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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , joe biden , Trump conspiracies

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Old 2nd December 2020, 06:15 PM   #161
Aridas
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Just because...

Trump’s witnesses in Michigan fraud hearing make ridiculous claims

To poke at a couple summary excerpts...

Quote:
He is now crying because he needs proof the votes are valid (not that they were fraudulent) or they will not accept the results. Now getting applause.
Quote:
This is Dave. Dave is struggling a little but to get his story out. His proof of fraud is that they stopped counting at night and in the morning when they restarted it was too quiet in the room.
Quote:
This is Holly there was fraud because she felt like the democrat watchers were looking at her.
Quote:
Here's Bill. I'm not sure what he's doing here. He doesn't seem positive either. He says the counting room was hot, he carried a thermometer that said 85 degrees.
Quote:
Mr Parker. He said he got tired waiting to get into watch the votes being counted and left. He thinks because of this they should pass a law to redo the entire election.
Quote:
Vickie. An Asian man brought in ballots to be counted. That's it. That was her whole story.
Quote:
Ronna Ross. You'll never guess. She felt harassed. She switched lanyards and lied about her party affiliation which she just admitted. There was not any signage for signing in and out, that was it.
And so on...
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Old 2nd December 2020, 08:09 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Retweeted

Arizona Republican Party
@AZGOP
In today's update, Chairwoman @kelliwardaz announces the findings from our investigation of 100 duplicate ballots, in which TWO votes were discovered to have been altered and removed from President @realDonaldTrump's total.
I gather from AP that one of these ballots had both Trump and a write in candidate indicated.

Interesting to see the details of the other.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 08:14 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
I gather from AP that one of these ballots had both Trump and a write in candidate indicated.

Interesting to see the details of the other.
To clarify, the allegation is that the duplication process created a blank write in, which caused the vote to be invalidated.

From AZCentral:

Quote:
The Arizona Republic requested copies of the ballots in question in order to independently assess the claims, but the request went unfulfilled by Ward's legal team and GOP representatives.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ys/3799242001/
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Last edited by Robin; 2nd December 2020 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 08:26 PM   #164
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2500 more duplicate ballots are being audited.

I wonder if there is any independent oversight of the highly partisan people doing this audit.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 08:37 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Just because...

Explaining #WhereIsGinaHaspel
Quote:
A QANon rooted conspiracy theory, endorsed by Representative Louie Gohmert, claims that about a week ago the United States Army (or sometimes it’s Navy Seals) conducted a raid on Dominion Software servers in Frankfort Germany. For some reason, they often misspell Haspel's name as "Hasple" when pushing the theory.
It was a violent raid that was resisted by Haspel’s bodyguards. Haspel tried to resist the raid because she was secretly in league with the myriad Deep State forces that rigged the election against Trump. The truth was supposedly at this location in Frankfort, so having somehow gotten advance notice of the raid she went there, rounded up some bodyguards and tried to defend the location.
Alas, resistance was futile and the Army (or whatever) forces overcame Haspel's forces. In the shootout Haspel was killed. Another variant of the story claims she was injured and whisked off to Gitmo where she is being charged with treason and is "singing like a canary."
The conspiracy theory concludes that the Army (or whoever) has the proof of election rigging seized in this raid (along with Haspel's confession) and that Trump is preparing to announce all this along with imposing martial law to secure his position until there can be a new election.
Expect the movie this script is for to appear under the "Jack Ryan" stable some time in 2022.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 09:05 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
2500 more duplicate ballots are being audited.

I wonder if there is any independent oversight of the highly partisan people doing this audit.
There was a certified observer for the plaintiff, plaintiff's counsel, defendant's counsel, and counsel for the Secretary of State (who is an intervenor for the defense.)
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Old 2nd December 2020, 09:07 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Apparently Sidney Powell filed a lawsuit that included Derrick Van Orden, without his permission to do so. That will get you disbarred.

We'll see.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 09:31 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Anger because now Trump & co are also threatening "real Americans"?

