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Tags bigfoot , bigfoot sightings , NAWAC

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Old 17th April 2017, 01:43 PM   #3161
William Parcher
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It is very simple to kill a primate that is throwing rocks at a cabin at night. You could do it on your first try.

This isn't done because the guys with guns at the cabin know that the thrower is human. They know it's a pretend thing and they are not naive or credulous. There will never be a kill shot because they know it's a person and not a Bigfoot.

They are complicit in hoaxing and are therefore hoaxers themselves.
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Old 17th April 2017, 05:46 PM   #3162
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
When are the wood ape people gonna show us a wood ape?...
Apparently they think Dorothy and Scarecrow can't figure out their uncanny ability to produce a Wood Ape on demand relates only to the medium, not the reality. If it's a story in words on the page, POOF there's a Wood Ape. When a picture is needed, the camera batteries died. There's a reason they continue to act is if they're long past any "establishment of a new species phase" and now knee deep in "conservation" of such.

The real truth is you gotta be a pretty disturbed person to not only insist but base your life around the notion you're seeing/feeling/hearing/experiencing an unknown species of hairy beast that's genuinely not there and you know that it's not there. Maybe even more so if you're able to convince other individuals to share in the same delusion.
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Old 17th April 2017, 07:02 PM   #3163
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It is very simple to kill a primate that is throwing rocks at a cabin at night. You could do it on your first try.

This isn't done because the guys with guns at the cabin know that the thrower is human. They know it's a pretend thing and they are not naive or credulous. There will never be a kill shot because they know it's a person and not a Bigfoot.

They are complicit in hoaxing and are therefore hoaxers themselves.
We know that Brown has said they found a indention on the ground outlining a person in a prone sniper position. This was found on top of the hill overlooking the cabin. He also said team members were scouting that very area later at dusk and his flashlight picked up two large, perfectly round eyes reflecting red in the brush, and they just oddly fell away downward. Both these events virtually cry out for a human/hoaxer interpretation: a spy once in a prone position keeping a lookout over the cabin; later a spy dropping his binoculars or night glasses after having a flashlight aimed in his direction. Of course, NAWAC in their zeal refuse to even consider these events human related; they dismiss them as ape manifestations.

NAWAC was brought to this very spot, a steep, tall hillside overlooking the cabin for the very reason that it would be impossible to catch a hoaxer in the act. At night, NAWAC members wouldn't be careless enough to just blast away up into the hill, to be on the safe side. We can assume the hoaxers are not flying blind in the night. The above examples suggest they are armed with night vision glasses.

WP, the interpretation you and I have as to what is going on here reflects our basic disagreement: you virtually absent the role of belief, an irrational and religious like belief, in your explanation while I see belief's role as paramount to understanding the phenomena at Area X, as elsewhere in Bigfootville.
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Old 18th April 2017, 04:40 AM   #3164
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
We know that Brown has said they found a indention on the ground outlining a person in a prone sniper position. This was found on top of the hill overlooking the cabin. He also said team members were scouting that very area later at dusk and his flashlight picked up two large, perfectly round eyes reflecting red in the brush, and they just oddly fell away downward. Both these events virtually cry out for a human/hoaxer interpretation: a spy once in a prone position keeping a lookout over the cabin; later a spy dropping his binoculars or night glasses after having a flashlight aimed in his direction. Of course, NAWAC in their zeal refuse to even consider these events human related; they dismiss them as ape manifestations.

NAWAC was brought to this very spot, a steep, tall hillside overlooking the cabin for the very reason that it would be impossible to catch a hoaxer in the act. At night, NAWAC members wouldn't be careless enough to just blast away up into the hill, to be on the safe side. We can assume the hoaxers are not flying blind in the night. The above examples suggest they are armed with night vision glasses.

WP, the interpretation you and I have as to what is going on here reflects our basic disagreement: you virtually absent the role of belief, an irrational and religious like belief, in your explanation while I see belief's role as paramount to understanding the phenomena at Area X, as elsewhere in Bigfootville.
1st highlighted section: Nonsense (their description; not necessarily your retelling of it). This is precisely the kind of detail that indicates a wannabe tough guy making something up. Go lie down in whatever you consider to be a "prone sniper position." Right next to it lie down in whatever you consider be a prone non-sniper position. Then get up and compare them. Then get some people who weren't there and tell them to find the two areas in which you lay down and then tell you which is sniper and which is non-sniper.

