White House Survivor - Page 64

The Great Zaganza · 15th November 2020, 09:41 AM

Promotion in the Empire is quick - because the top echelons keep getting force-choked.

d4m10n · 15th November 2020, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Two senior DHS officials have been forced to resign.

The assistant director for cybersecurity and the assistant secretary for international affairs

Looks like the head of cybersecurity is in a bad spot as well.

https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/...31339485331456

acbytesla · 15th November 2020, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Two senior DHS officials have been forced to resign.

The assistant director for cybersecurity and the assistant secretary for international affairs

It doesn't matter much. If their positions were political appointed jobs, they would be gone in 45 days anyway.. Trump is livid that the AD for cybersecurity refuted his claims that the election was rigged.

PhantomWolf · 17th November 2020, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

Promotion in the Empire is quick - because the top echelons keep getting force-choked.

To be fair, we only see Vader dispose of two officers in this way, and with at least one of them it is inferred they have failed Vader multiple times. Admiral Peitt survived a similar failure.

Now having said that it is clear that officers were aware of Vader's actions and punishments, so...

I'd also note that Thrawn had a slightly different technique, if someone failed him then it was the trainer of the person that paid the price. And far from canon, when I used to RP as what would now be considered an Imperial Intelligence DeathTrooper Commando, my character had a reputation for throwing people out of airlocks if they crossed them. So yeah, it was a thing, but not all of them got force choked.

Even the Emperor didn't just force choke those that disappointed him. check out the ways he executed Bevel Lemelisk. Yes, I did say "ways", he kept having him cloned and executed again, seven times!

quadraginta · 17th November 2020, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

<snip>

Even the Emperor didn't just force choke those that disappointed him. check out the ways he executed Bevel Lemelisk. Yes, I did say "ways", he kept having him cloned and executed again, seven times!

A textbook case of overkill.

Armitage72 · 17th November 2020, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

To be fair, we only see Vader dispose of two officers in this way, and with at least one of them it is inferred they have failed Vader multiple times. Admiral Peitt survived a similar failure.

Now having said that it is clear that officers were aware of Vader's actions and punishments, so...

There was a Robot Chicken sketch that revealed that Vader doesn't actually have the power to choke people. His underlings just pretend that he does so he doesn't shoot them or cut them in half. When he holds out his hand, they pretend to choke, collapse to the floor, and their coworkers drag them away. Later, they return to work wearing a fake beard or mustache.

Dr. Keith · 17th November 2020, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

There was a Robot Chicken sketch that revealed that Vader doesn't actually have the power to choke people. His underlings just pretend that he does so he doesn't shoot them or cut them in half. When he holds out his hand, they pretend to choke, collapse to the floor, and their coworkers drag them away. Later, they return to work wearing a fake beard or mustache.

That's brilliant.

Armitage72 · 17th November 2020, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Keith

That's brilliant.

Found it.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

d4m10n · 17th November 2020, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Looks like the head of cybersecurity is in a bad spot as well.

https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/...31339485331456

Aaaaaand he's gone

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52352787484677

Norman Alexander · 17th November 2020, 05:41 PM

The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either.

Meadmaker · 17th November 2020, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

Aaaaaand he's gone

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52352787484677

Shameless.

But we knew that.

Dr. Keith · 18th November 2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Found it.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Thanks.

dudalb · 18th November 2020, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either.

One former US Attonrey who worked with Rudy when Rudy was going after the Mob Bosses said he can't believe the smart lawyer who got the first serious convictiions in ages on previous untourchable Mafis Dons is now doing stuff that would get him a F grade in any decent Law School.

timhau · 18th November 2020, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

One former US Attonrey who worked with Rudy when Rudy was going after the Mob Bosses said he can't believe the smart lawyer who got the first serious convictiions in ages on previous untourchable Mafis Dons is now doing stuff that would get him a F grade in any decent Law School.

Everything Trump touches, dies.

ponderingturtle · 19th November 2020, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

I've been thinking more about this in the waning days of Trump's reign, and what continues to amaze me (though it doesn't really surprise me) is the death star mentality we keep seeing. What could possibly possess a person at this stage to join Trump's toppling team?

Doesn't seem to stop people in totalitarian states. Did Stalin really have difficulty filling the openings he made?

