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Tags 2020 elections , George Conway , PACs , republican party , Rick Wilson , steve schmidt , The Lincoln Project

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Old 5th November 2020, 12:39 PM   #241
theprestige
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Personally I wouldn't have minded if they were:

a) working on reforming the party from within the party, rather than defecting when they lost an election to an outsider, and

b) their idea of conservative reform was small government, state's rights, and social libertarianism rather than simply "vote Democrat this cycle!"
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Old 5th November 2020, 12:42 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Not even Republican voters want Republican career politicians.
More to the point of the Lincoln Project: We don't think Democrat career politicians are an upgrade.
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Old 5th November 2020, 12:59 PM   #243
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Of course not.
At least Republican politicians usually don't eat babies.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:06 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Of course not.
At least Republican politicians usually don't eat babies.
That we know of.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:17 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That's not the way I see it.

Trump managed to mobilize numbers of voters an establishment GOP candidate can not even dream of.
I think that they will keep the door open for Trump to run in 2024 whilst looking whether Tucker Carlson or another racist Demagogue wants to run.

Not even Republican voters want Republican career politicians.
While I would love for Trump to start his own party, because that would split off about 30-40% of GOP voters thus ensuring that would both be royally screwed in 2024, I agree with you that this is highly unlikely. For him to do so, Trump's prime consideration is money - it would have to be financially worthwhile.

Running for President is a money pit.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:22 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Personally I wouldn't have minded if they were:

a) working on reforming the party from within the party, rather than defecting when they lost an election to an outsider, and

b) their idea of conservative reform was small government, state's rights, and social libertarianism rather than simply "vote Democrat this cycle!"
They got an awful lot of liberals to send them money, and they still have all those followers on Twitter and Facebook, but what they don't have is the common enemy. Do they try to pull the Democrats rightward? I don't get any sense that's going to work; Biden was a bitter pill for the left to swallow (especially since they will convince themselves that Bernie would have done better). If anything I see the Democrats going leftward in 2024. It would be surprising not to see Biden primaried the next time around (assuming he lasts that long).
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:41 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
While I would love for Trump to start his own party, because that would split off about 30-40% of GOP voters thus ensuring that would both be royally screwed in 2024, I agree with you that this is highly unlikely. For him to do so, Trump's prime consideration is money - it would have to be financially worthwhile.

Running for President is a money pit.
On the other hand, the only thing Trump is Willing to spend money on is his own fat ego.
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Old 5th November 2020, 01:51 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
On the other hand, the only thing Trump is Willing to spend money on is his own fat ego.
What a terrible character slur -- he only spends other people's money on that.
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Old 5th November 2020, 02:28 PM   #249
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I never saw a Lincoln Project ad on TV, only the internet.

I imagine most republicans didn't even know they existed because I doubt the LP ads had much penetration into their consciousness. I never watched a GOP ad on the internet, why would a republican watch an LP ad.

It was a silly vanity project to make a few pissed off conservatives feel better about their conservatism as the rest of the party went full Trump. I'd put the impact close to zero.
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:22 AM   #250
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The 'Project' continues to attack the worst Republicans even after Trump was defeated:

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I AGREE
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Old 9th November 2020, 12:24 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I never watched a GOP ad on the internet, why would a republican watch an LP ad.

Because you sent them a link to one?!
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Old 9th November 2020, 01:05 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The 'Project' continues to attack the worst Republicans even after Trump was defeated:

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I AGREE
Trump was defeated, but Perdue faces a run-off for his senate seat in January.
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Old 9th November 2020, 05:18 AM   #253
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I am aware of that. But even though the 'Project' has been attacking individual Republicans running for Senate, Lindsey Graham, for instance:

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I had expected them to stop after the presidential election was over.
But it makes sense to continue to go after Trump supporters.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 9th November 2020, 06:11 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I had expected them to stop after the presidential election was over.
But it makes sense to continue to go after Trump supporters.

