Pardons - Page 4

Skeptic Ginger · 19th January 2021, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Athyrio

Showmanship.

He's going back on TV.

That suggests tomorrow to suck up news time away from Biden and from his dismal sendoff. I do predict that is the plan.

Skeptic Ginger · 19th January 2021, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

No- Ford's pardon of Nixon included all possible crimes committed as President- including crimes he had not yet been charged with or convicted of.

Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed.

Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case.

RecoveringYuppy · 19th January 2021, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm really curious if Trump issues any pardons for cover. Will there be any African Americans? Will there be anyone who is poor?

This suggests some might have been determined by more rational minds:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/polit...ist/index.html

trustbutverify · 19th January 2021, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed.

Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case.

Quote:

8. No pardon can be pre-emptive. Only for crimes that have been committed and convicted in the past.

Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.

DevilsAdvocate · 19th January 2021, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm really curious if Trump issues any pardons for cover. Will there be any African Americans? Will there be anyone who is poor?

I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all.

Norman Alexander · 19th January 2021, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.

You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction.

They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence.

Skeptic Ginger · 19th January 2021, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.

A poorly worded sentence?

However, on a news interview today it was said that none of the pardons like Nixon's had ever been tested in court. OTOH, it was noted there is a precedent set on the 4 occasions mentioned.

alfaniner · 19th January 2021, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Is Joe Exotic on the list?

That was one of the reports, yes. But the bigger impact is Steve Bannon.

zorro99 · 19th January 2021, 08:53 PM

CNN is reporting that Bannon is getting pardoned.

trustbutverify · 19th January 2021, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction.

They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence.

Agreed.

trustbutverify · 19th January 2021, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by zorro99

CNN is reporting that Bannon is getting pardoned.

For what...Being a bloated fat head?

RecoveringYuppy · 19th January 2021, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

For what...Being a bloated fat head?

The border wall finance fraud case?

trustbutverify · 19th January 2021, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

The border wall finance fraud case?

I guess. So he can still be tried for the fat head thing.

gypsyjackson · 19th January 2021, 10:41 PM

Why is Trump pardoning former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick? Does he have to give any explanation (or does he choose to)?

DevilsAdvocate · 19th January 2021, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

Why is Trump pardoning former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick? Does he have to give any explanation (or does he choose to)?

He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given.

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.

DevilsAdvocate · 19th January 2021, 11:02 PM

Forbes reports 143 pardons. Not himself, or family, or Rudy.

Does include a pardon for Bannon. Elliott Broidy, who lobbied Trump on behalf of foreign governments. Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Lil Wayne. Rapper Kodak Black. Sholam Weiss, serving a massively long sentence for an insurance fraud scheme a couple decades ago. Salomon Melgen, who ran a Medicare fraud scheme.

acbytesla · 19th January 2021, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all.

I'm not. I'm expecting a lot of rich and connected individuals. Maybe cops that killed suspects.

acbytesla · 19th January 2021, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given.

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.

Looks like it.

Quote:

Convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. He was sentenced to four months in jail and was released on probation after serving 99 days.

On May 25, 2010, Kilpatrick was sentenced to eighteen months to five years in state prison for violating his probation,[3] and served time at the Oaks Correctional Facility in northwest Michigan. On March 11, 2013, he was convicted on 24 federal felony counts, including mail fraud, wire fraud, and racketeering.[4] On October 10, 2013, Kilpatrick was sentenced to 28 years in federal prison.[5] Kilpatrick is currently serving his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Oakdale, in Oakdale, Louisiana. On January 20, 2021, President Donald Trump commuted his sentence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick

gypsyjackson · 19th January 2021, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given.

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.

Thanks. Trying to set precedent perhaps.

DevilsAdvocate · 19th January 2021, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Looks like it.

If I recall, besides the convictions, there was also a bunch of stuff with nepotism and mismanagement of funds and obstruction of justice and other things that Donnie would find so familiar.

DevilsAdvocate · 19th January 2021, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by gypsyjackson

Thanks. Trying to set precedent perhaps.

Perhaps to some degree. I expect more just that he is sympathetic because the things Kilpatrick was found guilty of are exactly what he would have done in the same situation. To him, that looks perfectly fine. His only "real" crime was getting caught.

Segnosaur · 19th January 2021, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.

He may also be doing it because Kilpatrick is black... a way to (falsely) claim "I'm not racist! I pardoned non-white people!"

Matthew Best · 20th January 2021, 12:08 AM

I have just scrolled through the list looking for names I recognised (and didn’t see many) but I did see a large number of non-violent drug offenders with ridiculously long sentences. So it’s not as bad as I feared - Bannon notwithstanding of course.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings..._medium=header

Firestone · 20th January 2021, 12:12 AM

Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect.

