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Old 2nd August 2018, 12:58 PM   #1
Joecool
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Eating Lunch While Black?

This is getting ridiculous but here it is:

Quote:
A Smith College employee called the police on a black student who was eating lunch in a common area because she “seemed to be out of place,” the school said.

The student, Oumou Kanoute, is working at Smith College as a teaching assistant and residential adviser over the summer. She said she was taking a break from work on Tuesday when a police officer approached her and asked why she was there.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/smith-col...155251262.html
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Old 2nd August 2018, 01:11 PM   #2
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well of course she would be out of place,


Last edited by p0lka; 2nd August 2018 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 01:19 PM   #3
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The employee in question should become an ex-employee soon.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 02:22 PM   #4
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The OP article doesn't mention that the caller said that the suspicious person was a black male. The race or identity of the caller has not been reported.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The OP article doesn't mention that the caller said that the suspicious person was a black male. The race or identity of the caller has not been reported.
Edited..... she wasn't presumably reportad as a black male because she was not male. And yes, of course it's quite possible that the reason she was reported to be out of place was not because she was a black but because of her hat.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Edited..... she wasn't presumably reportad as a black male because she was not male. And yes, of course it's quite possible that the reason she was reported to be out of place was not because she was a black but because of her hat.
Nitpick: the victim was a female.

ETA: nvm, you already edited your post.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The OP article doesn't mention that the caller said that the suspicious person was a black male. The race or identity of the caller has not been reported.
Article says she's a her, and if the suspicious incident reported was eating whilst black it would hardly be considered suspicious by the cops, I would hope.

So your point is?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Edited..... she wasn't presumably reportad as a black male because she was not male. And yes, of course it's quite possible that the reason she was reported to be out of place was not because she was a black but because of her hat.
I'm not sure if I understand your response. I'm not implying anything. I'm just adding what is being reported.

The caller thought it was a black male but it was a black female.

Story and photos of the black woman are here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-lunch.html
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Article says she's a her, and if the suspicious incident reported was eating whilst black it would hardly be considered suspicious by the cops, I would hope.

So your point is?
I'm relaying current facts that have been reported and you are asking me my point? WTF?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:21 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
well of course she would be out of place,

https://www.vappingo.com/word-blog/w...the-family.jpg
Aw, your JPEG didn't load for me two hours ago.
Sorry for the delay, here you go...
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:

'All I did was be black. It's outrageous that some people question my being at Smith Collge, and my existence overall as a women of color.
That about sums it up.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:36 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The OP article doesn't mention that the caller said that the suspicious person was a black male. The race or identity of the caller has not been reported.

I'm not sure why their gender would make any difference. Smith has had co-ed graduate programs for quite some time, and male instructors for much of its history. (Three of whom, one after teaching there from 1922 to 1960, were fired for being gay.)

Merely being male in an open common area shouldn't be any reason for concern.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 03:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I'm not sure why their gender would make any difference.
It only adds to the wrongness of the caller.

The caller was wrong about the person actually being "out of place". The caller was also wrong about the person's gender.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It only adds to the wrongness of the caller.

The caller was wrong about the person actually being "out of place". The caller was also wrong about the person's gender.
Maybe not, if I'm understanding your own DM link story. I think that one is saying the caller reported a man, but the cops walked up to and questioned the woman (man was never seen/found/whatever).

Didn't we play this song about four months ago?
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Old 2nd August 2018, 04:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
the cops walked up to and questioned the woman (man was never seen/found/whatever).
That's because the caller mistook a woman for a man.

If you look at photos of the black woman you might see a person who (under certain circumstances) could be casually mistaken for a man. The hair, face and slender figure.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That about sums it up.
Practically every one of these cases can be summed up thusly.
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Old 2nd August 2018, 07:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm not sure if I understand your response. I'm not implying anything. I'm just adding what is being reported.

The caller thought it was a black male but it was a black female.

Story and photos of the black woman are here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-lunch.html
Sorry. I misread your sentence. I thought you were questioning the racism of the initial call, not noting that there was further information about it also being mistaken as to gender.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's because the caller mistook a woman for a man.