2nd highlighted section: Not quite as nonsensical but still tending toward it. What most people will call dusk is civil nautical twilight at which point someone with a night vision device will likely not yet be using them, but let's be generous and assume they meant astronomical twilight when someone might actually be using night vision devices. First, they wouldn't be using them if they saw someone with a flashlight nearby. Second, the people with the flashlight would not see red when the flashlight shone on the night vision device; the intense white light would completely wash out any near infrared or far infrared light being emitted by the device. If they were to see red eyes at all it would be when no light was shone on them, and given that their own night vision was washed out by dint of using the flashlight, they wouldn't have seen that, either.

This is more hogwash by those who are either play-acting non-believers or believers who have no compunction fabricating or embellishing in order to convince others of their belief. But I will retract that last bit; I think it more likely that they are not trying to convince others of the reality of bigfoot but rather the reality of the believers' tough guy status.
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Old 18th April 2017, 05:33 AM   #3165
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Why would the Boss Of the Woods, need to lie down in the sniper position?

I would think a giant hairy primate, with massive teeth, muscles, and the ability to leap 30 feet in one motion, would be an IN YOUR FACE, intimidation type of creature, he wouldn't be pelting you with pebbles from a hillside, he'd be crashing full steam into the side of the cabin, smashing through the windows with freshly pulled tree stumps, and spray-pooping all over the porch. He wouldn't be laying down up on a hill, hoping you don't see him. This is silly.
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Old 18th April 2017, 06:28 AM   #3166
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Why would the Boss Of the Woods, need to lie down in the sniper position?

I would think a giant hairy primate, with massive teeth, muscles, and the ability to leap 30 feet in one motion, would be an IN YOUR FACE, intimidation type of creature, he wouldn't be pelting you with pebbles from a hillside, he'd be crashing full steam into the side of the cabin, smashing through the windows with freshly pulled tree stumps, and spray-pooping all over the porch. He wouldn't be laying down up on a hill, hoping you don't see him. This is silly.
Your description reminded me of John Gardner's Grendel, which one could whimsically imagine as the first bigfoot. (I recommend that everyone here read that book.)
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Old 18th April 2017, 09:10 AM   #3167
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
WP, the interpretation you and I have as to what is going on here reflects our basic disagreement: you virtually absent the role of belief, an irrational and religious like belief, in your explanation while I see belief's role as paramount to understanding the phenomena at Area X, as elsewhere in Bigfootville.
I pretty much don't believe anything that Brown or the other lamebrain Area Xers have to say. And I don't give a damn about what you think of my evaluation including your idea that it's irrational and religious. Jerry, I don't respect your brand of Bigfooter apologism and I never have.

These people are intentionally perpetuating the Bigfoot Myth Tradition by lying, hoaxing, and supporting hoaxing. They don't believe in Bigfoot as an actual animal. They believe in Bigfooting as an established custom, behavior, and lifestyle.
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Old 18th April 2017, 10:20 AM   #3168
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
These people are intentionally perpetuating the Bigfoot Myth Tradition by lying, hoaxing, and supporting hoaxing. They don't believe in Bigfoot as an actual animal. They believe in Bigfooting as an established custom, behavior, and lifestyle.
Well your footie book collection looks all up to date
And your 45-70 has a loading gate
That eats up lots of rounds at a buck per bullet rate
Though none of these things ever get you a decent date.

But who cares about dates when drinking beers and farting
Campfire sitting pretty, mopes out wood-ape larping
Stories out of nothing, nonsense in the making
In the tent and dreaming of stuff you will be faking

How do you afford your bigfoot lifestyle?
How do you afford your bigfoot lifestyle?
How do you afford your bigfoot lifestyle.


Well, first you start a 501c3 org, then get some gullible knuckledheads to contribute so you can buy cool guns and game cams and other **** you wouldn't be able to otherwise . . .
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Old 18th April 2017, 11:30 AM   #3169
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
45-70 ammo is expensive. How nice it must be to have your pretend playground fun financed by rubes, credules, gullible yucks, fellow enthusiasts.
Well, it's cheap enough when you don't fire any of it.

It's also cheap enough relative to the value of a dead bigfoot in your possession.
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Old 18th April 2017, 03:01 PM   #3170
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Instead of calling them enthusiasts or proponents, or even the much-debated term, BLAARger, maybe it's time to call them Bigfoot Performance Artists, or Bigfoot Entertainers.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:19 PM   #3171
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I pretty much don't believe anything that Brown or the other lamebrain Area Xers have to say. And I don't give a damn about what you think of my evaluation including your idea that it's irrational and religious. Jerry, I don't respect your brand of Bigfooter apologism and I never have.