Segnosaur · 19th November 2020, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Quote:

I've been thinking more about this in the waning days of Trump's reign, and what continues to amaze me (though it doesn't really surprise me) is the death star mentality we keep seeing. What could possibly possess a person at this stage to join Trump's toppling team?

Doesn't seem to stop people in totalitarian states. Did Stalin really have difficulty filling the openings he made?

A big difference is that nobody knew when Stalin would leave power. Someone promoted to a higher office could spend years with more power and a higher rank, and if they thought they could avoid any purges, might end up doing even better in the future.

Trump as a "best before" date. Despite some MAGAchuds thinking Trump might still win the election, most people with even a smidgeon of brains realize he's out of office in January. Even if you survive Trump's regular temper tantrums, getting promoted at this point will just give you a few extra months, after which you become just another Trump bootlicker (which doesn't look good on the resume for many people).

alfaniner · 19th November 2020, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

A big difference is that nobody knew when Stalin would leave power. Someone promoted to a higher office could spend years with more power and a higher rank, and if they thought they could avoid any purges, might end up doing even better in the future.

Trump as a "best before" date. Despite some MAGAchuds thinking Trump might still win the election, most people with even a smidgeon of brains realize he's out of office in January. Even if you survive Trump's regular temper tantrums, getting promoted at this point will just give you a few extra months, after which you become just another Trump bootlicker (which doesn't look good on the resume for many people).

Trump knows he himself has a "Use by..." date for his Office. And he's going to do things to his full extent before that time is up. Bad things.

turingtest · 19th November 2020, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Trump knows he himself has a "Use by..." date for his Office. And he's going to do things to his full extent before that time is up. Bad things.

Yep. (Link is to Politico via MSN)-

Quote:

While Trump still refuses to concede the election, the Senate GOP is moving quickly to ensure that the president’s stamp sticks to the Federal Elections Commission, Federal Reserve Board, the federal judiciary and beyond.

The effort played out in dramatic fashion this week, as Senate Republicans tried to muscle Judy Shelton onto the Fed by the narrowest of margins but fell short amid senators’ absences from the coronavirus. They’re also plotting a confirmation vote for Christopher Waller, Trump’s less controversial Fed pick.

The last-minute push to confirm Shelton, Waller and others is a key part of the Senate GOP’s bid to wield power in the dwindling days of a Republican presidency — even if most in the party still won’t acknowledge Biden’s victory.
...
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) is moving quickly to advance a new tranche of judicial nominees, including Thomas Kirsch to take a seat on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals to replace Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett. Democrats are protesting the committee moving forward on new judicial nominees after Trump’s defeat, but Graham dismissed their concerns in an interview.

The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president."

The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "****, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has been heard and our president is a lame duck!"

The Don · 20th November 2020, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

Yep. (Link is to Politico via MSN)-

The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president."

The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "****, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has been heard and our president is a lame duck!"

....and from 2021 until 2025 the excuse will be "we cannot consider any nominations from a President where the legitimacy of election itself is in doubt"

zooterkin · 21st November 2020, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by turingtest

The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president."

The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "****, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has been heard and our president is a lame duck!"

Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case.

Meadmaker · 21st November 2020, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case.

When the Constitution was written, before steam, it was even later. I think it was March 4. It was sometime in March.

Today, with airplanes and teleconferencing, it really ought to be very fast, so I think an amendment is in order. The lame duck period is bad for the country, in my opinion. I'm puzzled why counting the votes and settling the related disputes take so much longer here than in other countries. I suppose it's related to the fact that we have fifty one ways of casting votes, and sometimes it isn't even uniform in a state.

ETA: But I haven't a call for such an amendment that would be taken seriously, i.e. either from a prominent politician or from major media outlets.

The Great Zaganza · 21st November 2020, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case.

actually, the two months are barely enough to for a normal transition, because so many posts must change hands.
The only way to shorten the time would be to make far more positions permanent instead of politically appointed.

Trebuchet · 21st November 2020, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

actually, the two months are barely enough to for a normal transition, because so many posts must change hands.

The only way to shorten the time would be to make far more positions permanent instead of politically appointed.

I think the March date was a carryover from the Julian calendar.
For transition, the election winner becomes President December one but the outgoing is President emeritus or some such, retaining a White House office for a while.

turingtest · 21st November 2020, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case.

