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Old 10th February 2021, 09:45 AM   #81
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Seeing as how my office is virtual and doesn't have a physical location they own and all my work is done at client sites, I'd say fairly goddamn low.
That seems pithy when removed from context of my entire response to your post implying that you had an office. Still, the logic applies to client sites and other locations. When they figure out how make money by catering to EV users there will be more chargers.


Quote:
Yeah I could do that. Or I could go to one of the gas stations that is damn near literally on every corner and fill up in 2 minutes with enough to last me the entire week and not worry about it again
Every week. Of every month. Of every year. Versus a one off that may happen once every couple of years assuming you have a fairly regular schedule and driving habits. Sound good. I just hate gas stations and everything about them. [Insert Mr. Smith monologue to Morpheus but substitute gas stations for humanity.]
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:49 AM   #82
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I don't see a problem with piecemeal charging. As long as you get the charge and get home, what's the beef?

Back in the day when gas was cheap and my wallet thin, I habitually bought little bits of gas at a time because I only had a couple of bucks and was always in a hurry. Later, I've often bought little bits of gas because every good swamp yankee knows it's a sin to abandon a car with a full tank.

If you can keep your electric car charged enough to keep going, it makes sense to do it in the shortest, most convenient way possible. Unless there's some hidden cost to making the connection, you might as well plug it in whenever there's a chance. A watt is a watt.

Still not likely to be happening right here, as the combination of limited charging, vehicle cost, and the probable need to upgrade my electrical circuit, combined with the long cold dark winters here, makes the prospect less attractive than a little gas econobox with snow tires. But things change, and I wouldn't write the possibility off.
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:49 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
That seems pithy when removed from context of my entire response to your post implying that you had an office. Still, the logic applies to client sites and other locations. When they figure out how make money by catering to EV users there will be more chargers.
Yeah. That's why I'll buy a fully electric car then, not now.


Quote:
Every week. Of every month. Of every year. Versus a one off that may happen once every couple of years assuming you have a fairly regular schedule and driving habits. Sound good.
Ah yeah. Compared to "Well I just hummingbird from charging point to charging point" it sounds great.
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:50 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And again I'm not downing electric vehicles. My next car almost certainly will be one (probably a plug in hybrid or range extended electric car, I don't think I can viably go 100% electric just yet)

I just realize they are only viable for people in dense urban areas and "LOL just refuel at your friendly neighborhood local RV park" is insane.
I live in a suburban area and will be moving to a small town soon and in both places they would be perfectly viable. "Dense Urban Area" is a red herring. Besides, most people live in suburban areas or more dense.

That EV users have found RV parks as viable alternatives to charging stations in a pinch is not insane, it is a perfectly reasonable counter to "Oh my god! I can't find electrons anywhere outside of downtown metropolis!"
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:52 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't see a problem with piecemeal charging. As long as you get the charge and get home, what's the beef?
It's great if you are always in complete control of your schedule and never have to be anywhere right now.

I can't wait on a trouble call while my car takes 30 minutes to add enough miles to get to their site.
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:53 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah. That's why I'll buy a fully electric car then, not now.
Cool, cool, cool.

Quote:
Ah yeah. Compared to "Well I just hummingbird from charging point to charging point" it sounds great.
Ah yeah, humming-birding on the rare occasion that charging at home isn't enough is preferable to me. Not to you. Understood.
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Old 10th February 2021, 09:58 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No every valid point is just naysaying.

It's the same problem with the bike cultist, they refuse to believe that anyone's vehicular needs are ever different from theirs and they always have some insane way to get around inherent downsides, even temporary ones, with their favorite mode of transport.
Good example, really. Over the last decade, electrically powered bikes have given a speed and range to ordinary moderately fit people, that used to be only for athletes. If you told a lot of those people they could be biking to work back 10-15 years ago, they would say it was too long, too time-consuming, they would show up sweaty, etc.

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Old 10th February 2021, 10:09 AM   #88
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I have the comparative luxury of a free car park at work. In recent years there's been political pressure around the idea of pushing commuters out of their cars and onto public transport by making employers pay tax on car park provision and perhaps charge their employees a parking fee.

