[Merged] Wall Street Bets subreddit / Too late to buy Gamestop stock? - Page 6

JoeMorgue · 28th January 2021, 01:50 PM

"Invisible hand of the market is looking pretty visible today" - Seen on the intertubes

marting · 28th January 2021, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Well Betting on Zero is a documentary on a wallstreet mogul trying to destroy a company with a short position on it.

Of course the company is a pyramid scheme so it makes it even more questionable who is the bad guy there.

Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements.

JoeMorgue · 28th January 2021, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by marting

Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements.

Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value.

You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them.

theprestige · 28th January 2021, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

"Why don't the poor invest their money"?
"OK"
"Wait stop, not like that"

"... How do you think I got to be poor in the first place?"

marting · 28th January 2021, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value.

You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them.

Exactly. Watching Gamestop's action and the impact on hedge funds is quite entertaining. That's much of the thrill. And the upside from an overly shorted stock spiking is an opportunity. But in the long run value will out. Timing is everything and most likely there will be a lot of losers.

But none of this directly impacts Gamestop's viability as a company nor it's quarterly/annual financials in it's SEC filings.

catsmate · 28th January 2021, 02:16 PM

Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.

a_unique_person · 28th January 2021, 03:50 PM

Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds.

eerok · 28th January 2021, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds.

They say buy low and sell high, so go for dachshund and hope it gets legs.

Captain_Swoop · 28th January 2021, 04:27 PM

A share of GameStop stock is currently valued at $344, which means they would buy it from you for $12.

Checkmite · 28th January 2021, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.

Exactly.

A pump-and-dump isn't going to save GameStop; it's business is no longer viable. That's why it was targeted by the short-sellers in the first place.

The pump-and-dump WILL give GameStop's execs a nice consolation prize, though.

theprestige · 28th January 2021, 05:00 PM

Maybe they deserve a nice consolation prize, though. They had a good run. In spite of the double whammy of global-scale mail order, and the rise of streaming/downloadable content, they managed to last a lot longer than Hollywood Video and Blockbuster.

Checkmite · 28th January 2021, 05:05 PM

That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California.

TragicMonkey · 28th January 2021, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California.

They can die in fire for undervaluing upon trade-in my PS1 copy of Vandal Hearts in 1999.

p0lka · 28th January 2021, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

I just got off the phone with my son, who is not taking classes this semester and so is basically an idle bum, but was following WallStreadBets on reddit before this thing took off.

It's pretty amazing stuff going on. It will take some time to figure it out, but there are at least thousands, and possibly hundreds of thousands, just like him, how are buying one and two shares at a time, making, or losing, thousands of dollars individually.

Meanwhile, the "big players", who are trading millions and billions of dollars in this stock at the same time, are going nuts as they are tossed around on the ocean of hundreds of thousands of penny ante investors.

buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme.
some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy.

p0lka · 28th January 2021, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Short selling doesn't make the bankruptcy come any faster.

It does if the short sellers actively work to diss the company.

Cain · 28th January 2021, 06:04 PM

I'm trying to understand how this works. Here's an analogy I'm basing off something I saw on Twitter.

Jerry has an original painting from an artist named Roy that's valued at $1,000, but who is to say what's it's really worth?

Kramer-Newman believe Roy's work is wildly over-valued. They believe Roy turns out paintings like a factory, so his pieces are certain to go down in price. Kramer-Newman rent the painting from Jerry with the intention of selling it for $950. When the painting inevitably drops in value, they'll buy it back -- maybe for as little as $100 -- and return it to Jerry.

They find a sucker named George who plops down the $950 bucks. Later that day, Roy chokes to death on Junior Mints, and all of his paintings rocket up in value. George has the best luck! Now Kramer-Newman will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to buy back the painting and return it to Jerry.

Accepting that unique works of art are not quite like fungible shares, are these cases analogous in important respects?

I'm curious about the relationship here between the original lender and the speculators. I understand the owner is happy to rent(?) out his shares to make money, but what are the typical terms in the contract? Are the shares borrowed for a specified period of time? Can Jerry demand his painting back at any time?

ChrisBFRPKY · 28th January 2021, 07:11 PM

Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts!

Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood.

Was a phone call made?

Meadmaker · 28th January 2021, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by p0lka

buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme.
some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy.