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

When the Constitution was written, before steam, it was even later. I think it was March 4. It was sometime in March.

Today, with airplanes and teleconferencing, it really ought to be very fast, so I think an amendment is in order. The lame duck period is bad for the country, in my opinion. I'm puzzled why counting the votes and settling the related disputes take so much longer here than in other countries. I suppose it's related to the fact that we have fifty one ways of casting votes, and sometimes it isn't even uniform in a state.

ETA: But I haven't a call for such an amendment that would be taken seriously, i.e. either from a prominent politician or from major media outlets.

As Meadmaker says, no, there have been no serious conversations about shortening that lame duck period. I can see TGZ's point here too, that the federal government is a big, complicated machine that a new set of drivers need time to get in gear properly; in normal circumstances (i.e., with a lame duck President who isn't throwing a hissy fit about being one), that wouldn't be an issue. But Trump's presidency seems, if nothing else, to be a lesson in how that machine can be broken by someone determined to make his successor's voter-sanctioned use of it a failure from the get-go. Maybe, instead of shortening the lame-duck period, some provisions could be made, via Constitutional amendment if necessary, that would limit an outgoing President's ability to kneecap the next guy- for example, no SC justices (even other federal judges) to be nominated during this period. And I've seen where Mnuchin has taken some action (Reuters article), re the Fed, that will impact the economy well into Biden's term, even if he reverses the action quickly- that might be another area that could be addressed by limitations on lame duck Presidential action.

Hell, you would think the GOP would be at least half on board for something like this, based on their mealy-mouthed antics in Obama's last year. And I predict that if a SC vacancy occurs during Biden's last year in office before an election (never mind after his possible defeat in it), they will revive their empty "let the people have a voice!" rhetoric. Their standards are like their rhetoric though, entirely situational and tactical- they would never support such limitations on lame ducks if he's one of theirs, so it's better to not be bound by them in any way stronger than easily-disavowed speechifying.

Orphia Nay · 21st November 2020, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either.

I do hope you win that bet.

Stacyhs · 22nd November 2020, 06:06 PM

Sidney Powell didn't last long.

a_unique_person · 22nd November 2020, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either.

Even more reason for Trump to not pay him.

Trebuchet · 22nd November 2020, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Sidney Powell didn't last long.

Wait what? (Googles)
Well that didn't take long. Apparently she's a Q-nut. Or maybe Rudi thought she made him look bad.
Hint for Rudi: It wasn't her that made you look stupid.

The Great Zaganza · 22nd November 2020, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Sidney Powell didn't last long.

I wonder if she managed to piss away Flynn's chance at a Pardon with her failure to torpedo the vote count.

Safe-Keeper · 30th November 2020, 10:05 PM

Scott Atlas resigns.

The Great Zaganza · 30th November 2020, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Scott Atlas resigns.

it's a bit late to leave the ship when it has already sunk.

PhantomWolf · 1st December 2020, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

it's a bit late to leave the ship when it has already sunk.

He was only a Temp hire, he had 131 days and that was ending this week.

PhantomWolf · 1st December 2020, 04:04 PM

Odds on if Trump is going to fire Barr for saying that there was no election fraud?

bruto · 1st December 2020, 04:46 PM

There's always been a tendency for bad actors and criminals to reach a certain point and then "find god" or the like, thus getting away with a bunch of stuff. I somehow suspect that this is the latest Trump-staff gesture. See how long you can suck on the administration teat and then, at the last minute, get yourself honorably fired.

quadraginta · 1st December 2020, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

There's always been a tendency for bad actors and criminals to reach a certain point and then "find god" or the like, thus getting away with a bunch of stuff. I somehow suspect that this is the latest Trump-staff gesture. See how long you can suck on the administration teat and then, at the last minute, get yourself honorably fired.

I'm not sure about that last part.

Getting fired by Trump just means you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass well enough or often enough to keep him from getting pissed at you. It doesn't mean you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass.

Getting hired by him in the first place ought to forestall any ability to get honorably fired.

bruto · 1st December 2020, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

I'm not sure about that last part.

Getting fired by Trump just means you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass well enough or often enough to keep him from getting pissed at you. It doesn't mean you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass.