If you look at photos of the black woman you might see a person who (under certain circumstances) could be casually mistaken for a man. The hair, face and slender figure.
Well her hair is quite short, and figure rather slender, but the clothes and shoes she's wearing in the photo are quite feminine. Of course, she may not have been wearing the same clothes as in the photo when she was reported as "out of place".
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Old 3rd August 2018, 12:35 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Well her hair is quite short, and figure rather slender, but the clothes and shoes she's wearing in the photo are quite feminine. Of course, she may not have been wearing the same clothes as in the photo when she was reported as "out of place".

I still don't understand why that matters. Man or woman, she would have been no more out of place sitting and eating in an open common area in either case.

Smith is not a female only campus. There are male grad students and male instructors, and have been for years.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 01:29 PM   #20
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I may be wildly mistaken, but I didn't think college grounds were considered "off-limits" to others anyway.

I never questioned others when I attended college, and I have also gone to other campuses, either for actual publicized events, or just to check it out.

It seems surreal to me that another person eating a meal is in any way "scary" or "weird" to someone.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 01:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I may be wildly mistaken, but I didn't think college grounds were considered "off-limits" to others anyway.

I never questioned others when I attended college, and I have also gone to other campuses, either for actual publicized events, or just to check it out.

It seems surreal to me that another person eating a meal is in any way "scary" or "weird" to someone.
They aren't. At least not if they are public universities.
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Old 3rd August 2018, 07:11 PM   #22
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Quite apart from whether or not the cafeteria was open to the public, Smith, though a women's college at the undegraduate level, does not exclude men either from the faculty or the graduate school. Of course who knows what an anonymous employee might do or think, but I think it a safe guess that it was not the maleness by itself that triggered the call.
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Old 5th August 2018, 01:00 PM   #23
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I support suspending the employee, if for no other reason than to make him think long and hard before he acts and assess his biases.
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Old 5th August 2018, 03:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
It seems surreal to me that another person eating a meal is in any way "scary" or "weird" to someone.
This part is the cherry on top.

Let's say an argument could be made that there is a legitimate need to make reasonably sure that unauthorized people aren't accessing sensitive or restricted rooms or places where others' privacy could be invaded and whatnot. Even so, how does somebody quietly sitting on a couch in the common area having a snack raise suspicion along those lines, let alone rise to a level that requires police intervention?
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Old 5th August 2018, 04:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This part is the cherry on top.

Let's say an argument could be made that there is a legitimate need to make reasonably sure that unauthorized people aren't accessing sensitive or restricted rooms or places where others' privacy could be invaded and whatnot. Even so, how does somebody quietly sitting on a couch in the common area having a snack raise suspicion along those lines, let alone rise to a level that requires police intervention?
Easy. She was black.

It's pretty obvious. Two people are sitting there. The worker knows neither. However, one is identified as being "unusual" and therefore suspicious. What makes them that way? Well, they are black, and there just aren't a lot of black people in that area. Therefore, the person must be from somewhere else.

Meanwhile, as per the premise, they both are strangers. But only one is suspicious. Based solely on the color of their skin.
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Old 26th February 2021, 03:58 AM   #26
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Turns out this was yet another fake accusation of racism.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/u...lege-race.html
Student workers were not supposed to use the Tyler cafeteria, which was reserved for a summer camp program for young children. Jackie Blair, a veteran cafeteria employee, mentioned that to Ms. Kanoute when she saw her getting lunch there and then decided to drop it. Staff members dance carefully around rule enforcement for fear students will lodge complaints.

“We used to joke, don’t let a rich student report you, because if you do, you’re gone,” said Mark Patenaude, a janitor.

Ms. Kanoute took her food and then walked through a set of French doors, crossed a foyer and reclined in the shadowed lounge of a dormitory closed for the summer, where she scrolled the web as she ate. A large stuffed bear obscured the view of her from the cafeteria.

A janitor, who was in his 60s and poor of sight, was emptying garbage cans when he noticed someone in that closed lounge. All involved with the summer camp were required to have state background checks and campus police had advised staff it was wisest to call security rather than confront strangers on their own.
So she was not in fact entitled to be where she was at that time, and reporting her to campus police had nothing to do with her race.
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Old 26th February 2021, 07:14 AM   #27
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Every employee, including administration and faculty, should've been forced to attend diversity reeducation after this event. Everyone Involved should have known that shutting down cafeterias for summer programs is systemic racism and a form of white supremacy.
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Old 26th February 2021, 07:45 AM   #28
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Takeaway here is that it took them a year and a half to spit out the reason for involving police, and that this evidently fully accessible area was closed off.

