IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags political predictions , political speculation , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 7th January 2021, 11:34 AM   #2601
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,998
Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

Last edited by Firestone; 7th January 2021 at 11:43 AM.
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 11:53 AM   #2602
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,537
You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 12:25 PM   #2603
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 31,279
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.
And it doesn't make them any less than rats. They've spent four years enabling and now they want to save their reputations. Too late for that!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 12:28 PM   #2604
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 50,743
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19
Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 12:35 PM   #2605
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,220
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You could walk to shore on top of the Rats now abadonoing the sinking ship.
Are we sure that they waited until now just to confirm that Biden won?

Which means they are losing their jobs anyway in two weeks.

How many have given 2 weeks notice?

And Chao is leaving so she can avoid having to sign off on the 25th amendment removal

If she had principles, she'd stay and lead the charge
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 12:52 PM   #2606
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,513
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Handy way to duck out of a vote on to use the 25th amendment or not.
My first thought as well.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 01:56 PM   #2607
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 02:01 PM   #2608
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,220
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
I was calling for it on Nov 6. I said the VP needs to act now because there is no telling how much damage could be done.

Got more than 500 likes. One of my most popular tweets ever.

I knew something ugly was coming. The options of what it would actually be was too great, but it was clear he was unhinged and had to be taken out of the loop.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 02:21 PM   #2609
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 13,414
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
Indeed, you are quite correct.

However, in politics, appearances often define reality and the current appearance is that is extremely obvious just what a stupid, disgusting, dangerous, POS Trump actually is.
__________________
I can barely believe that I made it through the Trump presidency.

On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."

A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 03:22 PM   #2610
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,537
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 03:34 PM   #2611
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 25,514
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao is resigning, per two officials. Cites yesterday’s events as reason in email to DOT colleagues, per draft. First Cabinet secretary to resign. Chao is married to Mitch McConnell.

“Our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I'm sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.” —Chao says.

Resignation effective next Monday.

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/...138614789?s=19
I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case.
__________________
Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?
Meadmaker is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 03:39 PM   #2612
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,986
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
Section 4 doesn't say anything about why he is considered unable to discharge the duties of office. And it's clearly written in a way that anticipates the President is capable of objecting to being removed.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 03:45 PM   #2613
Firestone
Proud Award Award recipient
 
Firestone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 2,998
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I wonder if she made it Monday instead of immediately so that she could still get in on some 25th action, just in case.
If so, a risky calculation.

If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot.

If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency.
__________________
The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

Last edited by Firestone; 7th January 2021 at 03:47 PM.
Firestone is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 03:48 PM   #2614
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,986
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
If so, a risky calculation.

If Trump denies he's incapacitated, the VP and the cabinet have 4 days to confirm his incapacitation. Then it goes to Congress, they can sit it out for 21 days. By then it's moot.

If Chao is the swing vote in the cabinet, she's still needed in the cabinet to respond to Trump's response. If Trump waits until Tuesday to respond, and there's no majority in the cabinet against him, he regains the full power of the presidency.
I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 04:23 PM   #2615
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 17,340
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't understand why people think the 25th is suddenly applicable just now; Trump's health and mental state are unchanged.
Maybe, but that might not necessarily matter.

After all, if a cabinet member gets involved with invoking the 25th amendment, I don't think they will be subject to any sort of criminal prosecution if it is decided either that "Trump was always insane and you just ignored it", or "Trump is sane, and you invoked the 25th, but he gave you reasons to believe he had gone nuts".

I think the goal is to get Trump out of office before he can cause more havoc... nobody will complain about "is he really nuts?" if they manage to achieve that goal.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 04:26 PM   #2616
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 17,340
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
I'll note in this thread too, that the bar is set higher for removal under the 25th than it is for impeachment. Both houses have to have 2/3 majorities to confirm the removal.
Not sure if that will matter much.

In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.

ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot

Last edited by Segnosaur; 7th January 2021 at 04:28 PM.
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 04:26 PM   #2617
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,322
what changed is there may be enough political will to remove him from office
dirtywick is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 05:42 PM   #2618
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think that he treid to stage a Coup yesterday has a lot to do with it.
That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:03 PM   #2619
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,322
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
That's impeachable, to be sure, but it's unclear what is has to do w/ the wording of the 25th.
it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated
dirtywick is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:19 PM   #2620
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated
Nope.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:30 PM   #2621
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,322
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Nope.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
I’m almost convinced, tell me more.

edit: the majority of the cabinet sends a letter to congress declaring him unfit, and they vote on it. there’s no set definition of what qualifies as unfit. So it’s up to them

Last edited by dirtywick; 7th January 2021 at 06:32 PM.
dirtywick is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:32 PM   #2622
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,986
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not sure if that will matter much.