Cain · 20th January 2021, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

I have just scrolled through the list looking for names I recognised (and didn’t see many) but I did see a large number of non-violent drug offenders with ridiculously long sentences. So it’s not as bad as I feared - Bannon notwithstanding of course.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings..._medium=header

And what did these crackheads ever do for Trump? You'll never see the MSM point out that Bannon actually EARNED his pardon unlike a lot of the Blacks because dat be racist.

The Great Zaganza · 20th January 2021, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect.

It's hard to imagine a greater slap-in-the-face: it's an admission that for Trump, Build-the-Wall was always a grift.

DevilsAdvocate · 20th January 2021, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect.

And the likely reason for pardoning Bannon is so that he can lead a new Patriot Party that Trump is considering starting up (despite Bannon calling him an "11-year-old child") where Bannon will be asking those same defrauded MAGA-idiots to donate money. And they will. And they will.

The Don · 20th January 2021, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

It's hard to imagine a greater slap-in-the-face: it's an admission that for Trump, Build-the-Wall was always a grift.

The only people who will join the dots, and who actually care, are people who would never have voted for President Trump in any case.

Supporters of President Trump, if they have an opinion, will think that the charges against Steve Bannon were brought as part of a politically-motivated witch hunt and so the pardon is completely justified.

DevilsAdvocate · 20th January 2021, 12:54 AM

In interesting legal matters, considering the very late hour, Biden could maybe theoretically revoke Bannon's pardon. It won't happen, but it possibly could.

Grant revoked two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. The courts upheld the revocations because the prison warden had not delivered the pardon. Another revocation was upheld because the prisoner had physically received the pardon.

If Biden were to revoke Bannon's pardon, that may be upheld if, at that time, it has not been received by the clerks of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, or possibly even if the pardon has not been delivered, by some manner, to Bannon himself.

Probably won't happen. But an interesting idea.

Firestone · 20th January 2021, 01:00 AM

Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning.

DevilsAdvocate · 20th January 2021, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning.

They are thinking about what undisclosed Bannon crimes they are aware of that were not pardoned that they could give for a plea deal. I would guess.

zooterkin · 20th January 2021, 01:29 AM

List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sidency-report

Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-full-list

Quote:

Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.

zooterkin · 20th January 2021, 01:29 AM

List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sidency-report

Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-full-list

Quote:

Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.

Bob001 · 20th January 2021, 01:51 AM

Question: Is there anything that requires a pardon to be announced and recorded? What prevents Trump from signing a pardon for himself, maybe with witnesses, and sitting on it? If he is never indicted, he never produces it; if he is, he unveils it and says "Not so fast."

Firestone · 20th January 2021, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

They are thinking about what undisclosed Bannon crimes they are aware of that were not pardoned that they could give for a plea deal. I would guess.

Amen to that.

From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too."

Is that correct?

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45413120974849

Bob001 · 20th January 2021, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Amen to that.

From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too."

Is that correct?

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45413120974849

The question would be where was Bannon actually raising money? I would think if he was operating in New York, it could easily become a New York city or state case.

DevilsAdvocate · 20th January 2021, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Question: Is there anything that requires a pardon to be announced and recorded? What prevents Trump from signing a pardon for himself, maybe with witnesses, and sitting on it? If he is never indicted, he never produces it; if he is, he unveils it and says "Not so fast."

No. See my post above about court rulings on whether a pardon can be revoked before it is delivered. That is all we have.

The rest would be up to the courts. A secret pardon would almost certainly be considered not valid. A self pardon would almost certainly be considered not valid whether secret or not.

DevilsAdvocate · 20th January 2021, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Amen to that.

From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too."

Is that correct?

https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45413120974849

Maybe. It makes it more complicated. The charges where related to mail fraud, which is federal, and money laundering, which appears to be at least mostly federal.

I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.

I'm sure New York will be looking into what charges they can bring. And attorneys will be looking at civil suits as well. A pardon, if not refused, is basically admitting to the crime, which makes a civil suit a sort of slam dunk.

Firestone · 20th January 2021, 02:18 AM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Maybe. It makes it more complicated. The charges where related to mail fraud, which is federal, and money laundering, which appears to be at least mostly federal.

I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.

I'm sure New York will be looking into what charges they can bring. And attorneys will be looking at civil suits as well. A pardon, if not refused, is basically admitting to the crime, which makes a civil suit a sort of slam dunk.

Thanks.

Of course, the civil suits have to be brought by the defrauded MAGA-idiots.

Bob001 · 20th January 2021, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

....
I have not looked into the details, but these are really Federal charges. There is a decent chance that there are underlying State laws violated as well, but I'm just not sure.
....

But surely fraud is also a state crime?

