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Old 22nd October 2020, 01:31 AM   #1
caveman1917
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Various legal troubles of anti-fascists

Inspired by the other thread.

On 16/9 a total of 51 anti-fascists were arrested in Thessaloniki, Greece after having overwritten neo-nazi graffiti on some benches near a monument. A couple of days earlier members of one of the new Greek neo-nazi parties (after the judicial breakup of Golden Dawn it splintered into about a dozen groups/parties) had been spraying swastikas and other neo-nazi symbolism on the benches, and when the anti-fascists showed up to remove/overwrite these they were attacked by a bunch of police leaving 15 injured, of which 2 hospitalized. All 51 are now charged with

Quote:
1) Disobedience, because they refused to get their photos taken and fingerprints left;
2) Disorder to public order (this is a very common charge that is laid whenever someone protests);
3) Destruction of a public site, for the antifascist slogans they wrote to cover up those of the fascists. Apparently, for the Greek court, representing the bourgeois ′′ justice only fascist hate speech is allowed on the walls.
4) Breach of the Law on the Protection of Antiques.
5) Criminal prosecution for ′′ damage to monuments ". This claim was made through the Antique Conservative, who has no problem supporting this obscene lie, even though damaged ′′ monuments ′′ are actually benches located near the real historic monument of Salonika, the ′′ White Tower ".
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 22nd October 2020, 06:05 AM   #2
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On 8/10/20 the trial in appeal against 12 anarchists in Belgium happened, the judgement is expected in a month or so. After some solidarity actions in Belgium with the 2008 Greek uprising surrounding the police execution of Alexis Grigoropoulos in Exarchia, Athens, the federal prosecutor of Belgium opened an investigation on what it hypothesized to be an "anarchist terrorist organization" in Belgium. This investigation continued until 2014, involving State Security, the Military Intelligence Directorate, and the anti-terrorist services of several European countries, and included phone tapping, installing recording devices around and inside homes, infiltration, house searches, etc.

In July 2017 the council chamber decided to remove the prosecutor's qualifications of terrorism and a whole bunch of other allegations were scrapped, and ultimately 12 people were referred to the correctional court for criminal conspiracy, assaults on police officers (aka the cops beating you up), insults to European magistrates and politicians by "singing a song in the Schuman metro station to the tune of the Champs-Élysées full of insults to EU magistrates" (Schuman metro station is the metro of the European institutions in Brussels), and some other offences. Almost immediately the federal prosecutor put out a slanderous press release with various media claiming that the council chamber had decided to refer them to the correctional court for terrorism (apparently the prosecutor couldn't stomach that the council chamber had denied his inclusion of terrorism so he tried to mislead the public instead about what the council chamber had, in fact, decided - prosecutors are such sad people). In May 2019 the correctional court judged the case inadmissible on grounds of the investigation having been illegal. The federal prosecutor appealed, and this appeal process is what just happened now on 8-9/10/2020.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 22nd October 2020 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 22nd October 2020, 02:29 PM   #3
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The Netherlands has denied the request for political asylum of Abtin Parsa and is planning to extradite him to Greece. None of the likely outcomes are particularly good here, from being dumped somewhere at sea, over possible torture in Greece to certain torture in Iran.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 22nd October 2020, 05:21 PM   #4
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On 29/10/2020 the trial in Greece against 12 members of Rouvikonas will start for a range of political actions (flyers, vandalism, etc), a trial which had been postponed back in June 2018.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 23rd October 2020, 06:20 AM   #5
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An interesting point was brought up by sackett in this post which, sadly,[*] has since been moved to AAH. Namely as to why the examples aren't from 'Murica since, obviously, 'Murica is so exceptional that the whole world could only possibly want to have a thread about examples of legal troubles of anti-fascists in 'Murica. This objection to internationalism is a core feature of 'Murican right-wingers' political philosophy, so it is no surprise to see it being raised, as it ties into the 'Murican exceptionalism and nationalism that is shared by both political parties there.

This of course still doesn't address the substance of sackett's objection, namely why am I not giving 'Murican examples instead of - or at least in addition to - those from other countries? The reason for this is very simple. As anyone can tell the thread - in inspiration of the other thread, which sackett doesn't seem to object to as it focuses on 'Murica - is titled "Various legal troubles of anti-fascists" and it just so happens to be the case that the troubles of anti-fascists in 'Murica are of the extra-legal sort (it's called extra-judicial execution for a reason) so don't fit under the thread's domain. Of course, sackett is always free to start his own thread on "Various troubles, legal or extra-legal, of 'Murican anti-fascists."

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11. Please raise any FM issues in Forum Management Feedback
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by zooterkin; 28th October 2020 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 23rd October 2020, 07:58 AM   #6
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Fair play, cave, and I agree that this forum and its moderation are too ladylike.

