, we need to recognise that the term "good faith" is incompatible with conservative philosophy.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:30 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Yeah, okay, **** 'em, am I right?

Not much point discussing the appropriateness of DeSantis's li'l scheme if the Venezuelans don't really count as people we should care about. I reckon I'm done.

I mean it is just nauseating. These folks show up from their dump of a country, and we have no choice but to take them in because nobody else will accept them. They get shipped to MA, and now they are filing a lawsuit? And no doubt, liberals are cheering them on.

This country is jacked up.
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Old 21st September 2022, 02:45 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Goodness. That is one dumbass accusation of informal fallacies. (Not, mind you, that I thought much of Stacy's post either.)



There was no settlement to be had on the Vineyard. No arrangements were made. Indeed, the migrants didn't even think they were going to the Vineyard. A better location was found a short distance away. No harm was done.

On the other hand, DeSantis (or his minions) lied to the migrants to convince them to board a plane to the Vineyard. They were told they would receive benefits for which they did not qualify. They were told they were going to Boston. Weird that you're concerned about a twenty mile relocation from an island to a more practical mainland site but not concerned about the deception that placed them on the island to begin with (well over a thousand miles from scheduled court appearances).
I think the Migrants (or Immigrants as the case may be) should be allowed to settle anywhere they wish in the US. It's a hard sell that there is no housing or jobs available at Martha's Vineyard.

I'm certain none were expecting to be living at a Military base.
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:01 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
It's not a stupid argument. There are, of course, issues that migrants are likely to want to live near family and friends.

But while there's an argument to be made for spreading the cost more evenly among states, it's not really the topic of this thread.
If I was trying to migrate to the US, I'd be rather miffed if I wasn't permitted to settle in my city/state of choice.

I would be even more upset, if upon arriving to someone elses choice of destination, being promised jobs and shelter, the people receiving me asked 'who are you and why are you here. Finding out that there are no jobs, shelter, and I was unexpected, and then to find the person who sent me pointing and laughing 'We pranked you Both! LOL!'

But thats racist conservatives, anything to troll the libs.
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:12 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I mean it is just nauseating. These folks show up from their dump of a country, and we have no choice but to take them in because nobody else will accept them. They get shipped to MA, and now they are filing a lawsuit? And no doubt, liberals are cheering them on.

This country is jacked up.
From a position of privilege it's easy to show little empathy. If you don't want liberals going on and on about privilege, at the very least, RECOGNIZE the reality

It's not their fault their country is a dump, not by any reasonable measure. Meanwhile the U.S. has a large enough economy, sustained in some parts heavily by immigrants, to take in more desperate people without making a huge difference economically.

And DeSantis played them of course he'll get a negative reaction for ***** sake. Don't play dumb.
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:15 PM   #359
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
I think the Migrants (or Immigrants as the case may be) should be allowed to settle anywhere they wish in the US. It's a hard sell that there is no housing or jobs available at Martha's Vineyard.

I'm certain none were expecting to be living at a Military base.
Nonetheless, their basic human needs are being looked after there, housed and fed on that base... and more...

https://www.capecodtimes.com/story/n...n/10400680002/
"Bourne Public Schools Superintendent Kerri Anne Quinlan-Zhou said Monday that the district's administrative team has been in contact with representatives from Joint Base Cape Cod regarding the migrant children."
"Waquoit Congregational Church members have been at Joint Base Cape Cod since Friday when the 50 migrants who arrived on Martha's Vineyard unexpectedly last Wednesday were brought to the base for longer-term accommodations.

The church, in Falmouth, has brought 10 or 12 Spanish-speaking members of the community to help with translation for the people housed at the base, many of whom don't speak English"
Cape Cod and other organizations in the region are joining forces to help the 50 migrants, including four families, who are now being housed at Joint Base Cape Cod after unexpectedly finding themselves on Martha’s Vineyard.

Alisa Magnotta, chief executive officer of the Housing Assistance Corporation in Hyannis, said her staff will work with Father Bills & MainSpring in Brockton to help figure out next steps regarding shelter assistance and permanent housing options.
I guess it must really chap your arse that these people are being treated with kindness and compassion by caring people. As for accommodation, this is an example of what Joint Base Cape Cod will use to house these people...




... and this is the Trump/GOP solution


NOTE: This photograph was taken by the photographer working for the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General on June 10, 2019, at Border Patrol Station in McAllen, Texas. Any claims you see later by ChrisBFRPKY or others, that this was a 2014 photo from the Obama era, are outright, bare-faced lies
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Old 21st September 2022, 03:26 PM   #360
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Some of you guys are attempting to use logic to argue with a Bigfoot believer. Just sayin'.
Pretty much the same folks are trying to use it against warped thinking. Another fail.
DeSantis's stunt -- and that's all it is -- was designed to appeal to the Trumper base. The ignorant, the racist, the pseudo-patriots. As can be seen in this thread, it has totally succeeded.
DeSantis sees this sort of ass-holery as the road to the Republican nomination in 2024. That's if Trump himself doesn't run, of course. I expect he's right about that. Very, very, far right. I'd like to think it won't work in his favor in a general election. I may be wrong.
Back in 2016 I swore I'd be emigrating to Canada if Trump won. I should have followed through with that.
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