IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

Reply
Old 1st November 2020, 10:30 PM   #1
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 31

Here it is, the anniversary of Meredith's brutal murder by Rudy Guede and the site that claims to be dedicated to her memory, TJMK, doesn't even mention it.

Mod InfoThread continued from here.


You can quote or reply to any post from that or previous parts of this thread.
Posted By:zooterkin

Last edited by zooterkin; 3rd November 2020 at 04:42 AM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 05:20 AM   #2
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Thirteen years ago, Rudy Guede snuffed out a life, and started a process which destroyed other lives.
That is not the legal position.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 06:41 AM   #3
TomG
Critical Thinker
 
TomG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That is not the legal position.
There's a difference between judicial and actual facts in this case.

Hoots
__________________
The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else.
TomG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 07:52 AM   #4
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That is not the legal position.
Huh!? Ok, part of the legal position is acknowledging that any investigation into other's participation was amnesiac and hopeless, so much so that nothing of import should have been used to implicate the two other people charged.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 08:36 AM   #5
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
"Thirteen years ago, Rudy Guede snuffed out a life, and started a process which destroyed other lives."

That is not the legal position.
Which part is not the legal position?

o It WAS thirteen years ago

o Guede WAS convicted of murdering Meredith along with accomplices

o Guede DID implicate Amanda and Raffaele, who were subsequently acquitted of murder, but in the process their lives were destroyed.

It seems to me what Bill wrote is exactly what the legal position is.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 09:12 AM   #6
Numbers
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,403
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Here it is, the anniversary of Meredith's brutal murder by Rudy Guede and the site that claims to be dedicated to her memory, TJMK, doesn't even mention it.
And no Action Plan or Report from Italy has to date been accepted, according to HUDOC EXEC, by the Council of Europe - Committee of Ministers to advance the resolution of the ECHR judgment against in Italy for the case Knox v. Italy or for at least 14 other pending leading cases against Italy.

Wishing your husband a complete and speedy recovery

Last edited by Numbers; 2nd November 2020 at 09:31 AM.
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 10:56 AM   #7
whoanellie
Muse
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That is not the legal position.
But it is the truth.
whoanellie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 11:29 AM   #8
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That is not the legal position.
Wow. I must have missed Guede's acquittal. When did this happen? Last I heard, he was in prison having been definitively convicted for the murder of Meredith Kercher.

Quote:
FOR THESE REASONS

The Preliminary Hearing Court having regard to Articles 442, 533 and 535 Criminal Procedure Code
DECLARES
RUDY HERMANN GUEDE
guilty of the crimes charged against him under headings (A) and (C), holding this latter charge absorbed within the offence of aggravated murder,
(Sentencing Report of Guede)
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 11:31 AM   #9
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
And no Action Plan or Report from Italy has to date been accepted, according to HUDOC EXEC, by the Council of Europe - Committee of Ministers to advance the resolution of the ECHR judgment against in Italy for the case Knox v. Italy or for at least 14 other pending leading cases against Italy.

Wishing your husband a complete and speedy recovery
Thanks.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 11:57 AM   #10
TomG
Critical Thinker
 
TomG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Which part is not the legal position?

o It WAS thirteen years ago

o Guede WAS convicted of murdering Meredith along with accomplices

o Guede DID implicate Amanda and Raffaele, who were subsequently acquitted of murder, but in the process their lives were destroyed.

It seems to me what Bill wrote is exactly what the legal position is.
Erm, I think the sticky bit is that according to Micheli, as I understand it, Rudy didn't actually do the dirty deed:

"Ultimately, G. participated in absolutely active terms in the joint action of several aggressors, even if it was not he who physically struck the fatal blow: although the role concretely assumed by each of the defendants was not described in the column, it has been clarified during the discussion by the PM * and it was in any case already evident on the basis of the procedural findings * that he is not accused of having challenged the knife."

If that's the case it contradicts 8.1. that acquits K&S since there is no evidence of them at the crime scene nor is there evidence of anyone else except for Rudy and the victim. So the evidence to conclude that Rudy didn't deliver the fatal wound doesn't exist, as I see it.