The idea that I and colleagues might persuade my employer to pay to install and maintain charging points so we can charge our cars with their electricity seems far-fetched.
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Old 10th February 2021, 12:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's great if you are always in complete control of your schedule and never have to be anywhere right now.

I can't wait on a trouble call while my car takes 30 minutes to add enough miles to get to their site.
Of course, if you're too short of either charge or time, either you're in the wrong car or you're not managing it right.

My point, however, was addressing the question of whether it's worthwhile or reasonable in general to use many little charges or one big one. As long as you maintain enough charge to go where you need to go in the time you have to do it in, I would suggest there's nothing inherently wrong with getting what you can where you can, rather than worrying, as so many people do about so many things, about getting all or nothing. The more you can split time with things you're doing anyway, like shopping, the less time you must spend on charging alone.

Right now, it's likely not so practical in many places. Eventually, I suspect, it will be. If you can plug in wherever you park, it doesn't matter then if you park for hours or minutes. A watt is a watt.
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Old 10th February 2021, 12:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I have the comparative luxury of a free car park at work. In recent years there's been political pressure around the idea of pushing commuters out of their cars and onto public transport by making employers pay tax on car park provision and perhaps charge their employees a parking fee.

The idea that I and colleagues might persuade my employer to pay to install and maintain charging points so we can charge our cars with their electricity seems far-fetched.
Would your employer be interested if that pressure you mentioned in your first paragraph went away by simply allowing a third party to install some pay per use charging stations in their already existing parking structure?
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Old 10th February 2021, 12:17 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Of course, if you're too short of either charge or time, either you're in the wrong car or you're not managing it right.
*********. Right now outside of Tesla and the Chevy Bolt fully electric cars have a range of less than 200 miles.

Let's say I buy a Nissan Leaf, which looks to be the cheapest fully electric car you can get right now. It has an ideal range of 150 miles.

I can kill 150 miles before lunch driving from site to site performing trouble calls. It's not super common but it's not a rare occurrence I can just not account for. And then I have to find a place to charge it. And it's not like just filling a tank, it takes time.

The whole "Oh I'm sorry boss I can't work because I'm waiting on my car to charge" is not some insane rare scenario I'm making up.
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Old 10th February 2021, 12:41 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
A Nissan Leaf. It was 8 years old when I bought it 2 years ago, and cost $6500 (so actually a lot less than half $17k). It had just under 38,000 miles on it when I bought it, which was actually quite high for a Leaf of that age.



My Leaf only gets 60 miles on a full charge, but the longest round trip I do is only 30 miles (which I might do once a month), so it's plenty.

Normally I only put in enough to do round-town driving because keeping it under half charge lessens battery degradation. If I think I might need to take a long trip I put it on charge overnight, and next morning it's ready to go. If I need to visit someone I insist that they allow me to 'top up' while I am there, and if I don't have enough charge to get there they have to wait.

I don't do a lot of miles, but I do drive almost every day. Compared to my old car the Leaf is a joy to drive, and something I look forward to. So it would be worth it for me even if I didn't save money, which I do because electricity is half the cost of gas here.

Another thing to consider is that maintenance costs are much lower. No oil changes, no timing belts to replace, brake pads last forever, tires wear less. The motor never needs to be tuned up or cleaned and there is no exhaust system to rust through, no catalytic converter to gum up etc. The smooth running electric drive system doesn't shake the car to bits or cover it with grime, so my 8 year old car was like brand new and should stay that way if I look after it.

I planned to do that too, then I needed to get a few parts replaced and the bill was $1000 so I decided not to wait for a 'major issue'. Just as well I did too, because it turned out the transmission was almost shot.
I'd be a little bit worried about battery replacement, Nissan charges more for a new battery than you paid for your car. Still if you only drive 3k miles a year you may indeed outlive the car.

For me, I need a hatchback or SUV. Need room for two medium sized dogs. And I need at least 200 miles roundtrip range. Every now and again I get out in the boonies of New Mexico. Right now it looks like the only EV's that suit me are made by Tesla (way too much $), or one model by Hyundai (Kona EV) which starts at $38,000. BTW I currently have a Hyundai Santa Fe. Great vehicle and a brand I'd stick with for an EV in a heartbeat if it was more affordable, or perhaps a used one.

