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Old 14th January 2021, 07:58 PM   #1
ChristianProgressive
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House GOP may have had active roll in planning Capitol attack

The brother of Rep Gozar claims he has first-hand knowledge that his brother was part of planning the "riot". Anoher Congressman says Republicans were guiding groups through the building just days before the 6th. (Source MSNBC).

This is getting serious.
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Old 14th January 2021, 10:14 PM   #2
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It gets worse. AOC is reporting she had reason to suspect that GOP House members were attempting to disclose the location of the 'panic room' where the House and media were hiding during the insurrection.
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Old 14th January 2021, 10:26 PM   #3
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Mikie Sherrill requested an investigation two days ago on unnamed members of Congress who apparently led some of the would-be insurrectionists on a tour of the building the day before.

https://www.facebook.com/RepMikieShe...87226011477981

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Old 14th January 2021, 10:39 PM   #4
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If all of this is true, it's mutiny. We'll probably never know the full extent.

Who from the administration was involved in this plot?
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Old 15th January 2021, 05:45 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
If all of this is true, it's mutiny. We'll probably never know the full extent.
Seditious conspiracy actually
18 USC 2384
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
Seems like a slam dunk case to me.

Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Who from the administration was involved in this plot?
My guess - take your pick out of Gosar, Brooks, Biggs and Boebert - probably more than one of them.
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Old 15th January 2021, 06:36 AM   #6
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The "gave tours to rioters the day before" is silly, though.

Anyone can request and get a guided tour of the Capitol by contacting their congresscritter. Some intern will do it.

We did that when we were in DC. Started at the senate office building and rode the underground tram to the Capitol.

Is there any reason to think it meant anything other than that?
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Old 15th January 2021, 06:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The "gave tours to rioters the day before" is silly, though.

Anyone can request and get a guided tour of the Capitol by contacting their congresscritter. Some intern will do it.

We did that when we were in DC. Started at the senate office building and rode the underground tram to the Capitol.

Is there any reason to think it meant anything other than that?
These facts could probably do a lot of damage to those who were arrested. Evidence of pre-planning opens them up to conspiracy charges.

Whether or not this implicates Congress members depends on how much they knew about the intentions of these people.
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Old 15th January 2021, 06:50 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The "gave tours to rioters the day before" is silly, though.

Anyone can request and get a guided tour of the Capitol by contacting their congresscritter. Some intern will do it.

We did that when we were in DC. Started at the senate office building and rode the underground tram to the Capitol.

Is there any reason to think it meant anything other than that?
The Capital has ben closed for tours since March:

"The Capitol Visitor Center is closed for tours. All tours are cancelled. We regret any inconvenience this may cause you, and we look forward to welcoming you to the Capitol Visitor Center at a future date." - https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan...0future%20date.
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Old 15th January 2021, 06:52 AM   #9
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I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
Was is just pure luck that they couldn't get their hands on the congress?
Were they just too stupid and naive in their planning?

BTW, did the FBI already caught the guy with the white zipties?
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Old 15th January 2021, 07:27 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
Typical Trump's administration omniincompetence.
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Old 15th January 2021, 07:28 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
Was is just pure luck that they couldn't get their hands on the congress?
Were they just too stupid and naive in their planning?

BTW, did the FBI already caught the guy with the white zipties?
My guess based on what we know now is the lack of three things:

1. Weapons
2. Organization
3. Support

You're talking about people that treat the 2nd amendment like a god-given right that the evil satanic liberals have been trying to take away from them forever. They appear however to have been smart enough to understand that had they showed up with all of their weapons they would have been shut down pretty quickly if they had even made it to the capitol with them. This is why the stuff that could do real damage was concealed in vehicles with plans to retrieve them once the revolution started. A few did manage to sneak their weapons in anyway, but it's still beyond belief that more people weren't shot.

