Missouri Book Ban Law Proposal - Page 14

pgwenthold · 29th November 2022, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

What liberal ideas are bad?

Pineapple on pizza

arayder · 29th November 2022, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Those laws intent is not to protect children from porn, violence, or sex. It's to "protect" them from liberal ideas.

Originally Posted by Warp12

That is not necessarily a bad thing, depending on the "idea".

Warp, that's your admission of a desire to suppress freedom of expression and inquiry.

That's un-American!

When I was a kid I'd go to the library and get the writings of the politicians and political thinkers of the time.

Much of it was pretty tame, mainstream stuff but some of it was pretty radical. I had to start at a reading level appropriate to my age. But eventually I worked up to adult level material.

I read about the Black Panthers and learned what a libertarian was. I read William F. Buckley and didn't turn into a conservative. I read James Baldwin and didn't turn into a gay black activist. I read Barry Goldwater's stuff and read what the Kennedy's had to say.

My family knew what I was reading and we talked about much of it.

One day I brought home a copy of the stage play "Boys in the Band" and my family was ok with that. The librarian knew I was broadening my world and she didn't bat an eye when I checked it out.

I don't see what you are so danged afraid of.

Or maybe you're just acting out a pathological hatred of liberals?

Either way, friend, you have wandered in fascist territory here.

bluesjnr · 29th November 2022, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Sorry, gonna stop you right here. You were the one who claimed that recognizing Warp's anti-gay rhetoric was only "one interpretation" (your emphasis). As I pointed out (with links), believing he meant anything else requires ignoring what Warp himself said.

Now, you are free to ignore what Warp says when interpreting Warp's comments and the comments made in reply to him, but no one else has to put on such blinders.

Ok, but to what end?

Nitpick -I certainly did not say there was only one interpretation.

sackett · 29th November 2022, 11:03 AM

If government gives money to an organization, it can legitimately look at how the organization spends the money, i.e., audit its financial procedures. You couldn't do things any other way.

And if a government tries to interfere with a library's lending procedures, we all of us have the right and, some would say, the obligation to yell their little playhouse down.

Unless yelling doesn't suffice. Then we take to the streets. You couldn't do things any other way.

wareyin · 29th November 2022, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Ok, but to what end?

Nitpick -I certainly did not say there was only one interpretation.

Reading comprehension should have informed you that I didn't claim you said there "was only one" interpretation, but that you said arayder's (and everyone else who isn't playing either contrarian or willfully blind) interpretation was "only one" out of more than one valid interpretations.

As to your confusion about "to what end" discussing other's comments leads, I'll just let that ironic statement sit and mature gracefully.

mgidm86 · 29th November 2022, 03:08 PM

No answer yet to the question of why libraries need such laws while the internet, movie theaters and bookstores do not. Not surprised.

Aren't libraries pretty tame compared to what a child can see from these other sources?

I guess libraries are the biggest purveyors of porn and illicit subject matter! Go get 'em!

Of all the things the Repubs could do to make this country better and safer. ~~Guns, racism, police reform, doing their jobs~~, libraries. Thanks Repubs!!!

I mean wow. Libraries. Same ****, different century.

Foster Zygote · 29th November 2022, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

What liberal ideas are bad?

You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them.

pgwenthold · 29th November 2022, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them.

Nickelback

(I don't know, that just might be over the line)

Foster Zygote · 29th November 2022, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

Nickelback

(I don't know, that just might be over the line)

Whoah! Who mentioned anything about crimes against humanity?

bruto · 29th November 2022, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them.

I don't know if in this particular case it's the instance, but I think many people do not believe they need to identify actual policies or actions. Liberalism itself is the principle, a package whose contents need not be enumerated. Ideology tends to work on broad definitions. Call a person a communist or a socialist, or in some quarters a liberal, and that identifies them as members of an out group, excluded by category, outside the wall. Even in those increasingly rare cases when truth is important, details are not.

Stacyhs · 29th November 2022, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

One thing is for sure, there is definitely a fixation on homosexuality in this thread. Oddly, since the proposed legislation is simply about policies and procedures as related to age-appropriate materials.

This seems like a lobbying effort for a "Do Say Gay" initiative. It is comical.