Anyways, it looks to me like there are now affordable EV's that suit some driver's needs, and expensive ones that would suit the vast majority of drivers. Thats a long ways from where things were even a decade ago.

ETA: oh I guess Nissan Leafs are offered as hatchbacks.

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Old 10th February 2021, 12:42 PM   #93
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Washington State is considering switching to nearly all EV cars/trucks <10,000 pounds gross weight by 2030. Vehicles of model year 2030 and later will have to be EV's

Public and private vehicles used by police, fire departments and some others are exempt of course. http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/bienni...20210210114626

I don't think it will pass when it exempts emergency services vehicles which would probably include public and privately owned cars belonging to the police, firefighters and some others.

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Old 10th February 2021, 12:43 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Pretty much. Mechanical brakes are only used when braking hard, coming to a complete stop or when the battery is fully charged and can't take any more (another reason to not not charge fully, especially if you start off going downhill!).

According to Elon Musk, the brake pads on a Tesla literally never need to be replaced for the lifetime of the car. In reality some Tesla owners have reported over 200,000 miles on original brake pads. That's effectively forever for someone like me who does less than 3000 miles per year.
I have 130,000 miles on the original brake pads of by Prius C. Thought it is mostly highway driving.
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Old 10th February 2021, 12:44 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
A Nissan Leaf. It was 8 years old when I bought it 2 years ago, and cost $6500 (so actually a lot less than half $17k). It had just under 38,000 miles on it when I bought it, which was actually quite high for a Leaf of that age.
I heard that due to the lack of a battery coolant system, Nissan recommends not using a DC supercharger. Is this true?
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Old 10th February 2021, 01:19 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I have the comparative luxury of a free car park at work. In recent years there's been political pressure around the idea of pushing commuters out of their cars and onto public transport by making employers pay tax on car park provision and perhaps charge their employees a parking fee.

The idea that I and colleagues might persuade my employer to pay to install and maintain charging points so we can charge our cars with their electricity seems far-fetched.
Sure. But the idea that some company running charging stations for profit might do it is not.

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Old 10th February 2021, 01:51 PM   #97
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Just wondering because I honestly do not know - If, over say the next ten years, a significant number of drivers (say 50%) switched to EV's would there be any significant effect on the power grid? Would additional power need to be generated, or is there enough power available to to handle the load with little difficulty?

Related question - would the generation of power needed to charge all those EV's be "clean" generation, or would coal/gas/cogen plant capacity need to be increased? If the capacity could be provided by solar/wind and maybe hydro that would be great.
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Old 10th February 2021, 01:51 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I heard that due to the lack of a battery coolant system, Nissan recommends not using a DC supercharger. Is this true?
The Leaf's in general have much worse thermal management than other EVs and plug-in hybrids. That makes their batteries wear out much, much faster than Telsa or GM or other common EV brands.

Leafs are affordable and reliable, but they're just not as durable as the others.
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Old 10th February 2021, 02:02 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Just wondering because I honestly do not know - If, over say the next ten years, a significant number of drivers (say 50%) switched to EV's would there be any significant effect on the power grid? Would additional power need to be generated, or is there enough power available to to handle the load with little difficulty?

Related question - would the generation of power needed to charge all those EV's be "clean" generation, or would coal/gas/cogen plant capacity need to be increased? If the capacity could be provided by solar/wind and maybe hydro that would be great.
It seems to be mixed.

Right now, demand on the power grid is highest during the daytime and lower at night. Most current EV owners charge at night, so they are using the system at a time when other demands are low. That places little to no additional stress on the system.

But.....

Many renewable power sources such as wind and (especially) solar generate more power during the day. There is a lot of wind power in Wyoming, for example, and it is typically windier during the day than at night there.

So.....

