[Continuation] ...knee to the back of the neck while black: until dead. Part 2 - Page 7

Bob001 · 9th June 2020, 08:30 AM

Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

Quote:

He then added: "If all people say my client didn't intercede, if the public was there and they're in uproar about this, they didn't intercede either," Gray said.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 08:31 AM

"Listen no time travelers from the future came back to prevent my client from doing what he was doing, so seriously how bad could the consequences really be?"

Belz... · 9th June 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Unless you're indigenous, then the cops might drop you on the edge of town to freeze to death. Nothing quite like a little walk in the moonlight in the warm Saskatchewan winters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths

How many of those isolated events will you find before you establish a pattern, here?

You're just being a contrarian. I'm sure whatever country I named you'd find some reason to post something like this, as if my comment meant that there are no issues in Canada whatsoever. In this respect now you seem to just be a cynic. If you think it sucks everywhere, then it would seem to indicate that trying to eliminate these issues is pointless, and I don't believe that.

Kestrel · 9th June 2020, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Two cars for a dispute?

A dispute over $20 and the suspect may be drunk or under the influence.

Sending more than one car seems to be standard practice. The 911 operator said that squads would be on the way.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...lls/index.html

That such things are routine is evidence that the police are overfunded.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 9th June 2020, 08:39 AM

Perhaps - and I'm just spitballing here - they thought that the man who was killing someone might kill them, too?

StillSleepy · 9th June 2020, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks

Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread.

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2020, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by StillSleepy

Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread.

Indeed. It's a strange play given that the now infamous video is basically 8 minutes of the crowd begging for Floyd's life.

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2020, 09:35 AM

Portland, Maine police officer shows up at journalists house, threatens arrest because they don't like his tweets about police.

https://twitter.com/c_milneil/status...48066307145729

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2020, 09:42 AM

Ohio National Guard Member Sent Home for White Supremacist Views Is Likely a Fascist YouTuber

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...cist-youtuber/

Quote:

“Well lads it’s time, you will hear of me either tonight or tomorrow in the news,” a June 2 message on a Telegram channel linked to his YouTube presence stated. He posted an acronym coined by white supremacists for “race and holy war.”

“They activated my unit and we’re getting real ammunition to shoot and kill,” he wrote. “Rahowa.”

Seems like a near miss with an armed fascist being deployed to the streets of DC.

bonzombiekitty · 9th June 2020, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks

Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four.

Bob001 · 9th June 2020, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four.

No, the cops carry far more than three or four bullets.

erlando · 9th June 2020, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

*Start laughing, doesn't stop for several hours*

I have had 4 this year just for DUI checkpoints.

I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police.

Darat · 9th June 2020, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Police often want to check out someone that fits their stereotype of a criminal, and invent a pretext for interrogation.

I get pulled over maybe once a week or so, especially late at night and on weekends. Cops see my work truck out after hours, and assume I've been at the bar for hours and am reeling pickled. ...snip...

Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.

Belz... · 9th June 2020, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by erlando

I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police.

Had mine for 17, same number of stops.

I usually go a bit higher than the limit on highways, but even when cops radar me they don't bother with me. They want to catch the bigger fish.

Emily's Cat · 9th June 2020, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

Did you have any interest in continuing our debate from before the weekend? It's fine with me if you wanna drop it, I merely wanted to ask in case it got lost/forgotten over the weekend. Since the thread has been continued, I thought I'd help by linking to where we were:

*Shrug* I kind of feel like we've reached an impasse. Your last comment there..
{quote]Yeah, I'm calling this as an exceptional case of BS both sidesism. "But they would do it too!" is always an equally (in)valid response that is made to deflect from actual problems. Like I said, this is yet another example of your willful ignorance.[/quote]
... leads me to believe that there's not a lot of point to continued discussion on the topic of human behavior, cognitive biases, and tribal instinct.

If you're interested in continuing, I recommend reading this article as a started, and consider checking out some of the other articles and podcasts on that site.

The Illusion of Asymmetric Insight

Emily's Cat · 9th June 2020, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by bruto

You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing.

What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"? Does religion?

Emily's Cat · 9th June 2020, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cabbage

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Are you aware that this oft-referenced concept is a minor footnote in a very large work that actually advocates tolerance as a general principle?

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"?

*Very slowly* "Things you choose to do."

Quote:

Does religion?

Yes. Why wouldn't it?

Emily's Cat · 9th June 2020, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

If I knew a grocery store would never have cops in it, I would only shop there.

So... admitted bigotry?

Ryokan · 9th June 2020, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

It's as if the police are announcing to the public that they operate like organized crime. "Nice shop you have there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."

