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Old 5th June 2019, 03:02 PM   #121
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by MEequalsIxR View Post
I don't know who you mean by we but I for one do not.
Don't you want to drink water?

Water is a blessing Allah has created for us.
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Old 5th June 2019, 04:15 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't you want to drink water?

Water is a blessing Allah has created for us.

Just as well Allah did that. We would be completely ****** if we didn't have water. Mind you it took man to create beer, wine, and other nice beverages, from water and a few other ingredients. You're Muhammad didn't seem to have any skills in that direction although Jesus did.

An interesting observation just occurred to me.

Jesus is recognised as a prophet in Islam and he famously made wine. Islam forbids the consumption of wine so how could this be?
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:22 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
. Islam forbids the consumption of wine so how could this be?
No;

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610016.0
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:41 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
A bunch of nonsense, which millions of Muslims ignore every day of the week.

All the proscriptions on various foods are entirely cultural and historic. Nothing to do with religion. For example, the Jews also avoid eating pig products, and in some cases even just touching implements that have touched pig products. And the Jewish faith long precedes Islam by thousands of years so they have that much more experience in this. And yet both religions come from the same small geographical region - they are both Semitic religions. Which also explains why they share so much in common.

So it is far more likely that forbidding pig products is a Semitic idea, not particularly Jewish or Islamic.
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:42 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

Well here we have one of those interpretation things.

From your reference;

5/91

The devil only wants to cause strife between you through alcohol and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer. Will you be deterred?

However from: SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

5/91

Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?

Be deterred or desist? Something of a difference there.

Perhaps you, Emre, are a Muslim who likes a drink and choses to mould the interpretation to satisfy your own needs?
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:44 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't you want to drink water?

Water is a blessing Allah has created for us.
No, water is a necessity for all life that the evolution of the Earth created. From billions of years before Allah was even created in the mind of one desert-dwelling despot.
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:45 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
A bunch of nonsense, which millions of Muslims ignore every day of the week.

All the proscriptions on various foods are entirely cultural and historic. Nothing to do with religion. For example, the Jews also avoid eating pig products, and in some cases even just touching implements that have touched pig products. And the Jewish faith long precedes Islam by thousands of years so they have that much more experience in this. And yet both religions come from the same small geographical region - they are both Semitic religions. Which also explains why they share so much in common.

So it is far more likely that forbidding pig products is a Semitic idea, not particularly Jewish or Islamic.

Emre likes to tell the occasional 'porky' too we all notice.
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Old 5th June 2019, 05:54 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Emre likes to tell the occasional 'porky' too we all notice.
No;

Eating pork is halal when there is the risk of starvation. Allah does not list conditions such as believing, doing good works and being aware and believing again and doing good works again and again etc. The only condition to eat pork is the risk of dying because of hunger...

Quran -He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs and that which is dedicated to other than God. But if one is driven by necessity, without being deliberate or malicious, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
(16 The Honey Bees, 115)

Quran – Say: “I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: dead animals, running blood, the meat of pigs – for it is unclean – and the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to someone other than God.” But even so, if a person is forced by necessity, without being deliberate or malicious, your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
(6 The Cattle, 145)
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Old 5th June 2019, 06:02 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No;

Eating pork is halal when there is the risk of starvation. Allah does not list conditions such as believing, doing good works and being aware and believing again and doing good works again and again etc. The only condition to eat pork is the risk of dying because of hunger...

Quran -He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs and that which is dedicated to other than God. But if one is driven by necessity, without being deliberate or malicious, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.
(16 The Honey Bees, 115)

Quran – Say: “I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: dead animals, running blood, the meat of pigs – for it is unclean – and the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to someone other than God.” But even so, if a person is forced by necessity, without being deliberate or malicious, your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
(6 The Cattle, 145)
Who are pigs dedicated to? Why are they different to, say, wild boars?
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Old 5th June 2019, 06:38 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Jesus is recognised as a prophet in Islam and he famously made wine. Islam forbids the consumption of wine so how could this be?
Only a prophet, not God. Just because he made wine doesn't mean we should drink it.

Jesus in Islam
Quote:
In Islam, Jesus is believed to have been the precursor to Muhammad, attributing the name Ahmad to someone who would follow him. Islam rejects the divinity of Jesus and teaches that Jesus was not God incarnate, nor the Son of God, and—according to some interpretations of the Quran—the crucifixion, death and resurrection is not believed to have occurred
At least that's one thing they got right!

The Christian Bible also riles against the abuse of alcohol, and can be interpreted as not approving of indulging in it.

Alcohol in the Bible
Quote:
Biblical literature displays an ambivalence toward intoxicating drinks, considering them both a blessing from God that brings joy and merriment and potentially dangerous beverages that can be sinfully abused...