The lack of organization was pretty clear before, during, and after the event. We know what certain members of the mob had planned to do from both their social media posts and their obvious threats while the riot was ongoing. Most of the rioters were simply waiting for something to happen and/or to be told what to do. Even after the capitol was breached several of them didn't even know it had been, and the rest of them once inside proceeded to be complete jackasses simply because no one was there to stop them. Most of us though shudder to think about what could have happened had they been united in their goal. There literally wasn't enough ammunition amongst the capitol PD and the Secret Service to stop them all.

Finally, although we know they had support and were encouraged to "fight" by the President, members of Congress (both the House and Senate), the President's family, and pretty much anyone else that has supported and enabled him over the years, when it came right down to it and the real **** started that support evaporated. It's easy enough to let the mob take the fall and hide behind plausible deniability, or even as we have already seen, make false claims that it was someone else entirely (it was ANTIFA!!!).

ETA: Yes, both of the known rioters that had ziptie restraints have been identified and arrested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/10/u...l-arrests.html

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Old 15th January 2021, 07:36 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
BTW, did the FBI already caught the guy with the white zipties?

Yes. He was attending the riot with his mother.
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Old 15th January 2021, 08:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
The political right is fundamentally incompetent. They consider rejection of facts, science and experts to be a virtue, so they effectively live in a magic universe where stuff just happens and we can't anticipate the results of anything we do. This makes planning to achieve a specific result nearly impossible.
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Old 15th January 2021, 09:00 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
House GOP may have had active roll in planning Capitol attack
'Role' not 'roll'. Unless they were rolling them in...
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Old 15th January 2021, 09:49 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The brother of Rep Gozar claims he has first-hand knowledge that his brother was part of planning the "riot". Anoher Congressman says Republicans were guiding groups through the building just days before the 6th. (Source MSNBC).

This is getting serious.
As a phoenician, I remember the ads ran in 2018 where all of Gosar's siblings cut an ad against him. I'm not sure they are talking.

The brother's info is literally a game of telephone.
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Old 15th January 2021, 09:54 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
If all of this is true, it's mutiny. We'll probably never know the full extent.

Who from the administration was involved in this plot?
Here's a hint: their names end in Trump.
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Old 15th January 2021, 10:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The "gave tours to rioters the day before" is silly, though.

Anyone can request and get a guided tour of the Capitol by contacting their congresscritter. Some intern will do it.

We did that when we were in DC. Started at the senate office building and rode the underground tram to the Capitol.

Is there any reason to think it meant anything other than that?
Not that easy. Capitol tours have been shut down since March due to covid restrictions.
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Old 15th January 2021, 11:02 AM   #18
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Hamlet Act III, Scene II

Looks like Lauren Boebert has a guilty conscience. A somewhat heated exchange between she and Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (D-N.Y.) took place after the latter gave an interview with MSNBC earlier this week.
"You said that you could ‘confirm’ a Member of Congress gave Capitol tours to 'insurrectionists' and implied I was that Member of Congress. Your comments are extremely offensive, shameful and dangerous." said Boebert
The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Maloney's reply was short and sweet, with a couple of zingers...
"Um, I’ve never said your name in public, never. Not once. If you’re going to be a gun nut, you probably shouldn’t go off half cocked. I’ll tweet the transcript so you can see … but that might be like 'a fact', so might not help you."
Good to see that some of the Dems are dropping the niceties of being respectful to some of their Repugnican opponents and treating them like the stupid people they are
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Old 15th January 2021, 11:57 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
My guess based on what we know now is the lack of three things:

1. Weapons
SNIP
There were plenty of weapons. I've seen two Capitol police quoted as saying 'they were taking guns off people all day' and that they didn't largely turn to using their own firearms because they 'knew they would lose a shootout'.

And then there were the pipe bombs, fire bombs, clubs, spears, knives, etc.

Tangentially, it is entirely possible the one terrorist getting capped was the only thing that stopped the murder of all those representatives and staff sheltering in that room.