As long as they don't use the words "quid pro quo", it's a perfect conversation.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

So... admitted bigotry?

Again we've had the "It's bigoted to be bigots of bigots" discussion already. Stop pretending we haven't even if you disagree with it.

Ryokan · 9th June 2020, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

How come they are so common?

And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops.

Delphic Oracle · 9th June 2020, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.

Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.

Thermal · 9th June 2020, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.

Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian?

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2020, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian?

Indeed.

In big cities, the push for increased policing was through stop and frisk. Outside of the cities, it's not as practical to hassle people on foot. Initiating traffic stops is the prime way for police to intrude on citizens about their business in public.

Thermal · 9th June 2020, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ryokan

And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops.

"I pulled you over because of your broken tail light"

"Huh? My taillight is fine"

"So it is. My bad. Drivers licence, registration and insurance cards please. Now. Mind if I look inside? Unless you have something to hide, of course. Is that pot I smell?"

Oh yeah. Been through it.

Eta: also gives a pretext to run the license and find out if there are any outstanding warrants, or no seat belt, or overdue inspection, or any other violations the cop can think of.

SuburbanTurkey · 9th June 2020, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.

Public money is fungible. If DOT money is coming from citations, that means general funds can be diverted to something else. So long as money from citations enter the municipal budget, there will be an incentive to act like parasites.

I grant that removing the direct link between police citations and police budgets would probably help some, but I think the problem would still exist to some lesser extent.

I still suspect the best solution would be to essentially waste the money. Send every citizen a check every year that disburses the money. Even better, have it deducted from their end of year taxes so people hardly even notice it. I would assume it's a nominal value once cut up into so many pieces, so nobody is going to be driven to maximize such money.

Captain_Swoop · 9th June 2020, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.

In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police.

Ryokan · 9th June 2020, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police.

Same in Norway.

And most other civilized countries, I would bet.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 10:58 AM

In America we're lucky if the funds don't go to the individual cop that pulls you over.

alfaniner · 9th June 2020, 11:03 AM

Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.

Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals.

Ryokan · 9th June 2020, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals.

I'm not sure suspicion of something goes on your criminal record.

Checkmite · 9th June 2020, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks

Wait a second - he's essentially saying the public had a duty to riot against the police officers at the scene!?

Myriad · 9th June 2020, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.

Assuming the funeral was, as statistically expected, a Christian ritual, I'm curious as to how you've ascertained the state of Floyd's salvation.

JoeMorgue · 9th June 2020, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

Wait a second - he's essentially saying the public had a duty to riot against the police officers at the scene!?

No he's essentially saying that no matter what happened the cop was right and the public is wrong.

Modified · 9th June 2020, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Public money is fungible. If DOT money is coming from citations, that means general funds can be diverted to something else. So long as money from citations enter the municipal budget, there will be an incentive to act like parasites.

I grant that removing the direct link between police citations and police budgets would probably help some, but I think the problem would still exist to some lesser extent.

I still suspect the best solution would be to essentially waste the money. Send every citizen a check every year that disburses the money. Even better, have it deducted from their end of year taxes so people hardly even notice it. I would assume it's a nominal value once cut up into so many pieces, so nobody is going to be driven to maximize such money.

Disbursement, as you suggest, or at least collection at the federal level. Even collection at the state level would be problematic.

I live in a tourist/snowbird town. Police here do not generally ticket for minor or made-up infractions. I'm sure there is guidance and pressure from local government not to upset the visitors.

Giordano · 9th June 2020, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.

To quote Mark Twain as to proper behavior at a funeral:
"Listen, with as intense an expression of attention as you can command, to the official statement of the character and history of the person in whose honor the entertainment is given; and if these statistics should seem to fail to tally with the facts, in places, do not nudge your neighbor, or press your foot upon his toes, ..."

Frankly I've never attended a funeral that failed to "round up" the positive traits of the deceased and ignore the negative ones; I would expect no less for Floyd.

bruto · 9th June 2020, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

How come they are so common?

Traffic enforcement is one of the major jobs of most police forces, and in many cases that's their rationale for existing. This is quite apart from the negative aspects of this, and the setting up of speed trap towns. On the positive side, this is what cops do most of the time, and when they do it right, all the better.

Of course that's a kind of rose-colored view of it, omitting the many times and instances where traffic stops are used as an excuse for harassment and illegal search and (occasionally, if you're black) summary murder.

Nessie · 9th June 2020, 12:01 PM

Keir Starmer tweeted about Parliament holding a one minute silence for George Floyd and what a catalyst for change this is.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/sta...01447704530946

I looked up the Inquest website about deaths in police custody in the UK and whilst Starmer was head of the CPS, there were approximately 177 deaths in custody. Obviously, none of them were at catalyst for change.

Floyd's death does appear to be a tipping point, where change will happen. I just hope it goes beyond gestures such as taking down status and not showing "Little Britain" on BBC and Netflix.

9th June 2020, 08:31 AM	#242
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	"Listen no time travelers from the future came back to prevent my client from doing what he was doing, so seriously how bad could the consequences really be?"
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th June 2020, 08:33 AM	#243
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,027	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Unless you're indigenous, then the cops might drop you on the edge of town to freeze to death. Nothing quite like a little walk in the moonlight in the warm Saskatchewan winters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths How many of those isolated events will you find before you establish a pattern, here? You're just being a contrarian. I'm sure whatever country I named you'd find some reason to post something like this, as if my comment meant that there are no issues in Canada whatsoever. In this respect now you seem to just be a cynic. If you think it sucks everywhere, then it would seem to indicate that trying to eliminate these issues is pointless, and I don't believe that.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

9th June 2020, 08:39 AM	#245
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 31,391	Perhaps - and I'm just spitballing here - they thought that the man who was killing someone might kill them, too?
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

9th June 2020, 08:42 AM	#246
StillSleepy Muse Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Where the wild goose goes Posts: 611	Originally Posted by Bob001 Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread.
	__________________ I just want some outdoors left to enjoy. The wild is already artificial enough as it is. "Scholars have long known that fishing eventually turns men into philosophers. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to buy decent tackle on a philosopher's salary." ~ Patrick F. McManus, “Never Sniff A Gift Fish”

9th June 2020, 08:43 AM	#247
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	Originally Posted by StillSleepy Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread. Indeed. It's a strange play given that the now infamous video is basically 8 minutes of the crowd begging for Floyd's life.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

9th June 2020, 08:30 AM	#241
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,962	Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd. Quote: He then added: "If all people say my client didn't intercede, if the public was there and they're in uproar about this, they didn't intercede either," Gray said. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks

9th June 2020, 08:33 AM	#244
Kestrel Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,114	Originally Posted by Belz... Two cars for a dispute? A dispute over $20 and the suspect may be drunk or under the influence. Sending more than one car seems to be standard practice. The 911 operator said that squads would be on the way. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...lls/index.html That such things are routine is evidence that the police are overfunded.

9th June 2020, 09:35 AM	#248
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	Portland, Maine police officer shows up at journalists house, threatens arrest because they don't like his tweets about police. https://twitter.com/c_milneil/status...48066307145729
	__________________ Gobble gobble

9th June 2020, 09:42 AM	#249
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	Ohio National Guard Member Sent Home for White Supremacist Views Is Likely a Fascist YouTuber https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...cist-youtuber/ Quote: “Well lads it’s time, you will hear of me either tonight or tomorrow in the news,” a June 2 message on a Telegram channel linked to his YouTube presence stated. He posted an acronym coined by white supremacists for “race and holy war.” “They activated my unit and we’re getting real ammunition to shoot and kill,” he wrote. “Rahowa.” Seems like a near miss with an armed fascist being deployed to the streets of DC.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

9th June 2020, 09:44 AM	#250
bonzombiekitty Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,727	Originally Posted by Bob001 Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four.

9th June 2020, 09:54 AM	#251
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,962	Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four. No, the cops carry far more than three or four bullets.

9th June 2020, 09:57 AM	#252
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,890	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Start laughing, doesn't stop for several hours I have had 4 this year just for DUI checkpoints. I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police.
erlando Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,890	__________________ "If it can grow, it can evolve" - Eugenie Scott, Ph.D Creationism disproved? Evolution IS a blind watchmaker

9th June 2020, 10:00 AM	#253
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,743	Originally Posted by Thermal Police often want to check out someone that fits their stereotype of a criminal, and invent a pretext for interrogation. I get pulled over maybe once a week or so, especially late at night and on weekends. Cops see my work truck out after hours, and assume I've been at the bar for hours and am reeling pickled. ...snip... Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

9th June 2020, 10:02 AM	#254
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 92,027	Originally Posted by erlando I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police. Had mine for 17, same number of stops. I usually go a bit higher than the limit on highways, but even when cops radar me they don't bother with me. They want to catch the bigger fish.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