29th November 2022, 10:17 AM	#521
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 21,103	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken What liberal ideas are bad? Pineapple on pizza
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

29th November 2022, 10:39 AM	#522
arayder Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,377	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Those laws intent is not to protect children from porn, violence, or sex. It's to "protect" them from liberal ideas. Originally Posted by Warp12 That is not necessarily a bad thing, depending on the "idea". Warp, that's your admission of a desire to suppress freedom of expression and inquiry. That's un-American! When I was a kid I'd go to the library and get the writings of the politicians and political thinkers of the time. Much of it was pretty tame, mainstream stuff but some of it was pretty radical. I had to start at a reading level appropriate to my age. But eventually I worked up to adult level material. I read about the Black Panthers and learned what a libertarian was. I read William F. Buckley and didn't turn into a conservative. I read James Baldwin and didn't turn into a gay black activist. I read Barry Goldwater's stuff and read what the Kennedy's had to say. My family knew what I was reading and we talked about much of it. One day I brought home a copy of the stage play "Boys in the Band" and my family was ok with that. The librarian knew I was broadening my world and she didn't bat an eye when I checked it out. I don't see what you are so danged afraid of. Or maybe you're just acting out a pathological hatred of liberals? Either way, friend, you have wandered in fascist territory here.
arayder Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,377	Last edited by arayder; 29th November 2022 at 10:41 AM.

29th November 2022, 10:53 AM	#523
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Home. Posts: 11,187	Originally Posted by wareyin Sorry, gonna stop you right here. You were the one who claimed that recognizing Warp's anti-gay rhetoric was only "one interpretation" (your emphasis). As I pointed out (with links), believing he meant anything else requires ignoring what Warp himself said. Now, you are free to ignore what Warp says when interpreting Warp's comments and the comments made in reply to him, but no one else has to put on such blinders. Ok, but to what end? Nitpick -I certainly did not say there was only one interpretation.
	__________________ "OTP? I don' need no steenkin' OTP!"

29th November 2022, 11:03 AM	#524
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 8,386	If government gives money to an organization, it can legitimately look at how the organization spends the money, i.e., audit its financial procedures. You couldn't do things any other way. And if a government tries to interfere with a library's lending procedures, we all of us have the right and, some would say, the obligation to yell their little playhouse down. Unless yelling doesn't suffice. Then we take to the streets. You couldn't do things any other way.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power. Last edited by sackett; 29th November 2022 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Not to scare Warp or anything like that.

29th November 2022, 03:08 PM	#526
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	No answer yet to the question of why libraries need such laws while the internet, movie theaters and bookstores do not. Not surprised. Aren't libraries pretty tame compared to what a child can see from these other sources? I guess libraries are the biggest purveyors of porn and illicit subject matter! Go get 'em! Of all the things the Repubs could do to make this country better and safer. ~~Guns, racism, police reform, doing their jobs~~, libraries. Thanks Repubs!!! I mean wow. Libraries. Same ****, different century.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	__________________ Why bother? Last edited by mgidm86; 29th November 2022 at 03:10 PM.

29th November 2022, 11:15 AM	#525
wareyin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 11,828	Originally Posted by bluesjnr Ok, but to what end? Nitpick -I certainly did not say there was only one interpretation. Reading comprehension should have informed you that I didn't claim you said there "was only one" interpretation, but that you said arayder's (and everyone else who isn't playing either contrarian or willfully blind) interpretation was "only one" out of more than one valid interpretations. As to your confusion about "to what end" discussing other's comments leads, I'll just let that ironic statement sit and mature gracefully.

29th November 2022, 03:19 PM	#527
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 20,738	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken What liberal ideas are bad? You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them.
	__________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

29th November 2022, 03:38 PM	#528
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 21,103	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them. Nickelback (I don't know, that just might be over the line)
	__________________ "As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets

29th November 2022, 03:56 PM	#529
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 20,738	Originally Posted by pgwenthold Nickelback (I don't know, that just might be over the line) Whoah! Who mentioned anything about crimes against humanity?
	__________________ Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.

29th November 2022, 03:59 PM	#530
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 34,758	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote You know - the freakish ones being pressed on children by public school teacher and librarians. They're so bad Warp can't even mention them. I don't know if in this particular case it's the instance, but I think many people do not believe they need to identify actual policies or actions. Liberalism itself is the principle, a package whose contents need not be enumerated. Ideology tends to work on broad definitions. Call a person a communist or a socialist, or in some quarters a liberal, and that identifies them as members of an out group, excluded by category, outside the wall. Even in those increasingly rare cases when truth is important, details are not.
	__________________ Like many humorless and indignant people, he is hard on everybody but himself, and does not perceive it when he fails his own ideal (Molière) A pedant is a man who studies a vacuum through instruments that allow him to draw cross-sections of the details (John Ciardi)

29th November 2022, 07:48 PM	#531
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 30,273	Originally Posted by Warp12 One thing is for sure, there is definitely a fixation on homosexuality in this thread. Oddly, since the proposed legislation is simply about policies and procedures as related to age-appropriate materials. This seems like a lobbying effort for a "Do Say Gay" initiative. It is comical.