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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old Yesterday, 08:57 PM   #2521
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I'm not going to debate the idiocy of a belief Watergate never happened.
What part of Watergate counters a president does not have the power to stop an investigation? Everyone agreed he had a right to fire. He had to comply with a judicial subpoena, but that is a judicial power. They didn't have the power to counteract an order to stop a prosecutor. Watergate absolutely supports he has the power to stop a DoJ investigation.
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Old Yesterday, 08:58 PM   #2522
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
He absolutely does have the power to stop the DoJ investigation while president. Impeachment doesn't change that.
Specifically where do you get your information?

Tell the truth, is it just how you wish it was?
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Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM   #2523
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Even if Trump is impeached, what makes you think that will end an investigation against him?
He is no longer president at that point. That doesn't counteract my statement that explicitly said in post 2517 "while president."
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Old Yesterday, 09:01 PM   #2524
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Specifically where do you get your information?

Tell the truth, is it just how you wish it was?
The exact opposite. I point this out so we can change the system and not rely on non enforceable cultural norms.

And frankly, is there anyone out there taking the position he cannot direct the AG to stop an investigation and simply fire them until one does?

Last edited by BobTheCoward; Yesterday at 09:03 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:04 PM   #2525
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Just to remind you that Paraguay is not the United States of America.
If we simply stopped expressing a foreign policy, eventually we will be.
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Old Yesterday, 09:04 PM   #2526
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What part of Watergate counters a president does not have the power to stop an investigation? Everyone agreed he had a right to fire. He had to comply with a judicial subpoena, but that is a judicial power. They didn't have the power to counteract an order to stop a prosecutor. Watergate absolutely supports he has the power to stop a DoJ investigation.
there were only two options for Nixon.

Resignation, or removal from office for obstruction.

Trump will be faced with the same choice in all likelihood. Trump. Not the office.
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM   #2527
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
there were only two options for Nixon.

Resignation, or removal from office for obstruction.

Trump will be faced with the same choice in all likelihood. Trump. Not the office.
Which seems like proof he does have the power to stop the investigation. Those two options do not include "force restart of DoJ investigation over the president's authority."
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Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM   #2528
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The exact opposite. I point this out so we can change the system and not rely on non enforceable cultural norms.

And frankly, is there anyone out there taking the position he cannot direct the AG to stop an investigation and simply fire them until one does?
Well that's up to us, isn't it? We'd need to vote in a democratic Congress and change the landscape. Then neuter him or remove him.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM   #2529
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Well that's up to us, isn't it? We'd need to vote in a democratic Congress and change the landscape. Then neuter him or remove him.
I would also prefer to amend the Constitution to a more parliamentary system.
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Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM   #2530
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Which seems like proof he does have the power to stop the investigation. Those two options do not include "force restart of DoJ investigation over the president's authority."
Jesus *********** Christ.

The investigation continues! If he's in or out, it doesn't *********** matter.

Just yes or no. You understand that? Yes or no?
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Old Yesterday, 09:09 PM   #2531
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
He is no longer president at that point. That doesn't counteract my statement that explicitly said in post 2517 "while president."
Like I said, you have your own unique view of the Constitution and even SCOTUS does not share it. What you don't seem to understand was the SCOTUS ruling that Nixon had to hand over his incriminating tapes.

If it was the imaginary interpretation of the Constitution as you believe, why were not those tapes protected by executive privilege?

United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974)
Quote:
United States v. Nixon is considered a crucial precedent limiting the power of any U.S. president to claim executive privilege.
You might want to brush up on that case, maybe apply it to your imaginary interpretation of unlimited POTUS power to do anything unless impeached.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; Yesterday at 09:10 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM   #2532
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Jesus *********** Christ.

The investigation continues! If he's in or out, it doesn't *********** matter.

Just yes or no. You understand that? Yes or no?
If he is out, then he no longer president. Therefore he doesn't have the power to continue stopping the investigation.
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Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM   #2533
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Like I said, you have your own unique view of the Constitution and even SCOTUS does not share it. What you don't seem to understand was the SCOTUS ruling that Nixon had to hand over his incriminating tapes.

If it was the imaginary interpretation of the Constitution as you believe, why were not those tapes protected by executive privilege?

United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683 (1974)

You might want to brush up on that case.
Subpoenas are not exercises of executive power. It is a judicial power. It is not the other branch wielding executive power (the point of my argument).
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM   #2534
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If he is out, then he no longer president. Therefore he doesn't have the power to continue stopping the investigation.
which means that as president he can't, either. Because it would lead to his removal. And if he's removed, he won't have the power.

/done
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Old Yesterday, 09:16 PM   #2535
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
which means that as president he can't, either. Because it would lead to his removal. And if he's removed, he won't have the power.

/done
That is what having the power of the office means. You have the power of your office until you are out of office. And while you are in office, the other branches cannot override that power.
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #2536
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No other branch can override the executive branch?

Seriously?
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Old Yesterday, 09:21 PM   #2537
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
No other branch can override the executive branch?

Seriously?
On something derived from the vesting clause. No, im not going to repeat every caveat I made like 20 posts back.

Can they override a firing? Can they override his order to stop an investigation? Not take a separate action to apply political pressure... actually override.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; Yesterday at 09:23 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM   #2538
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I don't blame you. It's next to impossible to keep track of all these caveats.

So I'll bottom line it for you.

Again.

He can't stop the investigation. Period. It's out of his control. It's out of the control of the office.
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM   #2539
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I don't blame you. It's next to impossible to keep track of all these caveats.

So I'll bottom line it for you.

Again.

He can't stop the investigation. Period. It's out of his control. It's out of the control of the office.
I said stop while president. Neither opposing branch can force the DOJ investigation to continue while he is president.

What does it matter when he is out of office? There are a whole host of presidential actions that can be overridden by the next president.
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Old Yesterday, 09:42 PM   #2540
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What does it matter?
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Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM   #2541
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Have a good nite.
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM   #2542
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
What does it matter?
I'm not arguing that it does matter.

It is merely a discussion of the rules. I also like to discuss the fair catch kick rule of the NFL even though it is
Quote:
The fair catch kick rule is very rarely invoked,[14][16][17] and is one of the rarest plays in football.[16][17] The rule has been regarded as "obscure",[14][15] "bizarre",[17] and "quirky"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_catch_kick
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #2543
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Subpoenas are not exercises of executive power. It is a judicial power. It is not the other branch wielding executive power (the point of my argument).
Color me unsurprised you have some bizarre contortion to support your unshared view.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM   #2544
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Color me unsurprised you have some bizarre contortion to support your unshared view.
Or, you know, the obvious conclusion in a discussion on the vesting clause.
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