9th June 2020, 10:25 AM	#255
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 15,352	Originally Posted by Cabbage Did you have any interest in continuing our debate from before the weekend? It's fine with me if you wanna drop it, I merely wanted to ask in case it got lost/forgotten over the weekend. Since the thread has been continued, I thought I'd help by linking to where we were: Shrug I kind of feel like we've reached an impasse. Your last comment there.. {quote]Yeah, I'm calling this as an exceptional case of BS both sidesism. "But they would do it too!" is always an equally (in)valid response that is made to deflect from actual problems. Like I said, this is yet another example of your willful ignorance.[/quote] ... leads me to believe that there's not a lot of point to continued discussion on the topic of human behavior, cognitive biases, and tribal instinct. If you're interested in continuing, I recommend reading this article as a started, and consider checking out some of the other articles and podcasts on that site. The Illusion of Asymmetric Insight
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

9th June 2020, 10:27 AM	#256
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 15,352	Originally Posted by bruto You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing. What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"? Does religion?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

9th June 2020, 10:29 AM	#257
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 15,352	Originally Posted by Cabbage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Are you aware that this oft-referenced concept is a minor footnote in a very large work that actually advocates tolerance as a general principle?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

9th June 2020, 10:29 AM	#258
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"? Very slowly "Things you choose to do." Quote: Does religion? Yes. Why wouldn't it?
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th June 2020, 10:30 AM	#259
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 15,352	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey If I knew a grocery store would never have cops in it, I would only shop there. So... admitted bigotry?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

9th June 2020, 10:30 AM	#260
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken It's as if the police are announcing to the public that they operate like organized crime. "Nice shop you have there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it..." As long as they don't use the words "quid pro quo", it's a perfect conversation.

9th June 2020, 10:31 AM	#261
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat So... admitted bigotry? Again we've had the "It's bigoted to be bigots of bigots" discussion already. Stop pretending we haven't even if you disagree with it.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th June 2020, 10:32 AM	#262
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by Darat How come they are so common? And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops.

9th June 2020, 10:32 AM	#263
Delphic Oracle Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 5,408	Originally Posted by Darat Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way. Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too. Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit. We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.

9th June 2020, 10:33 AM	#264
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 14,021	Originally Posted by Darat Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way. Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian?
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

9th June 2020, 10:36 AM	#265
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	Originally Posted by Thermal Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian? Indeed. In big cities, the push for increased policing was through stop and frisk. Outside of the cities, it's not as practical to hassle people on foot. Initiating traffic stops is the prime way for police to intrude on citizens about their business in public.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

9th June 2020, 10:38 AM	#266
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 14,021	Originally Posted by Ryokan And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops. "I pulled you over because of your broken tail light" "Huh? My taillight is fine" "So it is. My bad. Drivers licence, registration and insurance cards please. Now. Mind if I look inside? Unless you have something to hide, of course. Is that pot I smell?" Oh yeah. Been through it. Eta: also gives a pretext to run the license and find out if there are any outstanding warrants, or no seat belt, or overdue inspection, or any other violations the cop can think of.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain Last edited by Thermal; 9th June 2020 at 10:43 AM.

9th June 2020, 10:40 AM	#267
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,461	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too. Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit. We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes. Public money is fungible. If DOT money is coming from citations, that means general funds can be diverted to something else. So long as money from citations enter the municipal budget, there will be an incentive to act like parasites. I grant that removing the direct link between police citations and police budgets would probably help some, but I think the problem would still exist to some lesser extent. I still suspect the best solution would be to essentially waste the money. Send every citizen a check every year that disburses the money. Even better, have it deducted from their end of year taxes so people hardly even notice it. I would assume it's a nominal value once cut up into so many pieces, so nobody is going to be driven to maximize such money.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 9th June 2020 at 10:41 AM.

9th June 2020, 10:48 AM	#268
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,650	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too. Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit. We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes. In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police.

9th June 2020, 10:55 AM	#269
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police. Same in Norway. And most other civilized countries, I would bet.

9th June 2020, 10:58 AM	#270
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	In America we're lucky if the funds don't go to the individual cop that pulls you over.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th June 2020, 11:03 AM	#271
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 25,050	Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

9th June 2020, 11:04 AM	#272
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,422	Originally Posted by alfaniner Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense. Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

9th June 2020, 11:05 AM	#273
Ryokan Insert something funny here Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 10,430	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals. I'm not sure suspicion of something goes on your criminal record.

9th June 2020, 11:07 AM	#274
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,535	Originally Posted by Bob001 Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd. https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks Wait a second - he's essentially saying the public had a duty to riot against the police officers at the scene!?
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

9th June 2020, 11:07 AM	#275
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,617	Originally Posted by alfaniner Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense. Assuming the funeral was, as statistically expected, a Christian ritual, I'm curious as to how you've ascertained the state of Floyd's salvation.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...