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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 6th January 2021, 04:57 PM   #3481
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
An attempt, though. Fortunately a very incompetent attempt.
Not even an attempt. At no point did the insurrectionists attempt to overthrow the legal government and replace it with their own. They merely interfered with the business of the government.

Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That, my friends, is a coup d'etat

And it had to be done.
Yeah, that's not a Coup either. Again the legal government isn't being overthrown and replaced. The President is just being ignored in the process.
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Old 6th January 2021, 04:58 PM   #3482
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not even an attempt. At no point did the insurrectionists attempt to overthrow the legal government and replace it with their own. They merely interfered with the business of the government.



Yeah, that's not a Coup either. Again the legal government isn't being overthrown and replaced. The President is just being ignored in the process.
What total BS.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:00 PM   #3483
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, that's not a Coup either. Again the legal government isn't being overthrown and replaced. The President is just being ignored in the process.
Neither the VP nor the Speaker are in the chain of command to activate the National Guard.

That they did means they asserted their authority over the president. That's overthrowing and replacing him.

And the military went along with it.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:02 PM   #3484
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
OK, how 'bout we downgrade that to "can appear not to be a total ******* when he tries really hard"?
It's, at maximum, "doesn't appear to be a complete bumbling idiot when footage of him is heavily edited by production staffers."
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:02 PM   #3485
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Originally Posted by dmaker View Post
OMG. The crowd is chanting "We want Pence!"

WTF...
At least it's not a coup-coup. I mean, they haven't actually lynched anyone yet.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:02 PM   #3486
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It's being reported that Twitter locked Trump 's account.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:03 PM   #3487
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So now the storming of Capitol Hill is over (? - or are they camping the night as claimed by some...?) should I start commenting here instead?

25th Amendment being discussed right now in a secret location so Trump might be impeached and out tomorrow and never allowed to run for presidency again.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:04 PM   #3488
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What total BS.
A coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Merely stopping a government from doing its business is not and never will be a coup. A coup is when a government is forced from power. No government was being forced from power here, even if you want to say that they were trying to prevent the hand over to Biden, Biden is not the US Government. The legitimate legislative government of the US is congress, there have been no attempts to overthrow them or to seize their power.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:05 PM   #3489
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not even an attempt. At no point did the insurrectionists attempt to overthrow the legal government and replace it with their own. They merely interfered with the business of the government.



Yeah, that's not a Coup either. Again the legal government isn't being overthrown and replaced. The President is just being ignored in the process.
Look up Hitler's beer hall putch - ten years before he seized power. This was an orchestrated stunt.

Don't be fooled by the dumb appearance and raging idiocy. He knows what he is doing. He is a wicked evil man.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:06 PM   #3490
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I don't know, the coup thread the protest thread? Guess I'll go to the protest thread.

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
No. Did they try to take over the government? To overthrow an election?
Went to the other thread. Link
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:07 PM   #3491
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So did you label the Bundy Ranch event or the Malheur Forest event insurrections? Attempted insurrections?
I did!
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:07 PM   #3492
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Neither the VP nor the Speaker are in the chain of command to activate the National Guard.

That they did means they asserted their authority over the president. That's overthrowing and replacing him.

And the military went along with it.
The President is still the President, he was not overthrown nor replaced. Neither is the President the Government.

The VP and House Majority Leader may have overstepped their bounds, but they did not seize the powers of the Government not try and replace them. They are a part of the legitimate government.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:08 PM   #3493
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
A coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Merely stopping a government from doing its business is not and never will be a coup. A coup is when a government is forced from power. No government was being forced from power here, even if you want to say that they were trying to prevent the hand over to Biden, Biden is not the US Government. The legitimate legislative government of the US is congress, there have been no attempts to overthrow them or to seize their power.
Yes.

We probably all should stop arguing this point. I'm not going to change my mind and the people trying to call it a coup aren't either.