There are some who interpret certain passages in the Bible as not referring to alcohol, arguing that all positive references to "wine" in Scripture refer to non-alcoholic beverages and all negative references speak of alcoholic beverages... even in earlier stages of the English language, such as in 1611 when the King James Version was translated, "wine" could refer to non-alcoholic beverages as well as alcoholic ones.

Why would God not ban alcohol after He saw the damage it was doing? What sort of a God would He be if He couldn't even change His own laws?

But whatever the real reason, forbidding the consumption of alcohol is another thing that Islam got right!
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Old 5th June 2019, 06:57 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Quran – Say: “I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: dead animals, running blood, the meat of pigs – for it is unclean – and the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to someone other than God.” But even so, if a person is forced by necessity, without being deliberate or malicious, your Lord is Forgiver, Merciful.
(6 The Cattle, 145)
Thank you for that interesting quote from the Quran. After all the talk here about Islam being a 'problem' it's a relief to find that your god is a pragmatist who doesn't hold his followers to ridiculous promises they can't keep.
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Old 5th June 2019, 09:47 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Only a prophet, not God. Just because he made wine doesn't mean we should drink it.

Jesus in Islam
At least that's one thing they got right!

The Christian Bible also riles against the abuse of alcohol, and can be interpreted as not approving of indulging in it.

Alcohol in the Bible


Why would God not ban alcohol after He saw the damage it was doing? What sort of a God would He be if He couldn't even change His own laws?

But whatever the real reason, forbidding the consumption of alcohol is another thing that Islam got right!
Say... What was Jesus' first miracle again??
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Old 6th June 2019, 04:07 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I said people desire things that exist.

I desire an Orion woman with green skin, red hair and a sex drive equal to my own. By your logic that means she must exist.

Do you see how absurd your claim is? The fact that someone desires a something does not mean it exists.

You are still just repeating The Law of Attraction. All you’ve done is graft Allah onto a nonsensical wish-fulfillment mythology.
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Old 6th June 2019, 06:03 AM   #134
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Let's not badger a Turk who likes his tipple. They've been cheerfully ignoring Muhammud (peas and carrots be upon him, selah) and his silly begrudging since day zero. Anatolian wines were esteemed in antiquity, never went out of production, and have staged a comeback in our day.

Byron called the Turks a sensible people. I bleeve, b'god, that he had something there.
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Old 6th June 2019, 08:38 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Don't you want to drink water?

Water is a blessing Allah has created for us.
That's not what anyone is claiming and I think you know it. The fact you need to lie about what we're writing says far more about your alleged beliefs than I think you intended.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:11 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
We desire the blessings of Allah.
Speak for yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, he can kiss my ass.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:15 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No;

Eating pork is halal when there is the risk of starvation.
God has really stupid rules.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:17 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
God has really stupid rules.
*cough*
DonnerParty
*cough*
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Old 6th June 2019, 12:51 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Speak for yourself.



As far as I'm concerned, he can kiss my ass.
Hank, is that you?
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Old 6th June 2019, 01:37 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Emre likes to tell the occasional 'porky' too we all notice.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No;

Eating pork is halal when there is the risk of starvation. Allah does not list conditions such as believing, doing good works and being aware and believing again and doing good works again and again etc. The only condition to eat pork is the risk of dying because of hunger...

The term "porky" is used in Australia as an alternative to "telling a lie".

It was just a play on words from me Emre, not a provocation for you to come in heavy in your defence of eating pork. Do you wash your pork down with a chardonnay perhaps?
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Old 6th June 2019, 02:39 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
The term "porky" is used in Australia as an alternative to "telling a lie".

?
Pork is forbidden. You only have permission to survive.

But there is a different situation in alcoholic beverages and I explained this in my article.
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Old 6th June 2019, 02:45 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Pork is forbidden. You only have permission to survive.
Well God's an idiot because pork is de-licious!
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Old 6th June 2019, 03:02 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
The term "porky" is used in Australia as an alternative to "telling a lie".

It was just a play on words from me Emre, not a provocation for you to come in heavy in your defence of eating pork. Do you wash your pork down with a chardonnay perhaps?
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Pork is forbidden. You only have permission to survive.

But there is a different situation in alcoholic beverages and I explained this in my article.

The degree of comprehension you are exhibiting here demonstrates why so many on these threads just can't get through to you.
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Old 6th June 2019, 03:37 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
The degree of comprehension you are exhibiting here demonstrates why so many on these threads just can't get through to you.
I feel sorry for religious people like Emre. There is NO EVIDENCE for his god. There is NO EVIDENCE for any god. Yet, people believe. Which of course flabbergasts me. Take a miracle from the bible or the Koran and have it happen to a neighbor in the modern world and I'm sure Emre would roll his eyes. But put in it some ancient book and have it happen to an illiterate pedophile and they are off to Mecca, or ready to strap a bomb to their chest or fly a plane full of people into a building.