From what I've read, and at this point I am treating even mainstream news sources as rumor because things are moving so fast, Robinhood was a major source of the buying activity, and the parent company (or at least a substantial investor?) had a big stake in the Melvin fund that had a huge short interest in GameStop. So, Robinhood shut down trading to try and help out the hedge fund.

That really does sound dodgy. "Hi. I'm just a stockbroker, and not the old style that gives advice, just an app that connects trades, but my important client will lose money if you keep buying this stock, so I'm not going to let you do that anymore."

Sounds dodgy. There will be plenty of room for investigations after the dust settles.

psionl0 · 28th January 2021, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Almost assuredly yes. Late comers to get rich schemes, historically speaking, are the ones most likely to get fleeced.

I'd have to agree. This isn't bitcoin.

theprestige · 28th January 2021, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by catsmate

Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.

You think they instigated the movement in that subreddit?

dudalb · 28th January 2021, 09:15 PM

The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l
I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about.
Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short.

dudalb · 28th January 2021, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts!

Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood.

Was a phone call made?

You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see.

And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed.
You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity.

dudalb · 28th January 2021, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Long-term, the stock is likely to be a dog. This was probably a good year for them; with everybody stuck at home I'd suspect used game sales were up nicely. But games are rapidly shifting to the download model, which means the product is going to disappear. Plus they are getting a lot of competition from the mini-consoles that have come out over the last few years.

'

Download has been the main distribution format for games for many years now. Used games are a dead market (except for older games) because of DRM.

dudalb · 28th January 2021, 09:24 PM

I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th January 2021, 09:42 PM

Gamestop, pshaw, so last week.

AMC and American Airlines are where the money is.

rdaneel · 28th January 2021, 09:42 PM

Just saw this quote from Stephen Colbert.

Quote:

Aw, that's terrible. Those poor hedge fund managers. Now might be a good time to invest in whoever manufactures the world's tiniest violins.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th January 2021, 09:50 PM

Quick, sell your Gamestop and buy AMC and American Airlines.

ChrisBFRPKY · 28th January 2021, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see.

And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed.
You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity.

When or if I choose to badmouth Biden, you'll know it.

I think you'll find the hedge funds ultimately failed, not the "yahoos". There's a class action against Robinhood.

I love the free market. That's why I've been loading up on Bitcoin since it was $300 bucks a pop.

Stupidity is a personal view I suppose. Although I wouldn't be so careless as to tag an entire group of people with a label. People might think I was a bigot.

Good piece about Robinhood by Chris Cuomo on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fs_lyGn4YA

Checkmite · 28th January 2021, 11:22 PM

I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.

I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so.

As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity.

llwyd · 29th January 2021, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it.

Well, but if this demonstrates how corrupt the market fundamentally is with different rules for the curse that are the hedge funds, then should we not applaude these Reddit people? And were they inept if they were stopped by gaming the rules by the elites? Or should they have guessed how fixed the game is?

timhau · 29th January 2021, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

Yes. From their mission page:

Quote:

Robinhood’s mission is to democratize finance for all. We believe that everyone should have access to the financial markets, so we’ve built Robinhood from the ground up to make investing friendly, approachable, and understandable for newcomers and experts alike.

yanking the ability to trade on this stock, seemingly for the benefit of elite brokers, is an unforgivable sin. I imagine most people will look elsewhere for service in the future.

Let me just add that for someone who bought his first shares in the early 1990s, this "democratization of finance" is just hogwash. We've already accomplished that. OK, I can't do HFT from my laptop and there are lots of derivatives contracts that aren't available to anyone who doesn't have a billion in collateral, but for all the practical purposes that make sense, I'm now as close to an equal footing with the pros as I can. Consider:

I can get realtime quotes from any market. I don't have to wait until getting my hands on tomorrow's paper to know how my stocks are doing.
I can do real-time trades. I don't have to call my broker on the phone or go to the bank and fill a form with a pen.
Buying or selling is seriously cheap. If I buy shares with €500, I don't have to wait for them to go up 5% just to break even.
When a company issues a profit warning, publishes a quarterly report or gives out any information of note, it's available to me instantly. I may not be available to read it, but that's not the market's fault.
OK, I probably can't invest directly in the Vietnamese, Pakistani or Kenyan markets, but still the markets available to me as a private investor far outstrip the number of markets I can keep track of.

And yeah, I don't have to take share certificates out of my safety deposit box and go to the bank counter with a coupon to receive dividend payments either.

This was all pretty much accomplished by the time the dot.com bubble burst.

ChrisBFRPKY · 29th January 2021, 01:52 AM

Doge

.01 to .05 in the past 24 hours

timhau · 29th January 2021, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.

I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so.

As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity.

Having been a participant in a couple of Finnish-language online investment groups, I'm not the least bit surprised by this. I've met some bright people there too, but it seems like the issue of money combined with the complexity of the market attracts a lot of kooks. Add to this the fact that when investing in stocks becomes fashionable, you shouldn't be buying but already owning or maybe even selling, and the situation is ripe for conspiracy-minded folks to be absolutely certain that someone - or (((someone))) - is ripping them off when they don't get rich quick or at all.

rjh01 · 29th January 2021, 03:32 AM

How to make a lot of money fast.
1. Buy a lot of stock in a small company.
2. Go to Reddit and persuade people (suckers) to buy that stock for LOLs.
3. When the price shoots up, sell your stock for a massive profit.

The price of the stock will go down, but it will be the suckers on Reddit who will lose their money.

Wildy · 29th January 2021, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l
I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about.
Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short.

Not necessarily. Since the shares are currently over shorted buying and holding can be a pretty good strategy to make money. The idea that SWB is using is somewhat similar to what Porsche did with VW shares back in 2008, or what Martin Shkreli would do in 2015 with KaloBios shares. If enough shares are locked up, or you control enough shares, then when the short sellers have to hedge their losses the price starts to increase because there aren't enough shares in circulation to cover the shorts.

That's what the WSB people are trying to do. Buy up Gamestock shares and then refuse to lend them out causing the price to rise as the short sellers have fewer shares to buy back to cover their failed bet.

TragicMonkey · 29th January 2021, 05:56 AM

It's like every week has to have a weird crisis controversy. I wonder what next week's will be? I'm guessing animal attacks in a surprising place, or a celebrity going on a crime spree.

JoeMorgue · 29th January 2021, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing.

Oh noes not Jewish conspiracies related to financial control. That would be the first time that had ever happened.

TragicMonkey · 29th January 2021, 06:49 AM

Heh. I got an email from Charles Schwab urging "caution" in "these unprecedented events". Managed to never actually mention Gamestop or Reddit or anything specific. No doubt they were worried that they might actually be informing customers who hadn't known about a bubble who would then rush to join in.

JoeMorgue · 29th January 2021, 06:55 AM

I'm amazed at how well the media and financial institution have jumped in to respond to what, I'm assuming, is the first ever case of reckless trading in the history of the United States Economy.

It's a good thing I don't live in a world where the Wall Street Inner Circle has been playing this same game with much bigger stakes for decades with at best the implicit silence and at worst the open support of the same antics.

It's a good thing I don't live in that world.

Arcade22 · 29th January 2021, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

This is lie. It can contribute to it.

Gamestop was a profit making machine with strong quarterly profits and growth trends before the big bad shorters came along and ruined it's reputation.

28th January 2021, 01:50 PM	#201
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,554	"Invisible hand of the market is looking pretty visible today" - Seen on the intertubes
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

28th January 2021, 01:56 PM	#202
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,257	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Well Betting on Zero is a documentary on a wallstreet mogul trying to destroy a company with a short position on it. Of course the company is a pyramid scheme so it makes it even more questionable who is the bad guy there. Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,257	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool.

28th January 2021, 02:00 PM	#203
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 31,554	Originally Posted by marting Shorts expect to make money betting that a company is overvalued. Often by publicizing what they believe is wrong with the company after taking a short position. Truthful facts about a company shouldn't be a problem for a company. If it is then what hurts/kills the company are the facts the short elucidates, not the mechanics and price of the stock which doesn't affect the company's balance sheet/income statements. Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value. You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

28th January 2021, 02:10 PM	#205
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,257	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Reddit hasn't lied about Gamestop's business value. You don't get to sue the team that won because you bet against them. Exactly. Watching Gamestop's action and the impact on hedge funds is quite entertaining. That's much of the thrill. And the upside from an overly shorted stock spiking is an opportunity. But in the long run value will out. Timing is everything and most likely there will be a lot of losers. But none of this directly impacts Gamestop's viability as a company nor it's quarterly/annual financials in it's SEC filings.
marting Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,257	__________________ Flying's easy. Walking on water, now that's cool. Last edited by marting; 28th January 2021 at 02:19 PM.