Posit the first: janitor was instructed, as he claims, to call campus PD to deal with strangers in the no-go areas. Student may or may not have been aware that they were in a restricted area. Janitor forgot to mention this for a year and a half.

Posit the second: janitor said that these were his instructions right off, but was told by his higher-ups to be quiet and not get publicly controversial, considering the climate of racial defensiveness or whatever.

Posit the third: mother ******* just can't come up with convincing excuses on the fly. That's like failing at getting out of trouble 101. it took these clowns a year and a half to concoct this story about closed camp areas and not approaching students who walk right in. Should've gotten a freashman in creative writing to handle it the same day.
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Old 26th February 2021, 07:50 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Takeaway here is that it took them a year and a half to spit out the reason for involving police, and that this evidently fully accessible area was closed off.

Posit the first: janitor was instructed, as he claims, to call campus PD to deal with strangers in the no-go areas. Student may or may not have been aware that they were in a restricted area. Janitor forgot to mention this for a year and a half.

Posit the second: janitor said that these were his instructions right off, but was told by his higher-ups to be quiet and not get publicly controversial, considering the climate of racial defensiveness or whatever.

Posit the third: mother ******* just can't come up with convincing excuses on the fly. That's like failing at getting out of trouble 101. it took these clowns a year and a half to concoct this story about closed camp areas and not approaching students who walk right in. Should've gotten a freashman in creative writing to handle it the same day.
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Old 26th February 2021, 07:52 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Turns out this was yet another fake accusation of racism.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/u...lege-race.html
Student workers were not supposed to use the Tyler cafeteria, which was reserved for a summer camp program for young children. Jackie Blair, a veteran cafeteria employee, mentioned that to Ms. Kanoute when she saw her getting lunch there and then decided to drop it. Staff members dance carefully around rule enforcement for fear students will lodge complaints.

“We used to joke, don’t let a rich student report you, because if you do, you’re gone,” said Mark Patenaude, a janitor.

Ms. Kanoute took her food and then walked through a set of French doors, crossed a foyer and reclined in the shadowed lounge of a dormitory closed for the summer, where she scrolled the web as she ate. A large stuffed bear obscured the view of her from the cafeteria.

A janitor, who was in his 60s and poor of sight, was emptying garbage cans when he noticed someone in that closed lounge. All involved with the summer camp were required to have state background checks and campus police had advised staff it was wisest to call security rather than confront strangers on their own.
So she was not in fact entitled to be where she was at that time, and reporting her to campus police had nothing to do with her race.
Maybe.

If it was an area where this rule was not routinely enforced until a person of color was involved, race may still be a matter.
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Old 26th February 2021, 08:17 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
Maybe.

If it was an area where this rule was not routinely enforced until a person of color was involved, race may still be a matter.
But there is zero indication or even a claim that that's the case. And key factors about the case were never reported in a timely manner when they clearly should have been.
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Old 26th February 2021, 10:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Takeaway here is that it took them a year and a half to spit out the reason for involving police, and that this evidently fully accessible area was closed off.

Posit the first: janitor was instructed, as he claims, to call campus PD to deal with strangers in the no-go areas. Student may or may not have been aware that they were in a restricted area. Janitor forgot to mention this for a year and a half.

Posit the second: janitor said that these were his instructions right off, but was told by his higher-ups to be quiet and not get publicly controversial, considering the climate of racial defensiveness or whatever.

Posit the third: mother ******* just can't come up with convincing excuses on the fly. That's like failing at getting out of trouble 101. it took these clowns a year and a half to concoct this story about closed camp areas and not approaching students who walk right in. Should've gotten a freashman in creative writing to handle it the same day.
Posit the fourth: In a climate wherein someone is fired for using a word- in an explanation of how bad it is to use that word- every person involved in this situation was compelled to remain as silent as possible for fear of unpredictable repercussions.
That kind of intense paranoia brought on by well-publicized witch hunts made it near impossible to ferret out the reality of what happened in less than a year and a half.
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Old 26th February 2021, 10:39 AM   #33
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Many things may or may not be true, but if the initial report that the cops were called because an employee thought the perpetrator "seemingly out of place," then there's a problem of some sort. Even if the perpetrator was quite wrong to be there, and the policy reasonable, it would appear to have been handled about as badly as possible.

Ordinarily, one might have presumed that the answer to such an issue would be to approach that person and explain why they should not be there. Is it not at least possible that racial profiling is responsible for the manner in which the issue was addressed? Do we usually call the cops for such things?