In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.

ETA: My mistake... it was actually a poster in this thread, a few posts above mine.
A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:37 PM   #2623
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,587
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
it’s really up to congress what qualifies as him being incapacitated
Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS.

The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:41 PM   #2624
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,322
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Also, the 25th amendment doesn't say "incapacitated". It says "incapable" of discharging the duties of POTUS.

The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution. So yes, it's up to his cabinet and to Congress to define it.
that’s correct thank you
dirtywick is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:42 PM   #2625
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The duties of POTUS include upholding the Constitution.
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined?
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 7th January 2021 at 06:46 PM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:46 PM   #2626
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,986
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this?
Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:49 PM   #2627
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Is your mental capacity only one sentence deep? Read the sentence he typed directly ahead of the one you quoted.
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:50 PM   #2628
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,587
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of doing this, as opposed to merely disinclined?
I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER.

The proof is in the pudding.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 7th January 2021 at 06:52 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:54 PM   #2629
RecoveringYuppy
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,986
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?
This has been explained in baby talk multiple times now. And you're illiterate if you think I said anything like what you're implying.
RecoveringYuppy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 06:58 PM   #2630
jrhowell
Muse
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 714
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?
I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice. I doubt that would help his situation.
jrhowell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:02 PM   #2631
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think he was on January 20th 2017. And the fact is he hasn't, EVER.
I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:02 PM   #2632
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,537
Vos just quit.
One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:04 PM   #2633
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
I suppose Trump could contend that he send the protesters in intentionally as his choice.
He gave the speech in public, so yeah.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:05 PM   #2634
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,322
someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will

of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes
dirtywick is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:11 PM   #2635
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 28,587
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I'm holding to the idea that unable and unwilling are two distinct concepts. We have the 25th for the former, impeachment for the latter.
That's your interpretation and I get it.

But I agree with Wick's post below. Unwilling is incapable.

Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
someone unwilling to uphold the constitution is unable to, due to a lack of will

of course no explanation is needed. if the they invoke the 25th whatever reasoning the choose to apply is irrelevant if it’s enough to get the votes
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:14 PM   #2636
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's your interpretation and I get it.
Have any U.S. appeals courts ever gone for the broader interpretation? Any legal scholars of note?
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:16 PM   #2637
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 28,217
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What makes you think Trump is either physically or mentally incapable of upholding the constitution, as opposed to merely disinclined to do so?
I'm sure others will answer in various flavors, but we're not talking about one policy or another here, but the basic idea of upholding the constitution, and I would suggest that if a person's disinclination to uphold the constitution is so firmly held that he cannot do it, then he is incapable of doing it, even if at some level he is able to say he just doesn't want to.

Of course in this case, I would agree with many that that incapability has been present for a long time, and there's plenty of evidence that he doesn't actually even understand the Constitution, but there's no law as far as I know that says everyone must be on board at some particular time, or miss the boat forever.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:18 PM   #2638
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,685
The 25th Amendment was drafted to cover a specific set of physical or mental incapacities. It is folly to pretend it's intended to function as a backdoor impeachment/removal mechanism as well.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:19 PM   #2639
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 31,279
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Vos just quit.
One of the biggest rats left leaves the ship.
You mean DeVos, sister of the boss of the murders trump pardoned?

Things I don't get: Why do any of these Trumpsters think quitting now is going to somehow save their reps?

Of course, it saves her from having to participate in the 25th amendment stuff.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th January 2021, 07:25 PM   #2640
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 17,340
Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Quote:
In another thread, someone pointed out that while Trump can challenge the 25th, and he may have the support to block the confirmation, the process can be delayed. All they would need to do is slow things down enough so that any vote on his competency wouldn't occur until after Biden was inaugurated, at which point the 25th amendment becomes moot.
A delay is only likely to happen if they want him out of office without a vote. That basically would require McConnell to go rogue. Not impossible. It was his wife that resigned today.
Plus, given the fact that Trump seemed to have torpedoed the Republican's chances in Georgia, and has attacked Moscow Mitch in the past couple of months, I don't think McConnell would feel much loyalty to Trump.

And that's assuming he's still senate Majority leader if the 25th amendment reaches congress. Its possible that the 2 new Democratic senators from georgia might be seated by then, and the Democrats will be in control.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:39 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.