If we want to switch our power generation/collection over to wind and solar and dramatically increase the proportion of cars that are electric, then over the longer run we would want to switch to charging EVs during the day (because that's when wind/solar power is mostly generated). Get employers to install charging stations where their employees park. Charging stations in big parking lots at malls and airports and the like. A nice aspect of this is these places also make ideal places to install solar cells as shade structures. The car charges the battery off the solar system that is also protecting the car from sun and hail (I live in Colorado, which gets enormously destructive hail storms, the solar cells here weather them better than roof shingles and skylights do.)

Rooftop solar may turn out to be a big thing over the next few decades, I expect to see architects starting to include that in the basic design of all sorts of buildings, such as housing developments designed with more roof space facing south than north, arranging all the pipes and chimneys on houses so that they don't get in the way of solar cell installation, that sort of thing.

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Old 10th February 2021, 02:37 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I'd be a little bit worried about battery replacement, ...
My i3 has a 100,000 mile / 8 year warranty on the battery. If it gets below 70% of the advertised capacity, they will repair or replace it. But, my six-year old i3 with about 40K miles still has as much capacity as originally advertised.

The Leaf's battery management isn't as good, but it still likely that the battery will outlive the rest of the car and be recycled to backup a home's solar panels or whatever.
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Old 10th February 2021, 02:52 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
It seems to be mixed.

Right now, demand on the power grid is highest during the daytime and lower at night. Most current EV owners charge at night, so they are using the system at a time when other demands are low. That places little to no additional stress on the system.

But.....
Peak periods of electrical usage during the day are the main problem for power companies. They need capacity to handle the peaks, but want to avoid building new coal or natural gas plants because they are expensive to build. Solar and wind will help, but so will EVs. Newer EVs have bidirectional chargers. So, the power company can draw power from these EVs during peak periods and give it back later.

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Old 10th February 2021, 02:54 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*********. Right now outside of Tesla and the Chevy Bolt fully electric cars have a range of less than 200 miles.

Let's say I buy a Nissan Leaf, which looks to be the cheapest fully electric car you can get right now. It has an ideal range of 150 miles.

I can kill 150 miles before lunch driving from site to site performing trouble calls. It's not super common but it's not a rare occurrence I can just not account for. And then I have to find a place to charge it. And it's not like just filling a tank, it takes time.

The whole "Oh I'm sorry boss I can't work because I'm waiting on my car to charge" is not some insane rare scenario I'm making up.
Exactly. Clearly at this point an electric vehicle is the wrong car for you. For others it likely is not, and we can hope that those early adopters will make coming generations of electric cars better.

I'm not sure what you think we're arguing about.
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Old 10th February 2021, 02:55 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
No, that's not needed. It was tried back when batteries had much shorter range than now, and failed in the marketplace because nobody needed it. What's needed is faster charging in more places, and we are getting that.

The other thing needed is a change of behavior. You don't forget to charge your cell phone and expect to get a battery swap, even though until recently most phones had easily swappable batteries. We need to get out of the mentality that you must go to a gas station to 'fill up', and get into the habit of charging overnight or during planned stops on a long trip.

As battery technology improves the range is increasing and charging time is reducing. If I had the money, I could buy an electric car today that has more range than I will ever use.
I really don't see battery exchange as a viable option. I suspect just the amount of charging rack and storage space needed for a busy exchange station would make the cost prohibitive, and since you are talking about swapping batteries weighing several hundred pounds, there will be mishaps that damage cars and/or batteries. I think it would be and expensive logistical nightmare.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:23 PM   #104
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I recently heard an idea to put a false "manual transmission" including a fake stick shifter and fake clutch pedal into an electric vehicle for people who are used to driving stick shift vehicles. It's a completely unnecessary thing for an electric vehicle, but some drivers apparently don't feel comfortable changing the way they drive. They want to be able to move a stick and feel like gear ratios are changing.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:37 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I recently heard an idea to put a false "manual transmission" including a fake stick shifter and fake clutch pedal into an electric vehicle for people who are used to driving stick shift vehicles. It's a completely unnecessary thing for an electric vehicle, but some drivers apparently don't feel comfortable changing the way they drive. They want to be able to move a stick and feel like gear ratios are changing.
We 'Mercans wouldn't need that, because none of us remember how to drive stick shifts anymore*

We would need noisemakers. BIG LOUD GRUMBLEGRUMPLEGRUMBLE noisemakers. And smoke bombs. It ain't 'Mercan if it ain't loud and smoky.