Getting hired by him in the first place ought to forestall any ability to get honorably fired.

Of course, but the people involved don't necessarily think that way. The rats that jump off the ship of fools don't remember what they once were, only that they jumped. The last minute conversion wipes out a lifetime of sin.

dudalb · 1st December 2020, 08:17 PM

Barr broke with Trump over the charges of massive election fraud.You cannot take foot on the deck of the SS Trump White House withour stepping on rats fleeing the ship.

Craig4 · 1st December 2020, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Barr broke with Trump over the charges of massive election fraud.You cannot take foot on the deck of the SS Trump White House withour stepping on rats fleeing the ship.

Ray will get canned right after Barr. Barr announced it but it was the FBI that investigated.

The Great Zaganza · 1st December 2020, 11:50 PM

Generally, I would say that firing Barr and Wray would be stupid.

But for his fans, it might not be. It might give his voting fraud CT more life.

Armitage72 · 4th December 2020, 07:05 AM

Dr. Fauci has accepted an offer to retain his current position in President Biden's administration.
Dead man walking!

15th November 2020, 09:41 AM	#2521
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,866	Promotion in the Empire is quick - because the top echelons keep getting force-choked. there is a beautiful SW series called The Freemaker Adventures, which feature among others an Imperial Officer hell-bent on never getting promoted for exactly that reason.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

15th November 2020, 11:35 AM	#2522
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,685	Originally Posted by Armitage72 Two senior DHS officials have been forced to resign. The assistant director for cybersecurity and the assistant secretary for international affairs Looks like the head of cybersecurity is in a bad spot as well. https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/...31339485331456
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

15th November 2020, 11:41 AM	#2523
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,587	Originally Posted by Armitage72 Two senior DHS officials have been forced to resign. The assistant director for cybersecurity and the assistant secretary for international affairs It doesn't matter much. If their positions were political appointed jobs, they would be gone in 45 days anyway.. Trump is livid that the AD for cybersecurity refuted his claims that the election was rigged.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

17th November 2020, 12:43 AM	#2524
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,392	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza Promotion in the Empire is quick - because the top echelons keep getting force-choked. there is a beautiful SW series called The Freemaker Adventures, which feature among others an Imperial Officer hell-bent on never getting promoted for exactly that reason. To be fair, we only see Vader dispose of two officers in this way, and with at least one of them it is inferred they have failed Vader multiple times. Admiral Peitt survived a similar failure. Now having said that it is clear that officers were aware of Vader's actions and punishments, so... I'd also note that Thrawn had a slightly different technique, if someone failed him then it was the trainer of the person that paid the price. And far from canon, when I used to RP as what would now be considered an Imperial Intelligence DeathTrooper Commando, my character had a reputation for throwing people out of airlocks if they crossed them. So yeah, it was a thing, but not all of them got force choked. Even the Emperor didn't just force choke those that disappointed him. check out the ways he executed Bevel Lemelisk. Yes, I did say "ways", he kept having him cloned and executed again, seven times!
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

17th November 2020, 06:59 AM	#2525
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,271	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf <snip> Even the Emperor didn't just force choke those that disappointed him. check out the ways he executed Bevel Lemelisk. Yes, I did say "ways", he kept having him cloned and executed again, seven times! A textbook case of overkill.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

17th November 2020, 09:06 AM	#2526
Armitage72 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 5,417	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf To be fair, we only see Vader dispose of two officers in this way, and with at least one of them it is inferred they have failed Vader multiple times. Admiral Peitt survived a similar failure. Now having said that it is clear that officers were aware of Vader's actions and punishments, so... There was a Robot Chicken sketch that revealed that Vader doesn't actually have the power to choke people. His underlings just pretend that he does so he doesn't shoot them or cut them in half. When he holds out his hand, they pretend to choke, collapse to the floor, and their coworkers drag them away. Later, they return to work wearing a fake beard or mustache.