I mean, the "lock her up", "2nd amendment solutions", "treason" talk, have been going on for years.
Now he's angry? Now he sees that's not OK.

Better this guy than the sycophants who still follow Trump (yes, Ted Cruz, you too), but really, nothing Trump and co are doing now should come as surprise to anyone.
As you say their "surprise" is rather revealing.

Meh.

Leopards ... faces ... etc., etc..

There's more honor to be expected among thieves than among narcissistic, hypocritical, bigots and racists whose only guiding principle is to accumulate more power at any cost.

I'd only be surprised that they should find it surprising.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 09:41 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Robin View Post
To clarify, the allegation is that the duplication process created a blank write in, which caused the vote to be invalidated.

From AZCentral:
It is a bit odd. They are rather vague on what happened. The motion for continued inspection reporting on the findings on the 100 ballots and asking to now review 2,500 ballots says:

Quote:
A second ballot was also identified on which the original ballot was clearly a vote only
for Trump, but the duplicate ballot had a vote for both Trump and a “blank” write-in candidate,
causing the “Trump” vote to be cancelled (due to an “over-vote”).
That could mean that the election worker incorrectly wrote the "blank" on the write-in line. But it doesn't say that. It only says it was "clearly a vote only
for Trump". That makes it sound like the voter wrote the word "blank" on the write-in line and that got copied to the duplicated ballot and that is something that would cause the machine to record it as a overvote even though there clearly was not actually a write-candidate.

I'm not sure how that works in Arizona. In other state an overvote from a write-in would require that the ballot be manually reviewed to determine whether there is actually a write-in and not just some markings like a line or "x" or something by the voter to indicate no write-in candidate.

There were no errors found in the review of 100 mail-in ballots. A team of handwriting experts reviewed the signatures for those ballots. No fraudulent signatures were found. There were 8-10% that were inconclusive because they did not have the number of required sample signatures available to meet the standards for expert handwriting analysis. But of all the signatures that could be reviewed, there were no errors found.

That is 2 errors out of 100 duplicated ballots reviewed. There were no other errors (at least as it affected any votes for Trump or Biden). One was a switch to Biden from Trump, which would diminished Biden's lead by 2 votes. And one vote for Trump not counted which would diminished Biden's lead by 1 vote. That decreases Biden's lead by 3 votes.

Arizona has not released the total number of duplicated ballots, but there are reports of an estimate of 28,000. If the error rate of the initial review remains constant in a review of all of those ballots, it would decrease Biden's lead by 840 votes leaving a lead of 9,617.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 03:48 AM   #170
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Trump's team star witness is a drunk woman who achieves the impossible feat of making Giulaini look embarrassed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334315220815278080

Last edited by hurdygurdy; 3rd December 2020 at 04:08 AM.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:44 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by hurdygurdy View Post
Trump's team star witness is a drunk woman who achieves the impossible feat of making Giulaini look embarrassed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334315220815278080
That’s obviously fake video, it’s even got Lex Luther in it!
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Old 3rd December 2020, 08:38 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by hurdygurdy View Post
Trump's team star witness is a drunk woman who achieves the impossible feat of making Giulaini look embarrassed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1334315220815278080
Was this another "hearing" held in a hotel banquet room?
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Old 3rd December 2020, 09:00 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Was this another "hearing" held in a hotel banquet room?
No. This was an actual hearing, although with some unusual twists, like not having people take oaths before testifying.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interes...our-power.html
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Old 3rd December 2020, 09:10 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That’s obviously fake video, it’s even got Lex Luther in it!
"Luthor." They changed the name at Ellis Island.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 09:13 AM   #175
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Trump Tweets

Georgia hearings now on @OANN. Amazing!

The “Republican” Governor of Georgia, @BrianKempGA, and the Secretary of State, MUST immediately allow a signature verification match on the Presidential Election. If that happens, we quickly and easily win the State and importantly, pave the way for a big David and Kelly WIN!
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:25 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Georgia hearings now on @OANN. Amazing!

