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Old 8th September 2019, 12:35 PM   #1
Fonebone
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Leslie Robertson computer generated plans

Welding's vital part in major American historical events AWS
https://www.aws.org/resources/detail...elding-history

excerpt :
For the World Trade Center, Leslie E. Robertson, a partner in charge of the
New York office of Skilling, Helle, Christiansen, Robertson, said a computer was used
to produce the drawing lists, beam schedules, column
details and all schedules for exterior wall panels.

These cards gave fabricators the width, length, thickness and grade of
steel of every plate and section in all of the columns and panels.

Millions of IBM cards were then sent to every fabricator.
"In addition," he said, "the fabricators are given all of the requirements
of every weld needed to make up the columns and panels. Many of
these cards are used as equatable to the production of drawings.
They are sent directly from the designer to the fabricators.
Draftsmen never become involved." /excerpt


Fonebone<

Millions of IBM punch cards with all of the steel parameters i.e. grades need to be located
for an accurate assessment of the exact strength of the twin towers-
no doubt the same system of logistics and construction
requirements were employed during the WTC7 project using more modern computers.

These computer generated fabrication records nead to be likewise tracked
down and dissected in order to estimate the exact strength of the WTC7
tower. Only accurate information will produce accurate collapse scenarios.
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Last edited by Fonebone; 8th September 2019 at 12:36 PM. Reason: separate excerpt from comment
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Old 8th September 2019, 10:02 PM   #2
beachnut
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
...

Millions of IBM punch cards with all of the steel parameters i.e. grades need to be located
for an accurate assessment of the exact strength of the twin towers-
no doubt the same system of logistics and construction
requirements were employed during the WTC7 project using more modern computers.

These computer generated fabrication records nead to be likewise tracked
down and dissected in order to estimate the exact strength of the WTC7
tower. Only accurate information will produce accurate collapse scenarios.
NIST already knew the strength of WTC tower steel, you are behind a decade, or more.

You failed to read the NIST reports. Supporting the lies of 9/11 truth, and not knowing this is old news, is 9/11 truth standard operating procedures.

WTC 7 was not designed by Robertson.

This is why you are fooled by 9/11 truth, a lack of knowledge on the structure of the towers and WTC 7.
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Old 8th September 2019, 11:56 PM   #3
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Welding's vital part in major American historical events AWS
https://www.aws.org/resources/detail...elding-history

excerpt :
For the World Trade Center, Leslie E. Robertson, a partner in charge of the
New York office of Skilling, Helle, Christiansen, Robertson, said a computer was used
to produce the drawing lists, beam schedules, column
details and all schedules for exterior wall panels.

These cards gave fabricators the width, length, thickness and grade of
steel of every plate and section in all of the columns and panels.

Millions of IBM cards were then sent to every fabricator.
"In addition," he said, "the fabricators are given all of the requirements
of every weld needed to make up the columns and panels. Many of
these cards are used as equatable to the production of drawings.
They are sent directly from the designer to the fabricators.
Draftsmen never become involved." /excerpt


Fonebone<

Millions of IBM punch cards with all of the steel parameters i.e. grades need to be located
for an accurate assessment of the exact strength of the twin towers-
no doubt the same system of logistics and construction
requirements were employed during the WTC7 project using more modern computers.

These computer generated fabrication records nead to be likewise tracked
down and dissected in order to estimate the exact strength of the WTC7
tower. Only accurate information will produce accurate collapse scenarios.
And?

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I AGREE
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Old 9th September 2019, 04:27 AM   #4
ozeco41
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
And?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Ahhh. Memories.

Guess what IBM model I learned to program on.

...initially using Fortran 2

Circa 1969...

The 1401 was an "accounting" computer in the days when computers were either "commercial" or "scientific". Fully expanded it had 16K of core memory. Yes "K" and yes "core". Any current 'phone would walk rings around it in processing power.

I can still write machine level code for it AI02B76B987C12A <<< NOT Tested. I wrote myself a symbolic programming assembler to link subroutines into the Fortran 4 system Thereby allowing the accounting - high capacity i/o - machine to progress large data files of engineering records that otherwise slowed the fortran i/o system to a crawl...

Ahh... Memories
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Old 9th September 2019, 04:48 AM   #5
Captain_Swoop
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As usual the only evidence needed to settle thungs is the evidence that isn't available.