What they really need to do is start telling the GOP voters that Biden really did win a fair election, and they need to stop all the "fraud" nonsense if they want the GOP to ever be relevant again.

Because it's a certainty that those voters won't listen to anyone else.
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Old 9th November 2020, 09:22 AM   #255
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That is what they're counting on!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:24 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I don't know why people take this adage to task so much.

The whole point is that when you're trying to defeat your enemy, you might want to have their enemies as allies. It's as simple as that. Being unwilling to do so can easily result in defeat. Once you've dealt with the first enemy, of course, there's no reason to continue to be allies. The adage doesn't mean that you should become like your enemy's enemies.
Perfect example being the Soviet Union. The USA's "friendship" with them lasted about two microseconds after Japan surrendered [/hyperbole].

Last edited by CORed; 12th November 2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:35 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Personally I wouldn't have minded if they were:

a) working on reforming the party from within the party, rather than defecting when they lost an election to an outsider, and

b) their idea of conservative reform was small government, state's rights, and social libertarianism rather than simply "vote Democrat this cycle!"
Can't reform the party when Trump is in the way and every top Republican is kissing his ass and every little perceived slight against Trump is taken as disloyalty. That's kind of a big deal. The Lincoln Project was born out of a need to combat that.
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Old 12th February 2021, 11:00 AM   #258
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The Lincoln Project has definitely fallen on hard times. First, one of their founders was accused of abusing his position to harass young men sexually:

Quote:
Weaver continued harassing Johnson at the Lincoln Project: “Are you top, bottom, versa?” he wrote in one message shortly after Johnson started.

“His messages never stopped,” Johnson said. “And I would play along, just to be nice. Because I knew, I mean, he’s important. Like he has the strings. And we operate in the same kind of political culture of being ‘Never Trumpers.’”

Johnson said he didn’t tell Lincoln Project management about Weaver, fearing retribution if he accused one of the company’s co-founders of harassment. “I was like, ‘Oh my gosh, if I say something wrong, they’re gonna let me go or get rid of me,’” Johnson said.

While Johnson didn’t know it then, the Lincoln Project had already been told Weaver was preying on young men in and outside the company.
Other founders have claimed they did not know this was going on (and oddly, in one tweet claimed that none of their members had ever been in Weaver's presence). However, this claim is undercut by the revelation that six former LP staffers are requesting to be released from Non-Disclosure Agreements they signed. And just to add a little cherry on top, another former founder of the LP has quit and the LP decided to go nuclear on her, claiming she tried to extort a higher salary. They also posted DMs from the former founder's twitter account to a reporter who was working on the LP, in apparent violation of federal law.
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Old 12th February 2021, 11:20 AM   #259
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This is the break the Trump campaign has been waiting for!
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Old 12th February 2021, 11:36 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
This is the break the Trump campaign has been waiting for!
Just looks normal to me, GOP group that turned on something they helped create turns on itself
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Old 13th February 2021, 10:41 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I never saw a Lincoln Project ad on TV, only the internet.

I imagine most republicans didn't even know they existed because I doubt the LP ads had much penetration into their consciousness. I never watched a GOP ad on the internet, why would a republican watch an LP ad.

It was a silly vanity project to make a few pissed off conservatives feel better about their conservatism as the rest of the party went full Trump. I'd put the impact close to zero.
I heard an interview of one of their lead campaign managers. Most of what we saw (at least here in the DMV) was targeted at one person. The point was to push him to be more distrustful and more unhinged. I'm not sure it worked or how you'd figure out a measure of success.
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Old 13th February 2021, 06:11 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The Lincoln Project has definitely fallen on hard times. First, one of their founders was accused of abusing his position to harass young men sexually:



Other founders have claimed they did not know this was going on (and oddly, in one tweet claimed that none of their members had ever been in Weaver's presence). However, this claim is undercut by the revelation that six former LP staffers are requesting to be released from Non-Disclosure Agreements they signed. And just to add a little cherry on top, another former founder of the LP has quit and the LP decided to go nuclear on her, claiming she tried to extort a higher salary. They also posted DMs from the former founder's twitter account to a reporter who was working on the LP, in apparent violation of federal law.
I think the old GOP Is dead, replaced by a personality cult and an bunch of loons.
Jusy look at the GOP on your home state of Arizona.
You are blaming the LP for the GOP breakup, You need to look elsewhere.
Sorry, bu tthe GOP you grew up in is dead and gone. Sooner you face reality about this the better.
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Old 13th February 2021, 06:25 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The Lincoln Project has definitely fallen on hard times. First, one of their founders was accused of abusing his position to harass young men sexually:



Other founders have claimed they did not know this was going on (and oddly, in one tweet claimed that none of their members had ever been in Weaver's presence). However, this claim is undercut by the revelation that six former LP staffers are requesting to be released from Non-Disclosure Agreements they signed. And just to add a little cherry on top, another former founder of the LP has quit and the LP decided to go nuclear on her, claiming she tried to extort a higher salary. They also posted DMs from the former founder's twitter account to a reporter who was working on the LP, in apparent violation of federal law.
So what you are saying is that Republicans are a bunch of sanctimonious hypocrites whether they are in the "For Trump Train" or in the "Against Trump Train". OMG! Who would have ever guessed that.
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Old 13th February 2021, 08:36 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think the old GOP Is dead, replaced by a personality cult and an bunch of loons.
Jusy look at the GOP on your home state of Arizona.
You are blaming the LP for the GOP breakup, You need to look elsewhere.
Sorry, bu tthe GOP you grew up in is dead and gone. Sooner you face reality about this the better.
Along similar lines, the Oregon GOP made a statement that the capital riots were a false flag. It is an odd spectacle to see these radical populists call Cheney a "RINO".
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:22 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Along similar lines, the Oregon GOP made a statement that the capital riots were a false flag. It is an odd spectacle to see these radical populists call Cheney a "RINO".
It's hard to imagine that the Oregon GOP, that produced Tom McCall, Mark Hatfield and Vic Atiyeh is ever coming back.
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Old 14th February 2021, 12:25 AM   #266
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Both the "anti-Trump" and the "only-Trump" Splitters of the GOP will remain insignificant compare to the traditional "we don't give a ****" GOP.
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Old 14th February 2021, 05:37 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I heard an interview of one of their lead campaign managers. Most of what we saw (at least here in the DMV) was targeted at one person. The point was to push him to be more distrustful and more unhinged. I'm not sure it worked or how you'd figure out a measure of success.
T**** was convincingly not re-elected. 100% success, regardless of why.
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:46 PM   #268
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I've analyzed the two Nebraska senators:
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/202...ur-closet.html
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Old 14th February 2021, 01:51 PM   #269
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So it is not enough to oppose Trump, you must renounce all conservative beleifs and become a "Progressive?".That is the vibe I am really getting here.
yeah, being skeptical that huge government programs are the answer to every problem is so evil.....
I depise Trump, and think the Current GOP is doomed, but do not like the idea of a One Party State even if the Party is Democratic.
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Old 14th February 2021, 02:04 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So it is not enough to oppose Trump, you must renounce all conservative beleifs and become a "Progressive?".That is the vibe I am really getting here.
yeah, being skeptical that huge government programs are the answer to every problem is so evil.....
I depise Trump, and think the Current GOP is doomed, but do not like the idea of a One Party State even if the Party is Democratic.
If only there was a unified compassionate conservative party to ensure there was strong debate and review before programs were launched... Ah, dreams!
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Old 14th February 2021, 03:53 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
It's hard to imagine that the Oregon GOP, that produced Tom McCall, Mark Hatfield and Vic Atiyeh is ever coming back.
RINOS!
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Old 14th February 2021, 04:42 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So it is not enough to oppose Trump, you must renounce all conservative beleifs and become a "Progressive?".That is the vibe I am really getting here.
yeah, being skeptical that huge government programs are the answer to every problem is so evil.....
I depise Trump, and think the Current GOP is doomed, but do not like the idea of a One Party State even if the Party is Democratic.
You can be anything you want. Smart political parties are inclusive of differing opinions.