The “Republican” Governor of Georgia, @BrianKempGA, and the Secretary of State, MUST immediately allow a signature verification match on the Presidential Election. If that happens, we quickly and easily win the State and importantly, pave the way for a big David and Kelly WIN!


Man, that leopard has eaten so many faces, he's going to have to go on a diet after the inauguration.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:28 AM   #177
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The Dear Leader couldn't be left out of the Bolivarian team that stole the elections

Roger Stone Says North Korean Boats Delivered Ballots Through Maine Harbor As Trump Boosts Fraud Claims
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:29 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Georgia hearings now on @OANN. Amazing!

The “Republican” Governor of Georgia, @BrianKempGA, and the Secretary of State, MUST immediately allow a signature verification match on the Presidential Election. If that happens, we quickly and easily win the State and importantly, pave the way for a big David and Kelly WIN!
Doubtful, out.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:30 AM   #179
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Also from the Michigan hearing:

https://twitter.com/IsaacDovere/stat...81562193317888

Quote:
Edward-Isaac Dovere
@IsaacDovere
“I think Chinese all look alike. How can you tell? If some Chow shows up, you can be anybody and you can vote.” -one of Rudy Giuliani’s witnesses yesterday insisting there must have been voter fraud in Michigan

Yes, it’s an actual quote.
From
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12:56 PM · Dec 3, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
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Old 3rd December 2020, 12:17 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Just because...

Trump’s witnesses in Michigan fraud hearing make ridiculous claims

To poke at a couple summary excerpts...














And so on...
I read a little of a document that purported to be affidavits from Pennsylvania. This appeared to be a pdf made from a scan of handwritten affidavits, so was not the easiest thing to read. I sampled only a pretty small portion of it, but it seemed primarily to be Republican poll watchers miffed that they had been made to follow some rule or other that they didn't like, and therefore the whole process was fraudulent.

As for the one about an Asian man carrying ballots, I have no doubt that many trumpanzees firmly believe that only white people should be handling ballots.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 12:22 PM   #181
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Trump Tweets

Wow! Blockbuster testimony taking place right now in Georgia. Ballot stuffing by Dems when Republicans were forced to leave the large counting room. Plenty more coming, but this alone leads to an easy win of the State!
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Old 3rd December 2020, 12:23 PM   #182
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Trump Retweeted

Team Trump
@TeamTrump
Video footage from Georgia shows that poll workers were told to stop counting and leave, while 4 people stayed behind to continue counting ballots in private

(video in link)
(https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status...66301205925889)
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Old 3rd December 2020, 12:25 PM   #183
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Trump Retweeted

Team Trump
@TeamTrump
WATCH: Video footage from Georgia shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table AFTER supervisors told poll workers to leave room and 4 people stayed behind to keep counting votes


(video in link)

https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status...69329334083586
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Old 3rd December 2020, 01:23 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I remember this because I mentally weighed it against Carl Sagan’s words: “I don’t want to believe. I want to know”.
(Off-topic)

Probably not from Sagan.

I was curious because I'm used to believing to be a necessary precondition for knowing. The sense I use the term (which is common in epistemology) is that belief means something like accepting as true, with or without evidence. Some people (like the author of that quote) use the term belief to mean accepting as true without evidence.

The person answering the question on quora is, to be sure, no authority known to me, but his argument seems plausible. The nub is that Sagan's use of the term "believe" is similar to mine, which would make the quotation nonsensical.

Sorry, your quotation just made me curious so I very briefly looked into it. I could sure be wrong and Sagan maybe did say it somewhere, but he's also the kind of author that quotes get attached to. Anyway, thought I'd mention it.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 01:26 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
They shouldn't have a problem with it, since, in fact, "Swing-state counties that used Dominion voting machines mostly voted for Trump" (Washington Post via MSN):
Pretty easy to explain this.