28th January 2021, 02:16 PM	#206
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 24,335	Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

28th January 2021, 02:01 PM	#204
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,627	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop "Why don't the poor invest their money"? "OK" "Wait stop, not like that" "... How do you think I got to be poor in the first place?"

28th January 2021, 03:50 PM	#207
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 43,081	Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

28th January 2021, 03:55 PM	#208
eerok Quixoticist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: ON Canada Posts: 3,695	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Are you going for short dogs or long dogs? My friends are telling me to buy dachshunds. They say buy low and sell high, so go for dachshund and hope it gets legs.
	__________________ "Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde

28th January 2021, 04:27 PM	#209
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 32,741	A share of GameStop stock is currently valued at $344, which means they would buy it from you for $12.

28th January 2021, 04:56 PM	#210
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,544	Originally Posted by catsmate Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation. Exactly. A pump-and-dump isn't going to save GameStop; it's business is no longer viable. That's why it was targeted by the short-sellers in the first place. The pump-and-dump WILL give GameStop's execs a nice consolation prize, though.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

28th January 2021, 05:00 PM	#211
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,627	Maybe they deserve a nice consolation prize, though. They had a good run. In spite of the double whammy of global-scale mail order, and the rise of streaming/downloadable content, they managed to last a lot longer than Hollywood Video and Blockbuster.

28th January 2021, 05:05 PM	#212
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,544	That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

28th January 2021, 05:09 PM	#213
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,742	Originally Posted by Checkmite That will be a matter of personal opinion. I have an ethics problem with GameStop on account of a certain abusive policy toward its employees, and for the company's COVID lockdown shenanigans in California. They can die in fire for undervaluing upon trade-in my PS1 copy of Vandal Hearts in 1999.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

28th January 2021, 05:15 PM	#214
p0lka Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 2,266	Originally Posted by Meadmaker I just got off the phone with my son, who is not taking classes this semester and so is basically an idle bum, but was following WallStreadBets on reddit before this thing took off. It's pretty amazing stuff going on. It will take some time to figure it out, but there are at least thousands, and possibly hundreds of thousands, just like him, how are buying one and two shares at a time, making, or losing, thousands of dollars individually. Meanwhile, the "big players", who are trading millions and billions of dollars in this stock at the same time, are going nuts as they are tossed around on the ocean of hundreds of thousands of penny ante investors. buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme. some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy.

28th January 2021, 05:18 PM	#215
p0lka Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: near trees, houses and a lake. Posts: 2,266	Originally Posted by lomiller Short selling doesn't make the bankruptcy come any faster. It does if the short sellers actively work to diss the company.

28th January 2021, 06:04 PM	#216
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,302	I'm trying to understand how this works. Here's an analogy I'm basing off something I saw on Twitter. Jerry has an original painting from an artist named Roy that's valued at $1,000, but who is to say what's it's really worth? Kramer-Newman believe Roy's work is wildly over-valued. They believe Roy turns out paintings like a factory, so his pieces are certain to go down in price. Kramer-Newman rent the painting from Jerry with the intention of selling it for $950. When the painting inevitably drops in value, they'll buy it back -- maybe for as little as $100 -- and return it to Jerry. They find a sucker named George who plops down the $950 bucks. Later that day, Roy chokes to death on Junior Mints, and all of his paintings rocket up in value. George has the best luck! Now Kramer-Newman will have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to buy back the painting and return it to Jerry. Accepting that unique works of art are not quite like fungible shares, are these cases analogous in important respects? I'm curious about the relationship here between the original lender and the speculators. I understand the owner is happy to rent(?) out his shares to make money, but what are the typical terms in the contract? Are the shares borrowed for a specified period of time? Can Jerry demand his painting back at any time?
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

28th January 2021, 07:11 PM	#217
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts! Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood. Was a phone call made?
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692