These people are intentionally perpetuating the Bigfoot Myth Tradition by lying, hoaxing, and supporting hoaxing. They don't believe in Bigfoot as an actual animal. They believe in Bigfooting as an established custom, behavior, and lifestyle.
Your statement doesn't ring true to me, sorry.

Since I do not believe in Bigfoot, and have made skeptical arguments against it's existence here and elsewhere, including against Bigfooters at BFF and Cryptomundo, I fail to see my alleged "Bigfooter apologism" in action. What I do see is your preference for denunciation and vilification of Bigfooters via a simple formula which I honestly think does not explain the Bigfoot phenomenon to the best effect (as an admixture of hoax, sincere but ultimately irrational belief, mistaken advocacy, dishonest advocacy, etc.)

It's the blogger plague: Prefer biased indictment to unbiased understanding.
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Old 19th April 2017, 12:34 PM   #3172
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Your statement doesn't ring true to me, sorry.

Since I do not believe in Bigfoot, and have made skeptical arguments against it's existence here and elsewhere, including against Bigfooters at BFF and Cryptomundo, I fail to see my alleged "Bigfooter apologism" in action.
The apologism comes when you say that they aren't liars and are instead true believers. One is much more bad than the other.

Quote:
What I do see is your preference for denunciation and vilification of Bigfooters via a simple formula which I honestly think does not explain the Bigfoot phenomenon to the best effect (as an admixture of hoax, sincere but ultimately irrational belief, mistaken advocacy, dishonest advocacy, etc.)

It's the blogger plague: Prefer biased indictment to unbiased understanding.
I absolutely have described Bigfooters and Bigfootery as a admixture. I'm the guy who says it's mostly hoax with some genuine misidentification thrown in.

I've also called you out many times for misrepresenting that position where you say something like "skeptics think Bigfooters do nothing but tell lies".

Here we are again Jerry, with you misrepresenting what skeptics are thinking and saying. You do it over and over and over. I don't understand it.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:14 PM   #3173
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
1st highlighted section: Nonsense (their description; not necessarily your retelling of it). This is precisely the kind of detail that indicates a wannabe tough guy making something up. Go lie down in whatever you consider to be a "prone sniper position." Right next to it lie down in whatever you consider be a prone non-sniper position. Then get up and compare them. Then get some people who weren't there and tell them to find the two areas in which you lay down and then tell you which is sniper and which is non-sniper.

2nd highlighted section: Not quite as nonsensical but still tending toward it. What most people will call dusk is civil nautical twilight at which point someone with a night vision device will likely not yet be using them, but let's be generous and assume they meant astronomical twilight when someone might actually be using night vision devices. First, they wouldn't be using them if they saw someone with a flashlight nearby. Second, the people with the flashlight would not see red when the flashlight shone on the night vision device; the intense white light would completely wash out any near infrared or far infrared light being emitted by the device. If they were to see red eyes at all it would be when no light was shone on them, and given that their own night vision was washed out by dint of using the flashlight, they wouldn't have seen that, either.

This is more hogwash by those who are either play-acting non-believers or believers who have no compunction fabricating or embellishing in order to convince others of their belief. But I will retract that last bit; I think it more likely that they are not trying to convince others of the reality of bigfoot but rather the reality of the believers' tough guy status.
I agree with your view concerning the paramilitary ("tough guy") posturing of NAWAC members. I chalk it up to an attitude of macho professionalism born of the fact some members have been in the military, as well as the fact these guys are well armed. Guns and testosterone sometimes go together.

While I agree that their comments may be overripe purple prose, I disagree that they are made up in their entirely out of thin air (if that is what you are arguing for). Brown claimed the figure in the "sniper position" was human sized and shape, they could see the spread legs, and it was in position to overlook the cabin area.

As to the round eye reflection, Brown and others were moving around in the brush as night fell and he used a flashlight to look further into the brush when he spied what he took to be two large round eyes reflecting the light. I do not remember if he turned the flashlight on at that moment, or had it on earlier. Anyway, it's conceivable (to me, anyway) that a hoaxer found himself surrounded and blocked in, unable to escape and was caught looking through his binoculars or night vision glasses to check out the position of others.

(Btw, Brown, as well as other members, didn't pursue this particular "wood ape" because the sound of brush being broken around them made them think ape reinforcement was on its way and they made a B-line back to the cabin).