Suppose you had a cheating voting machine. Where would you put it? I'd put it in counties that are deep red and change a smallish percentage of the vote, so that the county remained red but not quite so red. Do this in enough places and you flip the state.

Not that I'm suggesting this happened, of course. Just pointing out that this isn't particularly good evidence against a conspiracy.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 01:32 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Anger because now Trump & co are also threatening "real Americans"?

I mean, the "lock her up", "2nd amendment solutions", "treason" talk, have been going on for years.
Now he's angry? Now he sees that's not OK.

Better this guy than the sycophants who still follow Trump (yes, Ted Cruz, you too), but really, nothing Trump and co are doing now should come as surprise to anyone.
Now the targets are his colleagues and employees and he has taken an official stand. Whether he should have privately taken a stand previously is a whole separate matter. Pretty common for folks to take a stand only against the opposition after all.

I've never taken a public stand against threats of violence by Trump's followers or, oh, I don't know, Antifa? Do they make threats? If they do, I ain't never said anything publicly about it and if I did, no one would give a damn.

This guy is a bit more authoritative than me, sure, but I don't necessarily criticize him for not speaking out until the threats fell on the turf of his office. (I will certainly critize Congressmen who never comment on Trump's abhorrent behavior, because that's a lot more in their purview.)
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Old 3rd December 2020, 01:40 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Pretty easy to explain this.

Suppose you had a cheating voting machine. Where would you put it? I'd put it in counties that are deep red and change a smallish percentage of the vote, so that the county remained red but not quite so red. Do this in enough places and you flip the state.

Not that I'm suggesting this happened, of course. Just pointing out that this isn't particularly good evidence against a conspiracy.
Well, no evidence against a conspiracy is needed. At least not as long as no evidence FOR one exists.

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Old 3rd December 2020, 01:56 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by hurdygurdy View Post
The Dear Leader couldn't be left out of the Bolivarian team that stole the elections

Roger Stone Says North Korean Boats Delivered Ballots Through Maine Harbor As Trump Boosts Fraud Claims
Bahahahahaha!

So dumb. Maine? Really? You could have said literally any coastal state, and you chose Maine?! Washington state is a hell of a lot closer, Roger.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 02:35 PM   #189
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Trump Tweets

“Nevada 'fraud': 1,500 ‘dead’ voters, 42,248 voted ‘multiple times,’ RV camps as 'homes'”
The Trump campaign on Wednesday unveiled a tranche of information it plans to present to a Nevada state court Thursday that suggests that there were thousands of fraudulent votes cast -- possibly...
washingtonexaminer.com
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Old 3rd December 2020, 02:36 PM   #190
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Trump Tweets

Dominion contractor at Detroit counting center says thousands of ballots were scanned multiple times
Melissa Carone provided Tuesday evening testimony in Michigan
justthenews.com

Pro-Biden effort offered Native Americans $25-$500 Visa gift cards, jewelry to vote
Key Native American leaders working with the Biden campaign offered tribal members and associates Visa gift cards, jewelry and other “swag” to vote in the presidential election, according to several...
washingtonexaminer.com
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Old 3rd December 2020, 05:16 PM   #191
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Rudy Tweets

ELECTION IN GEORGIA IS NOW PROVEN TO BE A FRAUD.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 05:33 PM   #192
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There was supposed to be a hearing on an actual fraud case in Nevada, where Republicans were going to actually put actual evidence in front of an actual court.

But, actually, it appears they dropped the case.

https://knpr.org/headline/2020-12/ne...-fraud-lawsuit

I'm not absolutely certain the case in the story above is the same case I was expecting to be heard today, but I think it is. It's so hard to keep all of them straight. They seem to all have the same themes, and all have the same outcomes, so they end up all looking the same.



ETA: The lawsuit I was expecting to get a hearing was the one referenced in this story: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ing-on-lawsuit. It's not clear to me if that was the same lawsuit dropped later that day.
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Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?