28th January 2021, 07:19 PM	#218
Meadmaker Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,531	Originally Posted by p0lka buy the dips seems to be a recurring theme. some citadel based brokers have stopped that though, dodgy. From what I've read, and at this point I am treating even mainstream news sources as rumor because things are moving so fast, Robinhood was a major source of the buying activity, and the parent company (or at least a substantial investor?) had a big stake in the Melvin fund that had a huge short interest in GameStop. So, Robinhood shut down trading to try and help out the hedge fund. That really does sound dodgy. "Hi. I'm just a stockbroker, and not the old style that gives advice, just an app that connects trades, but my important client will lose money if you keep buying this stock, so I'm not going to let you do that anymore." Sounds dodgy. There will be plenty of room for investigations after the dust settles.
	__________________ Yes, yes. I know you are right. But would it hurt you to provide some information?

28th January 2021, 07:23 PM	#219
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,169	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Almost assuredly yes. Late comers to get rich schemes, historically speaking, are the ones most likely to get fleeced. I'd have to agree. This isn't bitcoin.
	__________________ "The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975

28th January 2021, 08:05 PM	#220
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 50,627	Originally Posted by catsmate Hmm, as I said elsewhere I'm dubious about this supposed "grassroots" movement , especially given who is actually set to profit from the share price inflation. You think they instigated the movement in that subreddit?

28th January 2021, 09:15 PM	#221
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,558	The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about. Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

28th January 2021, 09:17 PM	#222
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,558	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Hilarious! Hedge funds losing billions on shorts! Interesting that the Robinhood app stopped members from purchasing until the hedge funds got out of Gamestop. Something a wee bit disturbing there...I'm reading that Janet Yellen received over $800K in speaking fees from Citadel, owner of Robinhood. Was a phone call made? You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see. And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed. You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

28th January 2021, 09:21 PM	#223
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,558	Originally Posted by Brainster Long-term, the stock is likely to be a dog. This was probably a good year for them; with everybody stuck at home I'd suspect used game sales were up nicely. But games are rapidly shifting to the download model, which means the product is going to disappear. Plus they are getting a lot of competition from the mini-consoles that have come out over the last few years. ' Download has been the main distribution format for games for many years now. Used games are a dead market (except for older games) because of DRM.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

28th January 2021, 09:24 PM	#224
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,558	I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

28th January 2021, 09:42 PM	#225
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,858	Gamestop, pshaw, so last week. AMC and American Airlines are where the money is.

28th January 2021, 09:42 PM	#226
rdaneel Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: I'M IN THE PHONEBOOK! I'M SOMEBODY!!! Posts: 4,311	Just saw this quote from Stephen Colbert. Quote: Aw, that's terrible. Those poor hedge fund managers. Now might be a good time to invest in whoever manufactures the world's tiniest violins.
	__________________ "Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor "I heard some things I can't prove from someone I don't know, and God dammit, that's enough for me." - Penny Arcade "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from Science!" - Agatha Heterodyne

28th January 2021, 09:50 PM	#227
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 87,858	Quick, sell your Gamestop and buy AMC and American Airlines.

28th January 2021, 09:52 PM	#228
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Originally Posted by dudalb You managed to find a way to badmouth Biden over this, I see. And making heros out of a bunch of yahoos who tried to beat the pros at the game of selling short, and failed. You are like many right wingers;claim to love the free market but not understanding how it operates;Hint:it usually does not like stupidity. When or if I choose to badmouth Biden, you'll know it. I think you'll find the hedge funds ultimately failed, not the "yahoos". There's a class action against Robinhood. I love the free market. That's why I've been loading up on Bitcoin since it was $300 bucks a pop. Stupidity is a personal view I suppose. Although I wouldn't be so careless as to tag an entire group of people with a label. People might think I was a bigot. Good piece about Robinhood by Chris Cuomo on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fs_lyGn4YA
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 28th January 2021 at 10:27 PM. Reason: added info

28th January 2021, 11:22 PM	#229
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 26,544	I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing. I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so. As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002 Last edited by Agatha; 29th January 2021 at 12:22 PM.