The important thing about these two events, to my mind: Brown related them at BFF where the existence of Bigfoot is generally not doubted. Those two events were absent in the Monograph, where a more skeptical audience would receive it. Why?

While Brown attributed the ground indention and the large round "eyes" to a wood ape, as a believer might, he probably realized too that both events could be attributed to human agency as well. At BFF, someone posted a photo of the type of visual glassware that might cause the eye reflection Brown claimed to see. I think that I chimed in somewhere to point out that a human sized "sniper position" on the ground surely would be better explained by a human laying on the ground rather than an ape.

The idea I'm trying to get across is this: Why would NAWAC reveal such events that could/would ultimately be used to argue against their narrative? If they are true events, why mention them unless you are so misguided you can't see their importance in damaging your case. On the other hand, if they are not true, why in the world you make up such stuff. For instance, if you think it would be cool to lie about a "sniper position," why not make it really huge, not the size of an average human?

Brain Brown keeps saying we have only two alternatives in what to believe about Area X: either NAWAC members are lying, or the events they describe are real. Some people here at ISF agree with him. I don't.
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Old 19th April 2017, 01:45 PM   #3174
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Ten + years of bigfoot stories = one **** load of out-and-out made-up silliness. I haven't read very many bigfoot encounters that didn't contain some sort of fabrication.
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Old 19th April 2017, 02:45 PM   #3175
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The apologism comes when you say that they aren't liars and are instead true believers. One is much more bad than the other.


I absolutely have described Bigfooters and Bigfootery as a admixture. I'm the guy who says it's mostly hoax with some genuine misidentification thrown in.

I've also called you out many times for misrepresenting that position where you say something like "skeptics think Bigfooters do nothing but tell lies".

Here we are again Jerry, with you misrepresenting what skeptics are thinking and saying. You do it over and over and over. I don't understand it.
Parcher, let me say I have much more respect for you than you seem to have for me.

As to the idea I say "skeptics think Bigfooters do nothing but tell lies," let me try this analogy. Suppose you're working with a guy and during the day he complains about this or that. He doesn't like his manager, for instance, or he doesn't like his work detail that day. He complains to you at lunch he doesn't like the sandwich his wife made him. Later he complains he thinks afternoon breaks should be longer. Finally, at the end of the day, just as he complains about something else, you say "Hey, all've you done all day long is complain. I'm tired of it."

Well if he takes his cue from some skeptics here, he would reply to you, "You're a liar! You're just trolling me. I don't understand you! I didn't complain all day! I worked most of the day in silence. I used the rest room twice. I ate twinkies at morning break. I DID NOT COMPLAIN ALL DAY LONG! You are a F****** LIAR!"

I was genuinely surprised, and dismayed, when I had such a vitriolic reaction to my posts concerning GE (gaming explanation). It seemed self-evident to me that it has become the overarching explanation for Bigfootville by some here, and yes, it IS virtually the sole explanation with someone like the bush pilot, who once challenged me to name one true believer in Bigfoot. But my phrasing it as "all" (which I later changed to "virtually all") should be taken in the context of the above analogy (using a Texan's way of phrasing it). Even though I think the overall tone here is GE, I know some folks have offered explanations other than the "they're lying" trope.

To be frank, I do have problems with folks unable to distinguish between obvious hucksters like Rick Dyer and Justin Smeja, and the doctors, lawyers, former military members, teachers, biologists, other professional types, etc. that make up NAWAC. I other words, the explanation for the claims of the first group likely fails as the explanation for the claims of the second group.

Your statement with my emphasis: " I absolutely have described Bigfooters and Bigfootery as a admixture. I'm the guy who says it's mostly hoax with some genuine misidentification thrown in." That you sometimes allow for misidentification but mostly rely on the hoax hypothesis is what I would disagree with. (Btw, I do realize and agree that there is quite a lot of hoaxing going on in Bigfootville).

You and I also disagree on what constitutes "misidentification." It seems to me that both true believers and some Bigfoot skeptics take Bigfoot reports stringently literal. For instance, if we have a report of a giant bi-pedal ape seen for a couple of seconds passing between two trees, the Bigfooter will say "See, there is evidence of Bigfoot, the giant bi-pedal ape," while the skeptic will say, "See, the guy is lying because there are no such things as giant bi-pedal apes." That the reporter may have seen something totally unlike a giant bi-pedal ape doesn't seem to occur to either true believer or this brand of skeptic.