I believe I've said all I can on this topic.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:08 PM   #3494
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's being reported that Twitter locked Trump 's account.
They outright removed three of his recent tweets - that usually triggers an automatic suspension.

(Although, really, they should give the Library of Congress time to archive it, and then remove it entirely.)

ETA: It's 12 hours *after* he removed the offending tweets, according to @twittersafety - and a permaban if he does it again.

Last edited by Mumbles; 6th January 2021 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:10 PM   #3495
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The day Trump assumed office and gave a speech, someone got up and remarked, "Well, that was some weird ****." Day 1447, a mob took over the capitol building. I understand that happening in Michigan (aka Northern Florida), but DC?
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:11 PM   #3496
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So now the storming of Capitol Hill is over (? - or are they camping the night as claimed by some...?) should I start commenting here instead?
The media has shifted to reminiscing.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
25th Amendment being discussed right now in a secret location so Trump might be impeached and out tomorrow and never allowed to run for presidency again.
Is this true?

Or sarcasm?

Apparently Trump can be impeached even after he leaves office to prevent him running again.

I'd put that way down near the end of legal cases that should be brought against Trump. Can he run if he gets a felony conviction?

I'd think Merrick Garland will have a long list to consider,

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 6th January 2021 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:11 PM   #3497
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
It's, at maximum, "doesn't appear to be a complete bumbling idiot when footage of him is heavily edited by production staffers."
I wouldn't know, I would sooner have shoved bamboo splinters under my own fingernails rather than willingly watch "The Apprentice."
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:11 PM   #3498
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
They outright removed three of his recent tweets - that usually triggers an automatic suspension.

(Although, really, they should give the Library of Congress time to archive it, and then remove it entirely.)
Luckily they are recorded for prosperity on this list.

The one quoted by zooterkin was so funny, I laughed out loud.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:13 PM   #3499
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
A coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Merely stopping a government from doing its business is not and never will be a coup.
The business they were trying to stop was the processing of a legitimate election. When you try to illegally overturn a legitimate election and prevent the peaceful transfer of power, by means such as this, then it is a coup.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
A coup is when a government is forced from power. No government was being forced from power here, even if you want to say that they were trying to prevent the hand over to Biden, Biden is not the US Government. The legitimate legislative government of the US is congress, there have been no attempts to overthrow them or to seize their power.

Wrong!

There are three branches of government in the US: Legislative (that's Congress) Judiciary (The SCOTUS) and Executive (that is the presidency and Biden has been elected to that role).
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:13 PM   #3500
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The media has shifted to reminiscing.

Is this true?

Or sarcasm?
The person who posted that tweet is a blue tick white house correspondent.

Quote:
White House Correspondent
@theGrio
| Political Analyst for
@CNN
| Author | Booking Contact: pam@smgspeakers.com
Has:

16.6K
Retweets
4.2K
Quote Tweets
70.3K
Likes


So seems authentic.

ETA: Ah, sorry, here's the link:

https://twitter.com/AprilDRyan/statu...512576514?s=20

Quote:
Congressional leaders are in the undisclosed location and focusing on the 25th Amendment to get
@realDonaldTrump
out of office!
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:13 PM   #3501
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Look up Hitler's beer hall putch - ten years before he seized power. This was an orchestrated stunt.

Don't be fooled by the dumb appearance and raging idiocy. He knows what he is doing. He is a wicked evil man.
No one is dismissing the dangers with this, or trying to downplay the seriousness, but at the same time redefining legal definitions, resorting to hyperbole, and Godwining the argument doesn't help in any way.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:14 PM   #3502
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That, my friends, is a coup d'etat



And it had to be done.
Supervision and control of D.C. National Guard was delegated by the president to the*defense secretary*pursuant to Executive Order 10030, 26 January 1949

Request came from D.C. Mayor.

Nothing particularly improper about it.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:15 PM   #3503
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I wouldn't know, I would sooner have shoved bamboo splinters under my own fingernails rather than willingly watch "The Apprentice."
Keep in mind, I've avoided his racist behind since he said the so-called Central Park 5 should still be in jail despite having been fully exonerated - and stopped watching broadcast entirely after birtherism (and only bothered with MSNBC because Melissa Harris-Perry and Chris Hayes were on weekends)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:16 PM   #3504
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The media has shifted to reminiscing.

Is this true?

Or sarcasm?

Apparently Trump can be impeached even after he leaves office to prevent him running again.

I'd put that way down near the end of legal cases that should be brought against Trump. Can he run if he gets a felony conviction?
Why not? Lyndon LaRouche did. Trump needs to be in that category.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:17 PM   #3505
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
No one is dismissing the dangers with this, or trying to downplay the seriousness, but at the same time redefining legal definitions, resorting to hyperbole, and Godwining the argument doesn't help in any way.
Legal definition of coup d'etat? Which legal definition are you using?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:17 PM   #3506
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not even an attempt. At no point did the insurrectionists attempt to overthrow the legal government and replace it with their own. They merely interfered with the business of the government.

Yeah, that's not a Coup either. Again the legal government isn't being overthrown and replaced. The President is just being ignored in the process.
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
A coup is "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Merely stopping a government from doing its business is not and never will be a coup. A coup is when a government is forced from power. No government was being forced from power here, even if you want to say that they were trying to prevent the hand over to Biden, Biden is not the US Government. The legitimate legislative government of the US is congress, there have been no attempts to overthrow them or to seize their power.
These right wing terrorists absolutely seized power from the government. That occurred when they drove the government out of the Capitol and occupied it for several hours. Therefore, coup.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:18 PM   #3507
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It needs to go through congress but can happen as an emergency.

If Pence has turned on Trump then that is the end, surely.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ErFpJo_WMAAoezr.jpg (53.5 KB, 4 views)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:19 PM   #3508
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Keep in mind, I've avoided his racist behind since he said the so-called Central Park 5 should still be in jail despite having been fully exonerated - and stopped watching broadcast entirely after birtherism (and only bothered with MSNBC because Melissa Harris-Perry and Chris Hayes were on weekends)
Still in jail? I think he said they should be executed.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:20 PM   #3509
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Reports that the Insurrectionists are talking about moving the revolt to other parts of DC.
I would love to see them try it in Anacostia. The residents there just love people who wave the Confederate flag.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:21 PM   #3510
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TRUMP BANNED FROM TWITTER for 12 hours.

Quote:
BREAKING NEWS: Donald Trump is BANNED from Twitter for the next 12 hours as it deletes his tweets for the first time ever and YouTube removes his video
DAILY MAIL
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:22 PM   #3511
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The business they were trying to stop was the processing of a legitimate election. When you try to illegally overturn a legitimate election and prevent the peaceful transfer of power, by means such as this, then it is a coup.
Except that they didn't rush in to attempt to overturn the election. Yes, that is what they want in the end, but there is no mechanism to do such by invading the Capitol. They invaded in an attempt to make their voices heard so that an investigation would be held and the election legally overturned. It doesn't make what they did right, or any less a violent insurrection, but it was not and can't be a coup because they had nor have no ability to overturn the election or to usurp the powers of the Government.

Quote:
Wrong!

There are three branches of government in the US: Legislative (that's Congress) Judiciary (The SCOTUS) and Executive (that is the presidency and Biden has been elected to that role).
1) The President is the head of the Executive Branch, they aren't the entire Executive Branch. They are not "The Government," they are a part of the Government.

2) Biden is the President-Elect, not the President. The President-Elect will not a part of the Government until 12:00pm on the 20th Jan, 2021.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:22 PM   #3512
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It needs to go through congress but can happen as an emergency.

If Pence has turned on Trump then that is the end, surely.
I think rumours of Pence's turning on Trump have been exaggerated.

He's surely going to end up accepting the results, I would think, but I think you are hoping for him growing more vertebrae than is going to happen.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:23 PM   #3513
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
These right wing terrorists absolutely seized power from the government. That occurred when they drove the government out of the Capitol and occupied it for several hours. Therefore, coup.
What powers of the Government did they seize during that time? Do you really believe that merely being in the chamber allows them to conduct themselves with the powers of the Government?
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:25 PM   #3514
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
No one is dismissing the dangers with this, or trying to downplay the seriousness, but at the same time redefining legal definitions, resorting to hyperbole, and Godwining the argument doesn't help in any way.
You downplayed it when you referred to what happened as “merely stopping a government from doing its business” as if a few Trump supporters were in the back the Senate Chamber with air horns.

Right wing terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol. Police were attacked. Guns were drawn. Shots were fired. Elected officials had to be evacuated or barricaded themselves in their offices. The Capitol was occupied for several hours by a hostile force.

That’s a coup.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:25 PM   #3515
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Except that they didn't rush in to attempt to overturn the election. Yes, that is what they want in the end, but there is no mechanism to do such by invading the Capitol. They invaded in an attempt to make their voices heard so that an investigation would be held and the election legally overturned. It doesn't make what they did right, or any less a violent insurrection, but it was not and can't be a coup because they had nor have no ability to overturn the election or to usurp the powers of the Government.







1) The President is the head of the Executive Branch, they aren't the entire Executive Branch. They are not "The Government," they are a part of the Government.



2) Biden is the President-Elect, not the President. The President-Elect will not a part of the Government until 12:00pm on the 20th Jan, 2021.
There is an "office of the President-elect" and law requires agencies to report certain things to that office.

No, they don't have the statutory authority of President, but that is "part of the government."
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:29 PM   #3516
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Watching Beau of the Fifth Coloumn's livestream. He had a good point that the police opening the barricade might just have been withdrawing to another defense line farther back.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:29 PM   #3517
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
What powers of the Government did they seize during that time? Do you really believe that merely being in the chamber allows them to conduct themselves with the powers of the Government?
Objecting to a procedure is a power of office.

Such objections have limits.

The people who stormed in today arguably exercised more power than that.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:29 PM   #3518
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Interesting tidbit.

Recently elected West Virginia State House GOP representative Derrick Evans was one of the mob forcing his way into the US Capitol.

The moron even posted video to his Facebook page. He then thought better of that and deleted it.

Ooops too late.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:30 PM   #3519
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
What powers of the Government did they seize during that time? Do you really believe that merely being in the chamber allows them to conduct themselves with the powers of the Government?
A coup - by the definition you provided - doesn’t require those carrying it out to assume the power of the government, only to seize it.

The power of the government to conduct its business was seized by these right wing terrorists when they drove the government out and took control of the Capitol.
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Old 6th January 2021, 05:30 PM   #3520
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I think rumours of Pence's turning on Trump have been exaggerated.

He's surely going to end up accepting the results, I would think, but I think you are hoping for him growing more vertebrae than is going to happen.
Pence has had a fright. In his 'Save America' rally rant today he did say he was 'very disappointed' with Pence, with menacing undertones and he invited the crowd to walk to Capitol Hill.

I was watching the debate live when the commotion happened and they evacuated the chamber very quickly. Mike Pence was moved elsewhere under secret service guard. It must have been quite frightening for him as these loonies were in he building and virtually coming through the door. Trump had instructed them that Pence was a target for their ire.

It needs the Vice President to raise the 25th Amendment and I feel sure, Pence having seen the events unfolding today will be very keen to distance himself from Trump and to disassociate the Republican Party from him.

Pence has no spine but it is amazing what a terrible shock can do to a person. The danger to his safety - and others - will help concentrate his mind.

Not a single National Guard in sight for two hours. It could have been a disaster.
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