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Tags 2020 elections , donald trump , election conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

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Old 6th January 2021, 07:46 PM   #3601
cosmicaug
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I swear, do you go out of your way to not understand things? It has zero to do with other coups, it has to do with the fact another poster claimed that it was a coup because these people wanted to install Trump as President when he lost the Election. I am pointed out that no, they are trying to keep Trump as president because they believe he won the election. It has zero to anyone believing that they are in right, it has to do with if they believe that Trump is the legitimate winner of the election.
So yeah, if they sincerely believe (or can make you believe that they believe) that they are doing the right thing it's not a coup, it's just doing God's work.

I'm clear now.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:47 PM   #3602
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Originally Posted by Reformed Offlian View Post
Like one of his rallies turned up to six?
Yes. Still four more levels available. Wait till you see eight.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:51 PM   #3603
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I guess we can't count tattoos if they're hidden by clothing. But I think it's pretty likely there were at least a few.
They'll become more visible with time.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:51 PM   #3604
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Hawley seems to be indicating he will "put his name on paper" again tonight.

That means another 2 hour debate.

Theoretically he may do it for the 6 battleground states.
Theoretically, he could do it for all 50 states.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:52 PM   #3605
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
And their goal of halting the Powers of the Government from transferring those powers to the democratically elected President from their candidate, who they were convinced actually won? That's not a 'seizing'? Remember that failing in a goal does not mean the goal didn't exist.
Only if you are trying to make the argument that they were trying to give the powers of the Legislative to the Executive.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:52 PM   #3606
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Also the zip-ties they were carrying indicates a desire to capture and take into custody any congresscritter they found.
Any? I would think someone had a list. I would think Mike Pence was on it.



Probably only "a statement" but such things stay only a statement until they become more than that.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:53 PM   #3607
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
So yeah, if they sincerely believe (or can make you believe that they believe) that they are doing the right thing it's not a coup, it's just doing God's work.

I'm clear now.
That's a lot of straw for a skeptic's forum.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:53 PM   #3608
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I see nothing in the literal translation of the term or the usage of it (I'm a fan of 19C European revolutions) to indicate seizure is necessary.

For pragmatic reasons (limbo is bad), having the new thing handy in your briefcase is a good idea.

But look at these goons. They don't protest. When they do, it is a police escorted parade. They don't plan street medics, aid supplies, crisis counselors, let alone a faux parliamentary session, just run around like children in a museum.

But a lot a coups, failed and successful, have had that.

The latter are the richest to study, quite honestly.

"We won!

...

Ooooooh ****."

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 6th January 2021 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:57 PM   #3609
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I swear, do you go out of your way to not understand things? It has zero to do with other coups, it has to do with the fact another poster claimed that it was a coup because these people wanted to install Trump as President when he lost the Election. I am pointed out that no, they are trying to keep Trump as president because they believe he won the election. It has zero to anyone believing that they are in right, it has to do with if they believe that Trump is the legitimate winner of the election.
It doesn’t matter what they believe. We don’t need their agreement that this was a coup for it to be a coup. Their delusions have no bearing on the reality of their actions.
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:59 PM   #3610
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Preventing someone from using power is not seizing it. Seizing requires the taking possession of the thing being seized. Preventing the Government from being seated is not seizing their power in any form.
Did Congress have the power to certify the election results while right wing terrorists were in control of the Capitol?
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Old 6th January 2021, 07:59 PM   #3611
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In other news, they are now voting on whether "to sustain the objection."

"No" means sanity.

But there are 47 more states (5 more may be objected to for 2 hours each).
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:02 PM   #3612
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Did Congress have the power to certify the election results while right wing terrorists were in control of the Capitol?
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:02 PM   #3613
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
In other news, they are now voting on whether "to sustain the objection."

"No" means sanity.

But there are 47 more states (5 more may be objected to for 2 hours each).
They could in theory object to others. But this is a stunt. It's really more a question how much longer they want to continue with a stunt.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:04 PM   #3614
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
No, it's not required.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:05 PM   #3615
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They could in theory object to others. But this is a stunt. It's really more a question how much longer they want to continue with a stunt.
Yes, I did not mean to imply they are limited to 5 more, but those key states were what was telegraphed as their planned time.

Hawley seems ready to go at least one more.

ETA: still a massive question mark beyond that.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:05 PM   #3616
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I see nothing in the literal translation of the term or the usage of it (I'm a fan of 19C European revolutions) to indicate seizure is necessary.
Really?

here are a bunch of Dictionary usages.

- a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
- a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
- a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force
- a sudden and violent change in government
- the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group


Quote:
But look at these goons. They don't protest. When they do, it is a police escorted parade. They don't plan street medics, aid supplies, crisis counselors, let alone a faux parliamentary session, just run around like children in a museum.

But a lot a coups, failed and successful, have had that.
This is a bit like saying, "it has feathers so it must be a duck."
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:06 PM   #3617
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
It doesn’t matter what they believe. We don’t need their agreement that this was a coup for it to be a coup. Their delusions have no bearing on the reality of their actions.
It was a Coup attempt. An inept Coup Attempt, but an attempt none the less.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:06 PM   #3618
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Did Congress have the power to certify the election results while right wing terrorists were in control of the Capitol?
That's not the correct question.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:07 PM   #3619
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Okay so question.

What WOULD make it a coup attempt then?
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:07 PM   #3620
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Yes, I did not mean to imply they are limited to 5 more, but those key states were what was telegraphed as their planned time.

Hawley seems ready to go at least one more.

ETA: still a massive question mark beyond that.
I understood. And piss off Hawley.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:07 PM   #3621
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
At the time the Constitution was adopted, there was no Capitol building. There was no Washington, DC. The first Congresses met in New York and Philadelphia. They can meet wherever they choose.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:08 PM   #3622
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really?

here are a bunch of Dictionary usages.

- a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
- a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
- a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force
- a sudden and violent change in government
- the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group




This is a bit like saying, "it has feathers so it must be a duck."
Okay, then, what would YOU call today's debacle? What convenient one-word term that would be easily recognizable to explain what this was would YOU employ?

If you want to be King Vocabulary you should be able to provide the goods. (Or wait until your maddened supporters storm the ISF and try to coup us, I guess!)
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:08 PM   #3623
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here's the thing. Trump has been attempting a coup since before the election. But as his former fixer has said when Trump wants his associates to break a law, he never tells them explicitly. He uses mob speak. This is no different.

Those morons that stormed the Capitol today weren't attempting a coup. Trump was inviting them to in some desperate hope that the chaos would keep him in power. Those idiots didn't have a clue what they were doing. And neither does Trump.
When one of these morons climbed a balcony in the Capitol, and replaced an American flag with a Trump flag- then threw the former to the ground, I kinda got the message on what they're intentions are. Seems pretty clear to me.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:09 PM   #3624
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really?

here are a bunch of Dictionary usages.

- a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
- a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
- a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force
- a sudden and violent change in government
- the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group


This is a bit like saying, "it has feathers so it must be a duck."
You cannot force a different outcome, such as President Trump rather than President Biden, unless you seize control of the mechanisms of power that are investing into President Biden. There's simply no other way.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:15 PM   #3625
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
The certification has to happen, but the congress can meet anywhere. No legal requirement that it be in the capitol building. They can meet in a barn in Podunk Plains, Idaho but if they have a quorum it's a legal session.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:26 PM   #3626
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I understood. And piss off Hawley.
Agreed.

For all here, I apologize on behalf of Missouri.

My mom called his office and left a message telling him because of today, he has blood on his hands.

I love my mom. She's from Canada, but got her U.S. citizenship in the late 80s.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:29 PM   #3627
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Theoretically, he could do it for all 50 states.
Well, they already accepted Alabama and Alaska, so I think those are safe.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:30 PM   #3628
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Originally Posted by cosmicaug View Post
Any? I would think someone had a list. I would think Mike Pence was on it.

https://www.armytimes.com/resizer/60...UNIQYZUM6Y.jpg

Probably only "a statement" but such things stay only a statement until they become more than that.
Hadn't seen the gallows before. I don't suppose that's photoshopped?
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:30 PM   #3629
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The certification has to happen, but the congress can meet anywhere. No legal requirement that it be in the capitol building. They can meet in a barn in Podunk Plains, Idaho but if they have a quorum it's a legal session.
Giuliani: "Quick, to the Four Seasons!"
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:32 PM   #3630
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https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/st...81830845415631
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:39 PM   #3631
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really?

here are a bunch of Dictionary usages.

- a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.
- a sudden violent or illegal seizure of government
- a sudden and decisive change of government illegally or by force
- a sudden and violent change in government
- the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group




This is a bit like saying, "it has feathers so it must be a duck."
I said translation.

(a) stroke of (or "at a") state (capital E in d'État)

I'll skip the jargon.

Transliteration comes out rebellion, insurrection, revolution, overturn, etc.

Again, for the same reasons we assign things like "ethnolinguistic groups" while also excepting they aren't really hard and fast, or this is the Roman Republic, while that is the Roman Empire, but nobody in Rome woke up aware of that distinction...

A coup is a an attack on the state. Maybe they possess existing offices in a charade that takes on legitimacy, maybe a new government form, maybe an interim commission to hold new elections, but those are all held as a different component of an overall "takeover/overthow/supplant" historical event.

Something could happen tomorrow that makes a 40 year look back on this moment a whole different word.

Why hammer it out in real-time?

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Old 6th January 2021, 08:40 PM   #3632
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
When one of these morons climbed a balcony in the Capitol, and replaced an American flag with a Trump flag- then threw the former to the ground, I kinda got the message on what they're intentions are. Seems pretty clear to me.
It's definitely what they want. But it isn't really seizing power.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:40 PM   #3633
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is there anything in the Constitution that says where the certification has to occur? In that particular building, or anywhere in the capital city? The Capitol is normally the most convenient place for them to do it, but is it required?
As others have pointed out, location doesn’t matter but you do need a quorum.

And a quorum would prove difficult when some members of Congress are barricaded in their offices and others have been evacuated because right wing terrorists have taken control of the Capitol.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:42 PM   #3634
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
That's not the correct question.
Your concession is noted.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:44 PM   #3635
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
I see your Charlie Kirk, and I raise you a Tomi Lahren.

https://twitter.com/JermaineWatkins/...147596289?s=19
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:53 PM   #3636
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Agreed.

For all here, I apologize on behalf of Missouri.

My mom called his office and left a message telling him because of today, he has blood on his hands.

I love my mom. She's from Canada, but got her U.S. citizenship in the late 80s.
Josh Hawley: worst guy from Missouri since Jesse James.
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Old 6th January 2021, 08:57 PM   #3637
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Josh Hawley: worst guy from Missouri since Jesse James.
A friend of mine is from St. Louis, and while he's not a bad guy, he tells me St. Louis is the murder capital of the United States. So, all I'm saying is that there may be competition. Hawley's probably still in the running though.
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Old 6th January 2021, 09:06 PM   #3638
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
A friend of mine is from St. Louis, and while he's not a bad guy, he tells me St. Louis is the murder capital of the United States. So, all I'm saying is that there may be competition. Hawley's probably still in the running though.
On second though, you need to include Quantrell and Bloody Bill Anderson in the compatition.
She a movie called "Ride With The Devil" for further info. One of the most accurate movies made on the Civil War.
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Old 6th January 2021, 09:09 PM   #3639
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay so question.

What WOULD make it a coup attempt then?
already answered. An attempt to take control of the powers of Government by the insurrectionists, for example declaring that they were now the US congress and holding votes on which electors to accept.
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Old 6th January 2021, 09:11 PM   #3640
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Not for example, taking control of the powers of Government by the insurrectionists in order to dictate the next President?
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