If I'm wrong, let me know. It seems that you take a literal approach to sighting reports. For example, you once argued that the idea that bears should not be generally considered culprits in Bigfoot sightings. You think most sightings are hoaxes, with a few sightings of just other people as the culprits. Am I correct?

I see a larger category of culprits. Take the Fouke Monster, Ford homestead siege, for instance. It is portrayed nowadays as a Bigfoot event. It may surprise those who believe in Bigfoot, but there is good reason to believe the whole event was caused by a nosey horse, not a monster ape. People who lived in the area told of a neighbor's unusual horse that would wonder around at night visiting other homes and peeking in the windows. Probably scared the bejabbers out of whoever experienced it. The horse was owned by a neighbor of the Ford house. The horse was found dead, riddled with bullets, sometime after the Fords and friends open fired on something moving in the brush.

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Old 19th April 2017, 03:13 PM   #3176
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What is the evidence that a horse was shot full of bullets?
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Old 19th April 2017, 03:24 PM   #3177
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I see a larger category of culprits. Take the Fouke Monster, Ford homestead siege, for instance. It is portrayed nowadays as a Bigfoot event.
Bigfoot entertainment.
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Old 19th April 2017, 04:20 PM   #3178
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
I agree with your view concerning the paramilitary ("tough guy") posturing of NAWAC members. I chalk it up to an attitude of macho professionalism born of the fact some members have been in the military, as well as the fact these guys are well armed. Guns and testosterone sometimes go together.

While I agree that their comments may be overripe purple prose, I disagree that they are made up in their entirely out of thin air (if that is what you are arguing for). Brown claimed the figure in the "sniper position" was human sized and shape, they could see the spread legs, and it was in position to overlook the cabin area.
And that is why I call it made up. Again, I ask you to conduct your own test by lying in a sniper position followed by a non-sniper position and see if you or someone else can tell them apart. First, unless one impresses oneself in wet sand or damp mud it is highly unlikely that a distinct form would be left, particularly one that shows separate legs and then whatever else the front end of the body is doing to show "sniper position." Even trying to do so intentionally is difficult not least because one has to both get down into that position and then back up, each of which actions helps obscure the markings left behind.

So, yes, I am arguing that separate from any larger belief or non-belief in Bigfoot, this story is made up.

Originally Posted by jerrywayne
As to the round eye reflection, Brown and others were moving around in the brush as night fell and he used a flashlight to look further into the brush when he spied what he took to be two large round eyes reflecting the light. I do not remember if he turned the flashlight on at that moment, or had it on earlier. Anyway, it's conceivable (to me, anyway) that a hoaxer found himself surrounded and blocked in, unable to escape and was caught looking through his binoculars or night vision glasses to check out the position of others.
Not just round eyes -- round and red eyes. It's the red part that was key to my discussion above. I didn't even get into the fact that surprising the figure in a standing position sort of obviates the claim about finding the outline of a sniper position in the same area because the standing person would have helped obscure any markings.

So I will say it again: the story is not simple embellishment of an actual event. It is made up.


Originally Posted by Jerrywayne
(Btw, Brown, as well as other members, didn't pursue this particular "wood ape" because the sound of brush being broken around them made them think ape reinforcement was on its way and they made a B-line back to the cabin).

The important thing about these two events, to my mind: Brown related them at BFF where the existence of Bigfoot is generally not doubted. Those two events were absent in the Monograph, where a more skeptical audience would receive it. Why?

While Brown attributed the ground indention and the large round "eyes" to a wood ape, as a believer might, he probably realized too that both events could be attributed to human agency as well. At BFF, someone posted a photo of the type of visual glassware that might cause the eye reflection Brown claimed to see. I think that I chimed in somewhere to point out that a human sized "sniper position" on the ground surely would be better explained by a human laying on the ground rather than an ape.

The idea I'm trying to get across is this: Why would NAWAC reveal such events that could/would ultimately be used to argue against their narrative? If they are true events, why mention them unless you are so misguided you can't see their importance in damaging your case. On the other hand, if they are not true, why in the world you make up such stuff. For instance, if you think it would be cool to lie about a "sniper position," why not make it really huge, not the size of an average human?

Brain Brown keeps saying we have only two alternatives in what to believe about Area X: either NAWAC members are lying, or the events they describe are real. Some people here at ISF agree with him. I don't.
The first part I highlighted answers the second part I highlighted.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:21 AM   #3179
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The BFF wasn't very receptive to the NAWAC.