My fed-up post made no mention of America, 'scuse me, 'Murica. The only country I named was Greece. I still challenge you to explain the significance, the importance, the interest of events there or anywhere in the Balkans during these world-encompassing disasters.

Fascism is fermenting and rising everywhere. If it's spreading in Greece, that's no surprise. I'm old enough to remember the Colonels; nothing coming out of Greece surprises me.

I said the Balkins.
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Old 23rd October 2020, 08:20 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Fair play, cave, and I agree that this forum and its moderation are too ladylike.
Funny, I don't believe I said anything about "ladylike" or some such. Right-wingers and their obsession with traditional gender roles is only second to their obsession with nationalism.

Quote:
My fed-up post made no mention of America, 'scuse me, 'Murica. The only country I named was Greece.
True, which made me consider the notion that your problem was with Greece but, since I also had already posted two instances from the Netherlands and from Belgium as well, I concluded that 'Murica it is.

But yes I understand how fed-up this must make you, but take deep breaths and try to understand: Sometimes people talk about things which happen outside of 'Murica. I know, you're a shining beacon on a hill and anyone who dares talk about some other place must be a narcissist because only such narcissists could possibly be selfish enough to dare talk about events outside the hill without requesting permission from you, whose guiding shine upon the low-lands might be ignored.

Quote:
I still challenge you to explain the significance, the importance, the interest of events there or anywhere in the Balkans during these world-encompassing disasters.
And I challenge you to explain why you have a problem with a thread on the various legal troubles of anti-fascists but not on the various legal troubles of fascists.

Quote:
Fascism is fermenting and rising everywhere. If it's spreading in Greece, that's no surprise. I'm old enough to remember the Colonels; nothing coming out of Greece surprises me.
Very few things on this forum surprise me, doesn't mean I go haywire that someone posts about it. Do you do this often?
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 23rd October 2020, 12:11 PM   #8
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Legal troubles..... and you don't think it's important the country involved, when each country has its own legal system? The most critical part of any equation is ensuring the units match, and your units don't.
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Old 23rd October 2020, 01:23 PM   #9
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Legal troubles..... and you don't think it's important the country involved, when each country has its own legal system? The most critical part of any equation is ensuring the units match, and your units don't.
Those are definitely all words. Try again when you can also make them come together into some sort of coherent point.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 23rd October 2020 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 29th October 2020, 06:18 AM   #10
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
On 29/10/2020 the trial in Greece against 12 members of Rouvikonas will start for a range of political actions (flyers, vandalism, etc), a trial which had been postponed back in June 2018.
From Alerta:
Quote:
Update from Rubicon's trial: All 12 defendants are innocent in all cases. Another staged persecution collapsed.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 29th October 2020, 05:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Those are definitely all words. Try again when you can also make them come together into some sort of coherent point.
Only Greece's laws matter here. Wonder why Greece doesn't appear in your title, which instead is meant to tie to another thread about fascists in the US and Europe, when it's about a few cases in only one country that doesn't appear in the companion thread. Disingenuous to say the least.
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Old 30th October 2020, 04:19 AM   #12
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Only Greece's laws matter here. Wonder why Greece doesn't appear in your title, which instead is meant to tie to another thread about fascists in the US and Europe, when it's about a few cases in only one country that doesn't appear in the companion thread.
Stop lying. Of the 4 instances in this thread so far 2 have been from Greece, 1 from Belgium, and 1 from the Netherlands. Clearly it is not from "only one country." Indeed, these 4 instances are just the ones I am most familiar with at this time, there is no other reason for that choice of instances than that. Your second lie is that Greece doesn't appear in the companion thread, where there have, to the contrary, been posts on instances in Greece.

Quote:
Disingenuous to say the least.
Yes you are extremely disingenuous.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 30th October 2020 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 31st October 2020, 10:41 AM   #13
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I didn't read the other thread. If caveman is pulling shenanigans in this thread, y'all are exposing it in such a way as to be unintelligible.
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Old 12th November 2020, 10:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
The Netherlands has denied the request for political asylum of Abtin Parsa and is planning to extradite him to Greece. None of the likely outcomes are particularly good here, from being dumped somewhere at sea, over possible torture in Greece to certain torture in Iran.
Report back of protest in solidarity with anarchist Abtin Parsa

Originally Posted by AGA
Last Saturday, 7-11-2020, the Anarchist Group Amsterdam organized a protest regarding the extremely dangerous situation in which the anarchist Abtin Parsa from Iran is currently in.

Below is the call for the protest and the background is also explained a bit there.
https://www.agamsterdam.org/niet-ira...ervolgde-anar…

At 2 pm on the Beursplein in Amsterdam people started to gather. Soon we were almost 50 people, with different ages and backgrounds, and there were also quite a lot of people from outside Amsterdam, tribute for that!