*effect exaggerated for drama. I actually still have a stick shift and know how to drive it. It has been literal years now since I've driven any other stick beyond my little old pickup
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:40 PM   #106
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Just put playing cards in the spokes.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:41 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
We 'Mercans wouldn't need that, because none of us remember how to drive stick shifts anymore*

We would need noisemakers. BIG LOUD GRUMBLEGRUMPLEGRUMBLE noisemakers. And smoke bombs. It ain't 'Mercan if it ain't loud and smoky.




*effect exaggerated for drama. I actually still have a stick shift and know how to drive it. It has been literal years now since I've driven any other stick beyond my little old pickup
Yup... and many 'mericans are jackasses. I'm getting new windows in my bedroom because of the many many times I've been woken up from the jackasses street racing at midnight or 2 or 4 AM. And I wear earplugs as it is. Just an asside.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:45 PM   #108
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You're only exaggerating a little, crescent.

Ford had to replace the airbags in my car, and even the tech said, "What the...? I've never seen one of these with a manual transmission before!"
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:50 PM   #109
crescent
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Yup... and many 'mericans are jackasses. I'm getting new windows in my bedroom because of the many many times I've been woken up from the jackasses street racing at midnight or 2 or 4 AM. And I wear earplugs as it is. Just an asside.
My neighbor is being evicted - and it sucks because he's a very nice man. He never even got behind on his rent, but his lease was up and the landlord wants to sell the house. It sucks.

But a mean little part of me is happy because he has very loud smoke-filled hobbies. Harley's and drag racing, and off-roading. That house is a cacophony of revving engines and exhaust every weekend. Virtually any new neighbor is likely to be quieter.

Which does have a point in the EV issue. For many people (but certainly not me), then engine is part of the aesthetic appeal. It will be a very long time before EV make inroads into that customer base.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:52 PM   #110
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I think there were some CVTs that were programmed to act like they have stepped ratios so that people would be more comfortable. Sort of kills any efficiency gains from the CVT.

I know some EV conversions retain the gearbox in older vehicles. It is not necessary, but it does allow the driver some selection of driving "mode" in a sense. Lower gear is more jumpy, higher gear is smoother, but there is so much torque that most people just use mid to higher gears.
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Old 10th February 2021, 03:53 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
My neighbor is being evicted - and it sucks because he's a very nice man. He never even got behind on his rent, but his lease was up and the landlord wants to sell the house. It sucks.

But a mean little part of me is happy because he has very loud smoke-filled hobbies. Harley's and drag racing, and off-roading. That house is a cacophony of revving engines and exhaust every weekend. Virtually any new neighbor is likely to be quieter.

Which does have a point in the EV issue. For many people (but certainly not me), then engine is part of the aesthetic appeal. It will be a very long time before EV make inroads into that customer base.
Truth, but watching EVs smoke ICE vehicles on drag strips is a hoot.

I say this as someone whose face was sore after a day of watching historic races at Laguna Seca. The sound is so visceral, you can feel it throughout your body.
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Old 10th February 2021, 04:02 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
It seems to be mixed.

Right now, demand on the power grid is highest during the daytime and lower at night. Most current EV owners charge at night, so they are using the system at a time when other demands are low. That places little to no additional stress on the system.

But.....

Many renewable power sources such as wind and (especially) solar generate more power during the day. There is a lot of wind power in Wyoming, for example, and it is typically windier during the day than at night there.

So.....

If we want to switch our power generation/collection over to wind and solar and dramatically increase the proportion of cars that are electric, then over the longer run we would want to switch to charging EVs during the day (because that's when wind/solar power is mostly generated). Get employers to install charging stations where their employees park. Charging stations in big parking lots at malls and airports and the like. A nice aspect of this is these places also make ideal places to install solar cells as shade structures. The car charges the battery off the solar system that is also protecting the car from sun and hail (I live in Colorado, which gets enormously destructive hail storms, the solar cells here weather them better than roof shingles and skylights do.)