I remember:
* The Tree breaking incident,
* Bigfoot laying down and being mistaken for a log by Bob Strain
* giant slingshot being fired up on the hill where the Rocks were coming from.
* The 10 round shotgun burst fired, near the couple parked in the impossible to get to area, by Daryl Colyer, and no one else saw the beast.
* The guy firing rounds from the the tipping lawn chair in the river bed, when he thought a Bigfoot was charging him through the bushes.

None of these were accepted by even long time Bigfooters.

I even received moral support from some of the mods and admins at BFF when pointing out the silliness of these claims.
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Old 20th April 2017, 05:23 AM   #3180
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We should start a Non-profit called NAWAQ

North American Wood Ape Quest.
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:22 AM   #3181
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Jerrywayne...your first mistake is you assume all the stories are true, that in itself is very telling of your perspective, but hey this isn't about you.
It doesn't matter if there are a few doofuses that have bought into the NAWACKY nonsense, they are just cannon fodder for the ultimate goal. This is no different than PGF, just a brief look into the background of the major players and all is revealed.
The goal is gold and glory....the model is BFRO/Not Finding Bigfoot, Brian Brown was at BFRO, left started BFF....then latched onto NAWACKY on the hope it would generate the kind of interest that Not Finding Bigfoot has.
There is no doubt the most fascinating part of this social construct is the "true believers" and the charlatans that lead the way, but the motivations of the two groups are at opposite ends of the spectrum. They sometimes overlap a pinch but very rarely.

Last edited by Cervelo; 20th April 2017 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 20th April 2017, 11:45 PM   #3182
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What is the evidence that a horse was shot full of bullets?
Yeah, you'd think pumping your neighbor's horse full of lead would create a stir.

Well, if they couldn't recognize hoofprints in the ground outside their windows, it's a cinch they couldn't tell the difference between a horse and anything else that might be moving in their vicinity in the woods...

It's also not a stretch to imagine footers blasting away at "something" in the woods that they can't identify, since we know they have done this a few times.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 21st April 2017, 04:15 AM   #3183
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yeah, you'd think pumping your neighbor's horse full of lead would create a stir.

Well, if they couldn't recognize hoofprints in the ground outside their windows, it's a cinch they couldn't tell the difference between a horse and anything else that might be moving in their vicinity in the woods...

It's also not a stretch to imagine footers blasting away at "something" in the woods that they can't identify, since we know they have done this a few times.
Or discern from ground markings that someone had lain in a "prone sniper position."
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Old 21st April 2017, 09:38 AM   #3184
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
To be frank, I do have problems with folks unable to distinguish between obvious hucksters like Rick Dyer and Justin Smeja, and the doctors, lawyers, former military members, teachers, biologists, other professional types, etc. that make up NAWAC. I other words, the explanation for the claims of the first group likely fails as the explanation for the claims of the second group.
What makes the highlighted group exempt from lying and/or hoaxing? Doctors, lawyers, military, teachers, biologists, and professionals all have been convicted of everything from child rape to multiple murders. What's a little in-group lie/practical joke? "Obvious hucksters" are obvious most often after they're exposed. You seem very nave about this.
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Old 22nd April 2017, 04:12 PM   #3185
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Our derision and criticism of NAWAC for not having any Bigfoot evidence despite their endless non-evidenced claims to the contrary is akin to prosecuting the murderer who says he was at the Dairy Queen but no way to prove it. Yet their criticism and derision of us is like being yelled at for using embossed toilet paper.
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Old 23rd April 2017, 04:39 PM   #3186
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Imaginary responsible bigfoot field research team:

1) "We're doing research to try to confirm the existence of bigfoot in an area where an unusually high number of reports emanate. We've had some experiences that are difficult for us to explain but nothing definitive yet. When and if we ever get that evidence, you'll hear about it!"

The NAWACkies:

2) "We're doing research to try to confirm the existence of bigfoot in an area where an unusually high number of reports emanate. We've had multiple bigfoots surrounding our cabin, habitually throwing rocks at us. Most of us have had eyewitness encounters. This is the real deal. Despite our inability to provide even a single interesting photograph after ___ years at this site, we're so sure the bigfoots are here that we've prepared this enormous document of fireside tale bloviation, we've asked for money, and we've wooed movie star Rob Lowe to our site for a new TV series. That's how sure we are!"
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:46 AM   #3187
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Or discern from ground markings that someone had lain in a "prone sniper position."
Bigfoot can certainly assume that position.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:49 PM   #3188
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
"...we're so sure the bigfoots are here that we've prepared this enormous document of fireside tale bloviation, we've asked for money, and we've wooed movie star Rob Lowe to our site for a new TV series. That's how sure we are!"
The most hilarious part being that's not fiction, you actually nailed it right on the head.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:07 PM   #3189
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Originally Posted by Cervelo View Post
Jerrywayne...your first mistake is you assume all the stories are true, that in itself is very telling of your perspective, but hey this isn't about you.
It doesn't matter if there are a few doofuses that have bought into the NAWACKY nonsense, they are just cannon fodder for the ultimate goal. This is no different than PGF, just a brief look into the background of the major players and all is revealed.
The goal is gold and glory....the model is BFRO/Not Finding Bigfoot, Brian Brown was at BFRO, left started BFF....then latched onto NAWACKY on the hope it would generate the kind of interest that Not Finding Bigfoot has.
There is no doubt the most fascinating part of this social construct is the "true believers" and the charlatans that lead the way, but the motivations of the two groups are at opposite ends of the spectrum. They sometimes overlap a pinch but very rarely.
Actually, I don't think all their stories are true. Quite the contrary.

My point is that many of their stories are ambiguous enough to suggest they believe them. If you are going to make up a story about two giant apes running up the side of the hill, you don't say "I saw two smallish fuzzy looking black dots moving up the hill. If other observers hadn't seen them too, I would have just thought -- I don't know what that was, but it was kinda strange." (paraphrasing Brown's comments about his "sighting"). But if you are 95% sure wood apes exist, and others in your group of likeminded believers say they saw apes (when in fact they probably saw nothing more than you did) then this confirmation bias circle jerk is compelling to you, the believer.

On the other hand, I would say that some of the sighting reports are fake. In my mind, they are phony reports made in order to join the group of "witnesses," and in order to be part of something big.

If their goal is "gold and glory," not had by actually finding Bigfoot but by overt hoaxing, I would grant you that explanation as a possibility. Not a certainty. I think there is a better explanation.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:17 PM   #3190
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
What makes the highlighted group exempt from lying and/or hoaxing? Doctors, lawyers, military, teachers, biologists, and professionals all have been convicted of everything from child rape to multiple murders. What's a little in-group lie/practical joke? "Obvious hucksters" are obvious most often after they're exposed. You seem very nave about this.
Yes, convicted. Not sure the NAWAC crew would care to be convicted of hoaxing on a large and perpetual scale ("a little in-group lie/practical joke"). That could very well lose some of them their careers.

I'm not nave about this. As I've pointed out once too many times, I was once a believer and I know how that end of the conversation works. I was a believer, not a liar or a deceiver.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:21 PM   #3191
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Yeah, you'd think pumping your neighbor's horse full of lead would create a stir.

Well, if they couldn't recognize hoofprints in the ground outside their windows, it's a cinch they couldn't tell the difference between a horse and anything else that might be moving in their vicinity in the woods...

It's also not a stretch to imagine footers blasting away at "something" in the woods that they can't identify, since we know they have done this a few times.
Hoofprints would be common in that area and probably overlooked as an explanation for a boogeyman visit.

There were puma tracks found under the house, another possible culprit that makes more sense than a giant ape of unknown type and origin.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:27 PM   #3192
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
The BFF wasn't very receptive to the NAWAC.

I remember:
* The Tree breaking incident,
* Bigfoot laying down and being mistaken for a log by Bob Strain
* giant slingshot being fired up on the hill where the Rocks were coming from.
* The 10 round shotgun burst fired, near the couple parked in the impossible to get to area, by Daryl Colyer, and no one else saw the beast.
* The guy firing rounds from the the tipping lawn chair in the river bed, when he thought a Bigfoot was charging him through the bushes.

None of these were accepted by even long time Bigfooters.

I even received moral support from some of the mods and admins at BFF when pointing out the silliness of these claims.
Yep, even Bigfoot enthusiasts have had a problem with Area X stories. To my mind, another reason to consider that the NAWAC teams aren't just sitting around making silly stuff up, especially if the silly stuff is too unbelievable for even rank and file Bigfooters. That's their audience.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:31 PM   #3193
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
There were puma tracks found under the house, another possible culprit that makes more sense than a giant ape of unknown type and origin.
Puma tracks. Fouke, Arkansas, early 1970s.

That's bullcrap, Jerry.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:36 PM   #3194
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
And that is why I call it made up. Again, I ask you to conduct your own test by lying in a sniper position followed by a non-sniper position and see if you or someone else can tell them apart. First, unless one impresses oneself in wet sand or damp mud it is highly unlikely that a distinct form would be left, particularly one that shows separate legs and then whatever else the front end of the body is doing to show "sniper position." Even trying to do so intentionally is difficult not least because one has to both get down into that position and then back up, each of which actions helps obscure the markings left behind.

So, yes, I am arguing that separate from any larger belief or non-belief in Bigfoot, this story is made up.

Not just round eyes -- round and red eyes. It's the red part that was key to my discussion above. I didn't even get into the fact that surprising the figure in a standing position sort of obviates the claim about finding the outline of a sniper position in the same area because the standing person would have helped obscure any markings.

So I will say it again: the story is not simple embellishment of an actual event. It is made up.


The first part I highlighted answers the second part I highlighted.
All I can say is that you are suggesting not only is NAWAC making up stories that seem to support the idea of wood apes, they are also making up stories that discredit the very idea they're trying to establish. I appreciate your thoughts, even if I must disagree.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:38 PM   #3195
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Puma tracks. Fouke, Arkansas, early 1970s.

That's bullcrap, Jerry.
The tracks were identified by the local constabulary. You can take it up with him if he's still around.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:42 PM   #3196
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Yes, convicted. Not sure the NAWAC crew would care to be convicted of hoaxing on a large and perpetual scale ("a little in-group lie/practical joke"). That could very well lose some of them their careers.
Who the hell is going to convict them of anything, and for what? Lose their careers? Nonsense. See Meldrum, as just one example. We've seen no penalty for peddling bigfoot bull ****

Quote:
I'm not nave about this. As I've pointed out once too many times, I was once a believer and I know how that end of the conversation works. I was a believer, not a liar or a deceiver.
No, you are extremely nave. Such naivete on the part of scientists was a primary motivating factor in the skeptical career of James Randi. The credulity that allowed your bigfoot belief formerly, now clouds your ability to see through the NAWAC horsecrap. They are selling nothing new; you should be able to recognize that by now.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:44 PM   #3197
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
Actually, I don't think all their stories are true. Quite the contrary.

My point is that many of their stories are ambiguous enough to suggest they believe them. If you are going to make up a story about two giant apes running up the side of the hill, you don't say "I saw two smallish fuzzy looking black dots moving up the hill. If other observers hadn't seen them too, I would have just thought -- I don't know what that was, but it was kinda strange." (paraphrasing Brown's comments about his "sighting"). But if you are 95% sure wood apes exist, and others in your group of likeminded believers say they saw apes (when in fact they probably saw nothing more than you did) then this confirmation bias circle jerk is compelling to you, the believer.
That story from Brown, about the black dots moving up the hill, is a textbook wild boar observation. To the extent that hogs are known to run directly uphill when spooked. They would be in this area.

Their recordings of the "rock rain" are quite obviously squirrels feeding in the trees above the cabin. You can even hear one chuffing at the end of the clip they played on the bigfoot show.

I do generally agree with your point about their actually believing some of their claims. They whip themselves up into thinking all kinds of mundane things are bigfoot related. Fact is, none of these guys spent enough time in the woods to be able to tell the difference. Case in point, on the NAWAC page, Brown describes himself as a "naturalist". Yet on an episode of the BFS, he states that he is from LA, and went into the woods basically for the first time in the early 2000s. And that's the group's leadership.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:45 PM   #3198
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What is the evidence that a horse was shot full of bullets?
This was related by a researcher who spent some time at Fouke. He was told this by Smokey Crabbtree, hardly a monster debunker. It was published in Fortean Times. I no longer have a copy, but if you would really like to read it, it might be online somewhere.

The nosy horse story is also related in Blackburn's book, also a source that is not into debunking Bigfoot, but who spent many years, on and off, interviewing people in the Fouke area.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:46 PM   #3199
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Originally Posted by jerrywayne View Post
The tracks were identified by the local constabulary. You can take it up with him if he's still around.
A cop? C'mon. A couple Milwaukee officers claimed an alley cat to be an African Lion not too long ago.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:48 PM   #3200
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
A cop? C'mon. A couple Milwaukee officers claimed an alley cat to be an African Lion not too long ago.
True. I gave the source of the statement. Take it, or leave it.
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