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Old 11th September 2019, 11:28 AM   #1
ElMondoHummus
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On this 18th anniversary of the event: Anything new?

Been away for a while. Anything new? I see in the index another thread on the debris, the eternal thread about the AE911T petition, another paper about the fires and 7 World Trade, a thread that Richard Gage got married (huh, good for him. He needs the stability), CE posting about a David Icke book (why David Icke??)… anyway, I don't expect conspiracists to come up with completely new theories, but have there been any new developments to the standard truther points in the last couple of years? I confess, I haven't been paying attention.
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Old 11th September 2019, 12:35 PM   #2
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I haven't seen anything, yet. But I'm not into the minority of people who browse the Truther organizations or websites. Might get a bit of fence sitting "critical thinkers" that might post some nonsense on one of the many sites, but I'll wait for the more active guys/gals to report.
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Old 11th September 2019, 01:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Been away for a while. Anything new? I see in the index another thread on the debris, the eternal thread about the AE911T petition, another paper about the fires and 7 World Trade, a thread that Richard Gage got married (huh, good for him. He needs the stability), CE posting about a David Icke book (why David Icke??)… anyway, I don't expect conspiracists to come up with completely new theories, but have there been any new developments to the standard truther points in the last couple of years? I confess, I haven't been paying attention.
The Professor who accepted US$316 from Gage to find that explosives killed WTC7 refuses to find explosives killed the WTC7. However, he put out a draft for public comment where he proved 4 vital facts:
  1. If you don't do a sufficiently complete and detailed computer model of the building, you stand no chance to replicate the NIST analysis
  2. If you magically make the columns under the East Penthouse disappear 7 seconds before you make all the other columns magically disappear, the East Penthouse will fall 7 seconds earlier
  3. If you magically make the other core columns disappear 1.3 seconds before you make all the columns of the perimeter magically disappear, the core will fall a bit earlier than the north wall
  4. If you magically make all columns of the north wall disappear, the north wall will fall at free fall acceleration

I admit I feel a bit dumb now after all these years. If I had known that Gage would pay $316K for this stupid level of GIGO, I would have offered him the same at 80% of the price tag, pretend I work on it for 4 years, and enjoy getting a hero's celebration.
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Old 11th September 2019, 02:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The Professor who accepted US$316 from Gage to find that explosives killed WTC7 refuses to find explosives killed the WTC7. However, he put out a draft for public comment where he proved 4 vital facts:
  1. If you don't do a sufficiently complete and detailed computer model of the building, you stand no chance to replicate the NIST analysis
  2. If you magically make the columns under the East Penthouse disappear 7 seconds before you make all the other columns magically disappear, the East Penthouse will fall 7 seconds earlier
  3. If you magically make the other core columns disappear 1.3 seconds before you make all the columns of the perimeter magically disappear, the core will fall a bit earlier than the north wall
  4. If you magically make all columns of the north wall disappear, the north wall will fall at free fall acceleration

I admit I feel a bit dumb now after all these years. If I had known that Gage would pay $316K for this stupid level of GIGO, I would have offered him the same at 80% of the price tag, pretend I work on it for 4 years, and enjoy getting a hero's celebration.
Neat Summary.
Are you putting it into public domain for free use or do you prefer full citation?
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Old 11th September 2019, 02:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ozeco41 View Post
Neat Summary.
Are you putting it into public domain for free use or do you prefer full citation?
It would make a beautiful signature

I'd like to get credit
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Old 11th September 2019, 03:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I admit I feel a bit dumb now after all these years. If I had known that Gage would pay $316K for this stupid level of GIGO, I would have offered him the same at 80% of the price tag, pretend I work on it for 4 years, and enjoy getting a hero's celebration.

But isn't part of the alleged trick that it's a professor? Why would they pay you 80%?
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Old 11th September 2019, 03:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I admit I feel a bit dumb now after all these years. If I had known that Gage would pay $316K for this stupid level of GIGO, I would have offered him the same at 80% of the price tag, pretend I work on it for 4 years, and enjoy getting a hero's celebration.
$316K? ZOMG.

Yeah, I would've sold out too.
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Old 11th September 2019, 04:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
But isn't part of the alleged trick that it's a professor? Why would they pay you 80%?
I understand the physics of 9/11 at least 80% as well as Professor H.
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Old 11th September 2019, 04:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I understand the physics of 9/11 at least 80% as well as Professor H.

That's an unevidenced claim and not a serious answer to my question why they would pay you 80% of what he got if their trick is to make their claims seem approved by the academy.
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Old 11th September 2019, 04:32 PM   #10
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Personally I'm trying to keep myself 9/11 literate, or as much as possible, so I've been reading and re-reading some of the more important threads here and about WTC7.
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Old 11th September 2019, 04:43 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That's an unevidenced claim and not a serious answer to my question why they would pay you 80% of what he got if their trick is to make their claims seem approved by the academy.
Are you labouring under the impression that my offer to do it for 80% of US$ 316K was serious?!?

But Hulsey and physics is not exactly a match made in heaven. I remember back in 2015, when Hulsey was struggling mightily to understand his assistants, who tried to explain to him how you convert °C to °F. Hulsey seemed only very vaguely aware of the importance of such conversions.
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Old 11th September 2019, 07:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
It would make a beautiful signature
Nearly as good as the quote in DGM's sig - which is generic and not time limited.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I'd like to get credit
Deal. With username appropriate to the setting.

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Old 11th September 2019, 11:13 PM   #13
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There is a new book, The Only Plane in the Sky: An Oral History of 9-11, by Garret M Graff that covers the communications transcripts or NORAD, the White House, and all air assets involved. There are also fresh interviews with everyone involved.

This is an excerpt:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...excerpt-228001

Quote:
Lt. Col. Marc Sasseville, F-16 pilot, U.S. Air Force: As we’re going out to the jets, Lucky and I had a quick conversation about what it is that we were going to do and how we were basically going to do the unthinkable if we had to.

Lt. Heather “Lucky” Penney: We would be ramming the aircraft. We didn’t have [missiles] on board to shoot the airplane down. As we were putting on our flight gear in the life support shop, Sass looked at me and said, “I’ll ram the cockpit.” I made the decision I would take the tail off the aircraft.

Lt. Col. Marc Sasseville: We didn’t have a whole lot of options.

Lt. Heather “Lucky” Penney: I had never been trained to scramble [mobilize] the aircraft. It would typically take about 20 minutes to start the jets, get the avionics systems going, go through all the preflight checks to make sure the systems were operating properly, program the computers in the aircraft. That’s not even including the time to look at the forms, do the walk-around of the airplane, and whatnot. We usually planned about half-an-hour to 40 minutes from the time you walked out the door to the time that you actually took off.
The History Channel aired, 9/11: Inside Air Force One

https://www.history.com/specials/911...-air-force-one

This has new interviews with Bush, Cheney, Card, and just about everyone. Couple of things stand out:

Cheney gives the order to shoot down unresponsive aircraft and although the President confirms the order there is a serious question about the sequence of events. Officially the story is that Bush gave the order to Cheney yet it is the only conversation between the two that was not documented. Not that it was a big deal.

Story here:

https://www.history.com/news/septemb...er-cheney-bush

The other interesting factoid is that the CIA was still pushing back against the White House about passing intelligence about Al Qaeda to the NSC claiming that this information was embargoed.

New details emerge every year abotu 9-11. Nothing about an inside job.
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:46 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
There is a new book, The Only Plane in the Sky: An Oral History of 9-11, by Garret M Graff that covers the communications transcripts or NORAD, the White House, and all air assets involved. There are also fresh interviews with everyone involved.

This is an excerpt:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...excerpt-228001



The History Channel aired, 9/11: Inside Air Force One

https://www.history.com/specials/911...-air-force-one

This has new interviews with Bush, Cheney, Card, and just about everyone. Couple of things stand out:

Cheney gives the order to shoot down unresponsive aircraft and although the President confirms the order there is a serious question about the sequence of events. Officially the story is that Bush gave the order to Cheney yet it is the only conversation between the two that was not documented. Not that it was a big deal.

Story here:

https://www.history.com/news/septemb...er-cheney-bush

The other interesting factoid is that the CIA was still pushing back against the White House about passing intelligence about Al Qaeda to the NSC claiming that this information was embargoed.

New details emerge every year abotu 9-11. Nothing about an inside job.
As you have pointed out a few times, there was a fatal disconnect in all the agencies involved concerning sharing of information on AQ, UBL, KSM and possible plans.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:21 PM   #15
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"9/11:Inside Air Force One" is well worth watching; I am sure THC will repeat it sometime this week.

The fuss about the shoot down order really does not amount to much. Given the circumstances, it was a no brainer.And given that seconds counted, I can see why Cheney decided to ignore the usual CHain Of Command and give the order.
It was a horrible order to give,but absolutely the right one under the circumstances.



IMHO it is still puzzling why Air Force One was so behind the times, even by 2001 Tech standards,in communications . That BUsh did not actually see the footage of the attacks until he reached Offut Air Force Base is startlng. I think it was the WH CHief of Staff who said in the show that the average person watching CNN at home knew more about what was going on then the people in Air Force One. No wonder it got a huge electronics upgrade a couple of weeks after 9/11.

Nothing really new for the Consiracy theorist here.though I am sure they will find something to scream Inside Job about. They always do.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:23 PM   #16
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I also just bought "The Only Plane In The Sky:An Oral History of 9/11" which came out on Tuesday and looks really good.
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Old 12th September 2019, 03:09 PM   #17
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More and more I'm seeing truthers both online and in fringe media drift to the LIHOP scenario, unless I'm just seeing things.

I think in the back of their minds they always saw the demolition nonsense as untenable on basic self cross-examination.
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Old 12th September 2019, 03:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
More and more I'm seeing truthers both online and in fringe media drift to the LIHOP scenario, unless I'm just seeing things.

I think in the back of their minds they always saw the demolition nonsense as untenable on basic self cross-examination.
Some Truthers push both LIHOP and MIHOP scenarios at the same time...…as incredible as that may sound.
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