Don't mind me though if I believe that it is necessary for the health of everyone that we share the economic pie more equitably. That the government urges growth and spends more on infrastructure.
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Old 14th February 2021, 04:56 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So it is not enough to oppose Trump, you must renounce all conservative beleifs and become a "Progressive?".That is the vibe I am really getting here.
yeah, being skeptical that huge government programs are the answer to every problem is so evil.....
I depise Trump, and think the Current GOP is doomed, but do not like the idea of a One Party State even if the Party is Democratic.


You don't need to renounce them. There are other options, depending on how much work you, personally, are willing to do.

You could, as others have mentioned, actually get out there and help start a new conservative party that isn't beholden to the Trumpist conspiracy theory party. There's several different flavors of such a party you could try, depending on exactly which "conservative" policies you want to hold on to.

Sure, this would require a lot of work, and in the process of building up such a party, you're likely to lose several election cycles in a row, but that's the price you pay for letting Trump and his ilk ruin the GOP.

Or, you could just put those policies on the backburner for an election cycle or two, and vote Democratic until someone else does the hard work of building a new party you actually want to support. You might not like this option because of your irrational fears about the Democratic party suddenly going Full Trump on you, but sometimes you have to take a risk in order to save your ******* country.

Frankly, the notion that the Democrats will finally get their act together enough to actually even try to become a "one party state" any time in the next decade is so irrational, you're either being disingenuous, or you need to get your head out of your ass. Coming off a huge win against Trump, in the middle of a pandemic-induced economic disaster, they're still arguing over $1400 vs. $2000 as an economic stimulus. This is not the party that's going to agree on opening gulags any time soon.
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Old 14th February 2021, 05:26 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
So it is not enough to oppose Trump, you must renounce all conservative beleifs and become a "Progressive?".That is the vibe I am really getting here.
No one is saying that at all, but the issue is that the current conservative party is so invested with Trumpism and white nationalism that anyone that supports it quickly starts having that rub off on them. The fact is that the GOP has been given a number of golden opportunities to excise the cancer that is Trumpism and White Nationalism from their ranks, and instead of doing so, each time they have moved to further embrace it. That makes them complicit.

So as noted, you want to be a conservative, that's fine, but you're going to either have to figure out how to do one of two really hard things...

1) Cleanse the GOP of the cancer that is Trumpish, White Nationalism, and Qanon. Restore compassion and morality to the party, and eliminate the utter hypocrisy that abides in it currently.

2) Start a new conservative party that stands for compassion and morality, conservatism without the hypocrisy, racism, homophobia, and transphobia.
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Old 16th February 2021, 04:24 PM   #275
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I have a hard time seeing what the current Republican party has to offer at this point. It doesn't seem to be sustainable to keep running on smearing the opposition with lies and fear and relying on propaganda to pretend that some of the biggest problems facing the nation aren't real, while trying to scrape just enough of a margin from racists, party-loyalists, and a coalition of the crazies to keep some power through voter suppression and gerrymandering.

Without Trump, there's a real danger of losing some of the racists and crazies so I guess it's not surprising that they're clinging on to his legacy.

There's is probably room for a new party in US politics at the moment and it might need to be a move away from the set liberal/conservative paradigm, so I don't know if it would quite fit traditional Republicans reforming something, but I think it would need to stand for something and be offering solutions to genuine issues.
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Old 16th February 2021, 05:48 PM   #276
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Yahoo: Majority of Republican voters support forming new third party, poll finds
Quote:
More than half of Republican voters think the US needs a new mainstream third party, according to a recent poll.

A recently released Gallup poll found that there has been a surge among Republican voters who think the US needs a new third party to better represent Americans' interests.