Pretty damn sad.
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Old 6th June 2019, 04:09 PM   #145
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Quran 56:68 Have you noted the water you drink?

Quran 56:69 Did you send it down from the clouds, or was it We who sent it down?

Quran 56:70 If We wished, We could make it salty. If only you would give thanks.


Blessings not only help us survive, they also offer comfort and pleasure.
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Old 6th June 2019, 04:31 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Quran 56:68 Have you noted the water you drink?

Quran 56:69 Did you send it down from the clouds, or was it We who sent it down?

Quran 56:70 If We wished, We could make it salty. If only you would give thanks.


Blessings not only help us survive, they also offer comfort and pleasure.
And to think that Muslims used to leadthe world in scholarly learning. Yet it has gone this far backwards today.
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Old 6th June 2019, 05:06 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
And to think that Muslims used to leadthe world in scholarly learning. Yet it has gone this far backwards today.
From the most educated, most advanced place on the planet to a scene from Deliverance. The beauty of religion.
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Old 6th June 2019, 05:06 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I feel sorry for religious people like Emre. There is NO EVIDENCE for his god. There is NO EVIDENCE for any god. Yet, people believe. Which of course flabbergasts me.
It doesn't flabbergast me. The need to explain the fundamentals of existence, and to convince yourself that you're not really going to die, is strong in most people. Happens to me from time to time, as well. So many choose to believe in something, even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary, that fills that need.

They could, however, pick less ridiculous belief systems. I can think of a couple of nice ones that fit the bill without going into talking donkeys and snakes.
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Old 6th June 2019, 05:22 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It doesn't flabbergast me. The need to explain the


You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
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Old 6th June 2019, 06:26 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It doesn't flabbergast me. The need to explain the fundamentals of existence, and to convince yourself that you're not really going to die, is strong in most people. Happens to me from time to time, as well. So many choose to believe in something, even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary, that fills that need.

They could, however, pick less ridiculous belief systems. I can think of a couple of nice ones that fit the bill without going into talking donkeys and snakes.
I understand that people don't want to die. I also get the desire to answer questions. What I don't understand is why anyone thinks goat herders or camel jockeys from thousands of years ago would have the answers.

How does one dismiss evolution, DNA, the geological column, radiometric dating
and its methodological rigor which has led the miracles of the modern world and embrace the fairy tales of brutal societies of people who stoned human beings?
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Old 6th June 2019, 06:41 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
Atheism isn't a superstition. It is simply not believing in the imaginary. OTOH, believing that Mohammad flew to the moon on a winged horse sounds very much like a superstition.
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Old 6th June 2019, 07:37 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
You're the one who escapes the truth and goes after superstitions like atheism.
Do you believe in the great Nordic god Thor?
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Old 6th June 2019, 07:48 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Do you believe in the great Nordic god Thor?
Thor is real. I saw him in a movie.
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Old 6th June 2019, 07:53 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Atheism isn't a superstition. It is simply not believing in the imaginary. OTOH, believing that Mohammad flew to the moon on a winged horse .
There is no such belief in the Qur'an and Islam.

You have mixed the hadith religion with Islam.

But atheism is a superstition.
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Old 6th June 2019, 08:22 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Thor is real. I saw him in a movie.

That's my pop you're talking about.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:40 PM   #156
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
There is no such belief in the Qur'an and Islam.

You have mixed the hadith religion with Islam.

But atheism is a superstition.
How exactly is not believing in the imaginary and mythical a superstition? Is English a second language for you Emre? Here are some dictionary definitions of the word superstition.

su·per·sti·tion
/ˌso͞opərˈstiSH(ə)n/
noun
excessively credulous belief in and reverence for supernatural beings.
"he dismissed the ghost stories as mere superstition"
synonyms: unfounded belief, credulity; More a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.

Superstition
Superstition is any belief or practice that is considered irrational or supernatural:

Please explain.
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Old 6th June 2019, 09:42 PM   #157
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
That's my pop you're talking about.
He's got a killer hammer.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:41 AM   #158
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
How exactly is not believing in the imaginary and mythical a superstition? .
Islam commands only believing in true knowledge based on evidence.

Islam prohibits superstitions.
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:34 AM   #159
Roger Ramjets
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Islam prohibits superstitions.
Definition of Superstition
1a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

If Islam prohibits superstitions then it should prohibit all belief in the Supernatural - including miracles and other supernatural occurrences, and claims of beings with supernatural powers. No Heaven or Hell, no divine retribution or intervention, no eternal souls - just a moral code, advice and traditions created and maintained by humans.

I applaud this Islam which eschews superstition, banishes ignorance and fear, and embraces science and rationality. That is the kind of religion I could get behind!
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Old 7th June 2019, 03:07 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
We desire the blessings of Allah.
No, most people here have no need of invisible sky daddies.
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