{...}
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 23rd November 2020, 08:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
On 8/10/20 the trial in appeal against 12 anarchists in Belgium happened, the judgement is expected in a month or so.
Two people were sentenced to 10 months suspended (for 5 years), one to 8 months suspended (for 5 years), one to 6 months suspended (for 3 years), five people without a sentence, and three were acquitted. The Court of Appeal followed the prosecutor's argument that the illegality of the investigation and of the acquisition of the evidence has no bearing on its admissibility in court.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 28th November 2020, 06:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
The Court of Appeal followed the prosecutor's argument that the illegality of the investigation and of the acquisition of the evidence has no bearing on its admissibility in court.
Probably related: The head of the Brussels-South police department in Belgium stated on 18/11/2020 on national TV that "the anarchist movement" is being very closely surveilled by police at this time, although he declined to state what "very closely" meant exactly. Assuming these are the same methods as the Court of Appeal case above that would be house searches, phone and email tapping, and installation of recording equipment inside homes. Either way, he stated that this was justified because he claimed that a so-called "anarchist movement" was leaving public writings on the walls calling for "beating up firefighters and police." No such writings were shown, the writings which were actually shown in the background stated "Justice pour Adil" ("Justice for Adil"[*]) - make of that what you will I guess. Some anarchists have responded saying that these allegations are false, and obviously so, as anyone who can read can tell.

It appears that the government is trying to deflect attention from the negative press it has gotten recently regarding its cover-ups of far-right & police killings of migrants by making up stories of an "anarchist movement" which is purportedly writing "beat up firefighters" on the walls and is being "closely surveilled by police." Or I suppose the stories could also be an attempt to rile up far-right vigilante groups as the social media responses are - completely unsurprisingly - filled with calls for "importing the way to deal with the Antifa business from the US" and for armed fascist groups to be allowed to execute the migrants and the anarchists and such. This comes in a context of anti-police violence protests (under the "Justice pour Adil" banner) which police is continuing to have trouble to contain, so it wouldn't be surprising if they would try get help from far-right vigilante groups.

* An immigrant teenager who recently died during a run-in with police.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 28th November 2020 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 29th November 2020, 11:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
The head of the Brussels-South police department in Belgium stated on 18/11/2020 on national TV that "the anarchist movement" is being very closely surveilled by police at this time, although he declined to state what "very closely" meant exactly.

{...}
He clarified in "De Standaard" magazine that the real problem, according to him, is that "the anarchist movement" is printing t-shirts with "Justice pour Adil" on in their squats, at least admitting that it is indeed not "Beat up firefighters" that is being written. And apparently he considers this politically inconvenient because of how it supposedly creates a perception of a police force covering up their racist violence, which he ascribes to nothing but the fake news of "conspiracy theorists." Well, at least the Slovakian government doesn't seem to have all that much confidence in these things either, so there's that I guess.

Anyway, this crime of printing t-shirts with "Justice pour Adil" on (and not any posters with "beat up firefighters" on) is supposedly then the real justification for all sorts of repressive measures and powers he had asked for in the earlier interview. It's all very unspecified really, but in this interview he discusses how he chooses to send his officers into certain neighbourhoods to chase and "catch" people while admitting these people are doing nothing wrong.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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Old 30th November 2020, 09:41 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
He clarified in "De Standaard" magazine that the real problem, according to him, is that "the anarchist movement" is printing t-shirts with "Justice pour Adil" on in their squats, at least admitting that it is indeed not "Beat up firefighters" that is being written. And apparently he considers this politically inconvenient because of how it supposedly creates a perception of a police force covering up their racist violence, which he ascribes to nothing but the fake news of "conspiracy theorists." Well, at least the Slovakian government doesn't seem to have all that much confidence in these things either, so there's that I guess.

Anyway, this crime of printing t-shirts with "Justice pour Adil" on (and not any posters with "beat up firefighters" on) is supposedly then the real justification for all sorts of repressive measures and powers he had asked for in the earlier interview. It's all very unspecified really, but in this interview he discusses how he chooses to send his officers into certain neighbourhoods to chase and "catch" people while admitting these people are doing nothing wrong.
Looks like cops are the same the world over.
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Old 1st December 2020, 03:53 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Looks like cops are the same the world over.
Yeah it's fascinating how the exact same playbook is used. Cops kill someone, the cops investigated themselves and concluded they did nothing wrong, unrest ensues. And immediately the playbook starts.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:16 AM   #20
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Dimitris Koufontinas, an imprisoned member of the N17 group, has been on hunger strike for over a month in protest against the refusal of the government to grant his rights. As the government continues to refuse it is likely he will die soon, and thereby become the first imprisoned hunger striker to die in Europe since 1981. The prime minister considers the case a personal vendetta, as a member of his dynasty was killed by N17 in 1989.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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