Why do you think these punch cards are important?
They wil only contain information that ids already known.
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Old 9th September 2019, 06:04 AM   #6
pgimeno
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I think that Fonebone's idea is that with that information, a better FEA can be performed that conclusively proves one thing or another.

He is wrong, of course, for three basic reasons.

1. The collapse is basically a chaotic, butterfly-effect kind of event. Little variations of the starting conditions can easily lead to a different collapse sequence where, for example, the timing of the WPH collapse is different, or the façade folds more, or less, or stands for a while more after the fall of the penthouse.

2. The current simulation techniques don't allow for a precise, bolt-by-bolt, connection-by-connection, plate-by-plate, etc. simulation of the collapse, and simplifications are necessary, because otherwise the computation could simply not be performed: in the best case, the simulation would take thousands of years to complete; in the worst case, the algorithms would never converge and the programs would be unable to ever finish the simulation.

3. There are lots, many lots of unknowns, so many that they are impossible to consider. Engineering analysis tends to be conservative, but real-world situations tend to be non-conservative. It's possible that the fuel load in one floor was extraordinarily high, in a way that no engineering analysis has yet considered. It's possible that certain elements had suffered protective material corrosion due to, for example, repairs, and were more vulnerable to fire and less resistant due to the corrosion, and such thing would never be considered in an engineering analysis, which could then never exactly reproduce the collapse. Some floors could be much more loaded (with heavy stuff) than considered by analysts, playing a role on the fragility of the floors. The damage caused by the fall of WTC1 that couldn't be observed could possibly have affected core columns. And so on and on and on.

For all these reasons, NIST was never able to reproduce the actual collapse. Hulsey's simulations, where no elements collide with others, can just be safely discarded as not even an attempt at physical realism.
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Old 9th September 2019, 09:43 PM   #7
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NIST knew what grades of steel were called out in the plans and they tested samples of actual steel from the building as well as testing the strength and failure modes of welds used in the building before making their simulations.

While the computer card details might be interesting they will add nothing to the conclusions.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:40 AM   #8
Norman Alexander
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And of course the suppliers and builders built the original WTC precisely to the exact specification as written on those punch cards. They never used newer, better steels, or steels of slightly different sizes, or made holes just a fraction off position that didn't make a difference to the overall build... After all, no allowances are ever made in building for tolerances or movements, etc. Oh wait. Yes they are.

In other words, what was built probably was not 100% exactly precisely what was on those cards, with 0% error anywhere.
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:23 AM   #9
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post

Millions of IBM punch cards with all of the steel parameters i.e. grades need to be located
for an accurate assessment of the exact strength of the twin towers-
no doubt the same system of logistics and construction
requirements were employed during the WTC7 project using more modern computers.

These computer generated fabrication records nead to be likewise tracked
down and dissected in order to estimate the exact strength of the WTC7
tower. Only accurate information will produce accurate collapse scenarios.
Can you highlight where Hulsey used this information in his report? As you say, only accurate information will produce accurate collapse scenarios.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:55 AM   #10
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It seems painfully obvious that the number of variables and in MOST cases their "value" makes it impossible to model the actual collapse. What can be done is limit the values and then assign best guesses to many of them and run a "cartoon" sim model which will produce a collapse but one that does not closely resemble the real world. If the assumptions for the variables both in number and in value are "reasonable" produces a total collapse... then this proves a non CD was possible... and probable.

Too many people are quick to dismiss the NIST sim model because it does not match real world... and the scenario of failures leading to the collapse.. nit picking details. The only take away is that which THAT scenario/sequence may not be THE scenario/sequence... and that there will be another one which does match real world... But there are way to many variables to run all sims to find a perfect match. These computer models consume enormous computing power and time.

+++++

Whatever the "sequence" and the values of the data... the form of the collapse was in the DNA of the structure.
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Old 10th September 2019, 07:11 AM   #11
MileHighMadness
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Punch Cards? They are probably long gone.
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Old 10th September 2019, 08:11 AM   #12
Wolrab
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I'd bet all the construction materials were way above standard as all those Mom and Pop construction firms wanted to look good. Mom and Pop? I meant Family Owned firms. Heck, they were even pro-union!
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