17th November 2020, 02:35 PM	#2527
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,933	Originally Posted by Armitage72 There was a Robot Chicken sketch that revealed that Vader doesn't actually have the power to choke people. His underlings just pretend that he does so he doesn't shoot them or cut them in half. When he holds out his hand, they pretend to choke, collapse to the floor, and their coworkers drag them away. Later, they return to work wearing a fake beard or mustache. That's brilliant.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

17th November 2020, 05:32 PM	#2529
d4m10n Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 6,685	Originally Posted by d4m10n Looks like the head of cybersecurity is in a bad spot as well. https://twitter.com/FrankFigliuzzi1/...31339485331456 Aaaaaand he's gone https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52352787484677
	__________________ "Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

17th November 2020, 05:41 PM	#2530
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 9,158	The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

17th November 2020, 05:46 PM	#2531
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,512	Originally Posted by d4m10n Aaaaaand he's gone https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52352787484677 Shameless. But we knew that.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?

18th November 2020, 03:21 PM	#2533
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,537	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either. One former US Attonrey who worked with Rudy when Rudy was going after the Mob Bosses said he can't believe the smart lawyer who got the first serious convictiions in ages on previous untourchable Mafis Dons is now doing stuff that would get him a F grade in any decent Law School.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

18th November 2020, 10:19 PM	#2534
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,513	Originally Posted by dudalb One former US Attonrey who worked with Rudy when Rudy was going after the Mob Bosses said he can't believe the smart lawyer who got the first serious convictiions in ages on previous untourchable Mafis Dons is now doing stuff that would get him a F grade in any decent Law School. Everything Trump touches, dies.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

19th November 2020, 05:36 AM	#2535
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,743	Originally Posted by bruto I've been thinking more about this in the waning days of Trump's reign, and what continues to amaze me (though it doesn't really surprise me) is the death star mentality we keep seeing. What could possibly possess a person at this stage to join Trump's toppling team? Doesn't seem to stop people in totalitarian states. Did Stalin really have difficulty filling the openings he made?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

19th November 2020, 08:06 AM	#2536
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,340	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Quote: I've been thinking more about this in the waning days of Trump's reign, and what continues to amaze me (though it doesn't really surprise me) is the death star mentality we keep seeing. What could possibly possess a person at this stage to join Trump's toppling team? Doesn't seem to stop people in totalitarian states. Did Stalin really have difficulty filling the openings he made? A big difference is that nobody knew when Stalin would leave power. Someone promoted to a higher office could spend years with more power and a higher rank, and if they thought they could avoid any purges, might end up doing even better in the future. Trump as a "best before" date. Despite some MAGAchuds thinking Trump might still win the election, most people with even a smidgeon of brains realize he's out of office in January. Even if you survive Trump's regular temper tantrums, getting promoted at this point will just give you a few extra months, after which you become just another Trump bootlicker (which doesn't look good on the resume for many people).
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

19th November 2020, 08:32 AM	#2537
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 25,059	Originally Posted by Segnosaur A big difference is that nobody knew when Stalin would leave power. Someone promoted to a higher office could spend years with more power and a higher rank, and if they thought they could avoid any purges, might end up doing even better in the future. Trump as a "best before" date. Despite some MAGAchuds thinking Trump might still win the election, most people with even a smidgeon of brains realize he's out of office in January. Even if you survive Trump's regular temper tantrums, getting promoted at this point will just give you a few extra months, after which you become just another Trump bootlicker (which doesn't look good on the resume for many people). Trump knows he himself has a "Use by..." date for his Office. And he's going to do things to his full extent before that time is up. Bad things.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

19th November 2020, 09:38 AM	#2538
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,735	Originally Posted by alfaniner Trump knows he himself has a "Use by..." date for his Office. And he's going to do things to his full extent before that time is up. Bad things. Yep. (Link is to Politico via MSN)- Quote: While Trump still refuses to concede the election, the Senate GOP is moving quickly to ensure that the president’s stamp sticks to the Federal Elections Commission, Federal Reserve Board, the federal judiciary and beyond. The effort played out in dramatic fashion this week, as Senate Republicans tried to muscle Judy Shelton onto the Fed by the narrowest of margins but fell short amid senators’ absences from the coronavirus. They’re also plotting a confirmation vote for Christopher Waller, Trump’s less controversial Fed pick. The last-minute push to confirm Shelton, Waller and others is a key part of the Senate GOP’s bid to wield power in the dwindling days of a Republican presidency — even if most in the party still won’t acknowledge Biden’s victory. ... Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) is moving quickly to advance a new tranche of judicial nominees, including Thomas Kirsch to take a seat on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals to replace Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett. Democrats are protesting the committee moving forward on new judicial nominees after Trump’s defeat, but Graham dismissed their concerns in an interview. The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president." The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "***, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has* been heard and our president is a lame duck!"
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

20th November 2020, 01:18 AM	#2539
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,614	Originally Posted by turingtest Yep. (Link is to Politico via MSN)- The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president." The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "***, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has* been heard and our president is a lame duck!" ....and from 2021 until 2025 the excuse will be "we cannot consider any nominations from a President where the legitimacy of election itself is in doubt"

21st November 2020, 09:08 AM	#2540
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,833	Originally Posted by turingtest The GOP in 2016, when Obama had a SC nomination with almost a year left in his duly-elected presidency- "no, no, we should wait for the voice of the people to be heard before we advance any noms by a lame-duck president." The GOP in 2020, when Trump pushes nominations with just two months remaining in his duly-rejected presidency- "***, we gotta hurry up, the voice of the people has* been heard and our president is a lame duck!" Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

21st November 2020, 09:18 AM	#2541
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,512	Originally Posted by zooterkin Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case. When the Constitution was written, before steam, it was even later. I think it was March 4. It was sometime in March. Today, with airplanes and teleconferencing, it really ought to be very fast, so I think an amendment is in order. The lame duck period is bad for the country, in my opinion. I'm puzzled why counting the votes and settling the related disputes take so much longer here than in other countries. I suppose it's related to the fact that we have fifty one ways of casting votes, and sometimes it isn't even uniform in a state. ETA: But I haven't a call for such an amendment that would be taken seriously, i.e. either from a prominent politician or from major media outlets.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information? Last edited by Meadmaker; 21st November 2020 at 09:19 AM.

21st November 2020, 09:37 AM	#2542
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,866	Originally Posted by zooterkin Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case. actually, the two months are barely enough to for a normal transition, because so many posts must change hands. The only way to shorten the time would be to make far more positions permanent instead of politically appointed.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

21st November 2020, 11:34 AM	#2543
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,279	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza actually, the two months are barely enough to for a normal transition, because so many posts must change hands. The only way to shorten the time would be to make far more positions permanent instead of politically appointed. I think the March date was a carryover from the Julian calendar. For transition, the election winner becomes President December one but the outgoing is President emeritus or some such, retaining a White House office for a while.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

21st November 2020, 05:14 PM	#2544
turingtest Mistral, mistral wind... Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Embedded and embattled, reporting from Mississippi Posts: 4,735	Originally Posted by zooterkin Talking of lame ducks, has there been any serious proposal to reduce the time between the result of the election being known, and the new president taking over? I imagine the two months were originally needed in order to count the votes and get the representatives together in the age of horse and steam, but that's no longer the case. Originally Posted by Meadmaker When the Constitution was written, before steam, it was even later. I think it was March 4. It was sometime in March. Today, with airplanes and teleconferencing, it really ought to be very fast, so I think an amendment is in order. The lame duck period is bad for the country, in my opinion. I'm puzzled why counting the votes and settling the related disputes take so much longer here than in other countries. I suppose it's related to the fact that we have fifty one ways of casting votes, and sometimes it isn't even uniform in a state. ETA: But I haven't a call for such an amendment that would be taken seriously, i.e. either from a prominent politician or from major media outlets. As Meadmaker says, no, there have been no serious conversations about shortening that lame duck period. I can see TGZ's point here too, that the federal government is a big, complicated machine that a new set of drivers need time to get in gear properly; in normal circumstances (i.e., with a lame duck President who isn't throwing a hissy fit about being one), that wouldn't be an issue. But Trump's presidency seems, if nothing else, to be a lesson in how that machine can be broken by someone determined to make his successor's voter-sanctioned use of it a failure from the get-go. Maybe, instead of shortening the lame-duck period, some provisions could be made, via Constitutional amendment if necessary, that would limit an outgoing President's ability to kneecap the next guy- for example, no SC justices (even other federal judges) to be nominated during this period. And I've seen where Mnuchin has taken some action (Reuters article), re the Fed, that will impact the economy well into Biden's term, even if he reverses the action quickly- that might be another area that could be addressed by limitations on lame duck Presidential action. Hell, you would think the GOP would be at least half on board for something like this, based on their mealy-mouthed antics in Obama's last year. And I predict that if a SC vacancy occurs during Biden's last year in office before an election (never mind after his possible defeat in it), they will revive their empty "let the people have a voice!" rhetoric. Their standards are like their rhetoric though, entirely situational and tactical- they would never support such limitations on lame ducks if he's one of theirs, so it's better to not be bound by them in any way stronger than easily-disavowed speechifying.
	__________________ I'm tired of the bombs, tired of the bullets, tired of the crazies on TV; I'm the aviator, a dream's a dream whatever it seems Deep Purple- "The Aviator" Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King