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Old 3rd December 2020, 05:33 PM   #193
turingtest
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Rudy Tweets

ELECTION IN GEORGIA IS NOW PROVEN TO BE A FRAUD.
(Sigh) Sometimes I think the basic problem with politics in the US today is that there are entirely too many people who don't actually understand what that word means, led by too many others who do but don't care as long as they can use it to fleece the first set.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:06 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, no evidence against a conspiracy is needed. At least not as long as no evidence FOR one exists.

Hans
I was just pointing out that a reasonably intelligent believer in the theft of the election would not be persuaded by such reasoning.

Yes, yes, I know, everyone will balk at that phrase "reasonably intelligent believer" but in fact I think they exist. Most conspiracy theories sucker in some reasonably intelligent folks and this one has the advantage of an authority pushing it.

I don't talk politics to too many Trumpers. One old college buddy I talk to once in a while. I don't talk politics to my Okie family, because it's useless. I have a friend at the marina who is a Trump supporter. I don't know him too well, but last time I saw him, he was speaking glowingly of Sidney Powell and totally buys into the theft of the election narrative. Aside from his wholehearted support of the president, he always struck me as reasonably intelligent, but I'll admit that I don't know him well enough to make a confident judgment.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:11 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by hurdygurdy View Post
The Dear Leader couldn't be left out of the Bolivarian team that stole the elections

Roger Stone Says North Korean Boats Delivered Ballots Through Maine Harbor As Trump Boosts Fraud Claims
Quote:
I just learned of absolute incontrovertible evidence of North Korean boats delivering ballots through a harbor in Maine, the state of Maine, Stone said. If this checks out, ....
First sentence says he has "absolute incontrovertible evidence". The second sentence undermines the first. Trump does have the best people around him ... the best at making "absolute incontrovertible" fools of themselves.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:40 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
First sentence says he has "absolute incontrovertible evidence". The second sentence undermines the first. Trump does have the best people around him ... the best at making "absolute incontrovertible" fools of themselves.
When I see "Roger Stone says..." I know that what follows is utter crap.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:42 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Rudy Tweets

ELECTION IN GEORGIA IS NOW PROVEN TO BE A FRAUD.
Finally, some resolution. Now, can we all just get along move on?
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:43 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
There was supposed to be a hearing on an actual fraud case in Nevada, where Republicans were going to actually put actual evidence in front of an actual court.

But, actually, it appears they dropped the case.

https://knpr.org/headline/2020-12/ne...-fraud-lawsuit

I'm not absolutely certain the case in the story above is the same case I was expecting to be heard today, but I think it is. It's so hard to keep all of them straight. They seem to all have the same themes, and all have the same outcomes, so they end up all looking the same.



ETA: The lawsuit I was expecting to get a hearing was the one referenced in this story: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ing-on-lawsuit. It's not clear to me if that was the same lawsuit dropped later that day.
the lawsuit that is still active is no doubt the one with ALL the evidence.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:44 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I was just pointing out that a reasonably intelligent believer in the theft of the election would not be persuaded by such reasoning.

Yes, yes, I know, everyone will balk at that phrase "reasonably intelligent believer" but in fact I think they exist. Most conspiracy theories sucker in some reasonably intelligent folks and this one has the advantage of an authority pushing it.

I don't talk politics to too many Trumpers. One old college buddy I talk to once in a while. I don't talk politics to my Okie family, because it's useless. I have a friend at the marina who is a Trump supporter. I don't know him too well, but last time I saw him, he was speaking glowingly of Sidney Powell and totally buys into the theft of the election narrative. Aside from his wholehearted support of the president, he always struck me as reasonably intelligent, but I'll admit that I don't know him well enough to make a confident judgment.
can you engage this person on this issue, even very gently at first?
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Old 3rd December 2020, 06:47 PM   #200
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Trump Tweets

People in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in “voting” machines. Great job @BrianKempGA!

Governor @dougducey of Arizona hired a lawyer today. Wouldn’t allowing a strong check of ballots, which would be easier and so much better for our Country, be easier on him and the great State of Arizona?
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