29th January 2021, 12:41 AM	#230
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 762	Originally Posted by dudalb I hatt Hedge Companies, but the atttempts to portray the Reddit mob as some kind of heroic people's resistence is just plain idiotic. They were trying to make money by selling short just the same as the Hedge funds,but they were inept at it. Well, but if this demonstrates how corrupt the market fundamentally is with different rules for the curse that are the hedge funds, then should we not applaude these Reddit people? And were they inept if they were stopped by gaming the rules by the elites? Or should they have guessed how fixed the game is?
llwyd Muse Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 762

29th January 2021, 01:52 AM	#231
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,513	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey Yes. From their mission page: Quote: Robinhood’s mission is to democratize finance for all. We believe that everyone should have access to the financial markets, so we’ve built Robinhood from the ground up to make investing friendly, approachable, and understandable for newcomers and experts alike. yanking the ability to trade on this stock, seemingly for the benefit of elite brokers, is an unforgivable sin. I imagine most people will look elsewhere for service in the future. Let me just add that for someone who bought his first shares in the early 1990s, this "democratization of finance" is just hogwash. We've already accomplished that. OK, I can't do HFT from my laptop and there are lots of derivatives contracts that aren't available to anyone who doesn't have a billion in collateral, but for all the practical purposes that make sense, I'm now as close to an equal footing with the pros as I can. Consider: I can get realtime quotes from any market. I don't have to wait until getting my hands on tomorrow's paper to know how my stocks are doing. I can do real-time trades. I don't have to call my broker on the phone or go to the bank and fill a form with a pen. Buying or selling is seriously cheap. If I buy shares with €500, I don't have to wait for them to go up 5% just to break even. When a company issues a profit warning, publishes a quarterly report or gives out any information of note, it's available to me instantly. I may not be available to read it, but that's not the market's fault. OK, I probably can't invest directly in the Vietnamese, Pakistani or Kenyan markets, but still the markets available to me as a private investor far outstrip the number of markets I can keep track of. And yeah, I don't have to take share certificates out of my safety deposit box and go to the bank counter with a coupon to receive dividend payments either. This was all pretty much accomplished by the time the dot.com bubble burst.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

29th January 2021, 01:52 AM	#232
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Doge .01 to .05 in the past 24 hours
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,692	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 29th January 2021 at 01:56 AM. Reason: added info

29th January 2021, 03:13 AM	#233
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 14,513	Originally Posted by Checkmite I've seen some serious antisemitic messages connected with this thing. I don't know whether they constitute the chicken or the egg in terms of this particular action; but there's a lot of people who apparently equate hedge fund traders losing money with "Jews" losing money, and they are quite pleased with what's going on and are saying so. As a supporting argument to this, it should be noted that Discord has said that it banned the WSB channel due to hate speech and misinformation, not anything to do with trading or this recent activity. Having been a participant in a couple of Finnish-language online investment groups, I'm not the least bit surprised by this. I've met some bright people there too, but it seems like the issue of money combined with the complexity of the market attracts a lot of kooks. Add to this the fact that when investing in stocks becomes fashionable, you shouldn't be buying but already owning or maybe even selling, and the situation is ripe for conspiracy-minded folks to be absolutely certain that someone - or (((someone))) - is ripping them off when they don't get rich quick or at all.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

29th January 2021, 03:32 AM	#234
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,629	How to make a lot of money fast. 1. Buy a lot of stock in a small company. 2. Go to Reddit and persuade people (suckers) to buy that stock for LOLs. 3. When the price shoots up, sell your stock for a massive profit. The price of the stock will go down, but it will be the suckers on Reddit who will lose their money.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.

29th January 2021, 03:35 AM	#235
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 11,034	Originally Posted by dudalb The trick to making money by selling short is timing, which is very tricky.l I don't have much sympathy for either side here. I dislike the big hedge funds, but have no respect for the yahoos on Reddit who were trying to play a game they knew nothing about. Noboey would buy such crappy stocks like Gamespot or AMC unless they were planning on selling short. Not necessarily. Since the shares are currently over shorted buying and holding can be a pretty good strategy to make money. The idea that SWB is using is somewhat similar to what Porsche did with VW shares back in 2008, or what Martin Shkreli would do in 2015 with KaloBios shares. If enough shares are locked up, or you control enough shares, then when the short sellers have to hedge their losses the price starts to increase because there aren't enough shares in circulation to cover the shorts. That's what the WSB people are trying to do. Buy up Gamestock shares and then refuse to lend them out causing the price to rise as the short sellers have fewer shares to buy back to cover their failed bet.
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