I'm going with a combination of deep incompetence on the side of the insurrectionists (this isn't random chance; the group self-selects for people eager to ignore reality in favor of their personal wishes), the coddling of mostly white conservative views especially by law enforcement, and a great deal of luck being the driving factors of how it turned out this way. How narrow is the zone where the police response was light enough to allow the storming of the Capitol without a shootout, but heavy enough that those under protection were not murdered? Unless one of those who got covid from the rat-licker GOP who refused to wear masks dies of course.
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Old 15th January 2021, 12:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The "gave tours to rioters the day before" is silly, though.

Anyone can request and get a guided tour of the Capitol by contacting their congresscritter. Some intern will do it.

We did that when we were in DC. Started at the senate office building and rode the underground tram to the Capitol.

Is there any reason to think it meant anything other than that?
Not since COVID. Giving a tour requires an exception nowadays.

ETA. Ninja'd.
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Old 15th January 2021, 12:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
'Role' not 'roll'. Unless they were rolling them in...
That's just how they role.
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Old 15th January 2021, 12:29 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Here's a hint: their names end in Trump.
Do their names rhyme with Donald. Ivanka and Junior?
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Old 15th January 2021, 12:34 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Looks like Lauren Boebert has a guilty conscience. A somewhat heated exchange between she and Rep. Sean Patrick Maloney (D-N.Y.) took place after the latter gave an interview with MSNBC earlier this week.
"You said that you could ‘confirm’ a Member of Congress gave Capitol tours to 'insurrectionists' and implied I was that Member of Congress. Your comments are extremely offensive, shameful and dangerous." said Boebert
It's her alright. Lock her up.

Also, she has no conscience. Just fear.
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Old 15th January 2021, 01:19 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
There were plenty of weapons. I've seen two Capitol police quoted as saying 'they were taking guns off people all day' and that they didn't largely turn to using their own firearms because they 'knew they would lose a shootout'.

And then there were the pipe bombs, fire bombs, clubs, spears, knives, etc.

Tangentially, it is entirely possible the one terrorist getting capped was the only thing that stopped the murder of all those representatives and staff sheltering in that room.

I'm going with a combination of deep incompetence on the side of the insurrectionists (this isn't random chance; the group self-selects for people eager to ignore reality in favor of their personal wishes), the coddling of mostly white conservative views especially by law enforcement, and a great deal of luck being the driving factors of how it turned out this way. How narrow is the zone where the police response was light enough to allow the storming of the Capitol without a shootout, but heavy enough that those under protection were not murdered? Unless one of those who got covid from the rat-licker GOP who refused to wear masks dies of course.
I didn't say there weren't any, but apart from pistols, which can be easily concealed, they left the serious stuff back in their vehicles, and we know that at least some of them went to retrieve those things after leaving the Ellipse and on their way to the Capitol. If open carry was legal in DC it would have been a real nightmare, as like I said these are people that would have brought their semi-automatic rifles if they could have done so.
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Old 15th January 2021, 01:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
Was is just pure luck that they couldn't get their hands on the congress?
Were they just too stupid and naive in their planning?

BTW, did the FBI already caught the guy with the white zipties?
I think Trump had them convinced the authorities were on their side and they would be allowed to sweep straight into the chamber to 'detain' Pence, Pelosi, et al.
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Old 15th January 2021, 01:42 PM   #26
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:11 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by carlosy View Post
I still wonder about what made this terrorist operation a fail.
Was is just pure luck that they couldn't get their hands on the congress?
Were they just too stupid and naive in their planning?