Quote:

New York federal prosecutors on Thursday charged President Donald Trump's former adviser Steve Bannon and three others with defrauding donors of hundreds of thousands of dollars as part of a fundraising campaign purportedly aimed at supporting Trump's border wall.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/polit...ent/index.html

19th January 2021, 07:11 PM	#124
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,895	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed. Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case. Quote: 8. No pardon can be pre-emptive. Only for crimes that have been committed and convicted in the past. Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged. Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage Last edited by trustbutverify; 19th January 2021 at 07:26 PM.

19th January 2021, 08:12 PM	#125
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm really curious if Trump issues any pardons for cover. Will there be any African Americans? Will there be anyone who is poor? I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

19th January 2021, 08:16 PM	#126
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 9,137	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged. Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal. You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction. They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

19th January 2021, 08:22 PM	#127
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,785	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged. Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal. A poorly worded sentence? However, on a news interview today it was said that none of the pardons like Nixon's had ever been tested in court. OTOH, it was noted there is a precedent set on the 4 occasions mentioned.
	Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 19th January 2021 at 08:23 PM.

19th January 2021, 08:51 PM	#128
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 25,051	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Is Joe Exotic on the list? That was one of the reports, yes. But the bigger impact is Steve Bannon.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

19th January 2021, 06:44 PM	#121
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,785	Originally Posted by Athyrio Showmanship. He's going back on TV. That suggests tomorrow to suck up news time away from Biden and from his dismal sendoff. I do predict that is the plan.

19th January 2021, 06:46 PM	#122
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,785	Originally Posted by trustbutverify No- Ford's pardon of Nixon included all possible crimes committed as President- including crimes he had not yet been charged with or convicted of. Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed. Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case.

19th January 2021, 06:53 PM	#123
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,970	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm really curious if Trump issues any pardons for cover. Will there be any African Americans? Will there be anyone who is poor? This suggests some might have been determined by more rational minds: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/polit...ist/index.html

19th January 2021, 08:53 PM	#129
zorro99 Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 987	CNN is reporting that Bannon is getting pardoned.
zorro99 Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 987	__________________ There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.

19th January 2021, 08:54 PM	#130
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,895	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction. They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence. Agreed.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

19th January 2021, 08:58 PM	#131
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,895	Originally Posted by zorro99 CNN is reporting that Bannon is getting pardoned. For what...Being a bloated fat head?
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

19th January 2021, 09:00 PM	#132
RecoveringYuppy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,970	Originally Posted by trustbutverify For what...Being a bloated fat head? The border wall finance fraud case?

19th January 2021, 09:01 PM	#133
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,895	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy The border wall finance fraud case? I guess. So he can still be tried for the fat head thing.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

19th January 2021, 10:41 PM	#134
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,123	Why is Trump pardoning former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick? Does he have to give any explanation (or does he choose to)?

19th January 2021, 10:54 PM	#135
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by gypsyjackson Why is Trump pardoning former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick? Does he have to give any explanation (or does he choose to)? He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given. My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

19th January 2021, 11:02 PM	#136
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Forbes reports 143 pardons. Not himself, or family, or Rudy. Does include a pardon for Bannon. Elliott Broidy, who lobbied Trump on behalf of foreign governments. Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Lil Wayne. Rapper Kodak Black. Sholam Weiss, serving a massively long sentence for an insurance fraud scheme a couple decades ago. Salomon Melgen, who ran a Medicare fraud scheme.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

19th January 2021, 11:06 PM	#137
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,582	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all. I'm not. I'm expecting a lot of rich and connected individuals. Maybe cops that killed suspects.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th January 2021, 11:12 PM	#138
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,582	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given. My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of. Looks like it. Quote: Convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. He was sentenced to four months in jail and was released on probation after serving 99 days. On May 25, 2010, Kilpatrick was sentenced to eighteen months to five years in state prison for violating his probation,[3] and served time at the Oaks Correctional Facility in northwest Michigan. On March 11, 2013, he was convicted on 24 federal felony counts, including mail fraud, wire fraud, and racketeering.[4] On October 10, 2013, Kilpatrick was sentenced to 28 years in federal prison.[5] Kilpatrick is currently serving his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Oakdale, in Oakdale, Louisiana. On January 20, 2021, President Donald Trump commuted his sentence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

19th January 2021, 11:20 PM	#139
gypsyjackson Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 1,123	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given. My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of. Thanks. Trying to set precedent perhaps.