Rooftop solar may turn out to be a big thing over the next few decades, I expect to see architects starting to include that in the basic design of all sorts of buildings, such as housing developments designed with more roof space facing south than north, arranging all the pipes and chimneys on houses so that they don't get in the way of solar cell installation, that sort of thing.
Interesting. So in the best scenario the increase in EV's and the changes to the power grid should happen together. Guess governments are the only organizations that could realistically coordinate and make that happen. I do not have much confidence. There will be "growing pains" but I have no doubt it has to happen eventually.
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Old 10th February 2021, 04:18 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And again I'm not downing electric vehicles. My next car almost certainly will be one (probably a plug in hybrid or range extended electric car, I don't think I can viably go 100% electric just yet)

I just realize they are only viable for people in dense urban areas and "LOL just refuel at your friendly neighborhood local RV park" is insane.
An EV would be perfect for the vast suburban wasteland where I live. I have an inside garage, so I am perfectly set up for it. I fully expect that my next car will be electric. Not for a couple of years though. I love my Jazz.

Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I recently heard an idea to put a false "manual transmission" including a fake stick shifter and fake clutch pedal into an electric vehicle for people who are used to driving stick shift vehicles. It's a completely unnecessary thing for an electric vehicle, but some drivers apparently don't feel comfortable changing the way they drive. They want to be able to move a stick and feel like gear ratios are changing.
Interestingly, my Jazz, which is not hybrid or electric but does get better fuel economy than the Prius I used to drive, has a continuous variable transmission, but it still has fake gears. I can feel the gear ratio "kick down" when I hit the accelerator, as though it were a normal automatic transmission. And if I put it into sporty mode I can manually change gear ratios with the flappy paddles. I lose my great fuel economy when I do that though.
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Old 10th February 2021, 04:25 PM   #114
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As I think I've mentioned elsewhere, some areas (Vermont, for example) are better candidates for cheap solar power, because the infrastructure is so poor, and the possibility of new power plants so limited, that home generation is subsidized, in part, by the power company. It's cheaper than putting in new lines. Our main non-local source of power these days is from Hydro Quebec, which is a pretty good bargain, but requires more high tension lines.

But balancing that is the paradoxical fact that the infrastructure is so near capacity that larger solar installations cannot be put into many locations. There just isn't the line capacity for them. It's a problem we face now in our little town. All our lines are at capacity, and of course the power company doesn't want to have to upgrade big items like transformer stations.

So we're in a kind of limbo, but there's still room for home-sized installations. Alas I live at the base of a south-facing hill, and my 150 year old slate roof is not suited to a rooftop array, so it's not ideal, but I might yet figure out a way to set a solar plant far enough away from the house to work.

I could see, in some future time, probably after I'm dead, that places like this could host an electric vehicle with dedicated solar/grid charging. We'd still need to get some more charging stations around, and more watts to the buck would be nice, but a car that can get a couple of hundred miles off a day of sunshine would be pretty nice even if I had to take the truck sometimes on dark snowy days.
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Old 10th February 2021, 04:58 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You could easily recharge in 30 minutes drive and be off to pick up your passenger and then drive back to Sydney without another stop.

Not to pick on you since multiple people are saying things like this but can a 30 minute charge actually fully charge any reasonable long range EV?


Multiple sources I see (I'll cite Wikipedia) indicate that a short charge like that won't get you charged back to full range.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station


Quote:
Fast charging at public charging stations >40 kW, capable of delivering over 60-mile (100 km) of range in 1030 minutes
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:09 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Not to pick on you since multiple people are saying things like this but can a 30 minute charge actually fully charge any reasonable long range EV?


Multiple sources I see (I'll cite Wikipedia) indicate that a short charge like that won't get you charged back to full range.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station
Because of the way the batteries work, you can usually only fast charge to 80% of capacity. How long it takes to do that depends on the charger, how fast the car can accept the charge, and the car's capacity. A Fast DC charge can charge my car to 80% (about 40 to 60 miles of range) in less than 20 minutes. I think some other EVs can charge much faster than that.

Edit: I think the 40kW number from the Wikipedia quote is at the low range of the fast chargers. Not sure, but I think 50kWis typical and some go up to more than 100kW.

Last edited by jadebox; 10th February 2021 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:23 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Not to pick on you since multiple people are saying things like this but can a 30 minute charge actually fully charge any reasonable long range EV?
A Tesla supercharger can apparently get you about 170miles worth of charge in 30 minutes. Not a full charge, but a good chunk. Fully charging takes much longer. For whatever science reason, the last 20% of battery takes significantly longer to charge.
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:31 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*********. Right now outside of Tesla and the Chevy Bolt fully electric cars have a range of less than 200 miles.

Let's say I buy a Nissan Leaf, which looks to be the cheapest fully electric car you can get right now. It has an ideal range of 150 miles.

I can kill 150 miles before lunch driving from site to site performing trouble calls. It's not super common but it's not a rare occurrence I can just not account for. And then I have to find a place to charge it. And it's not like just filling a tank, it takes time.

The whole "Oh I'm sorry boss I can't work because I'm waiting on my car to charge" is not some insane rare scenario I'm making up.
The Chevy Bolt and most of the Teslas don't either if it is actually tested properly and independently.

Interesting article on it.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shoppin...nge-explained/
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Old 10th February 2021, 05:48 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
Peak periods of electrical usage during the day are the main problem for power companies. They need capacity to handle the peaks, but want to avoid building new coal or natural gas plants because they are expensive to build. Solar and wind will help, but so will EVs. Newer EVs have bidirectional chargers. So, the power company can draw power from these EVs during peak periods and give it back later.
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Interesting. So in the best scenario the increase in EV's and the changes to the power grid should happen together. Guess governments are the only organizations that could realistically coordinate and make that happen. I do not have much confidence. There will be "growing pains" but I have no doubt it has to happen eventually.
Jadebox makes a good point that the infrastructure changes could lag pretty far behind an increase in EV use. We're probably some time, a decade or more, away from having enough EVs on the road to make a substantial demand on the electrical supply. I mean, we can continue to phase out carbon-based electrical capacity for some time while still having enough capacity to meet needs at night (when demand is lower), while using wind and solar to provide enough to meet daytime demands.

But in the very long term picture, we'll have greater ability to harvest electricity during periods of high wind and sunlight. That may someday reach the point where it becomes beneficial to charge cars and other power-storage devices during the daytime to draw down at night. We are far away from that point.
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Old 10th February 2021, 06:56 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by malbui View Post
A little user report from my side.

I've had a Tesla Model 3 LR since March 2019. It has a maximum theoretical range of 540km but I only charge it to 80% unless I'm on roadtrips.

I can charge at home in the garage at 17km/h which is more than adequate for topping up overnight, otherwise with the new generation of Tesla superchargers I can stick 400km of range on it in the time it takes me to go to the bathroom and buy a coffee and snacks. My daily commute during normal times is 12km each way and so I only need to charge every fortnight or so.

I've done a couple of roadtrips of over 2000km without any issues at all. It's true that I needed to check the location of superchargers along the route just in case, but at the same time my weakening bladder and decreasing tolerance for fatigue mean I can only drive in 2.5 to 3 hour bursts anyway. Less on the German autobahns which are extremely tiring.

My nearest city is getting increasingly aggressive about car pollution and the structures are already in place to restrict access by category of emissions during pollution peaks. It's good to be zero-rated already and unaffected by this, even if I rarely drive into the city centre anyway.

In summary, this solution really works for me and my circumstances. Last month I sold the two ICE vehicles I also owned because I simply wasn't using them at all and I can't imagine going back to petrol or diesel again.

Oh yeah, and the performance. Good grief the performance.


Great post. My buddy bought the Model S about a year ago. He took me for a ride after he bought it. He showed me all these cool features and Easter eggs in it like how the volume ETC goes to 11. (Straight out of Spinal Tap) and of course Ludicrous mode. I guess the new top of the line models have the plaid mode. (Both from Space Balls)

I couldn't believe the acceleration in Ludicrous mode. It was like the take off of a jet airliner. Just throws you back into your seat. Lot of fun to drive.
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