Hoots
__________________
The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else.
TomG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd November 2020, 12:43 PM   #11
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
The problem is that the prosecution never provided any credible evidence that anyone but Guede killed Kercher.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2020, 01:26 PM   #12
whoanellie
Muse
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The problem is that the prosecution never provided any credible evidence that anyone but Guede killed Kercher.
The problem that the prosecution had was that there was no credible evidence to present.
whoanellie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd November 2020, 02:51 PM   #13
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
The problem that the prosecution had was that there was no credible evidence to present.
True. That's because the only evidence of anyone in that room was of Meredith and Guede.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 02:47 AM   #14
commandlinegamer
Philosopher
 
commandlinegamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mazes of Menace
Posts: 9,099
From Amanda Knox, via Twitter:
Quote:
Whatever happens, the next four years can't be as bad as that four-year study abroad I did in Italy, right?
__________________
He bade me take any rug in the house.
commandlinegamer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 12:01 PM   #15
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
That was not a wise thing for Amanda to say.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 03:21 PM   #16
Methos
Muse
 
Methos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 816
Fascinating, that this

‘HOW DARE YOU’ Piers Morgan blasts ‘disgusting’ Amanda Knox over ‘tasteless’ joke comparing US election to Meredith Kercher murder
is "news" and this isn't:
"Guede non può aver agito da solo": tutti i dubbi sul delitto Kercher
Looks like in Italy, the murder of Meredith Kercher has become "The story of Rudy Guede" ...
__________________
"Found a typo? You can keep it..."
Methos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 03:44 PM   #17
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
From Amanda Knox, via Twitter:
Callous, unfeeling, cruel and narcissistic.

She was probably giggling when she wrote it, enjoying the anticipated reaction.

She and Raffaele Sollecito are birds of a feather, enjoying shocking people for the attention. Their whole attitude is '**** you!'
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 04:28 PM   #18
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Callous, unfeeling, cruel and narcissistic.

She was probably giggling when she wrote it, enjoying the anticipated reaction.

She and Raffaele Sollecito are birds of a feather, enjoying shocking people for the attention. Their whole attitude is '**** you!'
Who cares?
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 05:52 PM   #19
Numbers
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,403
Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Fascinating, that this

‘HOW DARE YOU’ Piers Morgan blasts ‘disgusting’ Amanda Knox over ‘tasteless’ joke comparing US election to Meredith Kercher murder
is "news" and this isn't:
"Guede non può aver agito da solo": tutti i dubbi sul delitto Kercher
Looks like in Italy, the murder of Meredith Kercher has become "The story of Rudy Guede" ...
Piers Morgan must be another one of those sadly afflicted with a reading comprehension deficit, based on his misreading of Amanda Knox's twitter joke.

Knox's joke made no reference to Meredith Kercher or the crimes against her.
Numbers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 4th November 2020, 08:20 PM   #20
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Piers Morgan must be another one of those sadly afflicted with a reading comprehension deficit, based on his misreading of Amanda Knox's twitter joke.

Knox's joke made no reference to Meredith Kercher or the crimes against her.
Exactly. I pointed this out to someone else in another forum who then had to agree that she had inferred something that simply wasn't there. Amanda jokingly compared her 4 years in prison to Trump's horrific 4 years in office as president. There was no reference to Meredith or to her murder yet Vixen and others saw one because they wanted to see one.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 01:13 AM   #21
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Exactly. I pointed this out to someone else in another forum who then had to agree that she had inferred something that simply wasn't there. Amanda jokingly compared her 4 years in prison to Trump's horrific 4 years in office as president. There was no reference to Meredith or to her murder yet Vixen and others saw one because they wanted to see one.
HELLOOOO!!! You do know she was jailed for three years for criminal calunnia. Are you seriously claiming it doesn't matter that she ruined Patrick Lumumba's life? Black lives matter!
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 03:30 AM   #22
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HELLOOOO!!! You do know she was jailed for three years for criminal calunnia. Are you seriously claiming it doesn't matter that she ruined Patrick Lumumba's life? Black lives matter!
Which State of Italy law enforcement organization closed Lumumba's bar for weeks, even after he'd been cleared? Which Perugia public minister at first called Knox a liar, then claimed that Lumumba had to be arrested solely on her say-so? Doesn't that sound a little strange?

The answer to this might reveal who it was who "ruined Lumumba's life".

BTW - yes indeed, Black lives matter.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.

Last edited by Bill Williams; 5th November 2020 at 03:33 AM.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 10:58 AM   #23
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Bizarre state of affairs

The truly bizarre state of affairs these days is that 5 years after her exoneration for murder, and a year (or 2?) after the ECHR ruled that Italy wrongly convicted Knox for calunnia against Lumumba......