21st November 2020, 08:10 PM	#2545
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 38,801	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either. I do hope you win that bet.
	__________________ "We stigmatize and send to the margins people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid" - Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".

22nd November 2020, 06:06 PM	#2546
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,221	Sidney Powell didn't last long.

22nd November 2020, 06:19 PM	#2547
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,081	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander The way Rudi is spectacularly failing to succeed at spoiling the election, I'm betting he will not survive the Trump reign either. Even more reason for Trump to not pay him.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

22nd November 2020, 06:20 PM	#2548
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,279	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Sidney Powell didn't last long. Wait what? (Googles) Well that didn't take long. Apparently she's a Q-nut. Or maybe Rudi thought she made him look bad. Hint for Rudi: It wasn't her that made you look stupid.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

22nd November 2020, 10:42 PM	#2549
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,866	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Sidney Powell didn't last long. I wonder if she managed to piss away Flynn's chance at a Pardon with her failure to torpedo the vote count.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

30th November 2020, 10:05 PM	#2550
Safe-Keeper Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway Posts: 10,396	Scott Atlas resigns.
	__________________ "He's like a drunk being given a sobriety test by the police after being pulled over. Just as a drunk can't walk a straight line, Trump can't think in a straight line. He's all over the place."--Stacyhs "If you are still hung up on that whole words-have-meaning thing, then 2020 is going to be a long year for you." --Ladewig

30th November 2020, 10:53 PM	#2551
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,866	Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper Scott Atlas resigns. it's a bit late to leave the ship when it has already sunk.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

1st December 2020, 04:03 PM	#2552
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,392	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza it's a bit late to leave the ship when it has already sunk. He was only a Temp hire, he had 131 days and that was ending this week.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

1st December 2020, 04:04 PM	#2553
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,392	Odds on if Trump is going to fire Barr for saying that there was no election fraud?
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

1st December 2020, 04:46 PM	#2554
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,217	There's always been a tendency for bad actors and criminals to reach a certain point and then "find god" or the like, thus getting away with a bunch of stuff. I somehow suspect that this is the latest Trump-staff gesture. See how long you can suck on the administration teat and then, at the last minute, get yourself honorably fired.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

1st December 2020, 06:07 PM	#2555
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility (USA, sort of) Posts: 26,271	Originally Posted by bruto There's always been a tendency for bad actors and criminals to reach a certain point and then "find god" or the like, thus getting away with a bunch of stuff. I somehow suspect that this is the latest Trump-staff gesture. See how long you can suck on the administration teat and then, at the last minute, get yourself honorably fired. I'm not sure about that last part. Getting fired by Trump just means you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass well enough or often enough to keep him from getting pissed at you. It doesn't mean you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass. Getting hired by him in the first place ought to forestall any ability to get honorably fired.
	__________________ "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

1st December 2020, 07:09 PM	#2556
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 28,217	Originally Posted by quadraginta I'm not sure about that last part. Getting fired by Trump just means you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass well enough or often enough to keep him from getting pissed at you. It doesn't mean you didn't lie, cheat, steal, or kiss his ass. Getting hired by him in the first place ought to forestall any ability to get honorably fired. Of course, but the people involved don't necessarily think that way. The rats that jump off the ship of fools don't remember what they once were, only that they jumped. The last minute conversion wipes out a lifetime of sin.
	__________________ I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver) Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

1st December 2020, 08:17 PM	#2557
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,537	Barr broke with Trump over the charges of massive election fraud.You cannot take foot on the deck of the SS Trump White House withour stepping on rats fleeing the ship.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.