According to the poll, between 63 and 70 per cent of Republicans supported a new party. In September, only 40 per cent of Republicans shared that view.
At first glance one would think these were the sane Republicans wanting to dump Trump. After all there is a reference to "mainstream". But no, it's the other way around.

Quote:
The results appear to be a direct response to Donald Trump's defeat in the 2020 US election and the perception by his supporters that Republicans did not do enough to advance his false claims that his loss was the result of massive voter fraud....

In addition to wanting a new party, 68 per cent of Republicans said they would prefer Mr Trump to continue leading the party, and most wanted the Republican party to become more conservative.

And some might be going ahead already:
Quote:
... Trump voters from several Republican states are breaking off and forming "Patriot parties" to reflect their loyalty to the former president above all else.

On the sane side:
Quote:
Reuters reported that more than 120 Republicans met virtually last week to discuss the potential formation of a centre-right third party to counter Mr Trump's far-right wing political movement in the US. However, several prominent Republicans, including Rep Liz Cheney, told the outlet that such a move would be untenable following the discussion.
Still afraid that they need the Trump base to survive. IOW they would rather have these extremists running their party than risk the Democrats winning the next election.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 16th February 2021 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 16th February 2021, 07:07 PM   #277
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Oh? An ultra-authoritarian, crony-capitalistic, make-your-own-reality, oligarchic white nationalist party?

The next election would essentially be a referendum on whether the US should just adopt Putin's government model.




ETA - oh wait... maybe we just had that election?
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Last edited by Egg; 16th February 2021 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 17th February 2021, 10:40 AM   #278
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I'd like to request a thread title change to more accurately reflect the group being discussed.

How about "The Lincoln Homosexual & Pederasty Grooming Project"?

Or maybe "The Lincoln Never-Trump & Deviant Sexual Behavior Project"?

Just spit balling here.
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Old 17th February 2021, 06:19 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I'd like to request a thread title change to more accurately reflect the group being discussed.

How about "The Lincoln Homosexual & Pederasty Grooming Project"?

Or maybe "The Lincoln Never-Trump & Deviant Sexual Behavior Project"?

Just spit balling here.
I'm glad they wanted until after the fall of Trump to start unravelling. Maybe they can reform around 2024 if another Trump-esque wannabe dictator runs for office, which they probably will.

Originally Posted by Egg View Post
The next election would essentially be a referendum on whether the US should just adopt Putin's government model.
The US just had a referendum on whether it should try to remain a democracy, or allow Trump to turn it into a far-right dictatorship. IMO referendums should ideally be a once-in-a-generation thing.
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Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 17th February 2021 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 17th February 2021, 06:54 PM   #280
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
I'd like to request a thread title change to more accurately reflect the group being discussed.

How about "The Lincoln Homosexual & Pederasty Grooming Project"?

Or maybe "The Lincoln Never-Trump & Deviant Sexual Behavior Project"?

Just spit balling here.
I'd call it gaslighting or promoting disgusting disinformation. This wild BS about Republicans who despise the lying POS Trump as pederasts is beneath anyone of half an intellect.

What makes someone think Trump is good for anything?
  • 30,000 plus lies in 4 years.
  • Betrayed his oath.
  • Mangled the COVID response.
  • Promoted racism and worked non-stop to divide America.
  • Promoted violence before he was elected.
  • Said he was going to build a wall across our Southern border. Built less than 5 miles, but spent 30 billion dollars taken from the military.
  • Said Mexico would pay for it. They didn't.
  • Said he would replace Obamacare with something better. 5 years later, he still hasn't told us what would be better.
  • Said he was going to be the "infrastructure President". Did absolutely nothing to address the infrastructure problems.
  • Said he was going to bring back coal jobs. Yet the downward spiral of Coal jobs continues.
  • Promoted conspiracy theories and a violent insurrection.
This is just a start.

But feel free to tell us what Trump did that was good. I can think of only one thing. Maybe two.
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