Or, of course, if this was a policy that was not immmediately obvious, especially if it was a policy that applied only at certain times, why the hell couldn't the responsible parties put up a sign?
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Old 26th February 2021, 10:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Turns out this was yet another fake accusation of racism.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/u...lege-race.html
Student workers were not supposed to use the Tyler cafeteria, which was reserved for a summer camp program for young children. Jackie Blair, a veteran cafeteria employee, mentioned that to Ms. Kanoute when she saw her getting lunch there and then decided to drop it. Staff members dance carefully around rule enforcement for fear students will lodge complaints.

“We used to joke, don’t let a rich student report you, because if you do, you’re gone,” said Mark Patenaude, a janitor.

Ms. Kanoute took her food and then walked through a set of French doors, crossed a foyer and reclined in the shadowed lounge of a dormitory closed for the summer, where she scrolled the web as she ate. A large stuffed bear obscured the view of her from the cafeteria.

A janitor, who was in his 60s and poor of sight, was emptying garbage cans when he noticed someone in that closed lounge. All involved with the summer camp were required to have state background checks and campus police had advised staff it was wisest to call security rather than confront strangers on their own.
So she was not in fact entitled to be where she was at that time, and reporting her to campus police had nothing to do with her race.
There really is no such thing as a racist incident in your world is there?
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Old 26th February 2021, 10:46 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
There really is no such thing as a racist incident in your world is there?
When every incident is racist, no incident is racist.
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Old 26th February 2021, 10:52 AM   #36
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Many things may or may not be true, but if the initial report that the cops were called because an employee thought the perpetrator "seemingly out of place," then there's a problem of some sort. Even if the perpetrator was quite wrong to be there, and the policy reasonable, it would appear to have been handled about as badly as possible.

Ordinarily, one might have presumed that the answer to such an issue would be to approach that person and explain why they should not be there. Is it not at least possible that racial profiling is responsible for the manner in which the issue was addressed? Do we usually call the cops for such things?

Or, of course, if this was a policy that was not immmediately obvious, especially if it was a policy that applied only at certain times, why the hell couldn't the responsible parties put up a sign?
You are suggesting that the "old white guy" janitor approach the young black lady on a college campus with a direct query?

Do you live in a cave?
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Old 26th February 2021, 11:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
You are suggesting that the "old white guy" janitor approach the young black lady on a college campus with a direct query?

Do you live in a cave?
Your position here is that sending in the cops is the safer option to avoid accusations of racism?
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Old 26th February 2021, 11:02 AM   #38
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Your position here is that sending in the cops is the safer option to avoid accusations of racism?
For the Janitor is certainly was.

possibly "trans-phobia" as well, since he would have "misgendered" her right from jump.
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Last edited by Distracted1; 26th February 2021 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 26th February 2021, 11:08 AM   #39
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
Your position here is that sending in the cops is the safer option to avoid accusations of racism?
Pretty sure the janitor isn't paid to confront possible tresspassers, discern their intentions, and render judgement on whether they're allowed to stay. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a whole other team of people who are getting paid to do exactly that.

In fact, it seems to me that everyone was doing their jobs that day: The trespasser was trespassing, the janitor was janitoring, the police were policing, and the administrators were administrating. The rules were enforced, nobody got hurt, and all we lost was precious time, a little dignity, and the trespasser's precious feelings.
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Old 26th February 2021, 11:39 AM   #40
Cavemonster
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty sure the janitor isn't paid to confront possible tresspassers, discern their intentions, and render judgement on whether they're allowed to stay. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a whole other team of people who are getting paid to do exactly that.

In fact, it seems to me that everyone was doing their jobs that day: The trespasser was trespassing, the janitor was janitoring, the police were policing, and the administrators were administrating. The rules were enforced, nobody got hurt, and all we lost was precious time, a little dignity, and the trespasser's precious feelings.

I've been on both sides of conversations that basically went "Oh hey, I'm sorry, but this area is closed off right now".

It never involved specialized security or law enforcement.

And importantly, it never resulted in press coverage of any kind. It never resulted in a need to hire lawyers or perform an investigation. It never resulted ina PR headache.

Generally talking to people like people is a good move and can avoid some uneeded drama.
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Last edited by Cavemonster; 26th February 2021 at 11:42 AM.
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