BTW, did the FBI already caught the guy with the white zipties?
there was definitely some luck involved

but from what i understand, they thought they were answering a calling from trump to take over the government and set everything right. some of that is from QAnon lies and online discussions, some of it fueled by trump's stolen election rhetoric and his willingness to indulge their fantasies. they were probably pretty confused when they got in there and didn't receive any support or further instructions from him, which is why they gave up. probably even more confused now that he's disavowing them, especially since he's had ample time to do so earlier in his term and did the opposite.

this could have gone another way fairly easily
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
The Capital has ben closed for tours since March:

"The Capitol Visitor Center is closed for tours. All tours are cancelled. We regret any inconvenience this may cause you, and we look forward to welcoming you to the Capitol Visitor Center at a future date." - https://www.visitthecapitol.gov/plan...0future%20date.
Thye actually are giving tours now..for the National Guardsmen on duty therir. CNN showed footage of a Tour Guide giving the soldiers the standard tour .
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:22 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I think Trump had them convinced the authorities were on their side and they would be allowed to sweep straight into the chamber to 'detain' Pence, Pelosi, et al.

As much as I despise Trump, I doubt he would tell them that in so many words.
But that was a bit item on the Qanon conspiracy sites.
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:23 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It's her alright. Lock her up.

Also, she has no conscience. Just fear.
I see Boebart does not like getting a taste of her own medicine.
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:50 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
What a bonding experience! I can just hear them sharing this with the grandkids by the fireside in a few years...10 to 15 with good behavior.
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Old 15th January 2021, 02:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As much as I despise Trump, I doubt he would tell them that in so many words.
But that was a bit item on the Qanon conspiracy sites.
He told them that he would join them.
As far as they knew, he might have been close behind with a complete Secret Service detail.
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:04 PM   #33
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I see Boebart does not like getting a taste of her own medicine.
Well Lauren, welcome to the world that Democrats live in

- Being the target of hate and misinformation because of your beliefs
- Having lies told about you and about what you say
- Having your life repeatedly threatened
- Having your family repeatedly threatened

Not a lot of fun is it Lauren?
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- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:05 PM   #34
slyjoe
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I see Boebart does not like getting a taste of her own medicine.
The best part was the reply to her. The congressman never used her name. She outed herself.
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:07 PM   #35
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
Typical Trump's administration omniincompetence.
I've been turning the question over and over in my head, and the only thing that makes sense to me is that it was never deigned to succeed, much like his candidacy in 2016 was supposed to fail at the polls but garner a ton of publicity for a "Trump Network" propaganda broadcaster. Then the insurrection succeeded beyond their wildest dreams and they didn't know how to follow through on it.
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:13 PM   #36
ChristianProgressive
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Thye actually are giving tours now..for the National Guardsmen on duty therir. CNN showed footage of a Tour Guide giving the soldiers the standard tour .
which LITERALLY could be considered reconnaisance...
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Old 15th January 2021, 03:42 PM   #37
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Thye actually are giving tours now..for the National Guardsmen on duty therir. CNN showed footage of a Tour Guide giving the soldiers the standard tour .
In the military this is known as a "briefing"
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I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 15th January 2021 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 15th January 2021, 04:34 PM   #38
Mader Levap
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Thye actually are giving tours now..for the National Guardsmen on duty therir. CNN showed footage of a Tour Guide giving the soldiers the standard tour.
Well, I assume those are legitimate and for good reason, unlike previous ones conducted for random (well, not random, but you know what I mean) civilians where some of them were seen later during Capitol riot.
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Old 15th January 2021, 04:40 PM   #39
smartcooky
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Sorry if you don't like watching videos - but to summarize this

The acting US Attorney for DC, Michael Sherwin has said

- 175 criminal investigations have been opened, expected to rise to about 300
- 98 criminal charges filed.
- Some arrestees are co-operating.
- FBI have been deluged with tips, receiving over 140,000 photos and videos just this week.
- Even friends and family members of those involved have been phoning in tips.
- there are "breadcrumbs" indicating possible co-ordination of the insurrection from people inside the Capitol building

and much more.

https://www.msnbc.com/mtp-daily/watc...ay-99533893971
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I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 15th January 2021 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 15th January 2021, 04:44 PM   #40
dudalb
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
which LITERALLY could be considered reconnaisance...
That is just plain ignorant on many levels.
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