.... that there are some, including Piers friggin' Morgan, who are on a hair-trigger while monitoring obsessively the twitter feed of some random Seattleite.

It's good that there's no one out there obsessing with me, on a daily look for a gaffe I might make. And then they hire a paparazzi to stalk me on the street, for a front page piece in the Daily Mail!
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 11:49 AM   #24
Welshman
Muse
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HELLOOOO!!! You do know she was jailed for three years for criminal calunnia. Are you seriously claiming it doesn't matter that she ruined Patrick Lumumba's life? Black lives matter!
A reminder from previous posts of the disgusting hypocrisy Vixen shows when attacking Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba. Vixen complains the supreme court acted illegally in annulling the conviction. Numerous laws were broken during the interrogations but for some reason Vixen has no issue with Italian laws being broken when it works against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP posters are so staggeringly stupid they don't see it as hypocritical to attack someone for falsely accusing someone of a crime and then falsely accusing people of crimes yourself.

“Amanda being convicted of Calunnia is a major injustice in this case. Amanda’s rights were violated during the interrogation by being denied access to lawyers. The interrogation was not taped and there is no record of what happened in the interrogation. The two statements below are clearly prepared by the police and short on details. If Amanda has named Lumumba, why did the police prepare statements for the Amanda to sign?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/145Statement.pdf
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/545Statement.pdf

As can be seen from Amanda’s statement below, Amanda withdrew the accusation against Lumumba. Vixen for some reason never mentions this.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content...moriale-II.pdf

The police didn’t carry out a proper investigation. Amanda was not asked what time the murder happened, what was discussed before the murder, what was Lumumba wearing, did Lumumba use a weapon, what happened after the murder. As can be seen from the link below, the police didn’t check witnesses to see if Lumumba was at the bar and only carried out minimal forensic investigations. Lumumba initially said in a statement that the police tried to beat a confession out of him. Lumumba was still held when tests came which excluded him as the rapist. Lumumba’s bar was kept closed after he was released. If Vixen and other PGP care so much about Lumumba, why are the strangely silent about the brutal treatment Lumumba received from the police?

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/patrick-lumumba/

Vixen conveniently forgets that false accusations have been made against Amanda and Raffaele. The witnesses Kokomani, Gioffredi, Curalto and Quintavelle provided false testimony against Amanda and Raffaele. Guede falsely accused Amanda and Raffaele of being at the cottage when he murdered Meredith. Vixen made the false allegation Hellman received a massive bribe to find Amanda and Raffaele not guilty. Vixen and other PGP have attacked Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba and felt a prison sentence was justified but Vixen felt it was perfectly acceptable for people to make false accusations against Amanda and Raffaele and for Vixen to falsely accuse Hellman of committing a crime which is typical of the disgusting and repulsive Vixen shows in her posts. Of all the vile hypocrisy Vixen has shown in her post I feel this ranks as the worst. Vixen viciously attacks Amanda for telling lies and then spreads malicious lies about Hellman being bribed.”


“In addition to the false allegation Hellman received massive bribe, there are other examples where Vixen has made false allegations people have committed crimes. In the posts below Vixen makes a false allegation Vecchiotti was convicted of gross negligence and Vinci used photoshop which would be criminal misconduct. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk why is necessary to resort to lies? Vixen has consistently refused to answer this question. Vixen has made three false allegations people have committed crimes and has the cheek to attack Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba of committing a crime. The evidence suggests Amanda was pressurised into naming Lumumba and Amanda withdrew the allegation. Vixen has made deliberate false allegations without being put under pressure. Vixen says Amanda deserves time in prison and should pay Lumumba but Vixen feels it is perfectly acceptable for her to falsely accuse people of crimes without being punished or be liable to pay money. Vixen has not shown any remorse over these false allegations and has refused to withdraw them. Vixen viciously attacks Amanda for lying and spreads malicious lies about people. Words can’t describe how utterly repulsive this hypocrisy is.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893

Post dated 20.03.2016
Claim: and even defense forensic expert 'Photoshop' Vinci discovered Amanda's DNA on the bra, together with Rudy's.
Truth: Amanda’s DNA was not on the clasp and this has never been part of the prosecution’s case. There is no record of the defence agreeing Amanda’s DNA was on the clasp and there is no evidence Vinci used Photoshop.

Another way Vixen shows disgusting hypocrisy is that Vixen has no problem if people make false accusations if they work against Amanda and Raffaele. In addition to witnesses giving false testimony and Rudy lying about Amanda and Raffaele being at the cottage when he killed Meredith, there are other instances where false accusations were made against Amanda and Raffaele :-

• As can be seen from the links below the prosecution fed false information about the purchase of bleach, the washing machine running, Amanda showering in a blood bathroom, the Harry Potter book. Prosecutor Comodi lied to Amanda in court saying she had called her mother at 12.00 pm when in fact phone records showed she phoned her mother at 12.47 pm. In yet another example of disgusting hypocrisy, Vixen attacked Amanda and Raffaele for lying in court but had no problem with the prosecution lying to Amanda in court. The postal police lied about the time they arrived at the cottage to give the false impression Raffaele called the police after they arrived. Vixen had no issue with police/prosecution making false allegations against Amanda and Raffaele. Vixen bangs on about Amanda telling numerous lies but defends corrupt/police prosecutors who told numerous lies. It is a sign of the industrial scale stupidity of PGP is that they claim the prosecution had a mountain of evidence and a slam dunk case when they had to resort to telling numerous lies.

https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html


• As can be seen from the link below, the media false allegations against Amanda. Vixen had no issue with the media making false allegations. Vixen bangs on about Amanda telling numerous lies but stayed silent about the media telling numerous lies about Amanda.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/”
Welshman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 12:02 PM   #25
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Which State of Italy law enforcement organization closed Lumumba's bar for weeks, even after he'd been cleared? Which Perugia public minister at first called Knox a liar, then claimed that Lumumba had to be arrested solely on her say-so? Doesn't that sound a little strange?

The answer to this might reveal who it was who "ruined Lumumba's life".

BTW - yes indeed, Black lives matter.
The person responsible for that is Amanda Knox. When will she and yourself admit she has to take responsibility for her own actions? Actions have consequences.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 12:05 PM   #26
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Welshman View Post
A reminder from previous posts of the disgusting hypocrisy Vixen shows when attacking Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba. Vixen complains the supreme court acted illegally in annulling the conviction. Numerous laws were broken during the interrogations but for some reason Vixen has no issue with Italian laws being broken when it works against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP posters are so staggeringly stupid they don't see it as hypocritical to attack someone for falsely accusing someone of a crime and then falsely accusing people of crimes yourself.

“Amanda being convicted of Calunnia is a major injustice in this case. Amanda’s rights were violated during the interrogation by being denied access to lawyers. The interrogation was not taped and there is no record of what happened in the interrogation. The two statements below are clearly prepared by the police and short on details. If Amanda has named Lumumba, why did the police prepare statements for the Amanda to sign?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/145Statement.pdf
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/545Statement.pdf

As can be seen from Amanda’s statement below, Amanda withdrew the accusation against Lumumba. Vixen for some reason never mentions this.

http://www.amandaknox.com/wp-content...moriale-II.pdf

The police didn’t carry out a proper investigation. Amanda was not asked what time the murder happened, what was discussed before the murder, what was Lumumba wearing, did Lumumba use a weapon, what happened after the murder. As can be seen from the link below, the police didn’t check witnesses to see if Lumumba was at the bar and only carried out minimal forensic investigations. Lumumba initially said in a statement that the police tried to beat a confession out of him. Lumumba was still held when tests came which excluded him as the rapist. Lumumba’s bar was kept closed after he was released. If Vixen and other PGP care so much about Lumumba, why are the strangely silent about the brutal treatment Lumumba received from the police?

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/patrick-lumumba/

Vixen conveniently forgets that false accusations have been made against Amanda and Raffaele. The witnesses Kokomani, Gioffredi, Curalto and Quintavelle provided false testimony against Amanda and Raffaele. Guede falsely accused Amanda and Raffaele of being at the cottage when he murdered Meredith. Vixen made the false allegation Hellman received a massive bribe to find Amanda and Raffaele not guilty. Vixen and other PGP have attacked Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba and felt a prison sentence was justified but Vixen felt it was perfectly acceptable for people to make false accusations against Amanda and Raffaele and for Vixen to falsely accuse Hellman of committing a crime which is typical of the disgusting and repulsive Vixen shows in her posts. Of all the vile hypocrisy Vixen has shown in her post I feel this ranks as the worst. Vixen viciously attacks Amanda for telling lies and then spreads malicious lies about Hellman being bribed.”


“In addition to the false allegation Hellman received massive bribe, there are other examples where Vixen has made false allegations people have committed crimes. In the posts below Vixen makes a false allegation Vecchiotti was convicted of gross negligence and Vinci used photoshop which would be criminal misconduct. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk why is necessary to resort to lies? Vixen has consistently refused to answer this question. Vixen has made three false allegations people have committed crimes and has the cheek to attack Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba of committing a crime. The evidence suggests Amanda was pressurised into naming Lumumba and Amanda withdrew the allegation. Vixen has made deliberate false allegations without being put under pressure. Vixen says Amanda deserves time in prison and should pay Lumumba but Vixen feels it is perfectly acceptable for her to falsely accuse people of crimes without being punished or be liable to pay money. Vixen has not shown any remorse over these false allegations and has refused to withdraw them. Vixen viciously attacks Amanda for lying and spreads malicious lies about people. Words can’t describe how utterly repulsive this hypocrisy is.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11951893

Post dated 20.03.2016
Claim: and even defense forensic expert 'Photoshop' Vinci discovered Amanda's DNA on the bra, together with Rudy's.
Truth: Amanda’s DNA was not on the clasp and this has never been part of the prosecution’s case. There is no record of the defence agreeing Amanda’s DNA was on the clasp and there is no evidence Vinci used Photoshop.

Another way Vixen shows disgusting hypocrisy is that Vixen has no problem if people make false accusations if they work against Amanda and Raffaele. In addition to witnesses giving false testimony and Rudy lying about Amanda and Raffaele being at the cottage when he killed Meredith, there are other instances where false accusations were made against Amanda and Raffaele :-

• As can be seen from the links below the prosecution fed false information about the purchase of bleach, the washing machine running, Amanda showering in a blood bathroom, the Harry Potter book. Prosecutor Comodi lied to Amanda in court saying she had called her mother at 12.00 pm when in fact phone records showed she phoned her mother at 12.47 pm. In yet another example of disgusting hypocrisy, Vixen attacked Amanda and Raffaele for lying in court but had no problem with the prosecution lying to Amanda in court. The postal police lied about the time they arrived at the cottage to give the false impression Raffaele called the police after they arrived. Vixen had no issue with police/prosecution making false allegations against Amanda and Raffaele. Vixen bangs on about Amanda telling numerous lies but defends corrupt/police prosecutors who told numerous lies. It is a sign of the industrial scale stupidity of PGP is that they claim the prosecution had a mountain of evidence and a slam dunk case when they had to resort to telling numerous lies.

https://knoxsollecito.wordpress.com/...ele-sollecito/
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html


• As can be seen from the link below, the media false allegations against Amanda. Vixen had no issue with the media making false allegations. Vixen bangs on about Amanda telling numerous lies but stayed silent about the media telling numerous lies about Amanda.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/”
Knox did not withdraw her false accusation of rape and murder against Lumumba. In her own time and in her own writing, she presented a statement to a police officer (Ficarra) calling it a 'present' and underlining the murderer rapist was Lumumba.

Amanda Knox is responsible for her behaviour. Full stop.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 12:08 PM   #27
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The truly bizarre state of affairs these days is that 5 years after her exoneration for murder, and a year (or 2?) after the ECHR ruled that Italy wrongly convicted Knox for calunnia against Lumumba......

.... that there are some, including Piers friggin' Morgan, who are on a hair-trigger while monitoring obsessively the twitter feed of some random Seattleite.

It's good that there's no one out there obsessing with me, on a daily look for a gaffe I might make. And then they hire a paparazzi to stalk me on the street, for a front page piece in the Daily Mail!
Why, what have you done? Surely not maliciously reported a person you know for a fact to be innocent to the police as a murderer/rapist? If you did then boo-hoo so sad you get doorstepped by a hack. Poor you and **** the person whose life you ruined.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 12:30 PM   #28
TomG
Critical Thinker
 
TomG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
The truly bizarre state of affairs these days is that 5 years after her exoneration for murder, and a year (or 2?) after the ECHR ruled that Italy wrongly convicted Knox for calunnia against Lumumba......

.... that there are some, including Piers friggin' Morgan, who are on a hair-trigger while monitoring obsessively the twitter feed of some random Seattleite.

It's good that there's no one out there obsessing with me, on a daily look for a gaffe I might make. And then they hire a paparazzi to stalk me on the street, for a front page piece in the Daily Mail!
I wonder if any of those high profile names who criticised Amanda's tweet used their extensive media platforms to bring the World's attention to the fact that it was the 13th anniversary of Meredith's death on the 2nd November when it really mattered?

Hoots
__________________
The pro-guilt psychology is that if you can't nail K&S with evidence, don't presume innocence, try something else.
TomG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 02:21 PM   #29
Welshman
Muse
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 794
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Knox did not withdraw her false accusation of rape and murder against Lumumba. In her own time and in her own writing, she presented a statement to a police officer (Ficarra) calling it a 'present' and underlining the murderer rapist was Lumumba.

Amanda Knox is responsible for her behaviour. Full stop.
Could Vixen explain why she refused to address the hypocrisy in my post. I will break things down into questions to make things simple.

1) Vixen complaints the supreme court acted illegally in annulling the conviction. How does Vixen explain the hypocrisy of condoning the police breaking Italian laws during the interrogation, Amanda being convicted of Calunia on the basis of an illegal interrogation and Vixen has no issue with Italian laws being broken when they work against Amanda and Raffaele?

2) How does explain the hypocrisy of attacking Amanda for falsely accusing Amanda of a crime when Vixen has on several occasions falsely accused people of crimes?

3) How does Vixen explain the hypocrisy of expecting Amanda to apologise for falsely accusing Lumumba, spend time in prison and pay damages whilst Vixen has shown no remorse for falsely accusing people of crimes, has never apologized, doesn’t expect to pay damages or spend time in prison.

4) How does Vixen explain the hypocrisy of claiming to care about Lumumba whilst slavishly defending police/prosecutors who committed numerous abuses against Lumumba? If Vixen is so concerned about racism, why does she have no issue with the Perugia calling Lumumba a dirty black?

5) How does Vixen explain the hypocrisy of attacking Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba but had no issue when people made false allegations against Amanda and Raffaele such as witnesses lying and Guede lying about Amanda and Raffaele being at the cottage when he killed Meredith?

6) How does Vixen explain the hypocrisy of attacking Amanda and others for lying when spreading malicious lies about people?

7) If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk and the evidence so strong as Vixen claims, why does Vixen need to resort to lies such as falsely accusing people of crimes?

8) Does Vixen have any understanding of her hypocrisy? If Vixen can’t grasp something as simple that it is hypocritical to falsely accuse people of crimes whilst attacking others for doing the same, how can Vixen be in a position to call people stupid?



Vixen is still repeating the lie Amanda never apologized or withdrew the allegation.

http://www.amandaknoxcase.net/the-interrogation/
Welshman is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 02:21 PM   #30
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
HELLOOOO!!! You do know she was jailed for three years for criminal calunnia. Are you seriously claiming it doesn't matter that she ruined Patrick Lumumba's life? Black lives matter!
"Black Lives Matter"? LOL!!! Are you seriously trying to use that card? What an insult to Meredith and to black people who died at the hands of overzealous cops. Disgusting.

Umm.....you do know that she was jailed for one year for calunnia by Massei and only retroactively sentenced for the 3 years after she had already spent almost 4 years in prison and had already left Italy and was back in the US? So 3 of her 4 years she actually spent in prison were for a crime she was later acquitted for not having committed.

She didn't ruin Lumumba's life. He spent 2 weeks in jail thanks to some overzealous cops and a prosecutor who jumped to a conclusion before doing a bare minimum of investigatory work. They didn't even bother to find out if Lumumba had an alibi for the night of the murder before barging in and dragging him out of his apartment at dawn. That's police work 101. The Keystone Kops looked like Scotland Yard next to those yahoos.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 5th November 2020 at 02:25 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 03:50 PM   #31
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why, what have you done?
Truly a bizarre post. I've done lots in the gaffe department.

Remember: this started off as an Amanda Knox tweet. You pivoted quite abruptly to a 13-year-old allegation against her, that bizarrely turned into a conviction, one which the ECHR ruled that Italy must now rectify.

But, I've made lots of gaffes. What's missing in my life is strangers lurking behind computer screens, thousands of miles away on a hair trigger!

"Did you see that!? He made a gaffe. Typical He's probably a murderer and doesn't know that Black lives matter!"

I've got no one, no one of stature anyway (like Piers frigging Morgan) who has a small corner of their brain ready to pounce (at a complete stranger) at a moments' notice.

Where can I get someone like that to become so creepily obsessed!?
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 07:34 PM   #32
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Lightbulb

I'd like to know how PL's life was 'ruined'. His club wasn't doing well before he knew Amanda's name. That's why he hired her in the first place; the uni kids didn't like Le Chic preferring Merlin's, Domus and other nightclubs. Le Chic was dull and had a few local old timers. He hired AK to bring in the uni kids.

Mignini kept PL in jail longer than necessary as Guede was identified and PL ruled out within the first week after his arrest. Yet Mignini kept him in jail, refusing to admit he'd made a mistake:
Quote:
FIVE DAYS AFTER THE arrests, Perugia newspapers began reporting what police had known within the first week after the arrests— that none of the fingerprints or DNA they had picked up in the murder room belonged to any of the three people they had in jail. On the contrary, the prints belonged to a Perugia man whose fingerprints were on file but who was currently nowhere to be found. By November 11, police revealed to selected reporters that there was “a fourth man” involved. According to the London Telegraph, he was “a North African musician” who could be seen in parking garage video footage heading toward the murder house just before nine at night. The man was not Moroccan, he was not a musician, and he would be identified not by the faulty video cameras of the parking lot but by his own fingerprints. As soon as the National Scientific Police had the prints, the Perugia police had his name. It didn’t take long to find him.
Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (pp. 206-207).

After his release, PL was paid, IIRC, around $75K for his Daily Mail hit job on Amanda which was full of provable lies about her. The one where he accuses the Perugia police of hitting, kicking and punching him, calling him a "dirty black" and denying him food and drink. $75K was probably more money that Le Chic made in months...if ever. He was also paid €8000 as compensation for his unjust arrest.

Mignini kept PL's club closed for 3 months after he had been completely cleared of anything to do with the murder. WHY? If anyone "ruined" PL's life, it was Mignini and his Keystone Kops. Even that PGP darling, Barbie Nadeau, recognizes that the police were responsible for PL losing his business. From her book, Angel Face:

Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 08:09 PM   #33
TruthCalls
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,480
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Exactly. I pointed this out to someone else in another forum who then had to agree that she had inferred something that simply wasn't there. Amanda jokingly compared her 4 years in prison to Trump's horrific 4 years in office as president. There was no reference to Meredith or to her murder yet Vixen and others saw one because they wanted to see one.
Actually, what Amanda said was "Whatever happens, the next four years can't be as bad as that four-year study abroad I did in Italy, right?"

The "next four years" is not referring to the past four years of Trump's presidency. Perhaps she finds neither candidate appealing, hence the "Whatever happens" portion of her statement. There was no reference to Trump's four years in office yet you saw one because you wanted to see one.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
TruthCalls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 09:50 PM   #34
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Knox hits back at Piers Morgan

Knox hits back at Piers Morgan.

"Occasionally I joke about my wrongful conviction & imprisonment in Italy. I'm allowed to joke about my own trauma. I didn't joke about the Kercher's. I didn't kill Meredith. Rudy Guede did, & you know it. Stop exploiting Meredith's name to victim blame me. You're pathetic."
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 10:54 PM   #35
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Actually, what Amanda said was "Whatever happens, the next four years can't be as bad as that four-year study abroad I did in Italy, right?"

The "next four years" is not referring to the past four years of Trump's presidency. Perhaps she finds neither candidate appealing, hence the "Whatever happens" portion of her statement. There was no reference to Trump's four years in office yet you saw one because you wanted to see one.

Sorry, couldn't resist.
Nah, I simply misread. Besides, whether or not she finds Biden appealing, we know she finds Trump less appealing as she has clearly stated her disapproval of him in 2016.

Quote:
Trump's politics concern me in a very personal way. Chris and I want to start a family in the next few years, but since Tuesday, I've worried that my healthcare may be in jeopardy when Obamacare is repealed. I've worried that Pence's history of invasive, obstructive, and misinformed policies about women's reproductive health will affect my options should something go wrong with a pregnancy. I've fretted over the future of my LGBT friends. I've cried out in outrage over rumors of the immanent appointments of climate-change-denier Myron Ebell to the head of the Environmental Protection Agency and creationist Ben Carson to head of the Department of Education. Trump doesn't support the values I believe in, so I don't support him for President. Simple as that."
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2020, 10:56 PM   #36
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 18,249
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Knox hits back at Piers Morgan.

"Occasionally I joke about my wrongful conviction & imprisonment in Italy. I'm allowed to joke about my own trauma. I didn't joke about the Kercher's. I didn't kill Meredith. Rudy Guede did, & you know it. Stop exploiting Meredith's name to victim blame me. You're pathetic."
Good for her. She'd tired of other people telling her what she can and cannot say about her own experiences.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th November 2020, 10:27 AM   #37
Bill Williams
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 14,924
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Good for her. She'd tired of other people telling her what she can and cannot say about her own experiences.
Thus the title of her book.