19th January 2021, 11:21 PM	#140
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by acbytesla Looks like it. If I recall, besides the convictions, there was also a bunch of stuff with nepotism and mismanagement of funds and obstruction of justice and other things that Donnie would find so familiar.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

19th January 2021, 11:23 PM	#141
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by gypsyjackson Thanks. Trying to set precedent perhaps. Perhaps to some degree. I expect more just that he is sympathetic because the things Kilpatrick was found guilty of are exactly what he would have done in the same situation. To him, that looks perfectly fine. His only "real" crime was getting caught.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

19th January 2021, 11:34 PM	#142
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 17,322	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of. He may also be doing it because Kilpatrick is black... a way to (falsely) claim "I'm not racist! I pardoned non-white people!"
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20th January 2021, 12:08 AM	#143
Matthew Best Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 8,435	Pardons I have just scrolled through the list looking for names I recognised (and didn’t see many) but I did see a large number of non-violent drug offenders with ridiculously long sentences. So it’s not as bad as I feared - Bannon notwithstanding of course. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings..._medium=header
	Last edited by Matthew Best; 20th January 2021 at 12:09 AM.

20th January 2021, 12:12 AM	#144
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,998	Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect.
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

20th January 2021, 12:12 AM	#145
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,302	Originally Posted by Matthew Best I have just scrolled through the list looking for names I recognised (and didn’t see many) but I did see a large number of non-violent drug offenders with ridiculously long sentences. So it’s not as bad as I feared - Bannon notwithstanding of course. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings..._medium=header And what did these crackheads ever do for Trump? You'll never see the MSM point out that Bannon actually EARNED his pardon unlike a lot of the Blacks because dat be racist.
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20th January 2021, 12:18 AM	#146
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,860	Originally Posted by Firestone Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect. It's hard to imagine a greater slap-in-the-face: it's an admission that for Trump, Build-the-Wall was always a grift.
	__________________ The things that you're liable To read in the Bible It ain't necessarily so

20th January 2021, 12:22 AM	#147
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by Firestone Trump pardoning Bannon for the crime of defrauding MAGA-idiots is just perfect. And the likely reason for pardoning Bannon is so that he can lead a new Patriot Party that Trump is considering starting up (despite Bannon calling him an "11-year-old child") where Bannon will be asking those same defrauded MAGA-idiots to donate money. And they will. And they will.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

20th January 2021, 12:46 AM	#148
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,593	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza It's hard to imagine a greater slap-in-the-face: it's an admission that for Trump, Build-the-Wall was always a grift. The only people who will join the dots, and who actually care, are people who would never have voted for President Trump in any case. Supporters of President Trump, if they have an opinion, will think that the charges against Steve Bannon were brought as part of a politically-motivated witch hunt and so the pardon is completely justified.

20th January 2021, 12:54 AM	#149
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	In interesting legal matters, considering the very late hour, Biden could maybe theoretically revoke Bannon's pardon. It won't happen, but it possibly could. Grant revoked two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. The courts upheld the revocations because the prison warden had not delivered the pardon. Another revocation was upheld because the prisoner had physically received the pardon. If Biden were to revoke Bannon's pardon, that may be upheld if, at that time, it has not been received by the clerks of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, or possibly even if the pardon has not been delivered, by some manner, to Bannon himself. Probably won't happen. But an interesting idea.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

20th January 2021, 01:00 AM	#150
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,998	Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning.
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

20th January 2021, 01:22 AM	#151
DevilsAdvocate Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,576	Originally Posted by Firestone Wonder what Bannon's three indicted partners in crime, who were not pardoned, must be thinking this morning. They are thinking about what undisclosed Bannon crimes they are aware of that were not pardoned that they could give for a plea deal. I would guess.
	__________________ I don't need to fight to prove I'm right. - Baba O'Riley

20th January 2021, 01:29 AM	#152
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,822	List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sidency-report Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-full-list Quote: Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

20th January 2021, 01:29 AM	#153
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Administrator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 48,822	List of pardons includes Bannon. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sidency-report Full list - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-the-full-list Quote: Trump did not attempt to give himself a pre-emptive pardon, and has not pardoned members of his family or Rudy Giuliani, his former personal lawyer with whom he has fallen out. Julian Assange was another figure subject to speculation who was not on the list. Prosecutors and scholars have, however, said a grey area in the constitution means a president may be able to issue “secret” pardons, without notifying Congress or the public.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20

20th January 2021, 01:51 AM	#154
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 12,963	Question: Is there anything that requires a pardon to be announced and recorded? What prevents Trump from signing a pardon for himself, maybe with witnesses, and sitting on it? If he is never indicted, he never produces it; if he is, he unveils it and says "Not so fast."

20th January 2021, 01:52 AM	#155
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,998	Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate They are thinking about what undisclosed Bannon crimes they are aware of that were not pardoned that they could give for a plea deal. I would guess. Amen to that. From a CNN legal analyst: "And now the feds at SDNY need to walk the Bannon case file across the street to the Manhattan DA. Theft is theft, it's a state crime too." Is that correct? https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status...45413120974849
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan