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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 4th January 2021, 06:10 PM   #1441
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Does he know he is crossing the line?

This is guy who asserted that he has absolute authority and zero responsibility.

Isnít it possible that he believes that lines are for little people and for people who are not president?
It's possible he believes he is above the law. I don't necessarily even think it's irrational at this point. so far he hasn't faced any consequences for the various felonies and treasons he's committed yet
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:11 PM   #1442
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I believe he is honing in on the 'delusional' aspect. I don't believe that it is the same 'delusional' that meets the legal standard for 'not guilty by reason of insanity'.
yeah i think you are correct. point is, delusional people are still held accountable for their actions, just in a different way than people who are simply malicious
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:11 PM   #1443
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Does he know he is crossing the line?

This is guy who asserted that he has absolute authority and zero responsibility.

Isn’t it possible that he believes that lines are for little people and for people who are not president?
'Know he is' and 'doesn't think it's wrong' both fit into Trump's cognitive dissonance.

But I'd go with, he knows it looks bad but believes it was a 'perfect call', if I had to bet. I doubt he wanted that call to get out.

Did they ever release the actual call with the Ukraine president? It was so long ago...
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Old 4th January 2021, 06:17 PM   #1444
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Trump absolutely believes he's above the law. How he has lived his entire life is evidence of that.

Quote:
One of the most striking traits of many pathological narcissists is that they believe they are “above the law” and “exceptions to the rule,” which entitles them to boundary violations.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...y%20violations.

From Michael Cohen interview:

Quote:
A theme throughout President Trump’s career seems to be that anyone who plays by the rules is a sap or a fool. Is that true?

So, the answer would be 100 percent. I’ve heard him talk like this. Anyone who plays by the rules he deems a sucker. Trump believes that he is above the law. And he actually thinks it’s a positive quality to skirt the law. He thinks that’s how to really get **** done, to be above it all and be able to do whatever you want. And it points to his desire for total power to be above everyone else, and not have to play by the rules that everyone else plays by —simply because he believes that he’s better than that.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...rview-1056146/

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Old 4th January 2021, 10:31 PM   #1445
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
OK, so lets say Trump meets all of the definitions of mentally ill. He is delusional, can't tell fantasy from reality, can't control himself, etc.

Doesn't that absolve him of any crimes he may have committed? Like the phone call with the Georgia SOS, it may be criminal if he knew he was lying but what if he didn't? What if his insanity genuinely makes it so that he was acting sincerely because he simply truly believes that his fantasies are real?

If the Yale Group and posters here are correct in their assessments, that pretty much means that he shouldn't be prosecuted for any crimes he did because he is literally insane.
If so, however, it also means that he must be confined indefinitely for the protection of society until he has recovered from the mental illness that causes his current behaviour. He should also be immediately removed from the Presidency in accordance with the 25th Amendment, as he is medically unfit to discharge the responsibilities of the office. Insanity is a valid defence against criminal responsibility, but it isn't a cause for the justice system to simply throw its hands up and say "Sorry, not our problem, this lunatic can just do whatever he likes."

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Old 4th January 2021, 10:56 PM   #1446
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Well, we already know that his personal physician is willing to lie for him.

There appears that there is no way to get an objective team of psychiatrists to evaluate him in person.

Yes, there is the 25th, but he doesn’t have to see a doctor appointed by Congress. He can show up with a note from any doctor saying that he is the healthiest person to have ever served as president.

One more reason why America is ******.
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:11 AM   #1447
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Mary Trump just said on CNN that everything Trump is doing right now is based on fear. Fear of losing the protection and power afforded by the presidency.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:22 AM   #1448
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Mary Trump just said on CNN that everything Trump is doing right now is based on fear. Fear of losing the protection and power afforded by the presidency.

Thatís inconsistent with the proffered diagnosis of NPD. If he has NPD, then it wouldnít be fear that motivates him, it would be that heís being deprived of something that is rightly his and was stolen from him.

To be clear, I agree with Mary Trump. He fears losing the de facto immunity he enjoys as President and the looming legal battles and business losses he faces in 15 days. He is motivated by that fear. Which means he isnít delusional at all, just a fool who really has been above the law because of the office he holds and he knows/fears what he is facing once heís out of that office.

I think we all know that he wonít actually have to face the music because prosecuting a former POTUS is a bad look for the country. I believe we will see him basically slink off into relative obscurity, trying to make some noise from the sidelines but not too many of us will be listening. And maybe thatís what he fears most of all.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:44 AM   #1449
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
That’s inconsistent with the proffered diagnosis of NPD. If he has NPD, then it wouldn’t be fear that motivates him, it would be that he’s being deprived of something that is rightly his and was stolen from him.

Why do you always come up with your own definitions of what characterizes narcissism and then pretend that these fabrications have something to do with reality?
Fear and decision-making in narcissistic personality disorder—a link between psychoanalysis and neuroscience (US National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health, June 2013)
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:49 AM   #1450
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Thatís inconsistent with the proffered diagnosis of NPD. If he has NPD, then it wouldnít be fear that motivates him, it would be that heís being deprived of something that is rightly his and was stolen from him.

To be clear, I agree with Mary Trump. He fears losing the de facto immunity he enjoys as President and the looming legal battles and business losses he faces in 15 days. He is motivated by that fear. Which means he isnít delusional at all, just a fool who really has been above the law because of the office he holds and he knows/fears what he is facing once heís out of that office.

I think we all know that he wonít actually have to face the music because prosecuting a former POTUS is a bad look for the country. I believe we will see him basically slink off into relative obscurity, trying to make some noise from the sidelines but not too many of us will be listening. And maybe thatís what he fears most of all.
Weren't you the one complaining that people with no expertise shouldn't be over-stepping their bounds?

I'm pretty sure Mary Trump with her psychology degree knows what she is talking about when it comes to assessing her UNCLE.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:50 AM   #1451
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Why do you always come up with your own definitions of what characterizes narcissism and then pretend that these fabrications have something to do with reality?
Fear and decision-making in narcissistic personality disorderóa link between psychoanalysis and neuroscience (US National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health, June 2013)
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Old 5th January 2021, 11:32 AM   #1452
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Weren't you the one complaining that people with no expertise shouldn't be over-stepping their bounds?
Yeah, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Mary Trump with her psychology degree knows what she is talking about when it comes to assessing her UNCLE.
I do too. She is undoubtedly correct. It just isn't a comment on mental illness. In fact, it's counter to everything that's been said about him regarding mental illness. Fear is a sufficient motivator to explain his recent behavior.
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:02 PM   #1453
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Why do you always come up with your own definitions of what characterizes narcissism and then pretend that these fabrications have something to do with reality?
Fear and decision-making in narcissistic personality disorderóa link between psychoanalysis and neuroscience (US National Library of Medicine - National Institutes of Health, June 2013)

I haven't fabricated any definitions of narcissim. The article you linked to does indeed talk about fear in the context of narcissim. But Trump is beyond NPD, isn't he? Maybe narcissism is his defining characteristic, but it's only the beginning of his mental illness and what makes him dangerous -at least according to the shrinks who have analyzed him from afar. According to them, he's also delusional. He can't distinguish the fantasy world he delusionally lives in from the real world. Therefore, in his eyes, he has done nothing wrong and is above reproach. So, he wouldn't fear prosecution for his crimes -in his delusions, he's has a perfect record- what he would fear is the crushing blow to his ego that acknowledging being kicked out of office would entail. That's why he's acting the way he is: fear of failure and losing his own sense of self-esteem. That fear is consistent with a person with delusions and NPD and it's very much in line with what Dr. Lee et. al. have been saying about Trump. It's consistent with the article you linked to.

But Dr. Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist who actually knows him well, has told us that she thinks he fears prosecution. That's a perfectly rational fear and it would indicate that at the very least, he isn't delusional because he sees the real world as it is. He knows he's done wrong and wants to avoid paying for it. He could still be a garden-variety narcissist or even have NPD, but that's really irrelevant to a rational fear of prosecution. Anyone who knows they did wrong would fear that, narcissist or not.

I think Dr. Trump is right.
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:35 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Thatís inconsistent with the proffered diagnosis of NPD. If he has NPD, then it wouldnít be fear that motivates him, it would be that heís being deprived of something that is rightly his and was stolen from him.

To be clear, I agree with Mary Trump. He fears losing the de facto immunity he enjoys as President and the looming legal battles and business losses he faces in 15 days. He is motivated by that fear. Which means he isnít delusional at all, just a fool who really has been above the law because of the office he holds and he knows/fears what he is facing once heís out of that office.

I think we all know that he wonít actually have to face the music because prosecuting a former POTUS is a bad look for the country. I believe we will see him basically slink off into relative obscurity, trying to make some noise from the sidelines but not too many of us will be listening. And maybe thatís what he fears most of all.
Are you claiming he can't have NPD, fear being deprived of something that is rightly his and was stolen from him and also be motivated by fear? Does one negate the other? In that case, you better contact these psychologists and let them know they're wrong.

Narcissistsí Greatest Fears

A Narcissistís Secret Fears
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:48 PM   #1455
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Yeah, but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I do too. She is undoubtedly correct. It just isn't a comment on mental illness. In fact, it's counter to everything that's been said about him regarding mental illness. Fear is a sufficient motivator to explain his recent behavior.
She's correct... blah blah blah.... she's not correct.
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:53 PM   #1456
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I went looking for Dr Frances' current opinion given how he's obviously been wrong claiming Trump isn't mentally ill because his disorder isn't causing him pain. As expected he isn't about to come right out and admit he was wrong.

He posted this tweet.
Quote:
Reasons Trump will fight ugly & to bitter end:
1)No loyalty to America
2)No sense of decency
3)Craves attention of his base
4)Loves playing martyr
5)Lifelong litigiousness
6)Position future media network
7)Distribute corrupt spoils
8)Make deal to avoid jail
Any Others?
More than one person commented along this line:
Quote:
Jennifer Varela, MSW, LCSWs
@JenVarelaLCSWs

Nov 6, 2020
Replying to
@AllenFrancesMD
Desperate to avoid crushing and painful feelings of self-loathing and worthlessness?
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:23 PM   #1457
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I haven't fabricated any definitions of narcissim. The article you linked to does indeed talk about fear in the context of narcissim. But Trump is beyond NPD, isn't he? Maybe narcissism is his defining characteristic, but it's only the beginning of his mental illness and what makes him dangerous -at least according to the shrinks who have analyzed him from afar. According to them, he's also delusional. He can't distinguish the fantasy world he delusionally lives in from the real world. Therefore, in his eyes, he has done nothing wrong and is above reproach. So, he wouldn't fear prosecution for his crimes -in his delusions, he's has a perfect record- what he would fear is the crushing blow to his ego that acknowledging being kicked out of office would entail. That's why he's acting the way he is: fear of failure and losing his own sense of self-esteem. That fear is consistent with a person with delusions and NPD and it's very much in line with what Dr. Lee et. al. have been saying about Trump. It's consistent with the article you linked to.


But Dr. Mary Trump, a clinical psychologist who actually knows him well, has told us that she thinks he fears prosecution. That's a perfectly rational fear and it would indicate that at the very least, he isn't delusional because he sees the real world as it is. He knows he's done wrong and wants to avoid paying for it. He could still be a garden-variety narcissist or even have NPD, but that's really irrelevant to a rational fear of prosecution. Anyone who knows they did wrong would fear that, narcissist or not.

I think Dr. Trump is right.
Please quote and cite a psychologist who has said "He can't distinguish the fantasy world he delusionally lives in from the real world."

Bandy Lee did say this:

Quote:
As to whether Donald Trump actually believes he has won, while this is difficult to tell without an examination, we can have a good estimation from his followers' responses...
Quote:
Because those with delusions usually know their beliefs are untrue, but simply have pushed this knowledge into their unconscious,
As for fear not being part of NPD, or pathological narcissism which Lee says Trump does have, Lee also said this:

Quote:
Breaking laws and norms therefore will be nothing for him, especially when his emotional lifeline depends on it, since the loss of the presidency will mean the loss of a steady stream of adoration, in addition to the likelihood of prosecution and going broke.
That is the fear of loss of protection and power of the presidency which is driving him. As POTUS, he cannot be prosecuted.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:45 PM   #1458
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I went looking for Dr Frances' current opinion given how he's obviously been wrong claiming Trump isn't mentally ill because his disorder isn't causing him pain. As expected he isn't about to come right out and admit he was wrong.

He posted this tweet.
More than one person commented along this line:

If Dr. Francesí listed reasons are correct, and I think they are based simply on watching Trump for the last few years. then they are sufficient to answer the question without bringing mental illness into the discussion.

The comment about the worthlessness and self loathing may or may not be true but if Dr. Frances is right, itís irrelevant.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:51 PM   #1459
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Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness' say psychiatry experts at Yale... Pt 3

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Please quote and cite a psychologist who has said "He can't distinguish the fantasy world he delusionally lives in from the real world."
Why would I when you just did it yourself? Itís been posted many times throughout the years of this thread.

Quote:
Bandy Lee did say this:
As for fear not being part of NPD, or pathological narcissism which Lee says Trump does have, Lee also said this:



That is the fear of loss of protection and power of the presidency which is driving him. As POTUS, he cannot be prosecuted.

Sure, he can fear both the loss of protection and the idea that he is worthless but I think we can apply Occamís Razor here: the rational fear of losing the protection is sufficient to explain his behavior and requires less assumptions.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:21 PM   #1460
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Why would I when you just did it yourself? It’s been posted many times throughout the years of this thread.
That quote from Lee says absolutely nothing even close to that. Stop being intellectually dishonest.


Quote:
Sure, he can fear both the loss of protection and the idea that he is worthless but I think we can apply Occam’s Razor here: the rational fear of losing the protection is sufficient to explain his behavior and requires less assumptions.
Once again, rather than just admit you are wrong, you dig in and defend your post with increased vigor.

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Old 5th January 2021, 02:59 PM   #1461
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That quote from Lee says absolutely nothing even close to that. Stop being intellectually dishonest.
This passage from your article:

Quote:
As to whether Donald Trump actually believes he has won, while this is difficult to tell without an examination, we can have a good estimation from his followers' responses. Delusions are cherished beliefs that allow one to create mostly for oneself a desired reality, where one is a "winner," for example, while dispelling intolerable truths, such as that one could be a "loser." While strategic lies can only get one so far, actual delusions are far more emotionally powerful and more easily passed on because the primary person communicating them is truly convinced of them.

Because those with delusions usually know their beliefs are untrue, but simply have pushed this knowledge into their unconscious, you can also see from their resistance to facts and evidence, doubling down, and even becoming violent when challenged. We see this in his followers, who are often impermeable to information that contradicts their fixed beliefs and can grow belligerent if challenged.
comes within a hair of outright saying Trump is delusional. She skirts that ethical line* by saying that we can get a good estimate by looking at his followers and his followers have "Delusions [which] are cherished beliefs that allow one to create mostly for oneself a desired reality."

So very very close to what I said she said.



Quote:
Once again, rather than just admit you are wrong, you dig in and defend your post with increased vigor.
When I'm wrong, I will admit it. Have done and will do. I ain't wrong here.


*I think it's interesting that she says she needs an examination (!) to know if he's delusional while at the same time outright saying that he is pathologically narcissistic, which is something he profession has said needs an examination to diagnose. Don't you find that weird? Why does diagnosing delusions require an exam and diagnosing NPD doesn't? She is, as is her wont, all over the place.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:01 PM   #1462
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If Dr. Francesí listed reasons are correct, and I think they are based simply on watching Trump for the last few years. then they are sufficient to answer the question without bringing mental illness into the discussion.
No his statements were not correct. He claimed Trump didn't suffer as a result of his narcissism. Trump clearly is suffering as a direct result, and is dysfunctional because of his personality disorder.

And for you to say this:
Quote:
The comment about the worthlessness and self loathing may or may not be true but if Dr. Frances is right, itís irrelevant.
demonstrates you don't remember what he said.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:05 PM   #1463
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
... comes within a hair of outright saying Trump is delusional. ...
There is more than one way the term delusional is used in psychiatry and psychology.

I'm not sure you understand that.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:05 PM   #1464
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There are more ways the term delusional is used in psychiatry and psychology.

I'm not sure you understand that.
Of course, but Dr. Lee defined it almost exactly as I did.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:07 PM   #1465
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No his statements were not correct. He claimed Trump didn't suffer as a result of his narcissism. Trump clearly is suffering as a direct result, and is dysfunctional because of his personality disorder.
I'm talking about the Tweet. He listed 8 reasons why Trump is acting the way he is that have nothing to do with mental illness. Are those reasons incorrect or implausible? I don't think so; they line up exactly with the way Trump has behaved.

Quote:
And for you to say this:demonstrates you don't remember what he said.
I remember what he said back then and I see what he just Tweeted. I'm talking about the latter.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:11 PM   #1466
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I'm talking about the Tweet. He listed 8 reasons why Trump is acting the way he is that have nothing to do with mental illness. Are those reasons incorrect or implausible? I don't think so; they line up exactly with the way Trump has behaved.

I remember what he said back then and I see what he just Tweeted. I'm talking about the latter.
That doesn't have **** to do with his position that Trump didn't suffer and wasn't dysfunctional ergo he wasn't mentally ill.

Did you miss my statement that he still hasn't admitted Trump did suffer and was dysfunctional.

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Old 5th January 2021, 03:17 PM   #1467
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That doesn't have **** to do with his position that Trump didn't suffer and wasn't dysfunctional ergo he wasn't mentally ill.
Ah, but it does have **** to do with the Tweet you shared.

Quote:
Did you miss my statement that he still hasn't admitted Trump did suffer and was dysfunctional.
Why would he need to admit that, exactly? It's obvious that he hasn't changed his opinion. Why is his opinion any less valid than the Yale Group's?
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:20 PM   #1468
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
....

Why would he need to admit that, exactly? It's obvious that he hasn't changed his opinion. Why is his opinion any less valid than the Yale Group's?
I don't suppose you see the irony here ... refusing to change one's position despite being significantly outnumbered?
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:21 PM   #1469
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Therefore, in his eyes, he has done nothing wrong and is above reproach. So, he wouldn't fear prosecution for his crimes -in his delusions, he's has a perfect record- what he would fear is the crushing blow to his ego that acknowledging being kicked out of office would entail..
Isnít it possible that he believes he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent yet simultaneousLy believe he may become the victim of wrongful prosecution and wrongful conviction? In the same way he believes he won the election but because of a far-reaching conspiracy (and incompetence on the part of rank&file Republicans) he will be labeled a loser.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:39 PM   #1470
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
This passage from your article:


comes within a hair of outright saying Trump is delusional. She skirts that ethical line* by saying that we can get a good estimate by looking at his followers and his followers have "Delusions [which] are cherished beliefs that allow one to create mostly for oneself a desired reality."

So very very close to what I said she said.
No. You said:

Quote:
He can't distinguish the fantasy world he delusionally lives in from the real world. Therefore, in his eyes, he has done nothing wrong and is above reproach. So, he wouldn't fear prosecution for his crimes -in his delusions, he's has a perfect record- what he would fear is the crushing blow to his ego that acknowledging being kicked out of office would entail. That's why he's acting the way he is: fear of failure and losing his own sense of self-esteem. That fear is consistent with a person with delusions and NPD and it's very much in line with what Dr. Lee et. al. have been saying about Trump..
That is far different than Trump believing that he won a rigged election. Lee is saying that Trump and his followers may be delusional about that one particular belief but she is most certainly not saying he cannot distinguish a fantasy world from the real world. If that were the case, she'd also be saying he, and all of his followers, are insane.


Quote:
When I'm wrong, I will admit it. Have done and will do. I ain't wrong here.
No, you don't. Not that I've seen. Yes, you are.


Quote:
*I think it's interesting that she says she needs an examination (!) to know if he's delusional while at the same time outright saying that he is pathologically narcissistic, which is something he profession has said needs an examination to diagnose. Don't you find that weird? Why does diagnosing delusions require an exam and diagnosing NPD doesn't? She is, as is her wont, all over the place.
No, I don't think it's weird at all. Sometimes doctors need in-person info to make an accurate diagnosis and sometimes they don't. That would be pretty obvious to anyone not so hung up on trying to score what they think is a point. Which you didn't.
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:38 PM   #1471
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No. You said:



That is far different than Trump believing that he won a rigged election. Lee is saying that Trump and his followers may be delusional about that one particular belief
??? I donít see how you can get that out of the article, especially the part I quoted. She very clearly said: 1)Delusions = fantasy world 2) We can infer something about Trump by looking at his followers, 3)His followers are delusional and therefore: we can infer Trump is delusional.

Quote:
but she is most certainly not saying he cannot distinguish a fantasy world from the real world. If that were the case, she'd also be saying he, and all of his followers, are insane.
She very directly says Trump and his followers are insane. How did you not get that from her words? ďPathological narcissism,Ē and ďdelusional?Ē
Quote:
No, you don't. Not that I've seen. Yes, you are.
Time out.

You understand that just because my opinion is unpopular and you disagree with me does not imply Iím therefore wrong, yes?

Or are you committing, like Skeptic Ginger above you, a classic fallacy: argumentum ad populum?

Quote:
No, I don't think it's weird at all. Sometimes doctors need in-person info to make an accurate diagnosis and sometimes they don't.
This is ludicrous. Crazy, even. Whatís the algorithm to determine when they need an exam or they donít? Oh yeah! There isnít one.

Quote:
That would be pretty obvious to anyone not so hung up on trying to score what they think is a point. Which you didn't.
Who the hell is keeping score? If you think I care about Internet points you couldnít be more wrong about my participation in this thread.
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:39 PM   #1472
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't suppose you see the irony here ... refusing to change one's position despite being significantly outnumbered?

Really? Argumentum ad populum is what weíve come to?
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:50 PM   #1473
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Really? Argumentum ad populum is what weíve come to?
You are the one that brought it up.
Originally Posted by xjx
Why is his opinion any less valid than the Yale Group's?
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:57 PM   #1474
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You are the one that brought it up.

Itís a valid question. You said he hasnít changed his mind. Well, why should he?
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:11 PM   #1475
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Itís a valid question. You said he hasnít changed his mind. Well, why should he?
Because after 4 years of Trump displaying his pathology in a setting he couldn't control like he could in his private life, Dr Lee et al have been proven right and Frances has been proven wrong.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:25 PM   #1476
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
??? I don’t see how you can get that out of the article, especially the part I quoted. She very clearly said: 1)Delusions = fantasy world 2) We can infer something about Trump by looking at his followers, 3)His followers are delusional and therefore: we can infer Trump is delusional.

She very directly says Trump and his followers are insane. How did you not get that from her words? “Pathological narcissism,” and “delusional?”
Time out.
OMG. You are actually claiming that Dr. Lee is saying that nearly half of all Republicans are insane. Because according to a poll taken through November:

Quote:
More than half of Republican voters either believe President Donald Trump actually won the 2020 race or aren’t entirely sure who did win, according to a new survey by researchers from Northeastern, Harvard, Northwestern, and Rutgers.
The findings underscore the success Trump has had in convincing supporters of his voter fraud and election-rigging claims.
Quote:
Nearly 40 percent of Republicans voters said they believe Trump won a second term, while another 23 percent said they weren’t sure of the winner.
For you to claim Dr. Lee is saying that is ...well...






Quote:
You understand that just because my opinion is unpopular and you disagree with me does not imply I’m therefore wrong, yes?

I understand that your opinion is unpopular because it's wrong.

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Old 5th January 2021, 07:27 PM   #1477
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Because after 4 years of Trump displaying his pathology in a setting he couldn't control like he could in his private life, Dr Lee et al have been proven right and Frances has been proven wrong.

In your opinion.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:28 PM   #1478
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
OMG. You are actually claiming that Dr. Lee is saying that nearly half of all Republicans are insane. Because according to a poll taken through November:




For you to claim Dr. Lee is saying that is ...well...



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...51f9525700.jpg

Címon man: anyone who believes Trump win is insane and I donít even have to meet them.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:02 PM   #1479
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Címon man: anyone who believes Trump win is insane and I donít even have to meet them.
C'mon man. You think that is a sane counter argument? So we have millions of insane people in this country? THAT is insane. Once again, rather than admit your position is wrong, you just keep digging in deeper and deeper. I hereby award you the Golden Shovel Award:

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Old 5th January 2021, 08:18 PM   #1480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Because after 4 years of Trump displaying his pathology in a setting he couldn't control like he could in his private life, Dr Lee et al have been proven right and Frances has been proven wrong.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
In your opinion.
And in the opinion of countless professional health experts despite the risk to their professional careers. How many do you see coming forward to defend what a "stable genius" he is?
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