What is it with people? Remember Hallowe'en 2011? She was pilloried for dressing as a cat burglar, criticized mercilessly for insensitivity to the Kerchers on the, then, fourth anniversary of the latter's death.

Two problems.

1) It was not the anniversary. That would be the next day.

2) Knox, in fact, had dressed as her favourite Seattle Sounder soccer player, who happened to be a Frenchman. She had on a Parisian tam, and drew a curly mustache on her lip.

But why let an opportunity pass to shame a stranger, and have the Tabloids make some money off of Kercher's death - even four years later.
__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else.
Bill Williams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th November 2020, 10:52 AM   #38
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
"Black Lives Matter"? LOL!!! Are you seriously trying to use that card? What an insult to Meredith and to black people who died at the hands of overzealous cops. Disgusting.

Umm.....you do know that she was jailed for one year for calunnia by Massei and only retroactively sentenced for the 3 years after she had already spent almost 4 years in prison and had already left Italy and was back in the US? So 3 of her 4 years she actually spent in prison were for a crime she was later acquitted for not having committed.

She didn't ruin Lumumba's life. He spent 2 weeks in jail thanks to some overzealous cops and a prosecutor who jumped to a conclusion before doing a bare minimum of investigatory work. They didn't even bother to find out if Lumumba had an alibi for the night of the murder before barging in and dragging him out of his apartment at dawn. That's police work 101. The Keystone Kops looked like Scotland Yard next to those yahoos.
Lumumba spent two weeks in jail (not knowing when he'd be released or exonerated) because of the false accusation of Amanda Knox.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th November 2020, 10:55 AM   #39
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Truly a bizarre post. I've done lots in the gaffe department.

Remember: this started off as an Amanda Knox tweet. You pivoted quite abruptly to a 13-year-old allegation against her, that bizarrely turned into a conviction, one which the ECHR ruled that Italy must now rectify.

But, I've made lots of gaffes. What's missing in my life is strangers lurking behind computer screens, thousands of miles away on a hair trigger!

"Did you see that!? He made a gaffe. Typical He's probably a murderer and doesn't know that Black lives matter!"

I've got no one, no one of stature anyway (like Piers frigging Morgan) who has a small corner of their brain ready to pounce (at a complete stranger) at a moments' notice.

Where can I get someone like that to become so creepily obsessed!?
Firstly, I think you would need to have a serious personality disorder to carry out a 'thrill kill' on your room mate. This is something inherent in a person's make up, so I shouldn't worry if I were you that you'll ever be facing charges of Aggravated Murder.

Some critic who disapproves of such behaviour would be the least of your worries.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th November 2020, 10:57 AM   #40
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 21,671
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'd like to know how PL's life was 'ruined'. His club wasn't doing well before he knew Amanda's name. That's why he hired her in the first place; the uni kids didn't like Le Chic preferring Merlin's, Domus and other nightclubs. Le Chic was dull and had a few local old timers. He hired AK to bring in the uni kids.

Mignini kept PL in jail longer than necessary as Guede was identified and PL ruled out within the first week after his arrest. Yet Mignini kept him in jail, refusing to admit he'd made a mistake:

Burleigh, Nina. The Fatal Gift of Beauty: The Trials of Amanda Knox (pp. 206-207).

After his release, PL was paid, IIRC, around $75K for his Daily Mail hit job on Amanda which was full of provable lies about her. The one where he accuses the Perugia police of hitting, kicking and punching him, calling him a "dirty black" and denying him food and drink. $75K was probably more money that Le Chic made in months...if ever. He was also paid €8000 as compensation for his unjust arrest.

Mignini kept PL's club closed for 3 months after he had been completely cleared of anything to do with the murder. WHY? If anyone "ruined" PL's life, it was Mignini and his Keystone Kops. Even that PGP darling, Barbie Nadeau, recognizes that the police were responsible for PL losing his business. From her book, Angel Face:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...4b56ac0f8c.jpg
Sheesh! Most people even spending one day in jail would have a nervous breakdown. You don't see Lumumba as a real person do you? Yet Knox on the other hand...

Reveals a lot about yourself.
__________________
Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder,

vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Trials and Errors

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:43 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.